I'm disadvantaged, right?

[Didntdoit]

From AMCAS:

"I qualify for disadvantaged status for a number of reasons. As background, my parents are immigrants. My father wasn't around very much when I was a child which had a substantial impact on my mother's ability to maintain our house.

I was raised on the west side of Cleveland where our family income put us well below the poverty line. Indeed, my mother would take me and my sister to places like the library and local malls because she had trouble paying the gas bill. I also remember having to wear a jacket indoors during the winter to keep warm.

I attended private schools because my mother worked to ensure substantial financial aid for me and my sister. She sold raffle tickets, sold candy bars, and worked bingo to get me and my sister a discount to school. She also applied for the free lunch programs at school for us. Finally, my high school gave me a full, need-based scholarship. For college, almost all of my college tuition was covered by grants and scholarships with some loans because our estimated share of the costs was zero

I worked as soon as I could, so I could take care of myself. I shelved library books, mowed lawns, painted fences, and worked retail to contribute financially to the family. My family qualified for food stamps."

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[gettheleadout]

If you feel like your circumstances significantly hindered your ability to perform academically, then yes.

 

[PressPforPi]

You went to a private school?

 

[Didntdoit]

You went to a private school?

My mom is kick ass. I think it's pretty amazing what she pulled off with how little we had.

 

[gettheleadout]

You went to a private school?

Apparently, but on a full need-based scholarship for high school. I've known other to have done the same.

 

[PressPforPi]

My mom is kick ass. I think it's pretty amazing what she pulled off with how little we had.

I know how it is bro, believe me. I would say it's at your discretion in your situation.

 

[Bartelby]

Yes, based on my understanding of disadvantaged. I say if you received food stamps and faced problems paying for basic human needs (shelter with adequate heat) growing up that counts. I received food stamps, medicaid, etc growing up in a single parent family and everyone I spoke with on the interview trail accepted that as clear economic disadvantage.

As for proving it hurt you academically, how could anyone ever prove that (unless you grew up somewhere with no schools at all)? Just be able to intelligently converse about issues surrounding poverty and your own experiences (it will come up in interviews). Realize that med students who got their food courtesy of the government growing up are not all that common.

 

[Ursa]

I attended private schools

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just responding with my thoughts. When it comes to disadvantaged (AMCAS-wise), I assume they put a big emphasis on being disadvantaged education-wise (as opposed to not being able to buy name brand foods and what not). I am completely sympathetic to your situation, but I think that if you are thinking about educational opportunities, you probably were more advantaged than those of us who went to public school.
Just my $0.02

 

[UpperEastSide]

^ agree kinda. My family had money problems too, especially because i grew up with a single parent with no education, but i didn't even consider going for the disadvantaged label.

 

[cowme]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just responding with my thoughts. When it comes to disadvantaged (AMCAS-wise), I assume they put a big emphasis on being disadvantaged education-wise (as opposed to not being able to buy name brand foods and what not). I am completely sympathetic to your situation, but I think that if you are thinking about educational opportunities, you probably were more advantaged than those of us who went to public school.
Just my $0.02

BS. You are completely wrong in your assumption of disadvantaged status in AMCAS. What do you even mean by being disadvantaged education wise? Couldn't afford to go to a private high school or Princeton? This is not really a disadvantage.

If an interviewer asks you to explain why you said you were disadvantaged, what answer do you think would fly more?

Answer 1: My family was so poor that we qualified for food stamps, and we couldn't afford to pay for heat during the winter. I also had to take jobs in high school and college so that my family could survive.

Answer 2: I went to public school.

 

[UpperEastSide]

BS.

If an interviewer asks you to explain why you said you were disadvantaged, what answer do you think would fly more?

Answer 1: My family was so poor that we qualified for food stamps, and we couldn't afford to pay for heat during the winter.

Answer 2: I went to public school.

he means the fact he went to private school trumps the hardship. I went to private school too- and had full national merit scholarship to undergrad thus i don't feel disadvantaged.

 

[Ursa]

BS. You are completely wrong in your assumption of disadvantaged status in AMCAS.

If an interviewer asks you to explain why you said you were disadvantaged, what answer do you think would fly more?

Answer 1: My family was so poor that we qualified for food stamps, and we couldn't afford to pay for heat during the winter. I also had to take jobs in high school and college so that my family could survive.

Answer 2: I went to public school.

The point you tried to make there was addressed in my first post.
Nice apples and oranges comparison though.

EDIT: And nice selective bolding. I can do that too. ^^

 

[PressPforPi]

he means the fact he went to private school trumps the hardship. I went to private school too- and had full national merit scholarship to undergrad thus i don't feel disadvantaged.

I wish I would've went to a private school instead of a high school in the middle of podunk nowhere. Hell, I take that back, I would've been happy if the school would have at least had AP classes

 

[cowme]

The point you tried to make there was addressed in my first post.
Nice apples and oranges comparison though.

EDIT: And nice selective bolding. I can do that too. ^^

From the AAMC website

Disadvantaged Status

Disadvantaged status is self-determined and each medical school has their own policies for how they use this information.

To help determine if you are disadvantaged, click the How do I know if I should be considered disadvantaged? link, which displays the following information:

Underserved: Do you believe, based on your own experiences or the experiences of family and friends that the area in which you grew up was inadequately served by the available health care professionals? Were there enough physicians, nurses, hospitals, clinics, and other health care service providers?

Immediate Family: The Federal Government broadly defines "immediate family" as "spouse, parent, child, sibling, mother or father-in-law, son or daughter-in-law, or sister or brother-in-law, including step and adoptive relationships."

State and Federal Assistance Programs: These programs are specifically defined as "Means-Tested Programs" under which the individual, family, or household income and assets must be below specified thresholds. The sponsoring agencies then provide cash and non-cash assistance to eligible individuals, families, or households. Such programs include welfare benefit programs (federal, state, and local); Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC or ADC); unemployment compensation; General Assistance (GA); food stamps; Supplemental Security Income (SSI); Medicaid; housing assistance; or other federal, state, or local financial assistance programs.

Click the Yes button to be considered a disadvantaged applicant. A Disadvantaged Status form will appear. Questions marked with an asterisk (*) are required.




https://services.aamc.org/AMCAS2_2009/WebApp/Help/WebHelp/Disadvantaged_Status.htm

...Don't really see a word about education up there. Although if you grew up in an underserved area that lacked resources, I'm sure that could count under the underserved section

 

[SurfWaxAmerica]

I'm always confused about the disadvantaged thing as well [academically]. Parents are immigrants from El Salvador and Guatemala. I know that detail alone doesn't qualify me.

But, I grew up poor and went to bad inner city public schools and feel the structure they had there put me behind a few years. There was never a moment back then where I thought I was going to go past high school...I never even took the SATs nor know anyone who did. Nobody ever cared about education, it wasn't in the culture there, which I feel rubbed off on me at that time and I didn't care either, I just screwed around on the streets all the time, thats how it always was, from elementary to high school. Parents didn't know anything about school, everyone I knew was some kind of thug. I had to move 25 miles away and it took me almost 2 years of remedial classes at a community college to get my head on right.

Any thoughts?

 

[Avoidthetiger]

A good chunk (30-50%) of my high school were able to attend due to scholarships they received -- some from my school, most were from programs around my city (Very few of these scholarships were merit scholarships -- my school has a rep of accepting students that other schools wouldn't due to poor test scores, and still managing to get 99% of them into college).

These students received free or discounted lunches. None of my friends could afford going to the movies, out on the weekends, or just general fun. Even though these students were able to get a free education at a private school, they were still disadvantaged. They still had food stamps, they had money troubles, they worked to support their families, ect. OP, if you did got assistance, you were disadvantaged. I would include it on your application. Don't let the fact that you went to a private HS hold you back.

 

[Ursa]

From the AAMC website

Disadvantaged Status

Disadvantaged status is self-determined and each medical school has their own policies for how they use this information.

To help determine if you are disadvantaged, click the How do I know if I should be considered disadvantaged? link, which displays the following information:

Underserved: Do you believe, based on your own experiences or the experiences of family and friends that the area in which you grew up was inadequately served by the available health care professionals? Were there enough physicians, nurses, hospitals, clinics, and other health care service providers?

Immediate Family: The Federal Government broadly defines "immediate family" as "spouse, parent, child, sibling, mother or father-in-law, son or daughter-in-law, or sister or brother-in-law, including step and adoptive relationships."

State and Federal Assistance Programs: These programs are specifically defined as "Means-Tested Programs" under which the individual, family, or household income and assets must be below specified thresholds. The sponsoring agencies then provide cash and non-cash assistance to eligible individuals, families, or households. Such programs include welfare benefit programs (federal, state, and local); Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC or ADC); unemployment compensation; General Assistance (GA); food stamps; Supplemental Security Income (SSI); Medicaid; housing assistance; or other federal, state, or local financial assistance programs.

Click the Yes button to be considered a disadvantaged applicant. A Disadvantaged Status form will appear. Questions marked with an asterisk (*) are required.




https://services.aamc.org/AMCAS2_2009/WebApp/Help/WebHelp/Disadvantaged_Status.htm

...Don't really see a word about education up there

Nice copy and paste. Just think about the situation. It'll hit you in a minute. In the face. Hopefully.

 

[cowme]

Nice copy and paste. Just think about the situation. It'll hit you in a minute. In the face. Hopefully.

 

[Ursa]

Let me point out, to everyone, that in my first post I said the OP might have been more advantaged education-wise. Clearly we can all agree that a private school > public school. Clearly having to get food stamps or not having heat is disadvantaged.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Let me point out, to everyone, that in my first post I said the OP might have been more advantaged education-wise. Clearly we can all agree that a private school > public school. Clearly having to get food stamps or not having heat is disadvantaged.

Why is a private school automatically better than a public school? I know several public schools I would have LOVED to attend. Instead, my mom wanted me to get a good all-girl catholic education. The teachers weren't paid that well, but they did love to teach... well, except the ones that were just looking for a job. The school wasn't in the best shape. But it was a good school.

The OP might have had an education advantage-wise. She/he might have been provided free tutoring or other services because of her economic status (I know many people who were below poverty line that got free things -- and I was jealous because it was hard for me to afford a tutor). BUT if you go home and have a hard time studying, because your house is freezing or because you need to go get a job to help your mom pay the rent -- you still are disadvantaged.

edit: a quick easy read regarding how different each private school can be

 

[Ursa]

Why is a private school automatically better than a public school? I know several public schools I would have LOVED to attend. Instead, my mom wanted me to get a good all-girl catholic education. The teachers weren't paid that well, but they did love to teach... well, except the ones that were just looking for a job. The school wasn't in the best shape. But it was a good school.

Well I guess you have me there. I don't have any hard data to back this up. I thought it was safe to believe that most people think private > public. If you don't, no biggie. We all have our opinions.

edit: a quick easy read regarding how different each private school can be

EDIT: WEIRD! I was just reading this.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Well I guess you have me there. I don't have any hard data to back this up. I thought it was safe to believe that most people think private > public. If you don't, no biggie. We all have our opinions.

Maybe if the private school is $20/30k a year than I would expect it to be better than the public school... unless that public school is also in a rich area and has lots of resources.

If the private school is closer to $5-107k a year though... maybe it's better, maybe it isn't. It depends on what you are looking for. I wanted an academic challenge, applied to my city's magnet public HS, and didn't get in. The high school I didn't end up attending did not offer me nearly as much of an academic challenge as I hoped for, but I did well enough there.

edit: haha, that's crazy regarding the link.

edit2: Have you ever heard of the "Illinois Math and Science Academy (IMSA)." I got to college and like 13 people in my class went there. It sounds amazing and it's a public school.

 

[mauberley]

edit2: Have you ever heard of the "Illinois Math and Science Academy (IMSA)." I got to college and like 13 people in my class went there. It sounds amazing and it's a public school.

Nah, they're a bunch of nerds.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Nah, they're a bunch of nerds.

haha, but I'm a nerd!

 

[Ursa]

Nah, they're a bunch of nerds.

Let's be honest, we're all a bunch of nerds.

EDIT: Doh! Beat me.

 

[We So Excited]

Does disadvantaged status have any effect on your application? Do adcoms like/not like seeing it?

 

[Instant Noodles]

I'm not taking sides or anything but just glancing own the thread, post #12 is a low blow. Attacks like that never help.

@Didntdoit, I think you should be fine as long as you follow the AMCAS guidelines. Good luck with the application.

 

[gettheleadout]

Does disadvantaged status have any effect on your application? Do adcoms like/not like seeing it?

It adds further perspective to your application. If you went to an underfunded high school, had been working since age 14, were constantly changing homes, etc... and still were able to perform academically, it speaks more toward your determination and work ethic. If you performed poorly in your academics, then your disadvantage can help to explain it. I would be surprised if an admissions committee ever viewed an applicant being disadvantaged as a negative.

 

[Ursa]

I'm not taking sides or anything but just glancing own the thread, post #12 is a low blow. Attacks like that never help.

@Didntdoit, I think you should be fine as long as you follow the AMCAS guidelines. Good luck with the application.

I feel like it's also not the best practice to take things out of context and spin them. Just me though.

-Billy O'Reilly NoSpinZone

 

[Darwinism]

Your mom couldn't pay for heat, but she sent you to private school? Could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard

 

[Long Way to Go]

Your mom couldn't pay for heat, but she sent you to private school? Could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard

 

[hiyaman]

I don't really understand the argument for being disadvantaged education wise? Even if you were able to attend a private school and technically had all the resources at school to succeed, your personal circumstances at home could have very well hindered all the positives of going to a private school. If you were too busy working to help support your family it could hinder your education.

 

[cowme]

I feel like it's also not the best practice to take things out of context and spin them. Just me though.

-Billy O'Reilly NoSpinZone

A) I didn't take it out of context purposefully, I skimmed and misunderstood your post
B) I could care less about what some pre med says, in fact, I find it pretty hilarious how offended you got.

 

[Didntdoit]

or a Republican.

I guess you did cover them with "very stupid."

 

[Didntdoit]

If the private school is closer to $5-107k a year though... maybe it's better, maybe it isn't. It depends on what you are looking for. I wanted an academic challenge, applied to my city's magnet public HS, and didn't get in. The high school I didn't end up attending did not offer me nearly as much of an academic challenge as I hoped for, but I did well enough there.
/QUOTE]

That's my grade school.

I got a good scholarship to a great high school in my city.

 

[Didntdoit]

I'm always confused about the disadvantaged thing as well [academically]. Parents are immigrants from El Salvador and Guatemala. I know that detail alone doesn't qualify me.

But, I grew up poor and went to bad inner city public schools and feel the structure they had there put me behind a few years. There was never a moment back then where I thought I was going to go past high school...I never even took the SATs nor know anyone who did. Nobody ever cared about education, it wasn't in the culture there, which I feel rubbed off on me at that time and I didn't care either, I just screwed around on the streets all the time, thats how it always was, from elementary to high school. Parents didn't know anything about school, everyone I knew was some kind of thug. I had to move 25 miles away and it took me almost 2 years of remedial classes at a community college to get my head on right.

Any thoughts?

Hey, I'm from Central America too.

 

[Didntdoit]

I don't really understand the argument for being disadvantaged education wise? Even if you were able to attend a private school and technically had all the resources at school to succeed, your personal circumstances at home could have very well hindered all the positives of going to a private school. If you were too busy working to help support your family it could hinder your education.

And having to assume family responsibilities earlier than wealthier children would have to.

 

[quepatho]

Realize that med students who got their food courtesy of the government growing up are not all that common.

True story. From everything I've seen and read it seems like approximately >25% of any given medical school class can pay the cost of med school out of pocket. (Or at any rate, their family can).

 

[estradiol9]

... Does it even matter anymore if we think we are "disadvantaged"? I thought the new application doesn't have this check box option anymore and that we're now simply required to provide information about our parents and etc.

 

[bookfreak89]

... Does it even matter anymore if we think we are "disadvantaged"? I thought the new application doesn't have this check box option anymore and that we're now simply required to provide information about our parents and etc.

No. Disadvantage box and 'explain why you think you are disadvantaged' space are still there.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Let me point out, to everyone, that in my first post I said the OP might have been more advantaged education-wise. Clearly we can all agree that a private school > public school. Clearly having to get food stamps or not having heat is disadvantaged.

No, not so clearly. There are some ****ty private schools out there, and some great public ones. I attended a public HS that offered 25 AP classes. I know plenty of private schools that offer NONE. That's only one standard to measure with, but there are many more reasons.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Is Ursa a troll

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Yeah the disadvantaged label on the app is more of a self-identifier with obvious clues as to the validity of the claim. I was not sure if I should put it myself since I managed to remain in a school zone with a very good public high school, but I also grew up at poverty level and helped pay bills with my own income. I ended up putting it, and explaining in detail. If the fact that I went to a decent high school "cancels out" my family's financial background, then that's fine. As long as someone is not trying to BS them I doubt it would reflect negatively. If you think you were disadvantaged then describe your situation, if you're that uncomfortable with it, then don't.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

all of this discussion is moot anyway, as i recall the new amcas does not allow for self-identifying disadvantaged status. rather, the schools (amcas?) will make the determination based on the information you enter.

 

[LizzyM]

all of this discussion is moot anyway, as i recall the new amcas does not allow for self-identifying disadvantaged status. rather, the schools (amcas?) will make the determination based on the information you enter.

That's what I thought but I was wrong . Everyone is asked to answer the questions and then those who check the box "disadvantaged" can provide a brief explanation of the disadvantage.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

That's what I thought but I was wrong . Everyone is asked to answer the questions and then those who check the box "disadvantaged" can provide a brief explanation of the disadvantage.

does not compute

 

[DrLeon]

As someone that actually marked the disadvantaged box and qualifies for the Scholarships for Disadvantaged Students program I feel that you have a legitimate claim to do the same. Like you I attended a private grade school, but my mother had to work overtime nearly every night of the week just to stay slightly behind all of the bills. I had to babysit my younger siblings at 10 years old sometimes until late at night when she would come home from work. My family took a tun for the worse and at one point we ended up homeless. We ended up having to go to public schools for the rest of our academic careers. The fact that you attended school because of the sheer determination of your family speaks volumes. 9/10 of the people in similar situations would not make it to medical school and that is what disadvantaged status is for.

 

[bajastapler]

^
lot of trolling on this thread ...

but anyways, as another student from a socio-economically disadvantaged background I agree w/ the above statement

 

[mTOR]

Let me point out, to everyone, that in my first post I said the OP might have been more advantaged education-wise. Clearly we can all agree that a private school > public school. Clearly having to get food stamps or not having heat is disadvantaged.

Ursa's point should not be so easily dismissed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ultimate argument being made here is that, ideally, the type of socioeconomic disadvantage that should be taken into consideration the most by adcoms are those which pose a significant risk to adversely affecting academic trajectories.

Having an extremely high concentration of the 5-10 census tract measures that go into quantifying neighborhood disadvantage, for instance, would likely qualify as such a risk:

(note the authors focused on black children in this study because in the Chicago neighborhoods they sampled African-American children are exposed in such disproportionate numbers to concentrated disadvantage that white and Latino children cannot be reliably compared)

On that note, for those who care, the research aims of the above paper didn't include elucidating possible mediating mechanisms (as they acknowledge) but they did briefly address some of the hypotheses:

We posit that neighborhood residence influences cognitive ability in several ways.

First, observational data suggest that neighborhood poverty is associated with the inconsistency of maternal parenting practices within the home (5, 6), and the strongest findings based on a randomized voucher experiment in the Moving to Opportunity (MTO) program (7) show that moving to neighborhoods with relatively low poverty rates has a substantial positive impact on caregivers’ mental health. Hence, there are plausible theoretical reasons to hypothesize that neighborhood disadvantage constrains parental practices and the family environment ‘‘under the roof’’ (8), which may in turn bear on cognitive achievement.

Second, because funding of public schools in America is geographically determined, the quality of the school environment is often directly linked to a family’s residential location.

Third, living in a deeply segregated social and ethnic environment may restrict the speech community to which parents and children are exposed, thus limiting access to academic English. The latter is a potentially key ingredient of success in school and later in the labor market (9, 10) and is measured on tests of verbal ability.

Fourth, and perhaps most important, because of widespread distrust, fear of violence, and isolating physical landscapes (11), severely disadvantaged communities are likely to inhibit speech communication in varied public contexts. A recent body of research has argued for the importance of ‘‘communication infrastructures’’ in the production of civic engagement (12, 13). Independent evidence also suggests that concentrated disadvantage and violence are directly linked to fewer reciprocated exchanges among neighbors outside of the immediate family (14, 15), which implies a restricted range of public verbal interactions and communication infrastructures that children are exposed to as models for learning. The stress of violence in the community in particular may lead parents to isolate themselves out of fear, leading to a restriction in the sorts of social networks and reciprocated exchanges that serve as the building block of social support mechanisms, language development and social skills in verbal encounters. Children’s verbal ability and growth potential are thus hypothesized to be diminished by cumulative neighborhood disadvantage.

Generally I tend to agree with all of that. But by focusing narrowly on the parenting practices or on school quality (which neighborhood quality affects), I don't think the cited hypotheses fully address how these environments impact the academic-trajectory-relevant social psychology of children raised within it. IMO, the most profound and enduring effect can be best explained by Judith Rich Harris's Group Socialization Theory model. Using this model, one can see how the pervasive neighborhood social disorganization and sociocultural isolation (via community-wide economic disadvantage) can dramatically alter a child's peer-group culture to be completely devoid of valuing academic engagement and completely detached from the scholastic environment. It also explains why this is particularly the case if the child's neighborhood peer group and the child's at-school peer group are one in the same (as would occur with your zoned local public school).

Via the lens of GS theory, it is no surprise that public high schools serving communities with high levels of concentrated disadvantage constitute the vast majority of the 1 in 10 schools in the US labeled a "drop out factory".

[YOUTUBE]9tetlOkOAgM[/YOUTUBE]

Now that, IMO, is true disadvantage. Making it through such a school requires you to maintain a level of academic engagement that is not only completely alien your peer culture, during your formative years where group-belonging and peer influence is at it's max, but is also alien to your entire school.

Back to Ursa's point, that is something you simply don't experience by going to a private school (or a good public school, for that matter).

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Now that, IMO, is true disadvantage. Making it through such a school requires you to maintain a level of academic engagement that is not only completely alien your peer culture, during your formative years where group-belonging and peer influence is at it's max, but is also alien to your entire school.

Back to Ursa's point, that is something you simply don't experience by going to a private school (or a good public school, for that matter).

I apologize in advance because i didn't read all of the above. But I believe an individual who attends a private school or even a good public school, but still travels home to a neighborhood where they question why you travel so far for school or why you value education so much -- might discourage you... it takes inner strength that keeps you going. I had a good friend in HS who did indeed travel an hour to and then an hour back via public transportation every day to come to my school. She went home to a neighborhood where gun shots and gang violence was common. She continued to make the effort to come to my school.

Additionally, while my school encouraged graduation and continuation to college -- many of the students there did no respect the education and often discussed dropping out, not wanting to study, hating the teachers, ect (atleast the first two years i remember them complaining constantly -- they to came from neighborhoods like the one described in the above publication). My school only had 1 or 2 AP courses, and while we offered the IB program, the same 25% or so students took these classes. Not every one was a high achiever.

While I agree with you, in an inner city public school, there will be more of a desire to drop out and not succeed academically -- you can also experience this from your same community or from the peers you decide to associate yourself with at a private school. Just because one goes to a private school, does not mean one is not disadvantage -- it just means that their family or themself encouraged education. If they didn't, I don't imagine anyone of a disadvantage background would be seeking a career in medicine.

edit: Watched the video above. One part that stuck with me was the homeless guy. One girl I know did go through a period of homelessness. She was a ward of the state that got in a fight with the man watching over here and left. She had issues at school, but she still came. We had 2 wards of the state in my grade level - both had support from the state to attend.

Tl;dr: There are people that go to private schools that come from the above described disadvantaged neighborhoods. While many public schools may indeed be of poor quality then private schools this does not mean that all private schools > public schools AND that the attendence of private school does not mean you don't have "disadvantage status"