I'm disturbed, and I'm going to be sick...

[Poety]

Ok, so yes yes yes, I go on Limewire to download music, I PAYED for it - anyway, I'm on there, and I was thinking about that recommendation for the movie "Sylvia" so I say, well let me type that in and see if I can find a trailer for it.

I type it in, and about 7K hits come up for "Sylvia" I'm like UGG its porn, and as I was just about to switch out of that screen and try a different search, I see "Pedofillia" (spelled LIKE THAT) and next to "9 year old Sylvia does daddy..." I just can't type the rest I'm so sick over this.

Now, what I want to know is why isn't there more being done about this? I could almost cry thinking that some little girl was video taped for someone sick and twisted bastards enjoyment.

I may be sensitive to this right now, especially since yesterday I called the police to report a suspicious vehicle - and the lady called me back from dispatch and said "It was supposedly a man with his child doing "homework" on the computer" I said "IN THE CAR? AT 9PM AT NIGHT BEHIND MY HOUSE IN A DARK UNLIT AREA??" So, I'm very very sensitive to this issue since I'm convinced that person had bad intentions.

Anyway, there should be some tracking system or something in order to get people that even have that stuff on their computer arrested - seriously. I'm so grossed out I dont' know what to do

---

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[OldPsychDoc]

Ok, so yes yes yes, I go on Limewire to download music, I PAYED for it - anyway, I'm on there, and I was thinking about that recommendation for the movie "Sylvia" so I say, well let me type that in and see if I can find a trailer for it.

I type it in, and about 7K hits come up for "Sylvia" I'm like UGG its porn, and as I was just about to switch out of that screen and try a different search, I see "Pedofillia" (spelled LIKE THAT) and next to "9 year old Sylvia does daddy..." I just can't type the rest I'm so sick over this.

Now, what I want to know is why isn't there more being done about this? I could almost cry thinking that some little girl was video taped for someone sick and twisted bastards enjoyment.

I may be sensitive to this right now, especially since yesterday I called the police to report a suspicious vehicle - and the lady called me back from dispatch and said "It was supposedly a man with his child doing "homework" on the computer" I said "IN THE CAR? AT 9PM AT NIGHT BEHIND MY HOUSE IN A DARK UNLIT AREA??" So, I'm very very sensitive to this issue since I'm convinced that person had bad intentions.

Anyway, there should be some tracking system or something in order to get people that even have that stuff on their computer arrested - seriously. I'm so grossed out I dont' know what to do

Next time go via imdb.com.

Welcome to the trade. If a week goes by where I'm not p****d off about something that someone has done to someone else, then I'm either on vacation (without my kids--who treat each other like s**t) or I have numbed myself to (hu)man's inhumanitiy to (hu)man....

Sorry you had to deal with that. Consider it training.

 

[Psyclops]

Wait unitl you have a patient come to you about their problem. The catalyst for seeking treatment having been caught by a family member.

This is a serious question. Do you think you can take a cold clinical approach to it?

 

[Poety]

Wait unitl you have a patient come to you about their problem. The catalyst for seeking treatment having been caught by a family member.

This is a serious question. Do you think you can take a cold clinical approach to it?

Gosh what an excellent question and one I've struggled with A LOT. I do NOT know how I'm going to handle the person that comes and says "I haven't done it yet, but I plan on it" or "I have these thoughts" or .... "I've touched my son/daughter" I undrestand reporting it, for the safety blah blah, but how am I ever going to stop that gutteral reaction to hit them? TO beat them within an inch of their life, especially God forbid, I've met the child.

OPD, how are we trained in this stuff?

 

[Psyclops]

I've had it it happen. I had a client walk in a tell me that they had been sexually abusing a family member. It was tough. We, by that I mean those in the MH business, are not in the role of enforcers of these laws. But as to the moreal question? Is there one?

 

[Poety]

I've had it it happen. I had a client walk in a tell me that they had been sexually abusing a family member. It was tough. We, by that I mean those in the MH business, are not in the role of enforcers of these laws. But as to the moreal question? Is there one?

I'm watching Oprah right now with Teri Hatcher on there that was abused by her uncle. I can't even believe the freaked out fear you get as a parent of someone doing that to your own child.

In all honesty I worry about EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE from pastors to her uncles to my father - I mean you just never know. And being in this business, you see what people can really be like. Since I'm a believer that this behavior can't be reformed, it makes it worse knowing they just keep doing it over and over and over ugg.

 

[vesper9]

I've had it it happen. I had a client walk in a tell me that they had been sexually abusing a family member. It was tough. We, by that I mean those in the MH business, are not in the role of enforcers of these laws. But as to the moreal question? Is there one?

if your client told you they were sexually abusing a minor (or a minor tells you they've been sexually abused) you are REQUIRED to notify the police

 

[Psyclops]

if your client told you they were sexually abusing a minor (or a minor tells you they've been sexually abused) you are REQUIRED to notify the police

The sky is also blue. I find myself insulted that you didn't assume that 1) I was aware of my mandated reporter status. 2) that I did it immediately following the interview. I know we disagree from time to time V9 but give me some credit.

 

[Psyclops]

I'm watching Oprah right now with Teri Hatcher on there that was abused by her uncle. I can't even believe the freaked out fear you get as a parent of someone doing that to your own child.

In all honesty I worry about EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE from pastors to her uncles to my father - I mean you just never know. And being in this business, you see what people can really be like. Since I'm a believer that this behavior can't be reformed, it makes it worse knowing they just keep doing it over and over and over ugg.

I couldn't imagine. I have younger siblings, but no children. Needless to say it is a very strange position to be in, as a suposedly non-judgemental treatment provider, dealing with what are generally assumed to be some of the most depraved and despicable acts.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I couldn't imagine. I have younger siblings, but no children. Needless to say it is a very strange position to be in, as a suposedly non-judgemental treatment provider, dealing with what are generally assumed to be some of the most depraved and despicable acts.

Fortunately, most of our patients are more likely to be victims of abuses of various kinds than the perpetrators. On those rare occasions when we get a bad one (worst I've had so far is vehicular manslaughter secondary to DUI, and he at least was remorseful and engaging in treatment voluntarily) all we can do is our duty to warn, where that is still possible, in order to make sure that no further harm occurs. We don't have to condone the abuser's behavior in order to work with them for treatment, and we can attempt to hold them accountable as well. I think this is where it REALLY helps (as with severe borderlines, addicts, etc.) that psych is multidisciplinary--you can mobilize other members of a team to assist you.

 

[Psyclops]

Fortunately, most of our patients are more likely to be victims of abuses of various kinds than the perpetrators. On those rare occasions when we get a bad one (worst I've had so far is vehicular manslaughter secondary to DUI, and he at least was remorseful and engaging in treatment voluntarily) all we can do is our duty to warn, where that is still possible, in order to make sure that no further harm occurs. We don't have to condone the abuser's behavior in order to work with them for treatment, and we can attempt to hold them accountable as well. I think this is where it REALLY helps (as with severe borderlines, addicts, etc.) that psych is multidisciplinary--you can mobilize other members of a team to assist you.

It sounds funny when you put it like that. And I agree that we don't have to condone the behavior, of course. It is certainly difficult to treat those whose behavior seems to be a choice that they made. I'm thinking also about some of the other examples you have used BPD, CDs, etc.

 

[Antigone]

I had a patient who had sexually abused children multiple times, and had checked himself in because he feared he would do it again. He himself had been sexually abused as a child, and he had had multiple SA's due to both dealing with his own past and in trying to prevent harming more children by killing himself. Working with him was difficult at first, but in time I found I was able to have a great deal of empathy and a good therapeutic relationship with him. I will always wonder what happened to him.

 

[Psyclops]

I had a patient who had sexually abused children multiple times, and had checked himself in because he feared he would do it again. He himself had been sexually abused as a child, and he had had multiple SA's due to both dealing with his own past and in trying to prevent harming more children by killing himself. Working with him was difficult at first, but in time I found I was able to have a great deal of empathy and a good therapeutic relationship with him. I will always wonder what happened to him.

I think it is important to remember there are those tortured by their desires. It can be tough to reconcile the fact that they exist with those who lack remorse for the same actions.

 

[50960]

Most people have biases that prevent them from treating certain patients adequately. As a child psych I will not treat a child molester. As Poety says, I could not be objective AKA: I could not get over my urge to beat the ****e out of them. FYI, ****e is scottish for Sh(eye)t.

 

[i61164]

On a related note, do MH professionals have a lot of emotionally charged encounters with patients? Do you need to be somewhat stoic to be cut-out for this type of work? I came up with these questions this afternoon while my 3 year old daughter was crying her eyes out because we forgot to bring one of her toys in the car with us. My wife tried to console her repeatedly and she just kept crying. I found myself having some kind of internal adverse reaction to the crying. Her crying was getting me upset at first and then I started feeling annoyed. For a minute I really felt like pulling the car over because it was tough to concentrate on driving. That's when I wondered how I would deal with a patient that was crying uncontrollably.

 

[Psyclops]

On a related note, do MH professionals have a lot of emotionally charged encounters with patients? Do you need to be somewhat stoic to be cut-out for this type of work? I came up with these questions this afternoon while my 3 year old daughter was crying her eyes out because we forgot to bring one of her toys in the car with us. My wife tried to console her repeatedly and she just kept crying. I found myself having some kind of internal adverse reaction to the crying. Her crying was getting me upset at first and then I started feeling annoyed. For a minute I really felt like pulling the car over because it was tough to concentrate on driving. That's when I wondered how I would deal with a patient that was crying uncontrollably.

I could be wrong but, I don't think you were annoyed by her crying so much as why she was crying. The same holds with patients. Often times it's not the specific behaviors so much as why.

 

[Poety]

On a related note, do MH professionals have a lot of emotionally charged encounters with patients? Do you need to be somewhat stoic to be cut-out for this type of work? I came up with these questions this afternoon while my 3 year old daughter was crying her eyes out because we forgot to bring one of her toys in the car with us. My wife tried to console her repeatedly and she just kept crying. I found myself having some kind of internal adverse reaction to the crying. Her crying was getting me upset at first and then I started feeling annoyed. For a minute I really felt like pulling the car over because it was tough to concentrate on driving. That's when I wondered how I would deal with a patient that was crying uncontrollably.

I always thought you were a woman, SORRY!

Anyway, patients can definitely be annoying. Don't expect to be able to be stoic about everything. For instance, nothing annoys me more than borderlines - seriously, actually, lets make that PD's in general And yet, I'm ALWAYS on the good side of the split <cringes>

I think you'll find some patients you like more than others, while others you just can't wait to go away. But for child molesters - no way, I know I'm going to have to go through some training just to encounter them since I KNOW FOR SURE I could not treat them - at all, whether they were abused or not, theres that thing in my head that says "but YOU KNOW YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO DO IT AND YOU DID IT ANYWAY YOU DIRTY FLIPPING SOB CREEP FREAK THAT JUST WANTED TO SATISFY YOUR OWN SICK TWISTED BASTARD A;LSDKFJ;SJF;ASJDFLKJSDF;JAS;FJAS;LKJF;ALJDF;LAKFUVCIDK"

see? I rage when it comes to child molesters <sigh>

 

[Triathlon]

On a related note, do MH professionals have a lot of emotionally charged encounters with patients? Do you need to be somewhat stoic to be cut-out for this type of work? I came up with these questions this afternoon while my 3 year old daughter was crying her eyes out because we forgot to bring one of her toys in the car with us. My wife tried to console her repeatedly and she just kept crying. I found myself having some kind of internal adverse reaction to the crying. Her crying was getting me upset at first and then I started feeling annoyed. For a minute I really felt like pulling the car over because it was tough to concentrate on driving. That's when I wondered how I would deal with a patient that was crying uncontrollably.

Maybe it is just because she is your daughter. I almost passed out watching my wife get an IV placed, but I have never had a problem sticking others or watching the most bloody gore filled surgery. Or maybe you will be affected, just wait and see.

 

[NittanyLion302]

I could be wrong but, I don't think you were annoyed by her crying so much as why she was crying. The same holds with patients. Often times it's not the specific behaviors so much as why.

that's the most fascinating part, the everpresent question, "Why?"

 

[OldPsychDoc]

It sounds funny when you put it like that. And I agree that we don't have to condone the behavior, of course. It is certainly difficult to treat those whose behavior seems to be a choice that they made. I'm thinking also about some of the other examples you have used BPD, CDs, etc.

It's no different in medicine (CAD and DM in an obese patient who won't quit smoking) or surgery (drunk drivers and the "kinfe and gun club"). We will always have to come to terms with our feelings about treating the people whose own choices and actions contributed to their condition.

 

[pschmom1]

What is really sickening, is that the more vocal and open people have become with this topic, the more and more you hear about it happening! It is almost turning into the norm. Can you imagine if in 10yrs teens or young adults get together and compare molestation stories? It's unfortunately not that far fetched. I just don't understand it, nor do I have any idea how I will possibly ever deal with a sick piece of s**t that has done it. Ya know what is really SICK, there are people on this board reading this right now that HAVE molested a child or have sick fascinations of molesting a child and that, unfortunately,is a FACT!!!!! This will be one of the last things I worry about learning throughout any of my schooling and I don't care what my job description is. My first job description is a mother and that is final!!!! What may be will be. I don't need to have a good rap with the "pedophile association" to be a good psychiatrist or person. I have a duty to the helpless children who have no voice before I ever do to some sick son of a B***H!!!!!! Pedophiles will be the first referred elsewhere and I could care less what anybody thinks of it. They do NOT and will NOT change!!!! Hell, have ya seen the 30 Datelines on child predators? I have to excuse myself to puke now!

 

[Poety]

What is really sickening, is that the more vocal and open people have become with this topic, the more and more you hear about it happening! It is almost turning into the norm. Can you imagine if in 10yrs teens or young adults get together and compare molestation stories? It's unfortunately not that far fetched. I just don't understand it, nor do I have any idea how I will possibly ever deal with a sick piece of s**t that has done it. Ya know what is really SICK, there are people on this board reading this right now that HAVE molested a child or have sick fascinations of molesting a child and that, unfortunately,is a FACT!!!!! This will be one of the last things I worry about learning throughout any of my schooling and I don't care what my job description is. My first job description is a mother and that is final!!!! What may be will be. I don't need to have a good rap with the "pedophile association" to be a good psychiatrist or person. I have a duty to the helpless children who have no voice before I ever do to some sick son of a B***H!!!!!! Pedophiles will be the first referred elsewhere and I could care less what anybody thinks of it. They do NOT and will NOT change!!!! Hell, have ya seen the 30 Datelines on child predators? I have to excuse myself to puke now!

And the psychosis is contagious I see (meaning mine spreading to pschmom) Its ok, honestly, I get all revved up like that too - I really need to control my rage but I can't - OPD HOW DO YOU DO IT?

 

[Psyclops]

What is really sickening, is that the more vocal and open people have become with this topic, the more and more you hear about it happening! It is almost turning into the norm. Can you imagine if in 10yrs teens or young adults get together and compare molestation stories? It's unfortunately not that far fetched.

Wait until you run a group session with adolescent females. It's just like you say. It's astounding. Although I must say, with this type of horrible thing, you need to balance the media reports. WHat I'm saying is, while it is good that it is now in the open and being addressed, and it is shoking how often it does happen, it can seem like it is the norm, and I don't think it is. It is the same with abductions and terrible news grabbing stories like that.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

And the psychosis is contagious I see (meaning mine spreading to pschmom) Its ok, honestly, I get all revved up like that too - I really need to control my rage but I can't - OPD HOW DO YOU DO IT?

1) I'm a midwestern male of northern European descent. I can't help it, it's in my genes.

2) I lock the door behind me when I leave work.

 

[manc]

One of my preceptors spends a half day each week with child molesters. I heard him one day talking with great disgust about a patient that had told him that the little girl seduced him. I asked him how he does it. He told me that the offenders are going to get back into society and that he knows that he is good at treating them. He told me he does it, not necessarily to help the offenders, but to help children, by perhaps preventing the patient from committing the offense again. That's how he squares it in his head. Maybe its like sewage work.

I have no data to cite, but to my knowledge the recidivism rate is extremely high for pedophiles. I wonder how successful my preceptor was...

Anyone see The Woodsman? Its a good movie about a pedophile (Kevin Bacon). Not difficult to watch like I was expecting.

 

[Poety]

One of my preceptors spends a half day each week with child molesters. I heard him one day talking with great disgust about a patient that had told him that the little girl seduced him. I asked him how he does it. He told me that the offenders are going to get back into society and that he knows that he is good at treating them. He told me he does it, not necessarily to help the offenders, but to help children, by perhaps preventing the patient from committing the offense again. That's how he squares it in his head. Maybe its like sewage work.

I have no data to cite, but to my knowledge the recidivism rate is extremely high for pedophiles. I wonder how successful my preceptor was...

Anyone see The Woodsman? Its a good movie about a pedophile (Kevin Bacon). Not difficult to watch like I was expecting.

According to my mentor, a forensice guy who goes to the prisons to keep these bastards in jail: Recidivism is 100%, the data says 89% (or something outrageously high like that) because the others weren't CAUGHT YET. He said you just can't change what people are instinctually attracted to. Its like telling a heterosexual to become gay - it CAN'T be done.

Ugg I'm staying away from that movie - thanks

 

[asculapius]

I had my first patient with pedophilia last year. The patient was a repeat offender and was convicted for child molestation twice. He was seen for purposes of stabilization.. Prior to the interview, I felt very nervous, hoping and praying to find the compassion in me to be able to assess and treat this patient fairly. What I found very relieving during the process and duration that he was under my care was to focus on the disorder rather than the person. I know that, especially in our field, trying to separate the person from the illness is almost impossible. Where I worked at that time, was acute care, therefore, the objective was stabilization. That made it easier. Once I focused on the disorder and the distress that it caused the patient, I started to feel some sort of compassion which relieved me and faciliated the intervention.

http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/50/3/349

 

[Psyclops]

He said you just can't change what people are instinctually attracted to. Its like telling a heterosexual to become gay - it CAN'T be done.

You know something I was thinking about, this would assume that pedophiles are merely attracted to children, much like homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex, and heteros to the opostie sex, etc. But you know, I don't think that people who abuse children are motivated primarily by sexual feelings. If it were so chemical castration would work, but it doesn't.

 

[Milo]

Pedophilia is a treatable disorder, and there is treatment that is 100% effective with 0% recidivisim.

lifetime incarceration.

 

[Poety]

Pedophilia is a treatable disorder, and there is treatment that is 100% effective with 0% recidivisim.

lifetime incarceration.

I hate to say this, and not to start a flame, but if you noticed, on that dateline NBC, it was only psychologists that would even bother treating these bastards - yeah they're bastards, yeah they succumb to their sick f'lupped up way of wanting gratification even though THEY KNOW ITS WRONG so I don't want to hear some sorry crap about how they can be helped and how you felt compassion for them and their sick way - give me a break, is there not a line where you start being a human instead of just a therapist?

This pathetic psychologist on there was saying how he 'treated' them and how 'he helped them' which to me is sick in and of itself - why would you even wanna hear those kinda stories?

I mean seriously -there is SOMETHING to be said for gutteral reactions, I wouldn't really be proud to be one of those that could "treat" (which you CANNOT DO AMEN MILO) these people. And I also don't buy its a "disorder" thing - theres something wrong with the wiring there, nothing is gunna fix it, so get rid of em - end of story.

 

[Psyclops]

I hate to say this, and not to start a flame, but if you noticed, on that dateline NBC, it was only psychologists that would even bother treating these bastards - yeah they're bastards, yeah they succumb to their sick f'lupped up way of wanting gratification even though THEY KNOW ITS WRONG so I don't want to hear some sorry crap about how they can be helped and how you felt compassion for them and their sick way - give me a break, is there not a line where you start being a human instead of just a therapist?

This pathetic psychologist on there was saying how he 'treated' them and how 'he helped them' which to me is sick in and of itself - why would you even wanna hear those kinda stories?

I mean seriously -there is SOMETHING to be said for gutteral reactions, I wouldn't really be proud to be one of those that could "treat" (which you CANNOT DO AMEN MILO) these people. And I also don't buy its a "disorder" thing - theres something wrong with the wiring there, nothing is gunna fix it, so get rid of em - end of story.

I'm inclined to agree with you. But don't make this a psychologist/psychiatrist thing because of some dateline show you saw. The ApA still sees fit to call it a diagnosable disorder. And it wasn't that long ago that people were saying the same thing about the gays.

I appreciate your frustration, but if there is something wrong with the wiring wouldn't that make you more understanding, not less? If it is a wiring thing, how is this different than homosexuality or anxiety d/o?

 

[Psyclops]

That whole bio basis of behavior thing is a double edged sword. If you expect these people to make the right decision, then ADHD kids should just stop being hyper, tourettes patients should stop with the outbursts. Which is fine with me.

 

[Milo]

I'm inclined to agree with you. But don't make this a psychologist/psychiatrist thing because of some dateline show you saw. The ApA still sees fit to call it a diagnosable disorder. And it wasn't that long ago that people were saying the same thing about the gays.

I appreciate your frustration, but if there is something wrong with the wiring wouldn't that make you more understanding, not less? If it is a wiring thing, how is this different than homosexuality or anxiety d/o?

That's why the semantics of this is important in my opinion. It is a psychiatric disorder. There is a diagnosis and there is a treatment, and just as for ASPD implementation of the prescribed treatment is carried out by law enforcement agencies.

Offering talk therapy as a treatment for this psychiatric condition is akin to doling out Xanax for alcohol dependence or Paxil for manic episodes. Talk Therapy is not treatment for pedophilia.

As far as this being a psychologist or psychiatrist thing I wasn't aware one way or the other. I would just hope we can all work together to give each and every pedophile the most effective treatment possible. They certainly merit the best treatment options that we have available.

 

[Antigone]

The patient who I had had initially had sexual feelings toward children who were the same age as he was when he was abused. It is as if he was slow to mature beyond the age at which he was mentally damaged--like there was an insult at a critical stage in his development.

Pedophilia is definitely a disorder, and hopefully it will be more successfully treated some day. His attractions were involuntary and it caused him significant distress because he knew from experience it was wrong to have these feelings and hurtful. I was able to work with him and have compassion by thinking about both the child he was who was hurt and the adult who was haunted daily by both the past and present as a consequence.

 

[Poety]

The patient who I had had initially had sexual feelings toward children who were the same age as he was when he was abused. It is as if he was slow to mature beyond the age at which he was mentally damaged--like there was an insult at a critical stage in his development.

Pedophilia is definitely a disorder, and hopefully it will be more successfully treated some day. His attractions were involuntary and it caused him significant distress because he knew from experience it was wrong to have these feelings and hurtful. I was able to work with him and have compassion by thinking about both the child he was who was hurt and the adult who was haunted daily by both the past and present as a consequence.

I seriously could never do that... seriously.

I think the thought is a disorder, but I don't think there is treatment. I in this sense, I definitely think its akin to being able to stop impulses when you know the consequences, but you choose NOT to. This isn't like ADHD at all, not even in the same ball park Psy. come on now.

 

[Antigone]

Pedophilia is a treatable disorder, and there is treatment that is 100% effective with 0% recidivisim.

lifetime incarceration.

Well the act is prevented, but the thoughts continue, unfortunately. The pedophile is likely to get raped in jail too, once his crime is discovered. I don't think anyone deserves that, regardless of the heinousness of the crime.

 

[Antigone]

I seriously could never do that... seriously.

Honestly, I never would have thought I'd have compassion, either, before having experienced working with a patient. Especially since I love children so much; I am strongly considering child psych.

 

[Poety]

Honestly, I never would have thought I'd have compassion, either, before having experienced working with a patient. Especially since I love children so much; I am strongly considering child psych.

I just don't even see how someone can have understanding or compassion for an adult that does a crime knowing its wrong and ruins someone elses life in the process. Perhaps I've worked too much with victims - but I'll tell you what, the damn perpetrators have MORE RIGHTS than victims do which makes me even sicker.

I realize I get heated talking about this, but I think there are some things people SHOULD feel passionate about - its a shame we can actually push some of that stuff aside and give these people rights.

I think most people that are able to withstand dealing with these people aren't parents themselves- they'll see one day just how instinctual protecting children becomes.

Antigone, in all reality I think there are some people that don't deserve treatment, and child molesters and pedophiles are at the top of that list for me - sorry to be blunt about it, but thats how I feel and I'm not ashamed of it at all. I'm definitely not the bleeding heart liberal that lets these scumbags out of jail saying they're reformed Yeah ok buddy, then let them move in next to YOUR kids

 

[Milo]

some people that don't deserve treatment

Once again, they do deserve treatment. We have treatment for them and we should help all pedophiles get treatment, they do deserve it.

 

[50960]

Poety, I agree 100% with you. This is not a treatable disorder with talk or meds (aside from some brain anomalies like kluver-bucy etc). I have published on this and spoken to many professionals (MD, PhD), and all agree that no Tx is effective to reduce the desire.

 

[Psyclops]

Look, on some levels I agree with you Poety, psisci, milo. And I understand the desire to end these folks, especially if it is your family that they have hurt. And I have worked with mostly with whom they have hurt, only twice meeting patients who admitted to abusing others. One I don't know what happened to, the other commited suicide after he left our facility.

But, I think it's important to conisder what you are saying, and the distinctions you are making. You say that it is ok to have certain mental disorders and not others. It is ok to have uncontrollable inpulsivity as long as that doesn't affect children. Then it becomes a moral issue?

Please tell me how you distinguish between someone who is attacted to children as opposed to a homosexual or a heterosexual who both like adults?

I mentioned above, I don't think this is always (usally) about sexual desire, I think other processes are underlying it.

The atitudes you have are admirable. I look for those attitudes in my law enforcement agents. I expect the effort at understanding, and striving for treatment from my mental health professionals.

 

[Antigone]

The atitudes you have are admirable. I look for those attitudes in my law enforcement agents. I expect the effort at understanding, and striving for treatment from my mental health professionals.

Well said.

Re: other elements coming into play, I think that besides a biological element ("wiring;" and I do believe pedophilia is a definitely a disorder distinguishable from normal variants of sexual orientation like hetero or homosexuality), there is also a subconscious element of power vs. powerlessness involved. For those who were abused themselves as children, it may be about having the power this time around rather than being the victim. For those who were not abused, it may be about assuaging feelings of inadequacy or insecurity in adult sexual relationships.

 

[Psyclops]

Well said.

Re: other elements coming into play, I think that besides a biological element ("wiring;" and I do believe pedophilia is a definitely a disorder distinguishable from normal variants of sexual orientation like hetero or homosexuality), there is also a subconscious element of power vs. powerlessness involved. For those who were abused themselves as children, it may be about having the power this time around rather than being the victim. For those who were not abused, it may be about assuaging feelings of inadequacy or insecurity in adult sexual relationships.

I also think other elements come into play most of the time, but I think it is important to remember that our conceptions of what is normal, or a disorder, or even right and wrong can drastically change.

I could imagine that some might just be wired to be pedophiles, thats just what turns them on, making the anlogy to hetero-homo perfectly valid. In which case I would also imagine that they are able to control thier behavior.

But in most cases, I don't think, as you point out, the sexual gratification is the chief motivator. Which is why a chemically decreased libido isn't effective.

 

[Antigone]

But in most cases, I don't think, as you point out, the sexual gratification is the chief motivator. Which is why a chemically decreased libido isn't effective.

Well, I didn't say pedophilia is ONLY about sex (which it's definitely not). The percentages of motivation due to attraction/sex versus not probably vary from individual to individual. I believe that the thought-side of pedophilia for some is a biologically-based proclivity that feels no less natural than homo- or heterosexuality. Lack of impulse control, libido, and secondary gain are what increase the likelihood that this proclivity will be acted on. Chemical castration is probably more effective in preventing the act in those with a greater proportion of attraction driving them and less of the secondary gain. But since the motivations are, of course, not purely the sexual act, there will continue to be a need to strive for effective therapy or other treatment.

On a personal note, I feel like I've had enough of discussing this, because as Poety the OP started with, "I'm disturbed, and I'm going to be sick." Pedophilia is tragic, on all sides of the issue.

 

[Psyclops]

Sorry, I meant you that you pointed out that it wasn't about sex.

 

[Poety]

I really can't respond in this thread anymore because here again, what I'm seeing is people defending pedophiles and whatever "disorder" you want to call it and its making me sick. Whats making me sicker is that these are people in the mental health field. Quit making excuses for this behavior and see it for what it is, I mean seriously - or better yet, have some kids THEN COME TALK TO ME. Let me tell you something too, if anyone ever touched my kid because of this so called "disorder" you better bet your ass I'm going to jail because I wouldn't think TWICE about taking a shotgun to their head - think I'm kidding? See that avatar? Yeah, I'd die for her.


I think thats half the reason why people think psychs are crazy - I mean who even WANTS to understand this kinda shyt? seriously - and yet theres this discussion going on and on about oh well is it this, and oh well is it that - THE FACT IS THEY'RE CHILD MOLESTERS PEOPLE GET OVER IT - LOOK AT THE FLUCKING CRIME NEVERMIND THIS SHYT ABOUT DISORDER OR NOT- this is what makes me really disgusted with psychiatry - this whole bit about "oh, its a disorder, everyone deserves treatment, they're sick, we need to help them" GET OVER IT, YOU'RE A DOCTOR NOT FLUCKING GOD

I'm sorry, this has really touched a nerve with me and I can't respond to this thread anymore so I'm staying out of it. At this point I'm already brewing at a couple of people that I normally enjoy bantering back and forth with.

ETA: In all seriousness, I feel so passionately about this that if most people in psych feel this way, I would leave the field forever, without ever looking back and become a surgeon in a heartbeat, if I thought ANY of my colleagues thought like a couple of the responses here, I would (in ALL SERIOUSNESS) wonder if they had pedophile type thoughts themselves and would be disgusted that they could be around them, and would (and I'm not saying I wouldn't either because I would) leave my program- thats how serious I feel about this.

I think whats bothering me the most is all this shyt about "oh poor abused person, lets help them, oh i feel compassion, oh they deserve help" REALLY? well, I don't want those kind of people working along side of me and you really shouldn't be a doctor if you have no morals and you can excuse every behavior out there and explain it away with a disorder .... PERIOD.

Thats it, I'm out. <flaming>

 

[Psyclops]

Poety,
In all sincerety, I think you mistook the nature of my posts and my opinion, and I didn't take the time to really go in depth. I for the most part feel the way you do about child abusers, or sexual abusers of any type really. For the most part I was playing DA. And clearly this is a sesitive issue. But, at this point, I see the issue in some shades of grey. The intention of my posts were to provoke some thought, not change minds. I'm sorry if they offended you. I do think that at some day you will run into an abuser at some point. It can't hurt to think about it dritically before hand.

 

[Solideliquid]

Let me first say this. I don't really know where I am on this issue. Well I know that I'm not as extreme as Poety is.

Anecdote: When I was doing my psych core, a patient came in to the office and we were told under no circumstances was any student to interview this patient let alone enter the room. We all assumed he was deeply psychotic and wondered why he was here and not in a locked unit. Over lunch our attending sat down with us to discuss the case. Turns out this guy had gone to jail for molesting a child of 8yrs (age). For the last year he has been coming in once a month for med/checks and he was doing therapy elsewhere.

If anything, when I'm in private practice I MAY see these indivduals. Look at it this way poety, even if you are disgusted, I see it as the psychiatrist protecting the community. Who better than us to monitor for any impending urges/criminal activity and report this to the authorities. We are much better than the system already in place. Just my .02

 

[50960]

Poety, You are a honarary member of my "no more BS" , and "antiultrarelativism" club. You are right on this point and all the d o gooders, and PC freaks who challenge you are out of line.

 

[Solideliquid]

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