If you could do it over would you?
Started by 652316541
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
mind expanding on that?
Nothing to expand on. I can't imagine another job I'd want to do less than dentistry.
I'm not sure why you're asking MDs what they think about dentistry as a career anyway. Outside of the OMFS forum (do we even have one of those?) I don't think there are many physicians here who have personal experience being a dentist. Most of us barely even have time to go to the dentist.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
My dentist loves it when I go there on my post-call afternoon. I lean my head back, close my eyes, and I'm asleep in 5 minutes. I don't feel what he's doing, and I don't move because I'm so zonked. Apparently, I'm his "quietest patient." 😀
Dentistry is overrated. I met a couple of MD/DDS professors at my med school who were not OMFS and had completely given up dentistry. Frankly, I find it to be the cephalad equivalent of doing a rectal exam all day, every day.
equivalent to being a urologist?
Last edited:
Although I'm just a pre-med, I thought about being a dentist. Honestly, I was only thinking about it for the hours and money, which from what I hear isn't worth hating your job over. I shadowed a bunch of dentists and it was the most boring **** ever.
a lot of physicians I know tell their kids to go into dental vs going to medicine. A lot of people coming out of med school said they wanted to do dentistry after bc of all the headaches.
who knows, a lot of times the grass is always greener on the other side.
Although you'll find very few dentists who envy their MD counterparts, while you frequently see the opposite.
Fascinating. If this question is related to the orifice from which you urinate, you should get that looked at.
equivalent of doing a rectal exam all day, every day.....
well figure who is doing the rectals all day every day colorectal, urology to name a couple
Which I'll never understand. I can, however, understand why there are so many angry dentists.
I was thinking more GI and General surgery. But at least those guys (GI/surgeons/uro) have fun procedures like scopes and OR cases. OTOH dentistry looks very boring to me.
Fair point, but because dentistry is a relatively straightforward profession with little to no surprises in what to expect and because medicine can only seem to be interpreted by people who've actually been to medical school...MD's would have a better perspective on how the careers compare.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Lol? How do you figure? A doctor who didn't go to dental school has just as little perspective on dentistry as a dentist who didn't go to medical school has on medicine.
I was referring to the practice of each, I guess I said "medical school" because it seems to be the starting point of the insane workload. With dentistry the schedule and day-to-day operations are pretty predictable, the stress is low, and the work is uninteresting compared to medicine (I'm guessing physicians would be able to comprehend issues that a dentist sees but not the other way around). But medicine is more variable than dentistry and that's why input from physicians would be informative.
wtf!!!!!!!!!! that's just for tuition and doesn't include living expenses??!!! GO TO A STATE SCHOOL PPL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, I believe that is total cost per year. But still, you gotta be friggin nuts to pay over $100k per year for school unless you are making bank when you graduate.
More power to them. Pretty sure I'd wanna shoot myself if I was a dentist.
And, I'd imagine if ObamaCare and Pelousy have anything to do with it, they'll see the old paycheck get docked. Can't be making too much money for a specialized skill when there are so many out there that don't work that need your service.
(1) "Have fun living on 40k or less a year" is a real condescending comment. Median household income in the US (that is, income of all wage earners in a household) is about 50k *pre-tax*. Assuming that's 30k or so post-tax, that means more than half the country (And certainly many of your patients) is living on far less than "40k or less" a year.
(2) Going back to the example, we have 300k debt+100k salary vs 50k per year and no debt. You contend that the latter is better.
100k salary=60k post-tax=40k net of loans. But you don't pay the loans off forever. For the sake of argument, assume you pay them off after 20 years.
50k salary=35k post tax.
Consider a 35 year career. For 25 years, you're earning 40k net of loans while the other guy is earning 35k--you're 5k better off over 25 years=125k. For the last ten years, you're earning 60k net of tax vs 35k-you're 25k better offx10yrs=250k.
So, in total, you're 250k+125k=375k better off.
Now, there's more to throw in here, such as calculating net present values and perhaps allowing the 50k guy an extra four years of earning (while you're in med school. As a resident, you're earning 50k too more or less, so that cancels out).
But at the end of the day, it's difficult to construct scenarios where the 100k+300k debt guy is worse off.
And furthermore, as things go, 100k is probably a low guesstimate of a physician's salary.
This thread has gone far downhill, and is out of the scope of this forum. Either get it back to the original topic (if you could do medicine over, would you?) or it will be closed. And please keep it civil. Thanks.
Just a reminder that some of us are from states that do not have state schools and do not have agreements with other states for tuition reduction.
Some states, like the one I live in now, have state schools, but the in-state tuitions are barely cheaper than out of state/private.
no idea how columbia is like that, they must give nice scholarships.
state schools where i am have tuition (IN STATE) of around 27k a yr. factor in all your housing, books, etc it is another 20k.
coming out of a state school puts you near 200k,
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Remember, this is my opinion.
Even as convoluted and unusually twisted my path has been to get this far; yes, yes I would.
I allowed myself the benefit of a doubt when I became a scrub tech/anesthesia tech in the military; the choice at that time was academic/PhD or MD. Call me a bit of a romantic, but I fell in love with surgery and anesthesiology as a tech. Even then, it filled me with a sense of satisfaction that at the end of the day I did something to someone to help. Even in clinical training, the instructors had to order me out of the room when the time came because I wanted to stay.
When a disability was found that cost me my uniform and my chance to graduate from USUHS, I was determined not to give up. I successfully transferred into another school and graduated with that disability well controlled.
When I got into internship and prelim PGY-2 surgery, I found something else that made me know I made the right choice: ultimate responsibility. Everything we do, everything the nurses and staff around us do to the patient, we in the end are responsible. When things hit the fan, everyone looks to us for the final decision. As silly and light hearted as I can be at times on the floor, I know that I have to be on top of my game when crises hit to care for the patient, because everyone will have to take their cues on how to act from my direction. The ego is checked, for me at least, by the fact that I could be wrong, or I could have missed something.
Is it scary? Oh, hell, yes. You are scared that every decision you make may be the wrong one. If it is, you have to be mature enough to take the blame. That is why our training is so long, why we aren't cut loose with just the basics of how to do one specialty. Because in the end we are responsible.
And you know what? I enjoy every second of it.
Is it worth the debt, the stress, the nights of wondering if I will ever make it, the stress of having to scramble for another residency in my chosen specialty when the deal fell through through no fault of my own? For me, it is worth every bit of angst that I ever felt; all of it fades away for when I am in the operating room. Even research, though interesting, to me is only marking time until I can get clinical again.
I know I have seen people miserable in their specialties, who don't think it is worth it anymore. I don't know if in the future that will be me, but at this point in time, I think it is worth every bit of it. To me, it is pointless to settle for a specialty that takes up most of your waking hours living and doing. Which is what drives me; it is why I am fighting like hell to get the specialty I want.
A job is something that you do to pay the bills. A career is job you fall in love with. I would say that I found a career in medicine, and more precisely, one of the specialties that revolve around the operating room.
EDIT to add: blogged this as well.
it seems like a lot of the Attendings on this (and the other, older) thread said 'yes' but a majority of the residents said 'no'. Is this significant in any way?
Actually, it is. Many residents I've interacted with have told me privately that they wish they had gone the dental route. I'm not just talking about a few disgruntled residents. I'm talking about at least half of my intern class.
they are only looking at dental in a way where dental has more control on time (that they hear).
sure money is good and hours are good RIGHT NOW, but that can always change. if you go into a field based on just money and lifestyle, you may get a rude awakening later on when you discover that the money is no longer there and the lifestyle is gone due to competition etc.
That second part is more applicable for certain medical specialties than for dentistry. Medical reimbursement rates will be cut long before anything is done about those for dental procedures.
But, you're right. Going into a field for money and lifestyle in such artificial market conditions makes no sense. An easy and lucrative specialty today might not be easy and lucrative tomorrow.
The worst part is debt, liability and boards, everything else is good.
no worries about the lifestyle?
LOVED this 🙂 very inspirational and it would be nice if everyone felt this way!
I am still a per-med and I have a long way to go.. and I cannot be more excited for my future but when I read forums like this, it makes me really doubtful on whether it's the right decision or not (even though I know it is).. just seeing SO MANY unhappy people! It's DEPRESSING. I had already given up a lot of things because of the career path I'm choosing. I just really hope I don't ever regret it or feel like "I wouldn't do it again".
Of course it is. Residency is fun/interesting moments scattered throughout a whole bunch of pain. It's not altogether surprising to me that people in the midst of it would wonder why the hell they signed up for it.
Once you establish yourself as an attending it's not some magical promised land, but (contingent upon personal choices) it can get better. This is not to say that it necessarily gets easier, but the cost/benefit ratio is certainly different for an attending than it is for a resident. That being the case, it would stand to reason that some people might go from questioning their decision in residency to at least being content as an attending.
sorry to add to the list of depressing stories, but i'm one of the ones that may not have done it again. i'm one of the ones who went into the medical field not knowing at all what it was like, and for the wrong reason: family pressure. medicine seemed like a cool career in high school, and i still think it is amazing, but i never stopped to think if i myself would love it before i was right in the thick of it.
i know intership is hard for everyone but for me it's rough in a way that i don't have some kind of drive to keep me going. i didn't have a personal reason or "love" to enter this field. my doubts started towards the end of 1st year med school and i was actually thinking of going a totally different route, but i stuck to it. i was hoping things would get better but i didn't find much change in how i felt, and now i find myself as an intern. i'm trying real hard to do my best and stay afloat, and keeping patient care as my priority. i like my program, it's not malignant at all. in fact maybe half the attendings trained here at one time or another and are really enthusiastic about teaching residents. i am still holding on to the hope that things will be different if i can get through residency. everyone says being an attending is a lot better, and even being pgy2 is different than an intern. but on difficult days, i do find myself wishing i had gotten out in med school.
i tried to look for like stories on this forum for insight or different perspectives. seems there are ppl who end up with the same feelings but for different reasons. most seem to be able to take it in stride because this is where they want to be. others are able to find a better fit in another specialty. i am not so sure about my future, but i am trying my best
if i had one advice to premeds or high school students, it would be that if you are doing it for other people and not for yourself, please think hard before finding yourself in a situation like mine.
i know intership is hard for everyone but for me it's rough in a way that i don't have some kind of drive to keep me going. i didn't have a personal reason or "love" to enter this field. my doubts started towards the end of 1st year med school and i was actually thinking of going a totally different route, but i stuck to it. i was hoping things would get better but i didn't find much change in how i felt, and now i find myself as an intern. i'm trying real hard to do my best and stay afloat, and keeping patient care as my priority. i like my program, it's not malignant at all. in fact maybe half the attendings trained here at one time or another and are really enthusiastic about teaching residents. i am still holding on to the hope that things will be different if i can get through residency. everyone says being an attending is a lot better, and even being pgy2 is different than an intern. but on difficult days, i do find myself wishing i had gotten out in med school.
i tried to look for like stories on this forum for insight or different perspectives. seems there are ppl who end up with the same feelings but for different reasons. most seem to be able to take it in stride because this is where they want to be. others are able to find a better fit in another specialty. i am not so sure about my future, but i am trying my best
if i had one advice to premeds or high school students, it would be that if you are doing it for other people and not for yourself, please think hard before finding yourself in a situation like mine.
Last edited:
No. I would not do it again. I kick myself all the time for not quitting earlier. Now I'm stuck. 😡😡😡
well i can tell you from personal experience that some physicians do it soley for ego.
one physician (without giving too much info away), walks around pontificating about all the thigns he is doing. if there is a problem he voices what HE DID to fix it. he will discuss how he thinks this other attending doesnt know what she is doing (i think she is quite good), etc etc.
it is quite clear he is very arrogant. he loves knowing that he makes decisions, has some sort of control, talks about it. he is also about 5'6" too. but maybe if you develop an ego problem you can learn to love it for that reason, yes bad reason but it could work.
or if you were getting laid at the hospital or for doing a stellar patient work up you would begin to love medicine.
Napoleonic complex ftw!
It happens at Seattle Grace all the time, why not your hospital too? 👍
I was so curious to know how the human body worked, and wanted to attend med school since 9th grade. BUT, I was afraid of debt (did med school as a single parent), so joined the military to get through. (Got married after med school...still married to the same very supportive guy, so that helped make the military easier to tolerate).
Now, I am 54. I have memories of the first Gulf War era, when they sent me to work with stealth pilots at Tonapah, NV. I was sent to Korea as the only doc in a tent city of 600, in March (we froze our butts off). Got to take care of Thunderbirds, a bit, at Nellis. Got assigned to an F-15 fighter squadron, and actually got paid to go out dogfighting over the bombing range, and also fly with the Agressors (who flew Soviet tactics back then). Got to live in Europe for 3 years.
I know HPSP nowadays is a lot different, and some shy away from doing the flight doc gig. But, another way to look at it is they will actually pay you to go up in jets, and it's a blast. People pay thousands of bucks per hour just for joyrides in fighter jets, but as a flight doc they pay YOU to fly every single week, and there are no joyrides (think 9.2 G's...nothing else like it!).
The military patients treat you with respect (I once had a Marine in the hospital, and he about yanked out his I.V. standing to attention / jumping up out of bed, when I rounded on him...he was very young, and thought that was expected of him!).
You participate in history, a little bit. We cleared troops going to Bosnia and Kosovo, and heard their stories after their deployments. You do some occupational med, for example, checking out work environments in places like "The Tomb", where the satellite imagery is analyzed (and get to go through the fun of getting a top secret clearance...not!).
I was able to try out civilian practice, including 2 1/2 years in the ER in Las Vegas, but I missed the comraderie of the service and later rejoined.
Downside was I didn't always have a physician supervisor (can you imagine being yanked around by a nurse or dentist who outranks you?...that was absurd. I was sent to "mishaps", after plane crashes, which can find you picking up pieces at a crash site in the middle of nowhere...lotsa paperwork too.
One commander I had called all of the docs in for an "I own your ass" lecture, because we weren't seeing enough patients (that was in a Primary Care clinic)...very demotivating. The docs created a monthly award called the I Own Your Ass trophy (a wooden donkey with the commander's initials on the rear end)...it was awarded to the doc who saw the least pts that month...mild rebellion...cruddy at the time but we survived, and now it's just a memory of how we paid a few dues.
I cannot imagine going 200k+ into debt for med school, then trying to save for my own kids' education, have a mortgage, and plan for retirement. Be sure to get disability insurance.
I am not saying the service is right for everyone...just give it some consideration. They do put you through a lot of stuff that's difficult, like getting gassed to check out your chem warfare gear, and qualifying with an M-16 rifle and 9 mm pistol, and C-4. I think they took out some of the pyrotechnics due to docs getting injured (I knew a Pediatric Cardiologist who burned his hand badly during one exercise taking a stupid hill), but there are battlefield med and combat casualty care courses they will put you through. They also shot goats, then had us work on them at ATLS (free trip to Germany/Landstuhl for that class). Got sent to Global Med training...interesting.
They trained us in escape and evasion, and what to do as a POW. Escape and evasion can come in handy during internship, if you are trying to get your work done...it's when they see you wandering the hall that they pile on more scut, right?! They sent us to survival training, including how to survive a water ejection (my parachute nearly drowned me).
I guess, to sum it up, the AF can add some variety to your life-experiences, some crappy things get dumped on you, but also some real adventures you would never experience any other route...and Uncle Sam gets to pay your tuition each year.
Now, I am 54. I have memories of the first Gulf War era, when they sent me to work with stealth pilots at Tonapah, NV. I was sent to Korea as the only doc in a tent city of 600, in March (we froze our butts off). Got to take care of Thunderbirds, a bit, at Nellis. Got assigned to an F-15 fighter squadron, and actually got paid to go out dogfighting over the bombing range, and also fly with the Agressors (who flew Soviet tactics back then). Got to live in Europe for 3 years.
I know HPSP nowadays is a lot different, and some shy away from doing the flight doc gig. But, another way to look at it is they will actually pay you to go up in jets, and it's a blast. People pay thousands of bucks per hour just for joyrides in fighter jets, but as a flight doc they pay YOU to fly every single week, and there are no joyrides (think 9.2 G's...nothing else like it!).
The military patients treat you with respect (I once had a Marine in the hospital, and he about yanked out his I.V. standing to attention / jumping up out of bed, when I rounded on him...he was very young, and thought that was expected of him!).
You participate in history, a little bit. We cleared troops going to Bosnia and Kosovo, and heard their stories after their deployments. You do some occupational med, for example, checking out work environments in places like "The Tomb", where the satellite imagery is analyzed (and get to go through the fun of getting a top secret clearance...not!).
I was able to try out civilian practice, including 2 1/2 years in the ER in Las Vegas, but I missed the comraderie of the service and later rejoined.
Downside was I didn't always have a physician supervisor (can you imagine being yanked around by a nurse or dentist who outranks you?...that was absurd. I was sent to "mishaps", after plane crashes, which can find you picking up pieces at a crash site in the middle of nowhere...lotsa paperwork too.
One commander I had called all of the docs in for an "I own your ass" lecture, because we weren't seeing enough patients (that was in a Primary Care clinic)...very demotivating. The docs created a monthly award called the I Own Your Ass trophy (a wooden donkey with the commander's initials on the rear end)...it was awarded to the doc who saw the least pts that month...mild rebellion...cruddy at the time but we survived, and now it's just a memory of how we paid a few dues.
I cannot imagine going 200k+ into debt for med school, then trying to save for my own kids' education, have a mortgage, and plan for retirement. Be sure to get disability insurance.
I am not saying the service is right for everyone...just give it some consideration. They do put you through a lot of stuff that's difficult, like getting gassed to check out your chem warfare gear, and qualifying with an M-16 rifle and 9 mm pistol, and C-4. I think they took out some of the pyrotechnics due to docs getting injured (I knew a Pediatric Cardiologist who burned his hand badly during one exercise taking a stupid hill), but there are battlefield med and combat casualty care courses they will put you through. They also shot goats, then had us work on them at ATLS (free trip to Germany/Landstuhl for that class). Got sent to Global Med training...interesting.
They trained us in escape and evasion, and what to do as a POW. Escape and evasion can come in handy during internship, if you are trying to get your work done...it's when they see you wandering the hall that they pile on more scut, right?! They sent us to survival training, including how to survive a water ejection (my parachute nearly drowned me).
I guess, to sum it up, the AF can add some variety to your life-experiences, some crappy things get dumped on you, but also some real adventures you would never experience any other route...and Uncle Sam gets to pay your tuition each year.
this is a great post. thank you for sharing that.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Yes, thank you for sharing that 🙂
Also, to the intern above for sharing about the struggles of med school and residency. I agree that it requires thought to try to know if medicine is right for YOU. There's no way to 100% know, but I would say that you have to like being in class A LOT, and studying, because it's a profession of lifelong learning. And there will be a lot of long working hours, thought that is decreasing some. It requires more commitment than a lot of other jobs/professions, in terms of your personal time. If you don't have some love for it, or some other strong motivation that drives you (not sure what that might be, but I guess for some people the money or the prestige, etc. might be enough to get them out of bed in the morning) I think that burnout or even giving up altogether can happen.
I'm bumping this because I'm also reconsidering whether to apply to med school or not.
I want the lifestyle of a dentist, but I like the nature of the work in medicine.
It seems to me that there's almost no way to have both unless I match into either rad onc, oral surgery, or derm.
If I become a dentist I'd be fine with fixing teeth, I wouldn't love it, but I would have a great lifestyle which would make up for that.
If I go into medicine, I'd love my job but I'd have a strained personal life (of course this is specialty-specific). I'm looking into neonatology, derm, gas, and rad onc.
With all these posts of current doctors/residents wishing they'd gone into dentistry, I'm becoming undecided and confused. I value my personal time as much as I value a rewarding work-life. I don't know what to do...I need some advice/opinions.
I want the lifestyle of a dentist, but I like the nature of the work in medicine.
It seems to me that there's almost no way to have both unless I match into either rad onc, oral surgery, or derm.
If I become a dentist I'd be fine with fixing teeth, I wouldn't love it, but I would have a great lifestyle which would make up for that.
If I go into medicine, I'd love my job but I'd have a strained personal life (of course this is specialty-specific). I'm looking into neonatology, derm, gas, and rad onc.
With all these posts of current doctors/residents wishing they'd gone into dentistry, I'm becoming undecided and confused. I value my personal time as much as I value a rewarding work-life. I don't know what to do...I need some advice/opinions.
Last edited:
I'd do it over, but I'd do many things differently. I'd take more business courses during college. I'd look for more opportunities to get involved in research and meaningful projects during medical school. I'd consider an entirely different specialty.
May i ask what specialty you chose? and knowing what you do now, what you would choose instead ?
i think the real question (for me at least) is if SDN is even a valid place to look for an answer to this question.
Clearly, a pre-med can survey a larger population of physicians on SDN compared to the real world, but does the discussion on here have any external validity? most of the people posting on here are residents; tired, over worked, underpaid, and not the least unbiased people to as the question to (oh...and it's anonymous and online too). Obviously many will be jaded during your training and say 'no' and others will be content and say 'yes'...so I'm a bit skeptical about the responses on here because I'm not sure if they're representative of physicians in general.
Can someone weigh in on if asking SDNers is even a meaningful thing to do? if not, how should one try to find out if medicine is a good fit for them? (beyond hours and hours of shadowing 🙄)
Clearly, a pre-med can survey a larger population of physicians on SDN compared to the real world, but does the discussion on here have any external validity? most of the people posting on here are residents; tired, over worked, underpaid, and not the least unbiased people to as the question to (oh...and it's anonymous and online too). Obviously many will be jaded during your training and say 'no' and others will be content and say 'yes'...so I'm a bit skeptical about the responses on here because I'm not sure if they're representative of physicians in general.
Can someone weigh in on if asking SDNers is even a meaningful thing to do? if not, how should one try to find out if medicine is a good fit for them? (beyond hours and hours of shadowing 🙄)
Similar threads
- Question
