IM fellowship

[re8]

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How competitive is to get in to IM fellowship program in the Navy? Is there any chance at all to go straight after residency?
I looked the GME website and there are only limited positions in each subspeciality.

How about the chance to do straight IM residency after fellowship? Do you think there is a chance like FM?
Thank you

 

[backrow]

Yes it is possible to go straight through IM internship -> Residency -> Fellowship.

I've seen pretty much every fellowship have a person go straight through all the way. There are tons of variables in the situation, but I would say maybe 2 out of the original ~20 interns at a Navy IM program will have that happen.

For it to work you most likely need to be a strong applicant and have good board scores to get the straight through IM slot (not really, but it will help) and then do well in residency and then apply to a fellowship that doesn't have a lot of applicants that year for whatever reason. If a prior GMO or a current staff is applying for that same fellowship slot they will have almost certainly get it over someone who went straight through (they will have a chance for 5pts more on their score sheet)

 

[re8]

Thank you so much for your response. I also wondering if you give me some info regarding IM residency after internship. There are about 32 residency spots and 52 interns every year. When I ask most IM interns they don't want to do IM residency. They just want to do GMO and apply something else. If that is true, do you think it is easy to get in to IM residency after internship?

Thnk you so much again

 

[Gastrapathy]

Its been 50/50 for IM interns to go straight-through the last few years.

Fellowship is less predictable.

 

[backrow]

Its been 50/50 for IM interns to go straight-through the last few years.

Fellowship is less predictable.

+1

going straight through is entirely dependent on how many are coming back from the fleet. They start with around ~20 interns at each program I think, and keep around 10 or so for each resident class. So...if 10 people wanted to come back from the fleet (highly, highly unlikely) it'd be tough for anyone to go straight through.

 

[DrMetal]

+1

going straight through is entirely dependent on how many are coming back from the fleet. They start with around ~20 interns at each program I think, and keep around 10 or so for each resident class. So...if 10 people wanted to come back from the fleet (highly, highly unlikely) it'd be tough for anyone to go straight through.

If you get selected to go straight through, can you negotiate to give up that PGY2 training spot, for the GMO of your choice?

For instance, say i get selected to go straight through, but I really wanna do a ship tour. Can I volunteer for a GMO, on the condition that it's a blue billet, not green?

 

[backrow]

If you get selected to go straight through, can you negotiate to give up that PGY2 training spot, for the GMO of your choice?

For instance, say i get selected to go straight through, but I really wanna do a ship tour. Can I volunteer for a GMO, on the condition that it's a blue billet, not green?

Not really. They are separate detailers with differing needs.

You can decline your straight through slot to do GMO if you want, but it won't guarantee you a certain GMO billet. They have enough people for the ships, they wouldn't really have any incentive for that deal.

Wouldn't work for a flight surgery or UMO billet either because those aren't determined until the very end of the course.

 

[DrMetal]

Not really. They are separate detailers

This i didnt know. Got it, thanks.

 

[Gastrapathy]

This i didnt know. Got it, thanks.

Don't ever apply for GME you don't want. PDs are elephants.

 

[SPQR]

If you get selected to go straight through, can you negotiate to give up that PGY2 training spot, for the GMO of your choice?

For instance, say i get selected to go straight through, but I really wanna do a ship tour. Can I volunteer for a GMO, on the condition that it's a blue billet, not green?

One of my fellow former IM intern was offered a spot to go straight thru and he turned down the program director's offer. Both of us ended up spending 2 awesome years with the fleet as Surface GMOs. So yes..you can turn it down.

Also, My GMO detailer wanted to push me to be with the Green-side..i told him "NO". I then asked around and found an opening surface GMO billet...then I called the detailer back and told him that "XXXXX is going to be open." and that was how I got my GMO assignment.

 

[DrMetal]

Don't ever apply for GME you don't want. PDs are elephants.

Yeah, you're right. I was just wondering if one could use a PGY2 slot as a bargaining chip to get a sweet GMO, especialy if it was a slot that could be obtained again later (like IM or Peds). Plus if the program had a substantial alternate list, you'd know that someone would pick up your slot, it wouldn't go vacant (i'm sure all Navy GME has a substantial alternate list!)

But after further thought, and given what backrow posted above, it's probably not a good idea to negotiate this way. Or least, dont be surprised when you don't the get the GMO of your choice.

One of my fellow former IM intern was offered a spot to go straight thru and he turned down the program director's offer. Both of us ended up spending 2 awesome years with the fleet as Surface GMOs. So yes..you can turn it down.

Also, My GMO detailer wanted to push me to be with the Green-side..i told him "NO". I then asked around and found an opening surface GMO billet...then I called the detailer back and told him that "XXXXX is going to be open." and that was how I got my GMO assignment.

Alright, so it worked out for you. But you might've just had good timing. Suppose there weren't any vacating ship billets, or suppose they were all spoken for. Then you would've had to go green.

Or another scenario: Suppose the detailer "promises" you a ship billet. You give up your PGY2 slot, it goes to a very happy alternate. Suppose a female JMO comes along, and now the detailer has to place both of you (suppose the detailer knew of her all along and didn't say anything to you, b/c he wanted you to commit 🙂). The detailer can't send her to the 3rd LAR, so he places her on the ship, and sends you to the desert.

Morale of the story is ...it's ok to have a preference for GMO, but be ready for the alternatives, don't be surpirsed if you dont get your first choice.

 

[SPQR]

Agree... nothing is guaranteed in the Navy and always prepare to get screwed. But you can maximize your chance of getting the GMO job you want by being proactive in your career progression.

For Ships: shipboard SMO/GMO rotate on a 2 year cycle. As an AD Navy MC officer, it is relatively easy for you to find out their PRD (rotation date). (Note that some of these billets have been converted to FP slots.) That should give yourself a rough idea of your changes of getting a shipboard assignment. Also, it would be wise to find out about the operational status of the ship that you desire. Did it get the Green H/Blue M award over the past year, was the previous CO "fired" from his/her job prematurely? did the ship pass their INSERV inspection? Did the ship medical department have issues passing MRA? What is the projected operational cycle (shipyard-workup-deployment) for your 2 year assignment?
If there are multiple red flags..then your 2 years onboard may really suck and you will wish that you were with the ground pounders.

Alternatively, you can always play it safe and accept the GME2+ program (if you are sure this is the field that you want to spend the rest of your life practicing). Also, I would advice AGAINST using GME2+ slot and a bargaining chip. It may piss off the detailer and back fire (they have a tough job of trying to please everyone).

Best of luck

 

[re8]

Just for curiosity, if you are a FP are you going to spend your entire career in the ship? As you said if FP is going to take over GMO position, I think I need to change my choice. I am thinking about FP but it doesn't seem a better choice in the Navy

 

[NavyFP]

Just for curiosity, if you are a FP are you going to spend your entire career in the ship? As you said if FP is going to take over GMO position, I think I need to change my choice. I am thinking about FP but it doesn't seem a better choice in the Navy

No, there are plenty of non-operational billets. No you do not have to spend your entire career on a ship or with the Marines.

 

[re8]

Thank you NavyFP. As you said there my be more non-operational billets but still the deployment is going to be more frequent and long for FP's if they take over GMO position..don't you think so?

Even this time I think FP's are more frequently deployed than any other speciality. May be this is why most people prefer to do GMO instead of straight through FP residency even if they like the specialty. As for me I don't mind at all to deploy but it may be difficult if it happen like this..

Thanks

 

[backrow]

the deployment is going to be more frequent and long for FP's if they take over GMO position..don't you think so?

The GMO conversions are going to be covered by FP, General IM, EM, and Peds (and RAM's, but he didn't mention them) (this coming directly from Navy Surgeon General) so FP won't be the only ones needing to find bodies to fill those billets. (I don't believe many more GMO billets will continue to be converted though IMO.....for those who are very detail oriented, yes the billets may be converted in the billet code, but it will still be filled by a GMO)

Anyway, basically if you are assigned to an operational command you would likely have 2-3 yr orders. During that time you would likely hit 1, possibly 2 deployments. After that you would likely rotate to a shore billet for many years. Will FP have a slightly higher deployment tempo than say a pathologist? Yep. But I don't think it will be much more than what they have now.

 

[000777]

The GMO conversions are going to be covered by FP, General IM, EM, and Peds (and RAM's, but he didn't mention them) (this coming directly from Navy Surgeon General) so FP won't be the only ones needing to find bodies to fill those billets. (I don't believe many more GMO billets will continue to be converted though IMO.....for those who are very detail oriented, yes the billets may be converted in the billet code, but it will still be filled by a GMO)

Anyway, basically if you are assigned to an operational command you would likely have 2-3 yr orders. During that time you would likely hit 1, possibly 2 deployments. After that you would likely rotate to a shore billet for many years. Will FP have a slightly higher deployment tempo than say a pathologist? Yep. But I don't think it will be much more than what they have now.

So are the conversions really happening? I wanted to know what you thought of the powerpoint slide below...

www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/nomi/nami/usnac2009/Documents/pcolaA 2009.ppt

 

[backrow]

So are the conversions really happening? I wanted to know what you thought of the powerpoint slide below...

www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/nomi/nami/usnac2009/Documents/pcolaA 2009.ppt

Yes, the conversions are happening; however, as has been stated many times before there will never be a point where there aren't GMO's. The goal was to "convert" 100 GMO billets a year over 5 years....they have been doing this; however, by "convert" what they mean is simply changing the coding on the billet. This does not mean they actually have the trained person to fill that billet (as noted in the slides)....sooo, that billet still gets filled by a GMO for now.

GMO's will decrease over time, you'll see fewer on ships, fewer with the Marines (as noted in the slides some are going the PA way) etc; however, you'll still have people that want to do a GMO. You'll still likely have many GMO Flight Surgeons and UMO's.

 

[SPQR]

Navy GMOs will never completely go away, but the number of spots will decrease. (IMHO, a boarded FP is overtrained for 99% of healthcare issues onboard a medium or large deck ship).

On note, I know a few colleagues (specialists and subspecialists, including pathologists, radiation oncologists) who are now deployed as GMO/Flight Surgeons in support of GWOT (or whatever the new politically corect term is for our current conflict).

 

[react]

There are many things we don't know

 

[AF M4]

Navy GMOs will never completely go away, but the number of spots will decrease. (IMHO, a boarded FP is overtrained for 99% of healthcare issues onboard a medium or large deck ship).

On note, I know a few colleagues (specialists and subspecialists, including pathologists, radiation oncologists) who are now deployed as GMO/Flight Surgeons in support of GWOT (or whatever the new politically corect term is for our current conflict).

I think Fox News says that we're calling it Obama's War now.


"There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare." - Sun-Tzu

"D'oh!" - Homer Simpson