IHS Pharmacy Residency Tips

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wiscokid93

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Hi all, I'm planning to apply to IHS residencies after I graduate. Does anyone have tips for my application process? Additionally, any idea if the start dates for these residencies are different from the typical ASHP match start dates?

Also trying to figure out pros and cons of being a civil servant vs. becoming a public health officer. I don't know if they will accept me for PHS but it's worth a shot.

Any advice is welcome, and thanks for your assistance.

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What year are you? Are you a US citizen? The start dates are standard except for those who go through PHS commissioning or have worked something out. There is a separate thread out there on the pros and cons of the uniform vs the civil service. Frankly, if you absolutely know you are going to make a long-term investment in the career, the uniform works out better, but it is a trap for those who are not going to be fully committed to service. But if you want an escape hatch or want to step down in your career, civil service is the preferred choice. Not to say that the PHS is going to get a choice given what is happening to them all...
 
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What year are you? Are you a US citizen? The start dates are standard except for those who go through PHS commissioning or have worked something out. There is a separate thread out there on the pros and cons of the uniform vs the civil service. Frankly, if you absolutely know you are going to make a long-term investment in the career, the uniform works out better, but it is a trap for those who are not going to be fully committed to service. But if you want an escape hatch or want to step down in your career, civil service is the preferred choice. Not to say that the PHS is going to get a choice given what is happening to them all...

I'm a fourth year pharmacy student and a US citizen. What thread should I look for to research more specific pros and cons of CS and PHS? Thanks for your feedback.
 
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@giga may be able to shed some guidance with first hand knowledge working in the USPHS system.

As for threads to search, you'll just have to use the search engine on the SDN portal (upper right magnifying glass) and type in pharmacy civil service or pharmacy Public Health Service (really anything to that degree) to see if any recent discussion of such has taken place.
 
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In terms of tips for the application process, my advice would be similar to applying to any residency:
- Go to ASHP midyear and interact with current residents and residency directors in programs you're interested in (IHS residency programs typically make an appearance at midyear). Be prepared with thoughtful questions that demonstrate that you've done your research on the programs, and you're not asking things you could easily look up online.
- Sign up for APPE rotations at IHS sites
- Have a CV and personal statement that highlights your commitment to service, public health, and working with diverse and underserved populations. It's a plus if you can demonstrate experience working with cultures different than your own and working in rural areas.
- Be professional in your interactions with everyone. In particular, keep in mind that there is a diversity of people that work for IHS for a diversity of reasons (e.g., they are natives themselves, they're bleeding heart liberals, they're religious conservatives who believe they are doing god's work, they like the locations and otherwise it's just a job that pays the bills, they thought it was the best way to pay back their loans, etc.). Avoid making any unnecessary assumptions about whoever you are talking with, and be mindful of who your audience might be when you write your personal statement. Basically what I'm trying to say is don't make generalizations about Native Americans or about IHS. This might be obvious to you already (and maybe you're even native yourself and here I am not taking my own advice and making an assumption that you're not), but you'd be surprised what some people think is okay to say.
Thank you @giga! I will keep all of this in mind. I'm basically applying to all IHS residencies so hopefully it works out for me. Your recommendation to check out that JOAG document was spot on - it hit a lot of the points I am considering for my pros/cons list.
 
Is there any veteran preference associated with VA or IHS residencies?
 
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Is there any veteran preference associated with VA or IHS residencies?

I cannot speak on IHS (@giga ) since I believe Native Americans are scored a bit higher on the priority list but I know the VA has a "basic-point" scale on preference for those with veteran status and veterans with disabilities. This is protected by Title 5 USC Section 2108

https://themilitarywallet.com/veterans-preference-points/

I can only assume doing a PGY-1 as a veteran would push you a bit closer to the top. The majority I had seen though went straight into the VA as a GS-11 (Now I believe you can walk in as a GS-12 depending on prior experience). GS-13 could be a possibility with a specialty as a clinical pharmacist with 3+ years experience. Also you do get a supplemental pay/differential for being a pharmacist plus an opportunity to buy-back time toward a pension with your prior military service. If for any reason you move from one federal pay scale to another on the opposite side of the country, you also have protection with pay-retention as described in 5 CFR 536.103


This is actually something I'm strongly interested in pursuing myself but a lot of changes + red tape have shown up since I left from the DOD side of the house. In the end, you do get preference as a veteran over an otherwise equally qualified applicant.
 
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Is there any veteran preference associated with VA or IHS residencies?


@BC_89 Your source is wrong for this position on legal grounds. The very area that this person cites has a bunch of exceptions, and VA and IHS have them and do use it.

No officially, yes unofficially. The requirement is No in VA for clinical positions, because of an exception that overrides Title 5 with respect to Title 38 selections for NTE and educational positions. For IHS which is Title 42, also no as the requirement, because of an exception in Title 42 and Title 48 that overrides Title 5 for selections that are not to uniform for a health profession. Again, veterans preference does not officially apply in these scenarios. They do apply to the fixed permanent positions in Title 42 and to Title 5 Hybrids with 38, 42, or 48 authority as a selection group can use (or in Title 48's case, is required to use preference).

Now, unofficially, even though it is not mandatory, the unofficial policy is that should a veteran apply and is NOT selected over similarly qualified candidates, HR for the agency and possibly the DoD gets involved with this at OPM. It is the usual practice that if a veteran meets the general requirements and is competitive (not necessarily the best), the residency position is to be offered to him or her on consideration. In practice, because there are so few veterans who do apply, their hiring for residencies is basically a matter of if they are not disqualified, they get hired. YMMV at some places, but that's the general stance even without official preference.

Also, the Title 38 and Title 42 authority may waive their own immunity from the requirement, and treat Veterans preference as part of the application. It has been my understanding that all VA Title 38's have waived their immunity from Title 5 Veterans Preference for the last five or so years for all Title 38 and hybrid permanent positions at the hospital (field), so in that case, they definitely will take official veterans preference. But again, they don't have to. Many of the technical, Regional (VISN and Region), and Headquarters (CO) positions do not waive their immunity and thus do not enforce veterans preference on the hire.

Now, for tribal hires, Title 48 actually overrides even Title 42, so if you happen to have tribal membership to a federally recognized degree, there are actually unusual hiring provisions in the Department of Interior and appeal rights. I have not heard of a nonhired Native American who was not specifically disqualified that had an unsuccessful appeal before OPM if they applied to the IHS. In other words, if the Native American was nominally qualified with the degree and license, had no professional discipline, and were not fired from their last job, and had the nominal experience to hold the job (meaning for the director position, there had to be previous supervisory experience), their only real competition was from other Native Americans. This is also a rare circumstance, but if the candidate happened to have the right demographics, I would consider it impossible for them not to be hired to the position even with far better competition. Also, a weird effect of Title 48 is that they are allowed to discriminate on a tribal membership basis. A benign example of this is that the hiring authority can actually require a candidate to speak Hopi or Dine ("Navajo") as a necessity for the Title 5 position, where that would be blatantly illegal in most other positions. There's less benign examples out there.

One other matter, Title 10 does not have preference for uniformed positions, that's taken care of by your service jacket for reappointment status. For civilian positions that are not LEO (Law Enforcement), STRL (Scientfic Technical), or DEHA (Defense Expedited Hiring), veterans preferences will apply. For STRL or DEHA, they have similar organization and execution to VA's Title 38. For the pharmacists appointed to LEO (mostly those in the Inspector General service or the Rocky Mountain Arsenal), that is handled by LEO but your pay and retirement is on the LEO scale and not the pharmacist one (basically, you're paid a grade lower than a pharmacist, but have a 20 year retirement policy with no MRA).

Also for the VA, GS-11 for pharmacists is eliminated. I thought the timetable to transition all positions is now complete, but there might be a couple of exceptions.
 
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@BC_89 Your source is wrong for this position on legal grounds. The very area that this person cites has a bunch of exceptions, and VA and IHS have them and do use it.

No officially, yes unofficially. The requirement is No in VA for clinical positions, because of an exception that overrides Title 5 with respect to Title 38 selections for NTE and educational positions. For IHS which is Title 42, also no as the requirement, because of an exception in Title 42 and Title 48 that overrides Title 5 for selections that are not to uniform for a health profession. Again, veterans preference does not officially apply in these scenarios. They do apply to the fixed permanent positions in Title 42 and to Title 5 Hybrids with 38, 42, or 48 authority as a selection group can use (or in Title 48's case, is required to use preference).

Now, unofficially, even though it is not mandatory, the unofficial policy is that should a veteran apply and is NOT selected over similarly qualified candidates, HR for the agency and possibly the DoD gets involved with this at OPM. It is the usual practice that if a veteran meets the general requirements and is competitive (not necessarily the best), the residency position is to be offered to him or her on consideration. In practice, because there are so few veterans who do apply, their hiring for residencies is basically a matter of if they are not disqualified, they get hired. YMMV at some places, but that's the general stance even without official preference.

Also, the Title 38 and Title 42 authority may waive their own immunity from the requirement, and treat Veterans preference as part of the application. It has been my understanding that all VA Title 38's have waived their immunity from Title 5 Veterans Preference for the last five or so years for all Title 38 and hybrid permanent positions at the hospital (field), so in that case, they definitely will take official veterans preference. But again, they don't have to. Many of the technical, Regional (VISN and Region), and Headquarters (CO) positions do not waive their immunity and thus do not enforce veterans preference on the hire.

Now, for tribal hires, Title 48 actually overrides even Title 42, so if you happen to have tribal membership to a federally recognized degree, there are actually unusual hiring provisions in the Department of Interior and appeal rights. I have not heard of a nonhired Native American who was not specifically disqualified that had an unsuccessful appeal before OPM if they applied to the IHS. In other words, if the Native American was nominally qualified with the degree and license, had no professional discipline, and were not fired from their last job, and had the nominal experience to hold the job (meaning for the director position, there had to be previous supervisory experience), their only real competition was from other Native Americans. This is also a rare circumstance, but if the candidate happened to have the right demographics, I would consider it impossible for them not to be hired to the position even with far better competition. Also, a weird effect of Title 48 is that they are allowed to discriminate on a tribal membership basis. A benign example of this is that the hiring authority can actually require a candidate to speak Hopi or Dine ("Navajo") as a necessity for the Title 5 position, where that would be blatantly illegal in most other positions. There's less benign examples out there.

One other matter, Title 10 does not have preference for uniformed positions, that's taken care of by your service jacket for reappointment status. For civilian positions that are not LEO (Law Enforcement), STRL (Scientfic Technical), or DEHA (Defense Expedited Hiring), veterans preferences will apply. For STRL or DEHA, they have similar organization and execution to VA's Title 38. For the pharmacists appointed to LEO (mostly those in the Inspector General service or the Rocky Mountain Arsenal), that is handled by LEO but your pay and retirement is on the LEO scale and not the pharmacist one (basically, you're paid a grade lower than a pharmacist, but have a 20 year retirement policy with no MRA).

Also for the VA, GS-11 for pharmacists is eliminated. I thought the timetable to transition all positions is now complete, but there might be a couple of exceptions.

Well, as I stand corrected I better take note of the Title Sections and statements lol
 
@lord999
I am a disabled army Veteran currently on my rotations at a VA hospital. I asked my residency program director about unofficial Veteran preferences for residencies. He didnt seem to have an idea regarding this. I was thinking of just applying to VA and IHS residencies but his answer kinda made me revaluate my stance. Rn I am thinking of applying to around 15 VA hospitals all over the country and most likely 5-8 IHS locations. Any suggestions will be higly appreciated.

p.s: I do have an year of research, plenty of volunteering experiences, will present a poster during midyear, and have most of my rotations at the VA.

Sigh, when you've seen one VA, you've seen one VA. That said, I believe you completely as depending on the VA, they may or may not respect the selection preference for veterans (because it is unofficial at this point). The good news is that you will have a hiring preference for the permanent positions, since current VHA orders from OHRM are to not take the veterans preference exemption that they can for Title 38 (unless they already know who they want to hire).
 
Another question to add to the thread... when do IHS residencies typically interview?
 
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