Im a n00b

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

JayMiranti

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Messages
147
Reaction score
0
Hey,

I just made the switch from MD to Dental, applying to only dental schools this year... I have yet to take the DAT, but I got a 28 on the MCAT, and I have a 3.6/3.4 GPA from U. rochester. ANd so I have some questions,

Do SAT scores matter for dental school?

How Hard is it to get into NYU or Columbia?

How hard is it to specialize? And what do you think are the best specialties?

Is there any website that shows dentist salary by specialty, and the number of years it takes to complete each specialty?

Thanks

Jay
 
1. SAT scores do not matter.

2. Relatively easy for NYU, Columbia is tougher, with DAT scores of 22+, you should get into Columbia. Study hard for PAT.

3. Depending on what specialty. Hardest are probably OMFS, Ortho, Endo. (Top 10 of graduating class, very good board scores). Easier: Pedo, Perio. (Top 15-20? of graduating class to make it in)

4. Haven't seen a decent representation of mean salaries for each specialty yet. Note: Don't pick a specialty based upon how much you make. Remember you're going to be in it for 20, 30, 40 years.

Ortho = 2 years, Endo = 2 years, OMFS = depends (6 years for MD/DDS/OMFS, 4 without MD, I believe. I could be wrong), Perio = 3 or 4? I forget.
 
Jay you wouldn't happen to be going into dental now cause your MCAT scores are low and you don't think you can get into med school?
 
have you ever applied to med school? if you did you will have one hell of a time getting into D-school. I know at the UF interview we started talking about med applicants and dent applicants (the guy they interviewed before me applied to both schools), they pretty much said he has no chance to get in at this school bec he was using dent as a back up.

If you never applied to med school, you are in good shape. Forget your med dreams and get dental experience, bec that will crucial in your case. You better like the work bec dentistry is nothing like medicine and why pick a job you will hate the rest of your life.

If medicine is for you and you do not think you will get in from your low MCAT score, apply to PA school. My gf did that and is very happy. She had a 28 MCAT and 3.7 GPA from UF and did not get into any med schools

good luck with which ever path you choose.

Oh yeah, I have a friend from undergrad with similar stats to yours and is now at an offshore med school and loves it there. try that route
 
freedyx3 said:
Jay you wouldn't happen to be going into dental now cause your MCAT scores are low and you don't think you can get into med school?

Freddy, a 28 is very close to marticulant in many states. I know many people with lower GPA's and MCATs that got in a lot of places

just chk out www.mdapplicants.com
 
crazytrain said:
Freddy, a 28 is very close to marticulant in many states. I know many people with lower GPA's and MCATs that got in a lot of places

just chk out www.mdapplicants.com

Agreed. I have plenty of friends from my undergrad who had <28 and are doing fine at various SUNY allopathic med schools here in New York.

For the OP, your GPA is pretty good. If you are from NY, you should also consider Buffalo & Stonybrook. If you are definitely set on dentistry, make sure you get lots of shadowing experience and can see yourself being happy as a general dentist, which is what 70 - 80% of dentists are. Getting into a specialty can be finnicky, and you have no way to predict how well you will do in dental school, especially since you are not even in yet. If you are looking at dentistry as a backdoor route to getting an MD through the 6-year OMS/MD specialty after you 4 years of dental school, then I would say stop now and reapply to med school. I'm not accusing you, but sometimes recent MD converts think that the OMS route will be easier to get the MD degree. Getting into OMS is tough, it would be much easier to strengthen your MD application and reapply.

General dentists can do all aspects of dentistry. They are not restricted by anything except their personal prefences and experience. A specialist is limited to only that field of dentistry and often handles the crazy cases the general dentist won't even touch (the psycho kids, the impossible root canal, the major case of snaggletooth, etc).

Time for specialties (ziptree was almost right):
Ortho: 2 to 3 years, depends on the program
Endo: 2 years
Pedo: 2 years
Perio 3 years
Prostho: 3 years
Oral Surgery: 4 year certificate program or 6 year combined certificate/MD program
Oral Pathology: 3 years
Oral Radiology & Public Health: I have no clue, these are the least pursued specialties
 
hey thanks for the replies...

no i am not planning on getting an MD degree though this, is that basically the difference between the 4 year certificate and the 6 year md combination for oral surgery?

ANd i did apply to medical school, but i really cant imagine that that just eliminates me from consideration. I dont plan to apply this year when i apply to dental schools. I have heard of many people who did this and are happy they did.

The fact that near 80% of graduates go into general dentistry kind of scares me though, i really was planning on specializing, how does that work is it like a match? and if you dont get in one year can you do something to improve your chances?

thanks for the help
jay
 
JayMiranti said:
ANd i did apply to medical school, but i really cant imagine that that just eliminates me from consideration. I dont plan to apply this year when i apply to dental schools

It doesn't eliminate you at all schools but you will still have a lot of explaining to do at the interview. Your GPA is good, so kill the DAT and get dental experience and apply to the right places. All I could say is stay away from UF dental bec what they told me they do not like med applicants switched to dent.
 
JayMiranti said:
hey thanks for the replies...

no i am not planning on getting an MD degree though this, is that basically the difference between the 4 year certificate and the 6 year md combination for oral surgery?

ANd i did apply to medical school, but i really cant imagine that that just eliminates me from consideration. I dont plan to apply this year when i apply to dental schools. I have heard of many people who did this and are happy they did.

The fact that near 80% of graduates go into general dentistry kind of scares me though, i really was planning on specializing, how does that work is it like a match? and if you dont get in one year can you do something to improve your chances?

thanks for the help
jay

Sounds like you are in it for the prestige and money, but general dentists can make a boatload of money ? Maybe it?s just me, but if you are choosing a healthcare field based on prestige, shoot for medicine, you?d ultimately be more happy. Taking a year or two off before you get into med school is nothing to be ashamed of.. I wouldn?t apply to dental school with out wholehardily being comfortable with the possibility of practicing general dentistry one day. Many students go into dental school wanting to be specialists, very few actually become them ..
 
you guys are a real ray of sunshine

you are all so much better than me for going into it for the right reasons, thanks for all the very helpful advice.
 
but uh.. for anyone who doesnt want to judge my motives to better themselves in their own mind....

Is there anything you can do to improve ones chances of specializing? LIke take a year off or something?

And can anyone tell me anything useful about the DAT vs. MCAT?

ANd what is the difference between the 4 year oral surgery prog. vs. the 6 ??
 
JayMiranti said:
Is there anything you can do to improve ones chances of specializing? LIke take a year off or something?

I think you should worry about getting into dental school first.
 
Sorry if I seemed jumpy. Have you shadowed with a dentist yet? We just get a lot of "ohh well I want to go to dental school and be an OMFS, get my MD in six years, and specialize if that doesn't workout, in something more lucrative... general dentistry...scoff..." You get the drift. A 28 MCAT is a pretty solid score, you'll do well on the DAT...shoot for 20's.
 
JRogoff is right, you need to get into dental school first. Everyone has their own reasons for going into dentistry, no one reason is more noble than the other, but there are a few things every newly accepted dental student has to accept:

1) You have to like teeth & the oral cavity. If you can't stand teeth, you will be miserable b/c part of our training is to learn about every nook & cranny of all 32 adult & 20 deciduous teeth in minute detail. No joke here. There is no way around this one to survive dental school.

2) You have to entertain the idea of liking general dentistry. Even if you get into a specialty program right out of school, you are going to dental school to train to be a general dentist, and for 2 years (3 at some schools) you will be treating patients in every discipline of general dentistry. You can't pick and choose your cases b/c you won't graduate if you don't meet all your requirements across all the disciplines (specialties/departments) in dental school. And plans to specialize don't always go as you might expect. In my case, for example, I had the stats but didn't get into my specialty of choice right after graduation for some reason. I will be doing general dentistry for the upcoming year and that is fine with me, b/c being a general dentist is quite an accomplishment and nothing to look down upon. Those guys are your main referral source if you are a specialist, you have to treat your general dentists well!

3) As balanced as you want your life to be, you will have to make some sacrifices at some point of your 4 years to make it through. Every student sacrifices in different ways, but it will not be strictly 9 - 5; labwork and study time is expected to come out of the hours outside of 9 - 5.

To answer your questions...

The difference b/w the 4 vs. 6 year oral surgery program is simple. The 6 year program integrates the 3rd & 4th years of a MD curriculum to award an MD degree in addition to the oral surgery certificate. The 4 year program leads only to the certificate, no MD degree is earned. Dentally, they are both trained to do the same procedures, however, the scope of practice might be broadened in some states if you have the MD (hospital privileges and things like that).

DAT vs. MCAT - there have been a few threads about this in this forum not too long ago. Run a search.

Specializing - depends on what specialty you want. Some specialties like endo & prostho are hesitant to taking people straight out of school b/c they want their residents to have work experience in those disciplines (either in a private practice or in a General Practice Residency - aka GPR - program) so they know they are making a sound choice in choosing that specialty. Some are number driven - Ortho is notorious for this. If you graduate at the bottom of your class, there is very little you can do for your chances of getting in besides being the offspring of the program director. Ortho is all about the numbers first, experience/interests second. Oral Surgery is fairly numbers driven as well, but there is a little more wiggle room than Ortho IMO. Especially if you take a year or two and do an oral surgery based GPR or oral surgery fellowship to demonstrate a true interest in the specialty. But you still have to have somewhat competitive numbers to get a look even with the added experience. Endo has recently become very competitive and is now also numbers driven, but there are many endo programs that won't even look at your application unless you have real world experience after dental school, even if you are #1 in your class. Pedo is also getting popular, but personality is very important for this specialty given the age group you will be working with. For more info on the match and stuff, go check out this thread in the dental forum: 2004 Match Results Thread

So the bottom line of what we're trying to say is you have no idea if you will be #1 or #85 in your class till you get accepted and go through your first year. And whether or not you will specialize will be determined by your class record, board scores, and interest in the specialty. The majority of dental students don't specialize b/c it's cool or it will make them a more prestigious practitioner; they do it b/c they have a demonstrated interest in limiting their practice of dentistry to that one specialty only.

We're not trying to discourage you, only encourage you to fully consider dentistry before making the commitment.
 
have u had any dental experience?
as far as i know, adcom probably wont like u much if u have very limited experience.
treat dentistry as the profession that u will enter for the rest of ur life.
dont go into any field, unless u think through.

with ur grade, it worths a shoot at the med sch this year. if that's really what u want (MD degree), then go for it. otherwise, please spend some time this summer to shadow many dentists.
 
wow thanks for the really helpful responses

you guys make good points and i know what you mean, but let me assure you, dentistry is in my family and it has always been something that I have seen myself doing, it is what led me to apply to med school in the first place, in hopes i would end up in some dentistry-like setting doing that kind of work, but i was just chasing the MD degree for the wrong reasons, and realize now that time goes by quickly and i might as well do what i want, because i realized many aspects of going through MD school are not what i am interested in doing..

As far as the specialty info, I am just trying to plan my career here by gathering all the info and seeing what I like best. I of course have no problem working as a general dentist, i am just seeing what the other options are, like i said im a noob, i have been in the pre-med scene all this time and i dont know all of this stuff. so thanks for the help, some more quesitons..

when is too late to take the dat/apply?

If I do poorly the first time on the dat, can i take it again the next day?

Is applying early key like in medical school?
 
Applying early is Key. You can only take the DAT every 90 days. If you want to apply this cycle, you need to take the DAT before Aug or durning Aug. In my opinion, applying in Aug is late, but many will rival that since they apply in Jan and get in.
 
Also might want to add that the AADSAS application has been available since May 17th for the entering class of 2009.
 
JayMiranti said:
As far as the specialty info, I am just trying to plan my career here by gathering all the info and seeing what I like best. I of course have no problem working as a general dentist, i am just seeing what the other options are, like i said im a noob, i have been in the pre-med scene all this time and i dont know all of this stuff. so thanks for the help, some more quesitons..


There is nothing wrong with asking questions here about specializing. There is nothing wrong with brainstorming/dreaming about what your future holds. But someone did make a good point above, you MUST go into dental school KNOWING that you would be happy as a general dentist IF things don't work out with specializing. That's all.

And I'm sure you know this, but I will tell you anyway: Suggesting in any way, shape, or form that you want to specialize in your interview is a sure fire way to get rejected at that school. I had a friend who was interviewed by an oral surgeon, and feels that she was rejected becasue she simply asked how hard it was to specialize in oral surgery. She said he ended the interview early, shortly after she asked that simple question.

So, ask your questions here, but make sure you don't at the interviews. Just some friendly advice.

critter.

By the way, welcome to the Dental Forums!!!
 
does going to a good school, like colombia say, increase your chances for specialty matching?

Are there any good jobs for a pre-dent for a year off that you guys can reccommend, i heard working as a dental assistant is a TON of work and little pay, so id just rather shadow in that case. ANy suggestions appreciated
 
JayMiranti said:
does going to a good school, like colombia say, increase your chances for specialty matching?

Are there any good jobs for a pre-dent for a year off that you guys can reccommend, i heard working as a dental assistant is a TON of work and little pay, so id just rather shadow in that case. ANy suggestions appreciated

I'd say that the only thing that increases your chances of specializing are getting good board scores and having a good GPA. There are also no "good" or "bad" dental schools. Going to a "good school" as you call it will not mean that you can have lower scores and still specialize. I would think that an applicant with higher scores from a lesser name school would match better than a person with lower scores and be comming from a big name school like Columbia. Point being, do worry where you go, just do the best you can and get 90+ on your boards.

As for your other question, anything in a dental office that you can put on your app should be fine. Its nice when you get paid at the same time, but sometimes these positions are hard to come by without expierence and/or training. Hope this helps!
 
I was previously pre-med and just made the switch to dental. I realized that I was just jumping on the medschool bandwagon. Only one person in the biology dept at my school was interested in dentistry. It is something that i have always been interested in, i just kinda let other people's comments get at me. I will be applying next year however, after i have shadowed a dentist for a reasonable amount of time. I am also attending a Post-bac program which will help with DAT prep.
 
hey welcome to the club.

since i first posted this i have become a fully converted pre-dent.

i know what u mean about the med school band wagon, in college sometimes, especially as a premed, it seems like dentistry isnt even an option. The common mindset was, If you are you good at math and science, then work as hard as you can to try to get into med school, no matter what the cost because once in, your set. And if you dont do it, you either didnt work hard enough or you are not smart enough. No one ever considers, do I want to go into this? Do i like these specialties? Where is the field going?

It was so funny. I remember at my interviews thinking one thing at each school.. "LET ME IN" thats it..getting in is the be all end all. i didnt care at all about the facitilities or the rep or location or whatever, i was literally prepared to move to OHIO for the MD degree, its a sickness that is hard to wake up from.
 
Jay..you sound like a smart kid with a really pretty girlfriend. Why don't you get off these damn boards and take her out on a date.

Camp Director
 
JayMiranti said:
hey welcome to the club.

since i first posted this i have become a fully converted pre-dent.

i know what u mean about the med school band wagon, in college sometimes, especially as a premed, it seems like dentistry isnt even an option. The common mindset was, If you are you good at math and science, then work as hard as you can to try to get into med school, no matter what the cost because once in, your set. And if you dont do it, you either didnt work hard enough or you are not smart enough. No one ever considers, do I want to go into this? Do i like these specialties? Where is the field going?

It was so funny. I remember at my interviews thinking one thing at each school.. "LET ME IN" thats it..getting in is the be all end all. i didnt care at all about the facitilities or the rep or location or whatever, i was literally prepared to move to OHIO for the MD degree, its a sickness that is hard to wake up from.
Just for the record, the Midwest isn't THAT horrible a place. 😀
 
Top