If I withdrew from Ross, would I be able to reapply as a first semester student at SABA?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Y'all keep getting salty as I study my ass off, work hard and compete for your residency spot.

Caribbean medical students were never in competition for my residency spot.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 14 users
Caribbean medical students were never in competition for my residency spot.
Caribbean medical students were never in competition for my residency spot.
Not to help you gloat about whatever residency youre in but depending on the competitiveness of your residency 90% of all medical students might not be competitive for it.
 
Youre forgetting that US medical school give their students summers off but some caribbean med schools dont have summer breaks. So actually US medical students are given much more time to study for the step.
Not true. AMGs only have the summer between MS1 and MS2 off (one summer, not "summers"), which is typically a year away from Step 1, not to mention most of Step 1 relevant material is covered in MS2, so you really can't study for Step 1 in the summer between MS1 and MS2.

Moreover, what many (most?) mainland students do in that one summer is research, which gives them further advantage.

Most importantly, as was mentioned above, it's the quality of clinical training that distinguishes between MD, DO and Carribbean students. Residency programs typically know which schools provide good clinical training, and Carribbean schools simply don't.

I really hate to kick you when you're down, but being in denial about your competitiveness is not helping you either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Not true. AMGs only have the summer between MS1 and MS2 off (one summer, not "summers"), which is typically a year away from Step 1, not to mention most of Step 1 relevant material is covered in MS2, so you really can't study for Step 1 in the summer between MS1 and MS2.

Moreover, what many (most?) mainland students do in that one summer is research, which gives them further advantage.

Most importantly, as was mentioned above, it's the quality of clinical training that distinguishes between MD, DO and Carribbean students. Residency programs typically know which schools provide good clinical training, and Carribbean schools simply don't.

I really hate to kick you when you're down, but being in denial about your competitiveness is not helping you either.
I cant speak for most IMGs but the quality of clinical rotations at Ross has greatly improved in the past decade.
And Im not in denial. Its a tough spot for anyone to be in and I wouldnt recommend it but that opportunity its better than working as a lab tech for $28K with a master's degree in biology and no chance for any upward mobility or personal respect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I cant speak for most IMGs but the quality of clinical rotations at Ross has greatly improved in the past decade.
And Im not in denial. Its a tough spot for anyone to be in and I wouldnt recommend it but that opportunity its better than working as a lab tech for $28K with a master's degree in biology and no chance for any upward mobility or personal respect.

What are you basing the improving clinical rotations on? Maybe it's true, I dont know, just wondering where you are getting that from
 
What are you basing the improving clinical rotations on? Maybe it's true, I dont know, just wondering where you are getting that from
Im basing this on former students who I have met. They are recent graduates and have been able to see improvements in the clinical rotation that have evolved over the years.
 
I dont understand why you would give preference to the person who went to a US medical school if they had a lower score. I can see giving preference to US citizens though. That makes sense

Hmm a person who has a good track record which got them into a legitimate school or someone who did well on one test.
 
Im basing this on former students who I have met. They are recent graduates and have been able to see improvements in the clinical rotation that have evolved over the years.

Improvements in terms of what is my entire question. "It's better" is pretty nebulous.
 
Improvements in terms of what is my entire question. "It's better" is pretty nebulous.
I think its something along the lines of better hospitals and students being able to complete all of their clinical rotations at a single hospital as opposed to multiple hospitals as it has been in the past.
Most of the teaching hospitals at Ross are in major cities like. LA, Chicago, and New York. I looked some of those hospitals up and they have decent ratings.
 
I think its something along the lines of better hospitals and students being able to complete all of their clinical rotations at a single hospital as opposed to multiple hospitals as it has been in the past.
Most of the teaching hospitals at Ross are in major cities like. LA, Chicago, and New York. I looked some of those hospitals up and they have decent ratings.

http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/academics/hospital.cfm

California: California Hospital Medical Center with an astounding one residency program in FM in collab with USC. That's the extent of "wards-based" training you'll get..

New York: Jamaica Hospital medical Center, St. John's Episcopal

Despite being in major cities, most of these hospitals are really small and/or offer no wards-based training.

Is this the improved list?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I cant speak for most IMGs but the quality of clinical rotations at Ross has greatly improved in the past decade.
And Im not in denial. Its a tough spot for anyone to be in and I wouldnt recommend it but that opportunity its better than working as a lab tech for $28K with a master's degree in biology and no chance for any upward mobility or personal respect.

It's only better if you succeed. If you don't and end up thousands of dollars in debt, they you are far worse off than if you were stuck making a solid $28K without that debt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It's only better if you succeed. If you don't and end up thousands of dollars in debt, they you are far worse off than if you were stuck making a solid $28K without that debt.

This omg this.

It's like taking your rent money and buying lottery tickets with it. You're golden if you win, however statistically, you'll regret it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It's only better if you succeed. If you don't and end up thousands of dollars in debt, they you are far worse off than if you were stuck making a solid $28K without that debt.
Wrong.
If you only earn $28K a year and are $60K in debt from undergrad + grad school that is actually worse that earning $120K and being $230K in debt. The ability to live a comfortable life is all about purchasing power and I don't think loans can force you to pay more that 25% of your total earnings!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Wrong.
If you only earn $28K a year and are $60K in debt from undergrad + grad school that is actually worse that earning $120K and being $230K in debt. The ability to live a comfortable life is all about purchasing power and I don't think loans can force you to pay more that 25% of your total earnings!

I believe their point was that, because of the high attrition rates, many Caribbean medical students end up with much more debt and no increase in earning potential. If you make it through and obtain a residency you're in a better position, if not you just have a couple of extra thousand dollars in debt and a degree that you essentially cannot use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Wrong.
If you only earn $28K a year and are $60K in debt from undergrad + grad school that is actually worse that earning $120K and being $230K in debt. The ability to live a comfortable life is all about purchasing power and I don't think loans can force you to pay more that 25% of your total earnings!

This poor reading comprehension may be part of what got you into this mess in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
Wrong.
If you only earn $28K a year and are $60K in debt from undergrad + grad school that is actually worse that earning $120K and being $230K in debt. The ability to live a comfortable life is all about purchasing power and I don't think loans can force you to pay more that 25% of your total earnings!

how are you gonna make 120k if you a) get kicked out or fail out ( like 3/4 of the students there) b) don't match
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Dude stfu. Not everyone wants DO. Like how the **** is it anyone's business where I choose to study?

You don't know anything about me jerk off.

Woa, if you want people to treat you seriously, maybe...I don't know, you should talk at their level and not throw the f words around? Everyone is free to have their opinion, and if you have that "you don't know jack about me so stfu" attitude, why bother coming on forum (or, attach a PS to everyone of your post so we know something about you?)

and honestly based on how you two talk, I'm very happy that you did not bother about us lowly DOs...We actually want to work to improve our image and change how people perceive us.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Woa, if you want people to treat you seriously, maybe...I don't know, you should talk at their level and not throw the f words around? Everyone is is free to have their opinion whether, and if you have that "you don't know jack about me so stfu" attitude, why bother coming on forum (or, attach a PS to everyone of your post so we know something about you?)

and honestly based on how you two talk, I'm very happy that you did not bother about us lowly DOs...We actually want to work to improve our image and change how people perceive us.
Just shut up. You would be lucky to get a residency in Uganda
 
NnoGhN1.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
It's funny how y'all talk crap and then try to pull the "professionalism card"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
GWDS just raining the lines over Carib kids.

Feel like I'm watching end of 8 mile.

Carib is a worse option than going DO in this day and age. To those who 'didn't want to go DO' and chose Carib instead, you chose poorly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I suspect that many of the people who chose Caribbean over DO schools did so out of snobbery (I.e. "I want to have MD, not DO after my name!"). Well, you've made your choice.

And, mind you, it's not that I don't think Caribbean students can't become good doctors - I know some attendings and some current residents who graduated from Caribbean schools are who're doing great. The problem is, it's an uphill battle for Caribbean graduates to match into US residencies, especially with the expanding number of "mainland" MD and DO schools/seats and the basically unchanging number of residency spots. So, considering that DO students are typically chosen over Caribbean students, having that MD after your name is not going to give you any advantage.

(I'm not a DO student by the way, so I have no stake in DO pride. But I think it's unreasonable to choose lesser training and lower chances of matching for the sake of one letter.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Ross University School of medicine students obtained 830 residencies for 2015. Thats more than 4x's the amount of students in the average US med class.
 
Ross University School of medicine students obtained 830 residencies for 2015. Thats more than 4x's the amount of students in the average US med class.

and how many applied? absolute numbers mean nothing. if a drug improves outcome in 5000 but causes serious complications in 10000, that's not really an overall win
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
and how many applied? absolute numbers mean nothing. if a drug improves outcome in 5000 but causes serious complications in 10000, that's not really an overall win
Thats still an impressive feat when you consider that nearly 3% of all US residency positions are being filled by one school based in the Caribbean
 
Last edited:
If you go the mid-level route, please strongly consider the PA route before NP. The direct entry NP programs just seem like a terrible idea. It's an embarrassment to the nursing profession. PA education seems much more solid, and difference in quality is greatly exacerbated when becoming an NP w/o strong RN experience. I know multiple RNs that went thru a dual NP/PA program and all said they wouldn't even bother with the NP portion if doing it again. Even with RN experience, if I weren't pursing the MD route I would opt for PA over NP. Good luck!
I absolutely disagree. Who cares what some pre-med, med student or physician's view of NP is? Clearly, going the NP route is the greater of professional choices. Look at their political clout. They will also have independent practice rights in 50 states within the next 10-15 years. Let's not get emotional with advice.
 
If Ross were a US school , it would be shut down by LCME for it's lousy match numbers.

How many of those residencies are preliminaries vs categoricals?




Thats still an impressive feat when you consider that nearly 3% of all US residency positions are being filled by one school based in the Caribbean
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
If Ross were a US school , it would be shut down by LCME for it's lousy match numbers.

How many of those residencies are preliminaries vs categoricals?
Doesnt a preliminary residency come after a categorical residency?
 
If Ross were a US school , it would be shut down by LCME for it's lousy match numbers.

How many of those residencies are preliminaries vs categoricals?
This makes no sense because if Ross were in mainland then their graduate match numbers would be higher. If Harvard was to be in the Caribbean their match rate would be lower.
 
I only asked my weird question because I thought preliminary residencies were offered before entry into an advanced residency. This made me think that those people would have already completed a residency program.
Please clarify if Im wrong about this.
 
Doesnt a preliminary residency come after a categorical residency?
No. It ideally comes before an advanced residency but in the case of Caribbean grads all to often comes before re-applying to the match. The so-called "dead end prelim" is what's being referred to here -- it makes the schools match numbers look better ( if they don't break it out from the categoricals) but is still far from being on track for a career in medicine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I only asked my weird question because I thought preliminary residencies were offered before entry into an advanced residency. This made me think that those people would have already completed a residency program.
Please clarify if Im wrong about this.
See my post above. A prelim IS the residency you have to complete before an advanced residency. But if you don't have an advanced residency also already lined up, it means you'll be back in the match a year later. So for offshore grads it's sometimes a dead end path, but it makes match numbers artificially look better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
*sigh*. What I was trying to get across was that IF Ross were a US based, LCME accredited school with a match rate of 50-80%, they would be closed. And sued. There's a reason why they're off-shore, away from all those pesky US laws

This makes no sense because if Ross were in mainland then their graduate match numbers would be higher. If Harvard was to be in the Caribbean their match rate would be lower.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
This makes no sense because if Ross were in mainland then their graduate match numbers would be higher. If Harvard was to be in the Caribbean their match rate would be lower.

Was this a serious post?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Thats still an impressive feat when you consider that nearly 3% of all US residency positions are being filled by one school based in the Caribbean

That 3% is only due to the absurd class size of that one school based in the Caribbean. Also the definition (which you have so clearly proven not to understand) of a US residency position could mean a multitude of things. For Ross the majority of those spots means a dead end, do not pass go do not collect 200 preliminary spot that gives you no prospects of actually completing a residency.

So no, I'm not impressed that Ross shotguns their students into prelim residencies and uses those stats to boast about their "impressive" match rate. The webmaster of Ross is after all being paid to pull the wool over the sheeps eyes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
This makes no sense because if Ross were in mainland then their graduate match numbers would be higher. If Harvard was to be in the Caribbean their match rate would be lower.

Where are you basing this off of? If Harvard, the school, it's faculty, it's students, it's labs and it's NIH funding, were to be in the Caribbean, it's match rate would still destroy Ross-in-the-US. Not only that, it's match would actually send their grads into real categorical or advanced residencies.

Ross SOM is an auditorium filled with money hungry faculty with probably a lab or two shared with their vet school because surprise, Ross isn't eligible to receive NIH funding nor would much of their faculty even know how to submit for an R01 grant.

There's more to a med school then just teaching them preclinicals and sending them to "outstanding high quality clinical sites"..like a CA hospital consisting of a single FM residency as their GME program that they need USC's HELP running.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I'm not sure what the argument here has deteriorated to: certainly not Ross vs. Harvard.

Both sides are arguing in an extreme fashion: to say they going to Ross is similar to playing the lottery, that's an exaggeration. Yes, you take a substantial risk, and you have to go into this knowing there is a real chance you'll never be a doctor in the US. That chance is supposedly becoming more real every year, as more US med school spots are being created.

For the premed students reading these threads: try your best to get into an MD or DO program in the U.S., even if that means reapplying and trying to strengthen your application for 2-3 years or more. Going to a Caribbean school very well might add 2-3 years of trying to graduate and get a residency, and ultimately is a gamble where you might not match at all.

For someone who for whatever reason is very interested to become a doctor, and has some blemish on their record that prohibits them from getting into a mainland school but doesn't close residency doors--ie not something criminal or unprofessional, then trying a Caribbean school is a risky but reasonable alternative. It's like investing 200k in a business that has a 50-50 likelihood of success with good return (or no success with a sizable loan to repay.
 
I agree that this definitely IS risky, but it is not reasonable.

For someone who for whatever reason is very interested to become a doctor, and has some blemish on their record that prohibits them from getting into a mainland school but doesn't close residency doors--ie not something criminal or unprofessional, then trying a Caribbean school is a risky but reasonable alternative. It's like investing 200k in a business that has a 50-50 likelihood of success with good return (or no success with a sizable loan to repay.
 
SDN makes going to a Caribbean school sound like career suicide. Two of my good friends from post-bacc attended Ross because they couldn't get into osteopathic schools, and they're doing well. They both had high GPAs and low MCATs, and were advised to go that route instead of getting a Master's and reapplying.

Why would our advisers recommend a path that seems so risky?
 
Last edited:
The odds of them ever being a doctor are something like 25%. Look up the term "attrition rate".

And of course, you don't think that will ever happen to them, do you?


SDN makes going to a Caribbean school sound like career suicide. Two of my good friends from post-bacc attended Ross because they couldn't get into osteopathic schools, and they're doing well. They both had high GPAs and low MCATs, and were advised to go that route instead of getting a Master's and reapplying.

They're MS2s (already!) and I'm an MS1. They're even going to finish before I will because of how fast Ross moves students through preclinicals.

Why would our advisers recommend a path that seems so risky?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The odds of you and them ever being a doctor are something like 25%. Look up the term "attrition rate".

And of course, you don't think that will ever happen to you, do you?

Not sure what you're getting at with those remarks. I'm a student at an osteopathic medical school.

Was simply curious because they were both good students in our post-bacc program and I've read quite a few negative threads about Caribbean schools lately. Hoping that the anti-Carib sentiment is a bit overblown here since our school advisers even said it was a viable route to getting an MD.

Just worried about them not matching after reading so many negative-sounding threads.
 
Last edited:
Top