If I were to re-apply, what to make my app. more than marginally better?

[biganthony233]

Title says it all, obviously cycle is not going too well, but all hope isn't lost yet.

Will speak to adviser later this month, but I'm having serious doubts about whether to re-apply or not. I really want to but I don't know if I have the time, money, and morale left in me, plus I don't really see where I could make a leap forward in improving my application- is there a place I can improve?

Basics of app:
3.5cgpa/3.6sgpa
520 MCAT
ORM (asian dude, NY res.)
complete mid/late august

EC's:
900-some hrs as volunteer EMT, 150 some as hospital volunteer years ago, Shadowing some 50hrs summer before freshman year.

Tons of research (basic science, not clinical) more hours than can count- 4-5000 range, with 1 pub as mid author (recently, sent as update to schools)

SAT tutoring and tutoring at college.

Have a few more wrinkles that I will withhold to preserve anonymity but they arent things that can be improved on.

I know I have one red-flag and its my 2 IA's (boozing 6, 4.5 years ago) but the feedback from my adviser says its given the time cushion since then, and its relatively mild on the scale of what IAs can be, we cant say that will be a app killer. Maybe some more non-clinical volunteering? but I cant see that making it way better.

My school list was on a previous post I had, and it's a pretty good mix of low-mid and sprinkle of high tiers to take a gamble at.

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[biganthony233]

1) Depending on what your EMT volunteering has consisted of, you could use some more and fresher clinical volunteering/observation/shadowing in hospital or clinic setting.
2) You have minimal community service/non clinical volunteering
3) The ratio of the 2 above to research shows imbalance skewing in opposite direction of what adcoms like
4) Without knowing your grade trends, its hard to say academically what you may need
5) without knowing your school list, its hard to suggest adjustments
6) without seeing your overall application, its hard to suggest anything

You need to be reviewed completely and I would suggest that you will need to skip a cycle.

I am guessing you are are SUNY/SB guy?

So basically you're kind of getting at what I was fearing in that there is no really no obvious aspect my application is "lacking" so to speak in terms of enough improvement between now and opening of the next cycle to give myself a reboot.

In response to 1, what do you mean more/fresher observation? I'm responding to calls, teching them writing up PCR's etc.
2. Yeah I knew that I was lacking a bit in that, but my adviser last year said she personally feels its ok, not ideal, but ok- even if I got some between now and next cycle, I cant see just lacking some non-clinical hours is gonna break it.
3. Yeah the ratio is quite imbalanced because my gap years job has been as a research assistant, so the hours got real high
4. No trend really, pretty flat maybe up and down. Ended pretty high (last year) but overall not much of a up or down trend. Not sure if it's even reflected in amcas, I had to enter my grades weirdly because of my degree program
5. Albany Medical College
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
Columbia University College of P & S
Drexel University College of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth (R)
George Washington University Sch of Med & Hlth Sci (R)
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine at Hofstra University (R)
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Jacobs School of Medicine and Biomedical Sciences at the University at Buffalo
Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medici (R)
Mayo Clinic School of Medicine (R)
New York Medical College (R)
Quinnipiac University SOM
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Sciences
SUNY Upstate Medical University (II)
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
State University of New York Downstate Medical Cen
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
Tufts University School of Medicine
Tulane University School of Medicine (R)
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine
Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
Weill Cornell Medicine (R)
Yale School of Medicine
Warren Alpert Medical School of Brown University
Keck Sch. of Med. University of Southern California (R)

What do you mean SUNY/SB? Yeah i did apply to all the SUNY's, waiting on a decision from upstate and no more interview to come. But no did not go to SUNY's for ugrad.

 

[Catalystik]

Title says it all, obviously cycle is not going too well, but all hope isn't lost yet.

Will speak to adviser later this month, but I'm having serious doubts about whether to re-apply or not. I really want to but I don't know if I have the time, money, and morale left in me, plus I don't really see where I could make a leap forward in improving my application- is there a place I can improve?

Basics of app:
3.5cgpa/3.6sgpa
520 MCAT
ORM (asian dude, NY res.)
complete mid/late august

EC's:
900-some hrs as volunteer EMT, 150 some as hospital volunteer years ago, Shadowing some 50hrs summer before freshman year.

Tons of research (basic science, not clinical) more hours than can count- 4-5000 range, with 1 pub as mid author (recently, sent as update to schools)

SAT tutoring and tutoring at college.

Have a few more wrinkles that I will withhold to preserve anonymity but they arent things that can be improved on.

I know I have one red-flag and its my 2 IA's (boozing 6, 4.5 years ago) but the feedback from my adviser says its given the time cushion since then, and its relatively mild on the scale of what IAs can be, we cant say that will be a app killer. Maybe some more non-clinical volunteering? but I cant see that making it way better.

My school list was on a previous post I had, and it's a pretty good mix of low-mid and sprinkle of high tiers to take a gamble at.

1) What non medical community service did you list?

2) No shadowing since you were a teen? Did you include a primary care doctor? There's room for improvement.

3) Any peer leadership?

4) Is your cGPA higher since you applied?

 

[biganthony233]

1) What non medical community service did you list?

2) No shadowing since you were a teen? Did you include a primary care doctor? There's room for improvement.

3) Any peer leadership?

4) Is your cGPA higher since you applied?

1. None, as I wrote above, Yeah I knew that I was lacking a bit in that, but my adviser last year said she personally feels its ok, not ideal, but ok- even if I got some between now and next cycle, I cant see just lacking some non-clinical hours is gonna break it.

2. Sure I agree there is room for improvement, but how much? Shadowing in itself is very passive compared to being an EMT, and sure I could get some more horus but my concern is does a 20-30 more shadowing hours recently help my application substantially? Because whats the point of sinking time, money, and effort into a application cycle that is only marginally better, thats my concerns.

3. I was voted captain of a club (not varsity) athletic team in college

4. No, I am already on my 2nd gap year, and a post-bac isnt in the cards. I dont have the resources for that.

 

[Catalystik]

1. I cant see just lacking some non-clinical hours is gonna break it.

2. does a 20-30 more shadowing hours recently help my application substantially?

1) From my point of view, an applicant's job is to develop an application with the broadest possible appeal. A lack of non medical volunteerism removes a large number of med schools from finding you appealing. So I'd say this is a major omission, that is redeemable (in a major leap-forward way), but not in a few month's time.

2) Another 10-30 hours of dedicated shadowing is a relatively low-commitment improvement that would freshen your application. I think it would be worthwhile.

It's clear you are weary of all the hoop-jumping and not in a place mentally right now to dive into improvements. I hope the rest of the current cycle goes better for you, but if not, you would not be ready to reapply with significant improvements by the start of the 2018-2019 cycle. A year or two off may change your perspective, improve your financial outlook, or give you other satisfying career prospects. Good luck.

 

[pewpew95]

If advisors on here are telling you that you're lacking in shadowing and non medical community service, then I would just listen to them. Heck, these are the easiest two ways to improve your app...

 

[pewpew95]

Are you willing to have people on here read your PS/some secondaries (privately)? Maybe we can help with that too, regardless of whether you decide to reapply this year or next year

I know applying is really soul-sucking and I completely understand your lack of morale but you need to start being proactive of how you can improve your app for next time, even if it's just shadowing a primary care doctor or volunteering with low SES students once a week

Did you research your school list to make sure the schools you chose like high MCAT more than high GPA?

 

[calivianya]

1. None, as I wrote above, Yeah I knew that I was lacking a bit in that, but my adviser last year said she personally feels its ok, not ideal, but ok- even if I got some between now and next cycle, I cant see just lacking some non-clinical hours is gonna break it.

Your adviser is wrong. Just straight up wrong.

I landed an II at one of my state schools this year - thought of this one as a safety. I also applied with no community service listed on my app. I forgot about the little I did, plus didn't think it would matter in light of my MCAT score and several thousand hours of healthcare experience. They absolutely grilled me on my lack of community service, as well as the lack of primary care shadowing. I felt like they were talking down to me the whole interview. My MCAT is 9 points above their median matriculant MCAT (GPA is higher as well) and I'm still expecting a rejection any day now.

I have since picked up some community service and sent them an update letter about it, although I know it's probably too late at this point for it to matter.

What I learned is that some schools care a whole lot more about you being altruistic and wanting to help the underserved than they care about your grades/MCAT (assuming they're at least acceptable). You don't have a snowball's chance in hell at those schools without community service and RECENT primary care shadowing.

 

[Lucky Day]

I think you’ve gotten some really solid advice here from people who know what they’re saying. As a 2 time reapplicant who was always assured of my qualifications by my advisor, I keenly feel your pain. But if there was one thing I wish I would have done, it would have been to put away any sign of complacency/hubris and get to work on any suggestion you can. You’ll make it, OP, just put in a little more work and start today.

 

[biganthony233]

Your adviser is wrong. Just straight up wrong.

I landed an II at one of my state schools this year - thought of this one as a safety. I also applied with no community service listed on my app. I forgot about the little I did, plus didn't think it would matter in light of my MCAT score and several thousand hours of healthcare experience. They absolutely grilled me on my lack of community service, as well as the lack of primary care shadowing. I felt like they were talking down to me the whole interview. My MCAT is 9 points above their median matriculant MCAT (GPA is higher as well) and I'm still expecting a rejection any day now.

I have since picked up some community service and sent them an update letter about it, although I know it's probably too late at this point for it to matter.

What I learned is that some schools care a whole lot more about you being altruistic and wanting to help the underserved than they care about your grades/MCAT (assuming they're at least acceptable). You don't have a snowball's chance in hell at those schools without community service and RECENT primary care shadowing.

Does my 900+ hours of VOLUNTEER EMT work not count at all as community service? Because I give up 2 entire nights EVERY week to cover overnight shifts of 9 hours.

 

[ciestar]

My nonclinical service to the underserved came up at every single one of my interviews. You need it.

 

[Goro]

Does my 900+ hours of VOLUNTEER EMT work not count at all as community service? Because I give up 2 entire nights EVERY week to cover overnight shifts of 9 hours.

That's clinical volunteering, and frankly, I consider EMT to be glorified bus drivers.


1. I cant see just lacking some non-clinical hours is gonna break it.
OK, here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

Like it or not, Medicine is a service profession.

 

[deleted887473]

To add to what’s been said above I feel like you could be caught in this no-man’s land where your research achievements might impress top tier research powerhouses but your GPA is too low for them. But what do I know. You could still be accepted this cycle. Good luck.

 

[de Ribas]

That's clinical volunteering, and frankly, I consider EMT to be glorified bus drivers

what about EMTs working directly in emergency room with patients?

When I first started to volunteer in ER years ago, I worked alongside an EMT-B who directly contacted with patients. It almost made me get EMT as well.

 

[Goro]

what about EMTs working directly in emergency room with patients?

When I first started to volunteer in ER years ago, I worked alongside an EMT-B who directly contacted with patients. It almost made me get EMT as well.

That's fine.

 

[21Rush12]

Why the EMT hating? Where does this impression come from?

I have met some profound idiot EMTs, but someone with EMT experience who also has the academic chops to put together a competitive med school application has likely had a very different experience.

 

[Med Ed]

Will speak to adviser later this month, but I'm having serious doubts about whether to re-apply or not. I really want to but I don't know if I have the time, money, and morale left in me, plus I don't really see where I could make a leap forward in improving my application- is there a place I can improve?

EMT is really passé these days. Now it's all about scribing.

You could buff up some non-clinical volunteering, like Habitat for Humanity. It's also possible that your personal statement is a horrifying mess. PM it to me and I'll tell you!

 

[Lucky Day]

Why the EMT hating? Where does this impression come from?

I have met some profound idiot EMTs, but someone with EMT experience who also has the academic chops to put together a competitive med school application has likely had a very different experience.

I’ve met some medics who are real studs as well, but the point @Goro is making is not EMT hating (although the wording is kind of harsh). The idea of medical experiences is to be able to grasp a larger worldview of medicine. When you’re on an ambulance, the whole theory is stabilize and get to the hospital. It’s a fairly fleeting experience and it’s possible that an EMT can have no real perspective on the minute-by-minute job duties of a physician and the drawn out hierarchy of a complex medical team (even ER docs practice medicine in a different way than other specialties.)

The meta view one should be taking from a healthcare experience is whether the experience gives one a perspective on the minutiae of a physicians duties. If you’re in the field all the time, obviously that’s not an enlightening angle in that regard, even though the job is a very admirable one.

 

[Lucky Day]

It's also possible that your personal statement is a horrifying mess. PM it to me and I'll tell you!

OP, please take this offer.

 

[jazzmetal]

To add to what’s been said above I feel like you could be caught in this no-man’s land where your research achievements might impress top tier research powerhouses but your GPA is too low for them. But what do I know. You could still be accepted this cycle. Good luck.

I was thinking the same thing: GPAs not high enough for research schools, but not enough service ECs for non-research schools. Also the IAs were both for the same offense, which makes them worse than two separate IAs, imho, even though some time has passed.
That said, OP - you are still in the running at 2/3 of the schools you applied to and you've gotten one II, so I wouldn't count yourself out yet. Just take all of the advice here into account and think about the way you describe your experiences as much as what they were, in case you have to try again.

 

[HomeSkool]

OP, please take this offer.

Dude, I'd send my PS to @Med Ed if he offered to read it, and I didn't even apply this cycle!

 

[DameJulie]

3) The ratio of the 2 above to research shows imbalance skewing in opposite direction of what adcoms like

If we worked for research lab during gap year, which would results in a skew in research hours comparing to volunteer hours. Would this case look unfavorable?

 

[boogiecousins94]

You can still volunteer while working in research full time, I volunteer with 3 places and a full time research job- you just have to "want to" do it not do it because you "have to."