If accepted to both, NYU or Cornell?

[Iamajew]

Where would you go? These are very comparable in terms of reputation, and certainly in terms of cost. For me, it really boils down to more PBL versus a more lecture-style of learning, and i think that there are a few downsides to spending hours of class in a small group setting (strength of class based on strength of the professor leading the section, grading is very competitive among such a small group)...but i'm interested in hearing how others feel about this.

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[Psycho Doctor]

Where would you go? These are very comparable in terms of reputation, and certainly in terms of cost. For me, it really boils down to more PBL versus a more lecture-style of learning, and i think that there are a few downsides to spending hours of class in a small group setting (strength of class based on strength of the professor leading the section, grading is very competitive among such a small group)...but i'm interested in hearing how others feel about this.

i'd like to be in that position, then perhaps i'd be better able to evaluate it. As I wait for my Cornell letter, i'm curious to see others' opinions.

 

[ajt2003]

Where would you go? These are very comparable in terms of reputation, and certainly in terms of cost. For me, it really boils down to more PBL versus a more lecture-style of learning, and i think that there are a few downsides to spending hours of class in a small group setting (strength of class based on strength of the professor leading the section, grading is very competitive among such a small group)...but i'm interested in hearing how others feel about this.

Although I LOVE NYU, Cornell's rep (IMHO) is better. It would be hard to choose though - but if you like PBL, isn't that Cornell's forte? Oh! But P/F at NYU vs. "grades" at Cornell. Plus, if you're into ECs at all (arts, sports), NYU has more to offer.

I know a couple kids at Cornell - while they like it overall, the word "intense" has circulated quite a bit. All my friends at NYU seem like they're on cloud 9. I'm learning through this process that being happiest really is most paramount. Regardless, a pretty enviable choice to have to make!

What a rambly post on my part. I'm tired.

 

[doc05]

PBL vs. lecture is a total crock. in a few years you'll realize that it doesn't make a bit of difference which curriculum you've followed. you'll take the same boards, see the same types of patients in 3rd year.

what it boils down to is residency placement. both are great schools, NYU offers better clinincal training since Bellevue is public, whereas NYP is very private. But Cornell has a better name, and hence a better match list. Remember that you only begin to learn medicine once you've started residency, and you want the best shot at the program of your choice.

 

[pekq]

Cornell is H/P/F and a P from Cornell still looks better than a P from NYU. Of course, it is the nature of students accepted at Cornell to go for the H when the P would have sufficed. Cornell also do a quiz every week.

 

[An Yong]

Cornell is H/P/F and a P from Cornell still looks better than a P from NYU. Of course, it is the nature of students accepted at Cornell to go for the H when the P would have sufficed. Cornell also do a quiz every week.

The tour guides told us the quizzes are actually optional and are not really taken for grades.

 

[Dr. Chiquita]

PBL vs. lecture is a total crock. in a few years you'll realize that it doesn't make a bit of difference which curriculum you've followed. you'll take the same boards, see the same types of patients in 3rd year.

I heard the similar story from a student at Weill. He actually told me that PBL is such a waste of time and that no one in his class really appreciates it.

 

[Iamajew]

I just wanted to mention that NYU is REALLY building up. There are 2 new buildings going up by the end of this year...they seem to have a ton of money to throw around (and this may boost the school's reputation in the very near future). Does anyone know anything more about this?

 

[aar239]

Although I'm still waiting to hear back from Cornell in March I still think I would pick NYU or Cornell. I know that Cornell has a better reputation but when I went to both interviews I just felt more at home at NYU. I may be biased though because I go to NYU now for undergrad but i can see myself being really happy staying at NYU. I think in choosing a schools it's best to go where you will be happier and not just pick one because of reputation or a stupid ranking list especially with two great schools like Cornell and NYU.

 

[AnnieShiro]

Where would you go? These are very comparable in terms of reputation, and certainly in terms of cost. For me, it really boils down to more PBL versus a more lecture-style of learning, and i think that there are a few downsides to spending hours of class in a small group setting (strength of class based on strength of the professor leading the section, grading is very competitive among such a small group)...but i'm interested in hearing how others feel about this.

Look, I'm not normally one to denigrate other posts, but I think this is a grossly inaccurate comparison of the two schools. First, ranking aside, Weill-Cornell is far more prestigious; the name recognition and its association with Sloan-Kettering (one of the foremost cancer research/care centers in the country) and the Rockefeller (said to have the highest concentration of Nobel laureates of any academic institution) are enough to trump NYU. Secondly, from looking over the financial aid packages of each school Cornell seems to offer the better deal; its grants tend to be larger, and expectedly so. Although NYU has a fairly decent endowment (a little over $1 billion), Cornell has more than double that. Finally, if you've actually visited and interviewed at both schools, it's glaringly obvious the facilities at Cornell are newer and prettier. I'm sorry but I think this is just a really silly thread. I don't know anyone who liked NYU when they visited (I thought it was abysmal) and I’m thinking that most people who would make the comparison between these two schools were, in all probability, not offered an interview at Cornell. Yes, PBL vs. traditional curriculum is a completely legitimate concern and I’m sure there are a couple of students every year that might consider NYU over Cornell, but I think these are fairly rare exceptions. Also, I am disgusted with this thread not because I went to Cornell undergrad; I would have replied in similar fashion if this had been a ridiculous comparison between Columbia and NYU or Cornell and MSSM.

 

[ajt2003]

Look, I'm not normally one to denigrate other posts, but I think this is a grossly inaccurate comparison of the two schools. First, ranking aside, Weill-Cornell is far more prestigious; the name recognition and its association with Sloan-Kettering (one of the foremost cancer research/care centers in the country) and the Rockefeller (said to have the highest concentration of Nobel laureates of any academic institution) are enough to trump NYU. Secondly, from looking over the financial aid packages of each school Cornell seems to offer the better deal; its grants tend to be larger, and expectedly so. Although NYU has a fairly decent endowment (a little over $1 billion), Cornell has more than double that. Finally, if you've actually visited and interviewed at both schools, it's glaringly obvious the facilities at Cornell are newer and prettier. I'm sorry but I think this is just a really silly thread. I don't know anyone who liked NYU when they visited (I thought it was abysmal) and I’m thinking that most people who would make the comparison between these two schools were, in all probability, not offered an interview at Cornell. Yes, PBL vs. traditional curriculum is a completely legitimate concern and I’m sure there are a couple of students every year that might consider NYU over Cornell, but I think these are fairly rare exceptions. Also, I am disgusted with this thread not because I went to Cornell undergrad; I would have replied in similar fashion if this had been a ridiculous comparison between Columbia and NYU or Cornell and MSSM.

Oh, wow. But can you tell us how you really feel?

And just for the record, I think the OP's intent was genuine.

Jeez.

 

[AnnieShiro]

Oh, wow. But can you tell us how you really feel?

And just for the record, I think the OP's intent was genuine.

Jeez.

Sorry! I get one "I-know-this-is-inflammatory-but-I-call-bull****" post. And I'm using it now.

 

[YzIa]

Oh, wow. But can you tell us how you really feel?

And just for the record, I think the OP's intent was genuine.

Jeez.

I agree that the OP's intent was geniune, but as AnnieShiro said, there is no comparison between Cornell and NYU (or Cornell v MSSM or Columbia v either). NYU is a great med school, but its not an elite med school which Cornell is.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

The average debt of graduating students is very similar at both institutions; Cornell with 86,000 and NYU with 84,000. I do here, though, that Cornell has excellent financial aid.

 

[ajt2003]

Sorry! I get one "I-know-this-is-inflammatory-but-I-call-bull****" post. And I'm using it now.

Deal! Although, on SDN I think we're entitled to 1/month.

 

[Surgeonizer]

2 cents from a current medical student: PBL absolutely blows and pass/fail rocks. Don't underestimate P/F grading! It makes a huge difference in the class dynamic and the overall approach to learning preclinical material; instead of memorizing as many rat facts as possible to earn a high grade, students at P/F schools can actually focus on learning what's important--i.e., what will make them a better doctor in the long run. Moreover, PBL is the most inefficient way to learn preclinical science, even though it's an ideal pedagogic modality for clinical students (who already have a strong foundation in basic science).

If I were in the OP's shoes, I would attend NYU. It has an excellent reputation and, if you do well there, the sky's the limit in terms of career opportunities.

Good luck with your decision, and welcome to the profession! You've made a great choice.

 

[shaynab]

I don't know anyone who liked NYU when they visited (I thought it was abysmal) and I’m thinking that most people who would make the comparison between these two schools were, in all probability, not offered an interview at Cornell. Yes, PBL vs. traditional curriculum is a completely legitimate concern and I’m sure there are a couple of students every year that might consider NYU over Cornell, but I think these are fairly rare exceptions.

First, I must be one of those rare exceptions who is choosng NYU over Cornell because once I got into NYU, I withdrew from Cornell. I go to Cornell undergrad and I interviewed there one of the first possible weeks you could interview. I loved NYU when I visited...I found the students much much friendlier and much happier. I will admit that Cornell definitely has a better reputation and some facilites were nicer; however, you can't compare the student populations at both schools. I could not see myself spending the next four years at Cornell, whereas I think I'll make great friends at NYU. This is just my opinion and I'm sure other people would be better off at Cornell. The next few years are going to be very tough and personally, I'd rather be with people I enjoy. It's really a personal decision and a personal choice. You want to be happy, so make sure you choose a school that will make you the least stressed. If you do well at both schools, you'll get a great residency either way.

 

[Iamajew]

It's me, the OP. I didn't mean to offend you, AnnieShiro. I didn't realize that you take these threads so, um, personally. I was just at NYU today; the place is amazing (not abysmal at all - did you even go there?) Prestige between cornell and nyu is comparable...really depending on how you define it. The two facilities serve very different population groups and have very different types of relationships with their respective hospitals. Cornell serves a the private sector. NYU serves both. NYU is expanding like crazy; there was construction everywhere I went...this is going to add a ton of $ to the school in the long run and will certainly draw more NIH funding their way.

Also, if you know the city at all, you'll know that Kip's Bay/Murray Hill is great. The Upper East Side has its perks, but when you're poor in med school, this area is very very overrated and pretty unaffordable (and, if planning on living off campus, almost completely undoable). I guess i'll have to wait and see about financial aid, but NYU seemed like a comfortable, friendly, and professional place to learn medicine. The faciliites were really nice too....i was wondering if AnnieShiro evaluated facilities based on the number of flat screen tv's she saw during her interview? Seriously: facilities are comparable at these schools - period end.

Surgeonizer, i totally agree. P/F and P/F/H make a huge difference in the quality of life for the first two years. I think it's going to be awesome to go to class knowing that i just have to pass to continue and that the fate of residency doesn't rest with every test i take. What a relief! Just a rumor i heard: does anyone happen to know if you are ranked at nyu even though it's p/f (if they record your grade and, although you receive a P on your transcript, you are ranked based on how well you performed in nyu's private records?) I know it sounds ridiculous, but i heard that this was the case from someone who, of course, doesn't go there.

 

[Iamajew]

Wait a minute, AnnieShiro are you on CRACK? I just read your post again and you write that you would say the same thing with regards to nyu vs. columbia or mssm vs. cornell etc. Are you serious? You think that Cornell and Columbia are so above NYU and MSSM that there is NO COMPARISON? Why am i even writing this...that's just ridiculous!

 

[aar239]

NYU does do ranking...but it's only so that they can determine who will be nominated for AOA.
No one knows what their ranking is so students there say that it's not talked about at all.

 

[Iamajew]

cool - thanks. i'll see you in the fall!

 

[BigRedPingpong]

I just wanted to mention that NYU is REALLY building up. There are 2 new buildings going up by the end of this year...they seem to have a ton of money to throw around (and this may boost the school's reputation in the very near future). Does anyone know anything more about this?

The cancer center was just recently finished on 34th street and features the most advanced equipment currently in New York state. yes, more than MSK. Our research tower will be finished by the this year, and has an NIH back-up of over a 100 million dollars annually, which will more than double our current NIH funding--therefore will surely boost the US news ranking for NYU considering the huge weight put on NIH funding by US news. The bellevue clinic is also set to open this year, with new clinical research also being funded by the NIH. 3 new buildings opening all within the year.

 

[Iamajew]

That's crazy - yeah, there was construction everywhere i went today. Just a question, is the building that's next to bellevue (it looks like a hospital within another building) the bellevue clinical extension you're talking about? That place was insane - kind of a grand central station feel for a hospital.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

That's crazy - yeah, there was construction everywhere i went today. Just a question, is the building that's next to bellevue (it looks like a hospital within another building) the bellevue clinical extension you're talking about? That place was insane - kind of a grand central station feel for a hospital.

Bellevue is often quite confusing to put a finger on. First off, most maps give you old bellevue not new bellevue. Old bellevue is the historic-looking building made of brick right next to rubin hall (the first year dorms). "New Bellevue" or simply bellevue is the 25-story hospital next to the FDR. It's where you go if you get shot, limb-amputation, need a cardiac cath lab at 2:30 in the morning, delivering triplets by c-section, all in the same building. Only one of two designated level 1 trauma hospitals in Manhattan proper. And the largest municipal hospital in manhattan as well. Tisch hospital is adjacent to the school on 34th along with the Rusk institute. The Skirball residential tower is on the penthouse floors directly above the lobby for NYUMC. The cancer center is on 34th between 3rd and lex. The new extension to bellevue is that glass looking building right on first ave-- a hop, skip and a jump away from rubin hall, next to old bellevue, in front of new bellevue and towering over first ave.

NYU acceptancees,
I like NYU so far. I love the city and I can't imagine being anywhere else. Have a little faith in us. NYU has been making doctors for over 150 years. It has an extremely strong reputation around the nation. Whether you choose Weill or NYU, I'm sure you will be fine. Most of all, I'm sure you will have a good time because nothing, I mean nothing, beats learning medicine in the most famous, diverse, action-packed city in the world.

 

[AnnieShiro]

Wait a minute, AnnieShiro are you on CRACK? I just read your post again and you write that you would say the same thing with regards to nyu vs. columbia or mssm vs. cornell etc. Are you serious? You think that Cornell and Columbia are so above NYU and MSSM that there is NO COMPARISON? Why am i even writing this...that's just ridiculous!

I apologize. I recant. It is completely reasonable to conclude that NYU is comparable to Cornell. I would further extend this idea and proffer that NYU is also on the same level as Yale. Heck, and Johns Hopkins. And Harvard. I don't know what I was thinking; you're right, it must have been the crack. And as you suggested, I probably didn't even visit NYU before making a snap judgement. It was the crack.

 

[AnnieShiro]

That's crazy - yeah, there was construction everywhere i went today. Just a question, is the building that's next to bellevue (it looks like a hospital within another building) the bellevue clinical extension you're talking about? That place was insane - kind of a grand central station feel for a hospital.

I just wanted to mention that NYU is REALLY building up. There are 2 new buildings going up by the end of this year...they seem to have a ton of money to throw around (and this may boost the school's reputation in the very near future). Does anyone know anything more about this?

NYU is expanding like crazy; there was construction everywhere I went...this is going to add a ton of $ to the school in the long run and will certainly draw more NIH funding their way.

Great fiscal acumen. You should be named next Provost to NYU per your apparently indefatigable infatuation with endowment and construction. Maybe you should consider Yale, it has some $14 billion to throw around and is forever under construction. Hopkins was expanding its facilities when I visited as well. I heard a lot of jackhammers around the Cornell buildings too. Now that I think of it, Columbia was doing work as well. I forgot, most Universities are in continual expansion.

*sorry, last mean post. promise. i need to stop getting sucked into this studentdoctor.net world.

 

[Crake]

Both are pretty great, but I'd have to go with Cornell. NYU is pretty great too though. God, I wish I was in your position.

 

[scootad.]

Let me say that I am now a 4th year student at NYU. I have to say that if I had to make this decision 4 years ago, I would have picked Cornell. But now, I am not so sure.

I hate the idea of PBL and while it is true it is only the first two years of med school, I think I would have been pretty miserable learning that way. NYU is pretty traditional (lectures - with transcript service so you dont even have to attend class) and although there are small group sessions they are not extremely frequent and they merely complement the rest of the curriculum. The P/F system is very nice and while they do keep your scores in order to rank you eventually, it is a secret ranking that is really only used for AOA purposes and we never know or hear anything about it. Also Im not sure how much I would have learned with the PBL system and if I would have done as well on USMLE Step 1 in such a curriculum as I did with NYU's traditional curriculum. I wonder if nyu students outperform cornell on step 1 (which is the most important residency admissions factor).

I would take a close look at the match lists and compare. NYU has a pretty sick match list which is shockingly every bit as good as Cornell's. You wouldnt expect this given Cornell's better name, but I was just glancing at Cornell's match list and was very underwhelmed. (you need to look both at competitive specialties as well as programs). NYU was actually a top 15 program as recently as the early 1990s, then slipped so maybe part of the reason for the strong match lists is the residua from this traditionally great reputation. It will be interesting to see now that its slipped a bit rankings wise where it will go in the future, and how it will be perceived.

Overall, I am very happy here. But Cornell is also a great school obviously.
Good luck! Med school is hard

this is a tough choice, now if it were nyu v. columbia, that would be very easy (columbia).

 

[scootad.]

Also, I dont get this obsession over facilities. I wouldnt make my decision b/c one school is "prettier" than the other. Got news for you, life as a med student ain't glamorous. You spend 90% of your time with your face plastered to a book.

I would make my decision based on 1) matchlist 2) reputation 3) curriculum 4) location 5) general fit

 

[Iamajew]

No worries, AnnieShiro...and yeah, i'm pretty interested in contruction. I went to yale for undergrad...they have an insane endowment and the construction NEVER stops (pretty annoying after awhile). Thanks for the input everyone - especially from current nyu students.

 

[Iamajew]

Let me say that I am now a 4th year student at NYU. I have to say that if I had to make this decision 4 years ago, I would have picked Cornell. But now, I am not so sure.

I hate the idea of PBL and while it is true it is only the first two years of med school, I think I would have been pretty miserable learning that way. NYU is pretty traditional (lectures - with transcript service so you dont even have to attend class) and although there are small group sessions they are not extremely frequent and they merely complement the rest of the curriculum. The P/F system is very nice and while they do keep your scores in order to rank you eventually, it is a secret ranking that is really only used for AOA purposes and we never know or hear anything about it. Also Im not sure how much I would have learned with the PBL system and if I would have done as well on USMLE Step 1 in such a curriculum as I did with NYU's traditional curriculum.

I would take a close look at the match lists and compare. NYU has a pretty sick match list which is shockingly every bit as good as Cornell's. You wouldnt expect this given Cornell's better name, but I was just glancing at Cornell's match list and was very underwhelmed. (you need to look both at competitive specialties as well as programs). NYU was actually a top 15 program as recently as the early 1990s, then slipped so maybe part of the reason for the strong match lists is the residua from this traditionally great reputation. It will be interesting to see now that its slipped a bit rankings wise where it will go in the future, and how it will be perceived.

Overall, I am very happy here. But Cornell is also a great school obviously.
Good luck! Med school is hard

Just a quick question; how are procedures/scut/physical/history-taking skills taught at nyu? Are these taught in small groups? Did you feel like you were adequately trained in all of these procedural aspects by the time you reached the wards?

 

[scootad.]

History & physical skills are taught in small groups in physical diagnosis course during 2nd year. They teach you how to draw blood and put in IVs during 3rd year orientation (2 weeks before the start of 3rd year) on mannequins. But usually the ER club sponsors events during the year to learn these skills (as well as suturing) if you want extra learning. Also you will become an expert phlebotomist by the end of your 3rd year at NYU b/c ancillary services suck. Procedures (e.g. intubation, chest tubes, thoracotomies, etc.) you dont learn until you are on the wards itself and that is very resident dependent. I wouldnt worry about that b/c in the very limited experience you get in the clinical years you likely wont become proficient in many procedures. Thats what residency is for. Although if you really want you could take anesth, critical care electives.