If pod school is just as hard as med school, why are the standards of acceptance so much lower?

[de Ribas]

Because MD's applicant pool is big enough to hide those" low standard" matriculate applicants according to you.
There is 483 applicants matriculate into MD school whose MCAT is range from 486 to 497.
There is 882 applicants matriculate into MD school whose MCAT is range from 498 to 501.

If you want look into GPA, you can go ahead.

Simply google:
MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Acceptees to U.S. Medical Schools, 2016-2017 or Bob has provide the link.


Total MD accepted applicants is ~ 9000 vs DPM accepted applicants ~600. Do the math.

exactly. But I thought there are about 25K of MD accepted applicants.

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[NTT123]

exactly. But I thought there are about 25K of MD accepted applicants.

Around 27K applicants and around 9K accepted in 2016-2017 cycle according to AAMC

 

[de Ribas]

Around 27K applicants and around 9K accepted in 2016-2017 cycle according to AAMC

around 50K applicants and 25K accepted. At least that what I thought it was.

 

[de Ribas]

around 50K applicants and 25K accepted. At least that what I thought it was.

 

[NTT123]

View attachment 225400

Thanks. Fixed the other post.

 

[air bud]

yes, with right study strategies, motivation, good work ethic and self-discipline.

Even if first 2 years at MD/DO schools contain couple more classes, I do think that average pod student can handle few more classes.

I don't think that last 2 years of either school vary in how hard these years are but different in the scope of what students do. Rotations should be also different in the scope but not how hard it is.

WHY are you still having this argument???? You are not even in school yet. You have no idea what you are talking about. Quit arguing with somebody who is never going to see your side of things (even if you are right...which you are not).

 

[air bud]

yes, with right study strategies, motivation, good work ethic and self-discipline.

Even if first 2 years at MD/DO schools contain couple more classes, I do think that average pod student can handle few more classes.

I don't think that last 2 years of either school vary in how hard these years are but different in the scope of what students do. Rotations should be also different in the scope but not how hard it is.

If you want to apply this to the top 5 or 10 students in the class, maybe there is an argument. But trust me, the average pod student is no where near smart enough to compete MD DO. You will be ashamed that some of your fellow classmates graduate. Just focus on doing your best in school and things will work out. And again, stop with this stupid argument that has been going on forever, that will not be resolved with more data or ancedotal evidence by you or anybody else. Just stop. Full stop.

 

[Nowehjose]

Listen, I struggle with buttons. I'm just happy to have made it this far. You all should just be happy for yourselves and don't get into a genital measuring contest with insecure people. Am I as smart as MDs from Harvard? No, but I sure am better looking.

 

[de Ribas]

If you want to apply this to the top 5 or 10 students in the class, maybe there is an argument. But trust me, the average pod student is no where near smart enough to compete MD DO. You will be ashamed that some of your fellow classmates graduate. Just focus on doing your best in school and things will work out. And again, stop with this stupid argument that has been going on forever, that will not be resolved with more data or ancedotal evidence by you or anybody else. Just stop. Full stop.

I don't agree. sorry. I respect your opinion. But I also have my own.
Thank you for your input.

 

[RedoxRxn]

.

 

[Windom Earle]

Let's assume that the average pod student is getting a 500 or below and a 3.40 GPA or below.

I respectfully disagree with what you think is the average pod student. The average MCAT is slightly lower than 500 and the GPA is probably around 3.25. And every point counts here.

With that being said, Midwestern is prolly the hardest school to get into. Avg GPA is 3.57 and MCAT is 25/500. Those are good enough for a DO schoo;

 

[Windom Earle]

Because MD's applicant pool is big enough to hide those" low standard" matriculate applicants according to you.
There is 483 applicants matriculate into MD school whose MCAT is range from 486 to 497.
There is 882 applicants matriculate into MD school whose MCAT is range from 498 to 501.

If you want look into GPA, you can go ahead.

Simply google:
MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Acceptees to U.S. Medical Schools, 2016-2017 or Bob has provide the link.


Total MD accepted applicants is ~ 21000 vs DPM accepted applicants ~600. Do the math.

Most of those students are URM for sure. And how do we know if they actually passed all 4 years?

 

[de Ribas]

I respectfully disagree with what you think is the average pod student. The average MCAT is slightly lower than 500 and the GPA is probably around 3.25. And every point counts here.

With that being said, Midwestern is prolly the hardest school to get into. Avg GPA is 3.57 and MCAT is 25/500. Those are good enough for a DO schoo;

That' what he said 500 or below.

 

[de Ribas]

Most of those students are URM for sure. And how do we know if they actually passed all 4 years?

I know that most of them did. It's an easy check. There are thousands of students accepted with 3.0 or lower GPAs and lower than 495 MCAT into MD and DO schools combined. Then you can check how many did not graduate. It is a lot less. Therefore, these students do pass medical school.

In addition, there are thousands of students whose GPAs and MCAT scores could be even lower and they went to Carribean. They still became MDs.

Smartness is not about GPA and MCAT.

 

[de Ribas]

Most of those students are URM for sure. And how do we know if they actually passed all 4 years?

Why does URM matter? will they get easier curriculum in medical school or will their grades be inflated? They will have to go through the same rigorous curriculum.

 

[de Ribas]

in 2016, 1430 students with 3.19 GPA or below mateiculated to DO schools and about 230 with MCAT of 494 or below.

MD schools accept even higher number.

Let's be objective.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Eh, I'm not so sure, especially for students at the pod schools with DO students. They take the same exact classes and tests, literally sitting beside them. From what we were told on interview day, pod students initially do Poorer 1st year and then do better than the DOs 2nd year.

For pod schools with large class sizes, I could deff see and argument for the bottom of the class being shameful.

Where pod gets easier is 3rd and 4th year. Apparently y'all don't have shelf exams

If you want to apply this to the top 5 or 10 students in the class, maybe there is an argument. But trust me, the average pod student is no where near smart enough to compete MD DO. You will be ashamed that some of your fellow classmates graduate. Just focus on doing your best in school and things will work out. And again, stop with this stupid argument that has been going on forever, that will not be resolved with more data or ancedotal evidence by you or anybody else. Just stop. Full stop.

 

[RedoxRxn]

It is not that I'm so smart. But I stay with the questions much longer.”
― Albert Einstein

It does not take a genius to get into medical school you just need to pursue it long/hard enough, through post bacs, mcat retakes etc to get yourself competitive enough. It's just a matter of how bad you want it.

 

[de Ribas]

It matters because they can get in with LOWER stats. Like really low in some cases. Affirmative Action at work here. lol

I know that they can get in with lower stats. We are talking about passing the school. I asked why it matters when they are in the med school? will they get easier curriculum? favors? inflated grades? easier tests? easier boards?

We are talking about if pods could pass the med school. We are bringing stats that there are thousands if student who are accepted to med schools with similar or even lower stats and still become doctors. The conclusion is that of course pods can do it with right strategies, good discipline and hard work.

 

[AttackNME]

I know that they can get in with lower stats. We are talking about passing the school. I asked why it matters when they are in the med school? will they get easier curriculum? favors? inflated grades? easier tests? easier boards?

We are talking about if pods could pass the med school. We are bringing stats that there are thousands if student who are accepted to med schools with similar or even lower stats and still become doctors. The conclusion is that of course pods can do it with right strategies, good discipline and hard work.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about being a podiatrist, it’s not a healthy thing to carry that before you even start. It’s like arguing if nursing students can pass Podiatry school. Well half of them probably don’t like feet so the answer is they will probably drop out. As will we if we were forced to learn the intricate details of obgyn and neurology as we wonder wtf are we doing when we just want to focus on the lower extremity. Look, I had a 3.3 gpa and 32 Mcat and I don’t care if I can pass med school or not because I chose Podiatry, it’s a great field for what it is, if you look at it as a backdoor way to be a medical doctor or orthopedic surgeon you will never be happy.

 

[Deecee2DO]

I think it is for these listed reasons.

Specifically reason number 3 (hence all the salary discussions around here). I would wager that many people would overlook specialization and respect if podiatry was a 9-5 and had an average salary of +400k. In this alternate dimension the word would quickly spread and all the sudden podiatry is featured #1 on U.S. News 25 Best jobs of 2017.Then next thing you know everyone and their cat is applying. It would even funnel applicants away from MD/DO/PA schools resulting in an increase in competition. Maybe




I'm not sure if you are trolling, but seeing that you are a gold donor I'll entertain. I have not been through medical school, podiatry or DO school so I cant comment on their relative difficulties. But with your logic people who get into DO schools are less competitive than MD students therefore not as smart? I mean they do take different licensing exams. I'm not sure maybe you are right, but you say it so matter of fact that maybe you have seen studies that confirm this?

To go as far as to say that DO students are "not as smart" because it is less competitive than MD school is extraordinarily ignorant. Measuring intelligence solely on how competitive you are for graduate school is absurd. Whoever is saying this really needs to think about what they are actually saying.

 

[Deecee2DO]

I know that most of them did. It's an easy check. There are thousands of students accepted with 3.0 or lower GPAs and lower than 495 MCAT into MD and DO schools combined. Then you can check how many did not graduate. It is a lot less. Therefore, these students do pass medical school.

In addition, there are thousands of students whose GPAs and MCAT scores could be even lower and they went to Carribean. They still became MDs.

Smartness is not about GPA and MCAT.

Amen. Great post. However, I wouldn't say thousands are accepted with sub 3.0/495 MCATs lol

 

[RedoxRxn]

@Deecee2DO That's my whole point. I was responding to your colleague's comment. And using his argument to....you know what, never mind

Untrue. It has nothing to do with this. The people who get into podiatry school are less competitive than those that get into medical school. Once in podiatry school, it is not as difficult as medical school as the students are not as smart either.

 

[de Ribas]

Amen. Great post. However, I wouldn't say thousands are accepted with sub 3.0/495 MCATs lol

really? you think I just made the numbers up?

look it up please. 1430 students were admitted to DO schools only with lower than 3.19 GPA and ~ 250 students with lower than 494 MCAT.

These stats are available for public.

 

[de Ribas]

To go as far as to say that DO students are "not as smart" because it is less competitive than MD school is extraordinarily ignorant. Measuring intelligence solely on how competitive you are for graduate school is absurd. Whoever is saying this really needs to think about what they are actually saying.

That's exactly the point I am trying to say here.

 

[de Ribas]

The answer to that is what I said above. They (MD/DO URM's) ARE WILLING to put in the effort to pass med school moreso than pod students are willing to put in the effort. The URM stats are not usually low for the same reasons as ours (as pre-pods) are. They may come from broken households with a crackhead/s parent.....may not speak english well.....may not be able to afford ($) to study for exams because they have to put food on the table for their lil brothers/sisters/parents. That's the reality for alot more URM's than you think, and that is WHY their stats to get in a lower. Whereas for us pre-pod's, we just don't care enough to use the "right strategies, good discipline, and hard work" as you say, even if we are given the opportunity. And again, THAT IS OKAY. Pod's COULD pass med school, but I have a feeling most would not be WILLING to.

~1200 WHITE (not counting all others) students were accepted with 3.19 GPA or lower and around 350 were accepted with MCAT of 23 or lower to US M.D. schools. This is just white applicants.

 

[Deecee2DO]

~1200 WHITE (not counting all others) students were accepted with 3.19 GPA or lower and around 350 were accepted with MCAT of 23 or lower to US M.D. schools. This is just white applicants.

Thats wild. I didn't know that. Goes to show that MCAT really has little merit in predicting whether you will pass medical school, pass boards and become a physician. I think the whole "your MCAT determines whether you will pass Step/COMLEX or not" is kind of bs. The two exams (MCAT and USMLE/COMLEX are grossly different).

 

[DJ Khaled's Pet Tiger]

Thats wild. I didn't know that. Goes to show that MCAT really has little merit in predicting whether you will pass medical school, pass boards and become a physician. I think the whole "your MCAT determines whether you will pass Step/COMLEX or not" is kind of bs. The two exams (MCAT and USMLE/COMLEX are grossly different).

99% pass rate and statistically insignificant differences from 499+ on Mcat

 

[Windom Earle]

Thats wild. I didn't know that. Goes to show that MCAT really has little merit in predicting whether you will pass medical school, pass boards and become a physician. I think the whole "your MCAT determines whether you will pass Step/COMLEX or not" is kind of bs. The two exams (MCAT and USMLE/COMLEX are grossly different).

I thought your Bio section on the MCAT had a direct correlation with Step 1. Also, these white students probably had a great life story. Maybe they served in Iraq, were relatives of the program directors, had an LOR from the governor, or were Obama's third cousin. It's not fair to say they got in with a low gpa and mcat when there's probably more to the story

 

[de Ribas]

I thought your Bio section on the MCAT had a direct correlation with Step 1. Also, these white students probably had a great life story. Maybe they served in Iraq, were relatives of the program directors, had an LOR from the governor, or were Obama's third cousin. It's not fair to say they got in with a low gpa and mcat when there's probably more to the story

I agree. You still miss the point.

Having these circumstances and stories will get you so far as to start Med School. While in school, these stories won't help you in the school. They will not give you an advantage while in the school. You will have to work as hard as everyone else in med school. The point is that it's not about intelligence or smartness that helps go through the school, but your motivation, discipline and work ethic.

 

[de Ribas]

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about being a podiatrist, it’s not a healthy thing to carry that before you even start. It’s like arguing if nursing students can pass Podiatry school. Well half of them probably don’t like feet so the answer is they will probably drop out. As will we if we were forced to learn the intricate details of obgyn and neurology as we wonder wtf are we doing when we just want to focus on the lower extremity. Look, I had a 3.3 gpa and 32 Mcat and I don’t care if I can pass med school or not because I chose Podiatry, it’s a great field for what it is, if you look at it as a backdoor way to be a medical doctor or orthopedic surgeon you will never be happy.

my point is not even about podiatrists, but when people say to someone, you are not smart enough to do such and such.

I belive that most people are smart enough to do anything. If this thread would involved saying that nursing students are not smart enough to pass medical school, I would defend my point anyways. The field or scope of practice does not define who is more smart or more intelligent.

 

[de Ribas]

Acceptance stats for podiatry schools are much lower because podiatry is just a less attractive career to medicine. "What do you do?" " I am a doctor of feet, I look at feet all day." If you had the stats, you go medicine. If you don't and you still want to be a "doctor" and have doctor salaries, you go podiatry.

lol

 

[de Ribas]

Acceptance stats for podiatry schools are much lower because podiatry is just a less attractive career to medicine. "What do you do?" " I am a doctor of feet, I look at feet all day." If you had the stats, you go medicine. If you don't and you still want to be a "doctor" and have doctor salaries, you go podiatry.

I see that majority of your posts involve controversial subjects: DO vs MD, pharmacy PA, NP, intelligence topics and so on.

Please do not troll here.

 

[Deecee2DO]

I thought your Bio section on the MCAT had a direct correlation with Step 1. Also, these white students probably had a great life story. Maybe they served in Iraq, were relatives of the program directors, had an LOR from the governor, or were Obama's third cousin. It's not fair to say they got in with a low gpa and mcat when there's probably more to the story

There is at least some (minor) correlation, but your MCAT bio section doesn't predict success on Step/COMLEX. They test different knowledge bases. The medical boards do not ask you ridiculous questions on trivial and grossly ambiguous passages. They are cases. Yes they both require critical thinking but they are different tests. Think of it this way, 25 years ago, a 23 MCAT was competitive at most US DO schools and now all of those graduates are physicians in various specialties. The pools are just now getting much more competitive, but just because they are doesn't mean someone with a less than competitive MCAT can't do well on Step/COMLEX. I had a 497 on my MCAT and I was accepted to a US medical school, not because I knew someone or had a LOR from the president. I got in because I worked hard. I applied with a 3.7 science GPA and a DC (doctor of chiropractic medicine) degree, where I graduated top of my class (no, I am not patting myself on the back, just trying to make a point). Aside from my MCAT, the remainder of my application was very competitive. But, someone saying that an applicant with a low MCAT AND a low sGPA/cGPA frequently gets accepted to a US medical school is probably, more than likely, misinformed.

 

[Weirdy]

Listen, I struggle with buttons. I'm just happy to have made it this far. You all should just be happy for yourselves and don't get into a genital measuring contest with insecure people. Am I as smart as MDs from Harvard? No, but I sure am better looking.

Slow ur roll there bud.

Clearly the ones with lower stats like me got in by superior phenotypes.

 

[Deecee2DO]

99% pass rate and statistically insignificant differences from 499+ on Mcat

Exactly

 

[HueySmith]

I see that majority of your posts involve controversial subjects: DO vs MD, pharmacy PA, NP, intelligence topics and so on.

Please do not troll here.

Not trolling, that's exactly how it is. I have yet to find a pre-health classmate of mine who said they aspired to be a podiatrist. Most of them either say medical school, pharmacy school, nursing, optometry, PA, or whatever. And before I get flamed, I did not say and do not hold the sentiment that Podiatry students are inferior to medical students.

 

[DJ Khaled's Pet Tiger]

Not trolling, that's exactly how it is. I have yet to find a pre-health classmate of mine who said they aspired to be a podiatrist. Most of them either say medical school, pharmacy school, nursing, optometry, PA, or whatever. And before I get flamed, I did not say and do not hold the sentiment that Podiatry students are inferior to medical students.

Yeah I can confirm that... I'm pretty well connected at my large pre Med institution and I've made a total of 1 person who wants to be a podiatrist.

 

[de Ribas]

Yeah I can confirm that... I'm pretty well connected at my large pre Med institution and I've made a total of 1 person who wants to be a podiatrist.

again, podiatry is a specialty. Do you see many who say I want to be FM, ER or Psych or Urologist or F/A surgeon? no

Let's think objectively.

 

[de Ribas]

Not trolling, that's exactly how it is. I have yet to find a pre-health classmate of mine who said they aspired to be a podiatrist. Most of them either say medical school, pharmacy school, nursing, optometry, PA, or whatever. And before I get flamed, I did not say and do not hold the sentiment that Podiatry students are inferior to medical students.

Podiatry is a specialty. not many go around and say what specialty they want to be in? pre-med is general terminology.

Do you see many who go around saying they want to be ICU nurse or Labor and Delivery nurse? Do you see many who go around saying they want to be Geriatric Nurse Practitioners?

 

[Deecee2DO]

I have little empirical knowledge when it comes to podiatric medicine, but I will say that I think of DPMs as physicians. They are fully licensed to prescribe and perform surgery in all 50 states, from what I have read. Also, from what I know, podiatric medical school is quite rigorous. I have a high regard for DPMs, they earned their degree, having gone through a very challenging medical curriculum. It may be easier to get accepted to pod school, but definitely not easy to get through.

 

[de Ribas]

Yeah I can confirm that... I'm pretty well connected at my large pre Med institution and I've made a total of 1 person who wants to be a podiatrist.

Like you heard many say they want to be F/A docs...lol

 

[HueySmith]

again, podiatry is a specialty. Do you see many who say I want to be FM, ER or Psych or Urologist or F/A surgeon? no

Let's think objectively.

Podiatry, by itself, like medicine, pharmacy, optometry, is largely a standalone graduate doctoral program. Podiatrists aren't trained by attending medical school first then into a podiatry specialty. You apply to podiatry school to be a podiatrist. You apply to medicine to be a physician, then you specialized in the different areas of medicine. Get how that works?

There can be specialties in podiatry. But, podiatry, like medicine/pharmacy/optometry, is a standalone degree with a different doctoral degree granted at the end of the 4 years of school. Thus, the word podiatry, by itself, is not a specialty.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Podiatry, by itself, like medicine, pharmacy, optometry, is largely a standalone graduate doctoral program. Podiatrists aren't trained by attending medical school first then into a podiatry specialty. You apply to podiatry school to be a podiatrist. You apply to medicine to be a physician, then you specialized in the different areas of medicine. Get how that works?

There can be specialties in podiatry. But, podiatry, like medicine/pharmacy/optometry, is a standalone degree with a different doctoral degree granted at the end of the 4 years of school. Thus, the word podiatry, by itself, is not a specialty.

I would consider pod school medical school. They just go straight into their specialty. An orthopedist who has done a fellowship in foot and ankle would be performing similar surgeries to the podiatric surgeon. However, the orthopedist had to go through 4 years of generalized medical training before delving into orthopedics and foot and ankle.

 

[de Ribas]

Podiatry, by itself, like medicine, pharmacy, optometry, is largely a standalone graduate doctoral program. Podiatrists aren't trained by attending medical school first then into a podiatry specialty. You apply to podiatry school to be a podiatrist. You apply to medicine to be a physician, then you specialized in the different areas of medicine. Get how that works?

There can be specialties in podiatry. But, podiatry, like medicine/pharmacy/optometry, is a standalone degree with a different doctoral degree granted at the end of the 4 years of school. Thus, the word podiatry, by itself, is not a specialty.

Just for you to know, podiatrists are physicians. there was a thread already discussing why podiatry is a standalone program. I won't get into that subject again.

Again, I don't understand why you go around all these controversial threads and derail them. This conversation is not even part of this thread.

I won't argue anymore.

 

[DJ Khaled's Pet Tiger]

Like you heard many say they want to be F/A docs...lol

Well, I've heard many say they want to be a doctor. I've heard many say they want to be a dentist. I've heard one say they want to be a podiatrist. Just personal experience and is inevitably biased by the fact that I go to an expensive school that heavily focuses on pre medical studies.

 

[de Ribas]

Well, I've heard many say they want to be a doctor. I've heard many say they want to be a dentist. I've heard one say they want to be a podiatrist. Just personal experience and is inevitably biased by the fact that I go to an expensive school that heavily focuses on pre medical studies.

There are several threads on this forum discussing these topics. I won't continue on here with conversation that is irrelevant to this thread and with ones who come here to podiatry forum to troll and derail threads.

 

[throw_away5122]

If pod school is just as hard as med school, why are the standards of acceptance so much lower?

This guy is so misinformed. Vet school in fact is the most selective. Have anyone heard of MIT? they are the most selective

 

[Deecee2DO]

I've always wondered why dentists can get into OMFS MD programs, but pods can't get into Orthopedic/FootAnkle MD programs? That is one thing I would like to find more info on

 

[DJ Khaled's Pet Tiger]

There are several threads on this forum discussing these topics. I won't continue on here with conversation that is irrelevant to this thread and with ones who come here to podiatry forum to troll and derail threads.

I don't understand how I was trolling.. you quoted me after I mentioned that podiatry seems to be a less popular career choice, which I attributed to why it may be less competitive (aka the thread's topic).