If the gov ends up forgiving all student loans...

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Debt is debt, as others mentioned- it just doesn’t go away- gets transferred to another entity. Doesn’t matter what kind of debt.

the issue is how do you keep loan forgiveness sustainable? the schools are raising tuition every year, how do we keep finding the money to pay these schools ?
Its all a house of cards.
These universities are the problem
The education at a state university rivals any ivy league education.
THere is no justification for a 50K pricetag on an ivy education. NONE

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I w ould suggest a settlement amount to all student borrowers immediately for a period of 18 months.

Pay the principal in full in one lump sum or over 18 months and ALL the interests is forgiven including ALL FEES.
Then at the end of 18 months we push the reset button.
This abuse and fraud on the vulnerable HAS TO STOP.
Write and call your congressmen and senators: It works!!!

Abuse and fraud is a strong word for medical school debt when an doctor earns millions over his life time is an technically the top 1%. Forgiving the loans would change nothing. Federal loans are giving out easily and colleges know this and can charge whatever they want. It would fix nothing but benefit a few. Federal loans are one of the reasons why colleges are so expensive anyway.

It's funny actually, a college degree used to be worth working a part time job or some debt but than the general conscientious became that everyone should go to college and the degrees became worth less and less. The push for everyone to be college educated rapidly diminished the earnings of a bachelors degree.
 
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Lol interesting. To each his own i suppose. But just logically speaking, you do realize your loan has no value right? Paying it back does not give you anything in return. What is your reason for paying unreasonably high amount? Unless youre making $30k+ a month...

It's more a return on investment when you have very expensive loans for say medical school. You earn millions over your career and are literally the top 1% of earners of the nation. Paying it back makes sure your credit history does not tank and since student loans cannot be forgive, it is a big headache.
 
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It's more a return on investment when you have very expensive loans for say medical school. You earn millions over your career and are literally the top 1% of earners of the nation. Paying it back makes sure your credit history does not tank and since student loans cannot be forgive, it is a big headache.

Student loan does not affect your credit score. It does not affect you getting a mortgage or a loan for whatever the hell reason. Unless you dont make payments or some kind of hold on your account.

Recently got a mortgage for a home with zero issues. Was preapproved for $600,000 although we ended buying a cheaper house. When I bought my car, got a 6% interest on a genesis g80. Have 4 credit cards which were all opened after I graduated all with high limit. Stilled maintain a 700+ credit score which isnt great but decent.

I dont know where people get this idea that student loan will handicap you on credits. If you got credit issues, thats probably bc of other bad decisions youve made in life.
 
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If you want to retire early, paying off loans can be highly beneficial. As can the peace of mind of knowing you don't have a mountain of debt

Problem with retiring early is you don't know how financial markets or even the economy could do 10-30 years down the line. Say you retired back in the 70's and then during the carter administration inflation was nearly 10-12% for a couple of year. A good portion of your savings have just been wiped out. Or say taxes increase even further, what then.

401k and IRA's depend mostly on the U.S companies, stocks, and bonds. Some bonds are becoming negative and we don't know how buisness laws and taxes will affect our retirement in the future.
 
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Student loan does not affect your credit score. It does not affect you getting a mortgage or a loan for whatever the hell reason. Unless you dont make payments or some kind of hold on your account.

Recently got a mortgage for a home with zero issues. Was preapproved for $600,000 although we ended buying a cheaper house. When I bought my car, got a 6% interest on a genesis g80. Have 4 credit cards which were all opened after I graduated all with high limit. Stilled maintain a 700+ credit score which isnt great but decent.

I dont know where people get this idea that student loan will handicap you on credits. If you got credit issues, thats probably bc of other bad decisions youve made in life.

The student loan will be forcefully taken from your pay eventually. That is the main thing. Private student loans, the ones still left, affect credit score.
 
Problem with retiring early is you don't know how financial markets or even the economy could do 10-30 years down the line. Say you retired back in the 70's and then during the carter administration inflation was nearly 10-12% for a couple of year. A good portion of your savings have just been wiped out. Or say taxes increase even further, what then.

401k and IRA's depend mostly on the U.S companies, stocks, and bonds. Some bonds are becoming negative and we don't know how buisness laws and taxes will affect our retirement in the future.
Diversity is key, as is living below your means. If you were invested in the market during the Carter administration and doing a 4% drawdown, you would be fine. Everyone says "oh but the markets could crash!" But as long as you don't take your money out and continue to draw 4%, you'll only have a couple of lean years before your portfolio recovers. Times like that are why it is key to own something like rentals, as rents continue to rise regardless of housing prices or market conditions in most markets.
 
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The student loan will be forcefully taken from your pay eventually. That is the main thing. Private student loans, the ones still left, affect credit score.
Right. I dont have any private loans. I did the math, better to save now and pay as little as possible on loans and invest with good returns. You would still save more on the tax bomb on a 250k loan plus interest.
 
The biggest fear is taking out 300k in loans and suddenly with a swipe of the congressional pen your future salary is 100k. Then what? Best to pay off loans if you’re able to as quickly as possible.
 
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The biggest fear is taking out 300k in loans and suddenly with a swipe of the congressional pen your future salary is 100k. Then what? Best to pay off loans if you’re able to as quickly as possible.

Can’t you just refile REPAYE paperwork and your payment adjusts down?

If i’m 100% sure my salary gets cut in half next year, I’m not going to pay more for a loan, I’m going to horde cash and stash it away in protected accounts.


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Can’t you just refile REPAYE paperwork and your payment adjusts down?

If i’m 100% sure my salary gets cut in half next year, I’m not going to pay more for a loan, I’m going to horde cash and stash it away in protected accounts.


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Unless you’re psychic you won’t know when it’s goinng to happen. You’ll be paying off that loan for 25 years. Idk about you but I would personally hate having something like that hanging over my head.
 
Student loan does not affect your credit score. It does not affect you getting a mortgage or a loan for whatever the hell reason. Unless you dont make payments or some kind of hold on your account.

Recently got a mortgage for a home with zero issues. Was preapproved for $600,000 although we ended buying a cheaper house. When I bought my car, got a 6% interest on a genesis g80. Have 4 credit cards which were all opened after I graduated all with high limit. Stilled maintain a 700+ credit score which isnt great but decent.

I dont know where people get this idea that student loan will handicap you on credits. If you got credit issues, thats probably bc of other bad decisions youve made in life.

I think you just realize that a credit score isn’t a good measure of financial success, and banks are largely stupid.
They exist to loan people money, and they will offer you way more money than any sane person should.

I hope you realize that after student loans, car loans, credit cards, utilities...do you have any margin in your life? Loans deprive you of your income, which is how most people build wealth.
 
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I think you just realize that a credit score isn’t a good measure of financial success, and banks are largely stupid.
They exist to loan people money, and they will offer you way more money than any sane person should.

I hope you realize that after student loans, car loans, credit cards, utilities...do you have any margin in your life? Loans deprive you of your income, which is how most people build wealth.

My wife and I save about 20% income each month and both have mutual funds tucked away. We are doing decent.
 
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Unless you’re psychic you won’t know when it’s goinng to happen. You’ll be paying off that loan for 25 years. Idk about you but I would personally hate having something like that hanging over my head.

Apparently people on this forum are psychic.

I dunno. There’s other things to do than worry about debt. Go eat smelly cheese, have lots of sex, go snowboarding. Borrow, set payment, go do something else.


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Apparently people on this forum are psychic.

I dunno. There’s other things to do than worry about debt. Go eat smelly cheese, have lots of sex, go snowboarding. Borrow, set payment, go do something else.


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Like, eat smelly cheese while having sex? eh, nutella is better....

Also, pharmacist + lots of sex = oxymoron.
 
You support a plan that would cost


You support a plan that is not finanacially feasible at all. It will cost 3 Trillion dollars, in other words the current U.S budget of 3.42 Trillion(in revenue) or 4 trillion with the deficit. You would have to stop all functions of government to enact such a plan. And all for just $12000 a year.

He wants to fund with a National Sales tax of 10% but economists that have crunched the number say the number has to be closer to 20% on top of other taxes. All for this and it's not like $1000 will go very far.

Andrew Yang had explained how he would pay for it....just YouTube him.
 
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Andrew Yang had explained how he would pay for it....just YouTube him.

yes but economists have done the calculations and it does not come close to covering his plan. Not to mention will the economy be affected with essentially a national sales tax of nearly 20 % and a state sales tax.

The overall spending taxes in the USA by GDP is already 7.1 trillion in spending of federal, local, and state. Our total GDP is 19.1 trillion so government spending is roughly 38%. This is in line with European levels of spending like Norway (38%), Germany (35%), etc. Andrew Yangs program would put us at 51% of spending by GDP, which no nation has hit. Only France is close to that and it is at 45% and its economy is doing poorly just like most of Europe.

To cover Yangs proposal you would need to
  • A 10 percent VAT
  • A tax on financial transactions
  • Taxing capital gains and carried interest at ordinary income rates
  • Remove the wage cap on the Social Security payroll tax
  • A $40 per metric ton carbon tax

Oh and with all that it would also have to be lower to $750 even with all those taxes. With the federal government taking even more money, it would only squeeze local and state.

 
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The biggest fear is taking out 300k in loans and suddenly with a swipe of the congressional pen your future salary is 100k. Then what? Best to pay off loans if you’re able to as quickly as possible.

Even if we enact Medicare for all the government would not slash pay outright. Likely, the government would borrow and print, allow inflation to occur, and then not raise the salaries of doctors with the inflation. During Carter, Inflation was 10-11% a year. Have that for 4-6 years and your money is worth less than half. Then all that would
Be required would be is not to raise pay with inflation. Or the fed could increase residency slots and accept a lot more foreign doctors and flood the market. Foreign doctors are willing to work for a lot less than what people here born expect.

But salary aside, the USA has hospitals with far more MRI’s, less wait times, better access to medicine, more specialists, more advance equipment,etc. To cut costs would be impossible because our system was not built from the ground up. European nations ration to keep spending low and different demographics (most of our spending is due to having 4-5x the obese population than Europeans and healthcare for all would do nothing for that).
 
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I think you just realize that a credit score isn’t a good measure of financial success, and banks are largely stupid.
They exist to loan people money, and they will offer you way more money than any sane person should.

I hope you realize that after student loans, car loans, credit cards, utilities...do you have any margin in your life? Loans deprive you of your income, which is how most people build wealth.
Credit score and occupation are used for loans. I would hardly call banks stupid. Also banks are giving out more easily loans because part of how loans work depend on the US central bank the Federal Reserve and the interest rate they charge. Any central bank sets interest rates and this affects how banks give out loans. Banking is a very highly regulated sector. Interest rates set by the Federal Reserve are currently very low and was just cut today. This is to encourage banks to borrow at lower amounts and give more loans to “stimulate” the economy.

The U.S is not in such a bad state with our central bank interest rate. The European Central Bank currently has a negative interest rate of -0.5%. This means banks have to pay money for the reserves of cash they keep on hand. Thus, they lend out more and more money so they don’t have to pay for keeping money on hand. This is all to stimulate the economy since European economic growth is tepid, with the exception of Germany. Actually in Denmark mortgages are at a negative interest rate because people are not buying houses, a $1 million dollar house would cost you somewhere around $930,000 over 30 years. And not surprisingly Denmark has one of the highest OCED country taxes at 45%.

Not sure why people want to bring so many European ideas into the USA. They are literally the leaders of nothing any longer, other than Germany. Europe has no tech industry because of the way benefits and firings work. Growth is tepid. They don’t spend on defense and will expect the USA to protect them.
 
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Credit score and occupation are used for loans. I would hardly call banks stupid. Also banks are giving out more easily loans because part of how loans work depend on the US central bank the Federal Reserve and the interest rate they charge. Any central bank sets interest rates and this affects how banks give out loans. Banking is a very highly regulated sector. Interest rates set by the Federal Reserve are currently very low and was just cut today. This is to encourage banks to borrow at lower amounts and give more loans to “stimulate” the economy.

The U.S is not in such a bad state with our central bank interest rate. The European Central Bank currently has a negative interest rate of -0.5%. This means banks have to pay money for the reserves of cash they keep on hand. Thus, they lend out more and more money so they don’t have to pay for keeping money on hand. This is all to stimulate the economy since European economic growth is tepid, with the exception of Germany. Actually in Denmark mortgages are at a negative interest rate because people are not buying houses, a $1 million dollar house would cost you somewhere around $930,000 over 30 years. And not surprisingly Denmark has one of the highest OCED country taxes at 45%.

Not sure why people want to bring so many European ideas into the USA. They are literally the leaders of nothing any longer, other than Germany. Europe has no tech industry because of the way benefits and firings work. Growth is tepid. They don’t spend on defense and will expect the USA to protect them.

You know our life expectancy has gone down every year for the last 3 year right? Check out France life expectancy and tell me who is doing better.
 
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Not sure why people want to bring so many
European ideas into the USA. They are literally the leaders of nothing any longer, other than Germany. Europe has no tech industry because of the way benefits and firings work. Growth is tepid. They don’t spend on defense and will expect the USA to protect them.

I guess it all depends on whether you value pure economic growth and power vs. general quality of life for the average citizen.
 
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I found a study that showed most of the defaulters are people who never finished a 4 year degree.
 
Student loan debt wasn't even an issue up until the Federal Government gave out loans to college students. This supposed "benign" act is why college prices sky rocketed. Before people were able to pay for college by working a part time job. As a result of federal loans, colleges have gotten bigger and bigger, add more administrators than professors. Colleges have made their buildings bigger, adder more amenities, etc.

Look at the universities in Europe. They are much smaller, have less faculty, etc.

Now the issue is to make college free would be too expensive, since U.S colleges are bigger than European and thus more expensive, but taking out federal loans would disrupt the whole educational system.
The system should be disrupted, it isn't functioning as it should
 
I am a card carrying democrat - but I wish the candidates would talk about what they are going to do to prevent people from getting these huge loans to begin with? If we forgive them all, we are going to be right back where we are in a few years. The cost of higher education is getting out of control. The cost of tuition should not be going up faster than inflation - how do we limit that?
Do we take away the non-profit status if they spend over a certain threshold on infrastructure? Would this reduce the arms race of who can build the nicest dorms? other ideas?
 
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Baruch is 6800 a year. UCLA is 12000 a year. florida is 6300. If you don't get in go to a JC and then transfer. I don't see any problems with the system. All three of those schools will land you a job at a big 4 accounting or a boeing//nasa engineer with the right grades. I think the system is fine just the way it is.
 
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Baruch is 6800 a year. UCLA is 12000 a year. florida is 6300. If you don't get in go to a JC and then transfer. I don't see any problems with the system. All three of those schools will land you a job at a big 4 accounting or a boeing//nasa engineer with the right grades. I think the system is fine just the way it is.

i paid $2000 a semester at UT back in early 2000s. Haha. Glad i dont have undergrad loans.
 
I'm struggling with the fact that I have enough money saved to wipe out a large portion of my loans, but really don't want to deplete my savings in this job market. If forgiveness passes then I'm the fool who didn't graduate then buy a house, new car, vacations, year off to "find myself" and put myself on the 30 year plan. It really punishes us who are trying to be responsible which is why I don't support it. I do however support drastically lowering interest rates. I think that's a good compromise that doesn't piss anyone off. My federal loans are 6.8%, ridiculous.

Has anyone used the Elizabeth Warren calculator on her campaign website to see what her plan would forgive? I would have 34K forgiven. What if I paid 34K of my own money then a year later her plan passes!? I would be beyond pissed. Even if she got elected how long would it take for her law to pass? Years later or into a second term? I don't have faith so will probably be the sucker who lived like a pauper to pay my loans off ASAP.
Exact same boat for me.
I am well along in my career could easily afford to pay off the remaining balance on my loans. But I am going to wait until at least the election. If EW wins I’ll give it another year just in case she makes good on her plan.

In my case my interest rate is low 3.75, so feel like investing is better option than wiping the loan. But there is the psychological component of being debt free (ex mortgage)
 
Baruch is 6800 a year. UCLA is 12000 a year. florida is 6300. If you don't get in go to a JC and then transfer. I don't see any problems with the system. All three of those schools will land you a job at a big 4 accounting or a boeing//nasa engineer with the right grades. I think the system is fine just the way it is.

The problem is the Federal Government (aka we the taxpayers) give out loans to schools regardless of they charge $7000 a year or if they charge $40,000 a year. We also give out loans regardless of major, regardless of estimate future salary, regardless of qualify of the school, and complete disregard for actual need for the degree (ie taxpayer loans paying $15,000 for someone to get a "pharmacy tech" certificate.) IF this were an actual free market, we wouldn't be having the problem, but it's not, and the system is clearly broken.
 
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The problem is the Federal Government (aka we the taxpayers) give out loans to schools regardless of they charge $7000 a year or if they charge $40,000 a year. We also give out loans regardless of major, regardless of estimate future salary, regardless of qualify of the school, and complete disregard for actual need for the degree (ie taxpayer loans paying $15,000 for someone to get a "pharmacy tech" certificate.) IF this were an actual free market, we wouldn't be having the problem, but it's not, and the system is clearly broken.

I would argue that a $15,000 pharmacy tech certificate is a better investment than $250,000 in pharmacy school student loans.
 
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I recently started following the Dave Ramsey Baby Steps program. Completed Step 1, almost done with Step 2 (except for student loans). What blew my mind was how much money I was wasting eating outside and at the hookah lounge (Almost $3000 a month). Getting married was a factor in this since that meant no more need to prowl the hookah lounge for hookups.

Now if I wanna smoke, I just make hookah at home (the glass hookah I have cost $100, I spend $35 a month on a kilo of grape flavored tobacco, and $40 every 3 months on 10 kilos of charcoal).
 
I recently started following the Dave Ramsey Baby Steps program. Completed Step 1, almost done with Step 2 (except for student loans). What blew my mind was how much money I was wasting eating outside and at the hookah lounge (Almost $3000 a month). Getting married was a factor in this since that meant no more need to prowl the hookah lounge for hookups.

Now if I wanna smoke, I just make hookah at home (the glass hookah I have cost $100, I spend $35 a month on a kilo of grape flavored tobacco, and $40 every 3 months on 10 kilos of charcoal).

You had to listen to Ramsey to realize going out was expensive?
 
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I recently started following the Dave Ramsey Baby Steps program. Completed Step 1, almost done with Step 2 (except for student loans). What blew my mind was how much money I was wasting eating outside and at the hookah lounge (Almost $3000 a month). Getting married was a factor in this since that meant no more need to prowl the hookah lounge for hookups.

Now if I wanna smoke, I just make hookah at home (the glass hookah I have cost $100, I spend $35 a month on a kilo of grape flavored tobacco, and $40 every 3 months on 10 kilos of charcoal).

Do you max your 401k?
 
I recently started following the Dave Ramsey Baby Steps program. Completed Step 1, almost done with Step 2 (except for student loans). What blew my mind was how much money I was wasting eating outside and at the hookah lounge (Almost $3000 a month). Getting married was a factor in this since that meant no more need to prowl the hookah lounge for hookups.

Now if I wanna smoke, I just make hookah at home (the glass hookah I have cost $100, I spend $35 a month on a kilo of grape flavored tobacco, and $40 every 3 months on 10 kilos of charcoal).

Whoa.....when did you get married.
 
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I don't t think we'll ever see Bernie's plan put into action (I hope). I thought Bernie was a godsend when he first ran because he understood the problems in the world and the negative direction we are heading in and was the only one who ever has solutions to fix them. But now we have more options and his solutions seem crazy compared to some. There's probably enough republicans + reasonable democrats that paying off all student debt will never happen. It will more likely involve somehow subsidizing or limiting costs for future loans. I'm not sure if Bernie is really for all his policies or if it's just a negotiating tactic (e.g. ask for complete loan forgiveness and settle with a more reasonable capping of loans and allowing more deferment if you're in a tough spot).

Bernie understands? He's going to add even more debt then Obama and Trump. How is that understanding?
 
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Did you read my post? I clearly disagreed with paying off student loans... Do you think tripling the number of academic administrators compared to forty years ago and raising tuition 5%+ every year is the ideal education system? Not sure when you graduated, but my impression is that it was quite a while ago. In pharmacy, we increased tuition by over 50% over just an 8 year period. Plus residency at half wages for 1-2 years will soon be the norm. And pharmacy is not the exception. Bernie understands the problem. I clearly said he doesn't have the right solution. If I were in charge we would have wage and hiring freezes on academic administrators (not researchers or professors) for the foreseeable future at public institutions. When these guys retire their job should disappear. Might even have to layoff some of these boomers making over $500k a year to put the next generation into debt and work on pointless programs and projects. At the same time, tenured professor positions have declined drastically. Education is useful, but only if it's quality education. So yeah, not sure if Bernie really wants free education or if it's a negotiating tactic to ask for the whole thing and settle for something reasonable. I mean, that's how Trump got his SALT tax deduction limit. He asked to get rid of all of it then compromised on a limit.

What about amending the credit law so that student loans and their status do not factor into credit score? Like someone defaulting on student loans should still have an 800 credit score if they are good on their other loans and credit cards. It shouldn't affect ability to get Tier 1 rates on auto loans or home loans.

Example, I found a used 2004 BMW M3 with less than 30000 miles on sale for $6,000. Went to get an auto loan but they want to charge 15% interest. I wonder if the seller is willing to take $2000 now and agree to sign a notarized agreement that I pay him $500 every month for 8 months.
 
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What about amending the credit law so that student loans and their status do not factor into credit score? Like someone defaulting on student loans should still have an 800 credit score if they are good on their other loans and credit cards. It shouldn't affect ability to get Tier 1 rates on auto loans or home loans.

Example, I found a used 2004 BMW M3 with less than 30000 miles on sale for $6,000. Went to get an auto loan but they want to charge 15% interest. I wonder if the seller is willing to take $2000 now and agree to sign a notarized agreement that I pay him $500 every month for 8 months.
I think the higher interest rate is more due to borrowing such a low amount.
 
If you tell me where it is that you're buying a 2004 BMW M3 with less than 30,000 miles for $6k I can look into it for you :)

Seriously, that is quite the deal and I'd probably buy it no matter what terms you're able to negotiate assuming it hasn't been hit by a wrecking ball or driven off a cliff. #showmethecarfax

Right? The KBB/average price on that model/year for ~100k miles, good condition, no options, is like 15 to 17k.
 
Who going into medicine wouldn't choose a 2+4 program with a starting salary of 125k a year two blocks from their dream home spot with 45k in debt. The issue is that pharmacy is a better option than everything else out there if you go by statistics from ten years ago.
 
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Who going into medicine wouldn't choose a 2+4 program with a starting salary of 125k a year two blocks from their dream home spot with 45k in debt. The issue is that pharmacy is a better option than everything else out there if you go by statistics from ten years ago.

Yeah too bad we pumped out too many pharmacists in the 10 years. Supply and demand but too much supply and no more demand lol.
 
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What about amending the credit law so that student loans and their status do not factor into credit score? Like someone defaulting on student loans should still have an 800 credit score if they are good on their other loans and credit cards. It shouldn't affect ability to get Tier 1 rates on auto loans or home loans.
Example, I found a used 2004 BMW M3 with less than 30000 miles on sale for $6,000. Went to get an auto loan but they want to charge 15% interest. I wonder if the seller is willing to take $2000 now and agree to sign a notarized agreement that I pay him $500 every month for 8 months.

Wow! 15% interest for an auto loan??? I thought my last auto loan of 3.7% interest was too high (compared to the much lower interest rate I had got on the vehicle before that.) So is this student loan debt causing you to get the high auto interest rate?
 
Wow! 15% interest for an auto loan??? I thought my last auto loan of 3.7% interest was too high (compared to the much lower interest rate I had got on the vehicle before that.) So is this student loan debt causing you to get the high auto interest rate?

I’m gonna venture a guess it’s a combination of a) limited credit history, b) the fact that it’s a used car (less favorable rates), and c) small loan size

I have boatloads of student loan debt and still manage to qualify for 0% or 0.9% (rather this was a few years ago).

At that low of a price, I’d just buy a car with a credit card and pay it off over 2-3 months or something.

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Wow! 15% interest for an auto loan??? I thought my last auto loan of 3.7% interest was too high (compared to the much lower interest rate I had got on the vehicle before that.) So is this student loan debt causing you to get the high auto interest rate?

Credit score is 580, it's climbed a bit from the 480 it was 3 years ago. I'm not sure how much the student loans affect it though. I wonder how it will change after I have all my credit cards paid off in 4-5 months.
 
Credit score is 580, it's climbed a bit from the 480 it was 3 years ago. I'm not sure how much the student loans affect it though. I wonder how it will change after I have all my credit cards paid off in 4-5 months.

I’ve seen people with foreclosures higher than that...what’s the story?


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