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I’m Over It [Rant]
- Thread starter The Knife & Gun Club
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TL/DR version - the struggle is real, the reward is worth it though.
3rd year medical student - I had similar feelings as you. It's common. Your friends from college and high school are moving on, and your life is on pause. While they go out and party, buy new cars, houses, and go on vacation, you're stuck in the same spot, going deeper into debt (negative net worth), putting in long hours with lots of uncertainty (will I pass this rotation, will I do well enough to match in the specialty I want in the program I want, will I graduate, how will I pay off this 6 figure loan). And you're at the bottom of the hierarchy, wondering if the teaching team remember you're part of the team (and every month or so, start on a different team, in a different field, maybe in a different hospital). And there's the pressure of Step 2 as well as self exams.
4th year - the end is in sight. Step 2 is out of the way, you're busy doing sub-I in the field you've decided, as well as applying/interviewing and matching. After the match - senioritis hits. You deserve this. This will be the only period (except between training and your first attending job) where you will have no responsibilities, no exams, no patients to follow-up, nothing to study. And graduation will celebrate your hard work. But moving is very expensive for a poor medical student deep in depth. Your classmates with affluent parents didn't have the same worry or concerns as you and some of your classmates. Life's not fair.
Intern Year - SUCKS. Responsibilities, pager, call schedule, lack of control over everything (where you will be, when you will eat, when you get to take vacation, etc). Come in early, stay late. Note writing, putting out small fires, figuring out if the smoke is actually a big conflagration, long hours. But you don't have to study for the self exam every month. Just the in-service exam (that you take yearly), Step 3, and survival. But at least you get paid so can afford the occasional "get together" ... in the grand scheme of things, your mental health and sanity is more important than the money you'll save if you skip these social events (if you are skipping to save money). You'll make it back in 1-2 hrs of attending work.
PGY2 and beyond - gets better or worse, depending on specialty. In-service exam yearly. Otherwise no more test. Oh, research in your "spare" time if you want competitive fellowship (or prestige academic appointment). Some residency have dedicated "research" month or years (sometimes at the expense of longer residency). Use the light months (whether it is a light rotation, or research) to recharge.
Fellowship - depend on specialty - can be easy (lifestyle) or hard. Basically it's like being an intern, except you now have residents expecting you to know something, and you are trying to study (and pass) your specialty board as a first year fellow (while on service, with no dedicated study time)
Attending - light at the end of the tunnel. Pay is good. You may or may not control your schedule, depending on specialty, type of employment, etc. But the money is good. live like a residency for the first 1-2 years, you can may off all or most of your loans. If you have huge loans, then may need a few more years. But then, after you paid off your loans - it is like a huge "raise" - the money you were setting aside monthly now can be used for your hobbies (investing, boating, flying, collecting, etc). Hours are better than residency (sometimes). Much better than a medical student. Sure, there are challenges (RVU generation, meeting meaningful use requirements, committee obligations, national organization work if you are interested, hospital admins, MOC, etc). There's always new/different challenges.
IMHO, The light at the end of the long tunnel is worth it.
It's a long road though ... and it's hard. When you are on q3 call and trying to stay awake at hour 27, with pager going off every few minutes ... it's hard. When you have little say on your schedule as a student/resident/fellow - it's hard. When you get your bank balance and see how much you owe - it's hard. And when your friends are enjoying life and showing you awesome pictures from vacation - it's hard
But in the end, the money will be there, and you've reach your goal. Gotta love what you do. If it's just a job, you would have quit a long time ago. It's more than just a job ... it's a career. But it doesn't define who you are.
It's a hard path - House of God was written in the 1970s about a disillusioned intern. The struggle is real. The reward is worth it though
3rd year medical student - I had similar feelings as you. It's common. Your friends from college and high school are moving on, and your life is on pause. While they go out and party, buy new cars, houses, and go on vacation, you're stuck in the same spot, going deeper into debt (negative net worth), putting in long hours with lots of uncertainty (will I pass this rotation, will I do well enough to match in the specialty I want in the program I want, will I graduate, how will I pay off this 6 figure loan). And you're at the bottom of the hierarchy, wondering if the teaching team remember you're part of the team (and every month or so, start on a different team, in a different field, maybe in a different hospital). And there's the pressure of Step 2 as well as self exams.
4th year - the end is in sight. Step 2 is out of the way, you're busy doing sub-I in the field you've decided, as well as applying/interviewing and matching. After the match - senioritis hits. You deserve this. This will be the only period (except between training and your first attending job) where you will have no responsibilities, no exams, no patients to follow-up, nothing to study. And graduation will celebrate your hard work. But moving is very expensive for a poor medical student deep in depth. Your classmates with affluent parents didn't have the same worry or concerns as you and some of your classmates. Life's not fair.
Intern Year - SUCKS. Responsibilities, pager, call schedule, lack of control over everything (where you will be, when you will eat, when you get to take vacation, etc). Come in early, stay late. Note writing, putting out small fires, figuring out if the smoke is actually a big conflagration, long hours. But you don't have to study for the self exam every month. Just the in-service exam (that you take yearly), Step 3, and survival. But at least you get paid so can afford the occasional "get together" ... in the grand scheme of things, your mental health and sanity is more important than the money you'll save if you skip these social events (if you are skipping to save money). You'll make it back in 1-2 hrs of attending work.
PGY2 and beyond - gets better or worse, depending on specialty. In-service exam yearly. Otherwise no more test. Oh, research in your "spare" time if you want competitive fellowship (or prestige academic appointment). Some residency have dedicated "research" month or years (sometimes at the expense of longer residency). Use the light months (whether it is a light rotation, or research) to recharge.
Fellowship - depend on specialty - can be easy (lifestyle) or hard. Basically it's like being an intern, except you now have residents expecting you to know something, and you are trying to study (and pass) your specialty board as a first year fellow (while on service, with no dedicated study time)
Attending - light at the end of the tunnel. Pay is good. You may or may not control your schedule, depending on specialty, type of employment, etc. But the money is good. live like a residency for the first 1-2 years, you can may off all or most of your loans. If you have huge loans, then may need a few more years. But then, after you paid off your loans - it is like a huge "raise" - the money you were setting aside monthly now can be used for your hobbies (investing, boating, flying, collecting, etc). Hours are better than residency (sometimes). Much better than a medical student. Sure, there are challenges (RVU generation, meeting meaningful use requirements, committee obligations, national organization work if you are interested, hospital admins, MOC, etc). There's always new/different challenges.
IMHO, The light at the end of the long tunnel is worth it.
It's a long road though ... and it's hard. When you are on q3 call and trying to stay awake at hour 27, with pager going off every few minutes ... it's hard. When you have little say on your schedule as a student/resident/fellow - it's hard. When you get your bank balance and see how much you owe - it's hard. And when your friends are enjoying life and showing you awesome pictures from vacation - it's hard
But in the end, the money will be there, and you've reach your goal. Gotta love what you do. If it's just a job, you would have quit a long time ago. It's more than just a job ... it's a career. But it doesn't define who you are.
It's a hard path - House of God was written in the 1970s about a disillusioned intern. The struggle is real. The reward is worth it though
i dont know, i feel like being an intern will be 1000x better than a med student. im so tired of feeling like a useless appendage when i talk to patients and docs. and when you look at how much knowledge interns have its really not much.
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Keep this thread professional. Personal attacks or condescending remarks about entire professions are not allowed. Moderator action has already been taken.
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I don't think I've ever heard anyone who has actually gone through intern year describe it as being easier than being a med student, but you never know. There is an "oh my god I'm a doctor!" element that is pretty cool for a couple of weeks in July, but that novelty wears off fast.
A
afib123
Intern year is no doubt tougher than anything you have ever done. But for people applying to competitive specialities, the psychological stress of knowing whether you have matched or not will be gone which is nice although intern year will still be hard.
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About to finish intern year and I went trough this. I don't remember my first child's infancy at all due to third year and travelling my 4th year. My second kid was born before my ICU rotation as an intern, and I can confidently say my personality and being changed after 1 month straight of ICU + family responsibilities. I don't have hobbies anymore, I tried to get back into video games but to be frank, there is no time. I do play basketball on weekends if I can, but other than that there is no extra "fun" or "me" time. I spoke with my program director, who also has 4 kids and is extremely busy. I mentioned the possibility of burnout, he stated "burnout? That is a millennial word, we just called it life". Essentially, he said you work so hard that it becomes routine, you stop expecting to have fun like you used to and you start to enjoy your new life.
I think that for the vast majority of people reading this, it sounds malignant and unhelpful, but for me it was exactly what I needed to hear. I stopped searching for my bachelor life, and accepted the new set of responsibilities that are required from a busy residency and family life. I am much happier because of it. I find the small things in life enjoyable, and waking up at 4:30 in the morning for a nice quiet cup of coffee, or spending 5 minutes looking at the stars is all I need. I agree to all the above from what other posters mentioned, but sometimes, especially with a family, going back to the old ways does not/cannot happen anymore. Sometimes finding a new balance is the only way forward. After months of searching I found my new balance, I know what my new normal is, and I am happy.
I think that for the vast majority of people reading this, it sounds malignant and unhelpful, but for me it was exactly what I needed to hear. I stopped searching for my bachelor life, and accepted the new set of responsibilities that are required from a busy residency and family life. I am much happier because of it. I find the small things in life enjoyable, and waking up at 4:30 in the morning for a nice quiet cup of coffee, or spending 5 minutes looking at the stars is all I need. I agree to all the above from what other posters mentioned, but sometimes, especially with a family, going back to the old ways does not/cannot happen anymore. Sometimes finding a new balance is the only way forward. After months of searching I found my new balance, I know what my new normal is, and I am happy.
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Thanks for sharing your perspective - and I hope everyone else is also respectful of differing opinions.
3
321931
Healthcare is hard. Healthcare is a sacrifice and commitment. But people view healthcare providers as people that solely went into the job to help and to serve people- sorta like a robot. People don't understand that healthcare providers are also human. As soon as you speak up about wanting to go out and do stuff not medicine related and or use your money that you earned for fun things like a nice car....people cannot emphasize with you... because they see healthcare providers as people that are good and doing it to help people. When a provider expresses human desires and emotions to relax...well they can't understand why. God forbid you start talking about money and salary.
When a doc goes on a rant like this...well the public can't emphasize. What? A neurosurgeon who sacrificed decades of their life towards a cause....doesn't deserve their high pay and or they should be helping more or even doing it for free. It can sometimes be a thankless job. But someone has to do it.
So bottom line? Keep trudging on...keep yourself mentally and physically sane. Try to do your hobbies...and keep working out as much as possible. Plan your way to have a balanced life and work hard and ignore all the noise. Ignore the noise? That means that honestly...noone but your peers will understand what you are going through- so try to have a good network of people that can keep you mentally happy. Sometimes the best things to do is good on binge rants with fellow professionals and just vent about the struggles of being a health professional. My wife who is an engineer...well when I go on a binge rant...she is like what are you complaining about? But when I meet up with other dental friends- they are like- we totally understand and totally hate x,y,z, part of the job. Just don't rant to much. Never good to be a negative nancy.
Also the biggest thing I tell all newly minted professionals is to plan your way out financially as best as possible. Try to avoid the big money traps in life like a big house and nice car. When you are financially "free" life becomes much easier. Save, invest, and pay back the loans and when you have a goal and stick to your financial goal in lets say getting financially free before 40...well it becomes easier to go into the job day in and day out.
Best of luck. I emphasize with medical professionals. My cousin is a heart surgeon. Dedicated 10+ years of life to the field and works 70+ hours a week. It's a hard job.
When a doc goes on a rant like this...well the public can't emphasize. What? A neurosurgeon who sacrificed decades of their life towards a cause....doesn't deserve their high pay and or they should be helping more or even doing it for free. It can sometimes be a thankless job. But someone has to do it.
So bottom line? Keep trudging on...keep yourself mentally and physically sane. Try to do your hobbies...and keep working out as much as possible. Plan your way to have a balanced life and work hard and ignore all the noise. Ignore the noise? That means that honestly...noone but your peers will understand what you are going through- so try to have a good network of people that can keep you mentally happy. Sometimes the best things to do is good on binge rants with fellow professionals and just vent about the struggles of being a health professional. My wife who is an engineer...well when I go on a binge rant...she is like what are you complaining about? But when I meet up with other dental friends- they are like- we totally understand and totally hate x,y,z, part of the job. Just don't rant to much. Never good to be a negative nancy.
Also the biggest thing I tell all newly minted professionals is to plan your way out financially as best as possible. Try to avoid the big money traps in life like a big house and nice car. When you are financially "free" life becomes much easier. Save, invest, and pay back the loans and when you have a goal and stick to your financial goal in lets say getting financially free before 40...well it becomes easier to go into the job day in and day out.
Best of luck. I emphasize with medical professionals. My cousin is a heart surgeon. Dedicated 10+ years of life to the field and works 70+ hours a week. It's a hard job.
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If I remember correctly, you're from Minnesota. (If I'm wrong what I write will still ring true - just I'm a native of up there too and we are a different breed - in more ways than one)
I kind of looked up to you - age has no boundary as I look up to those older, younger and even same age. It's a respect you give to someone who's walked the walk, not just strung up fairy dust and unicorns.
Thank you for that.
Not sure where you ended up if not in MN, but ... please go grab your pole, drop a worm or a minnow, enjoy the day in the sun. Grab a Skilsaw or a drill press and bore some holes into 2x4's to make joints for a pen holder or centerpiece for your table. Even if for only an hour, sand, paint and stain, poly the finish and enjoy. The piece you work on will take weeks but when it's done, you'll be done with MS3.
That one hour you give yourself, every day, will - I promise you - provide some semblance of not having lost it all to chase your dream.
When I left MN to move 1600 miles away, I thought my MN friends would always be there; we'd keep in touch (we'd known each other for 30 years) but ... me being on the beach or at Disney or in school or ... just away - they've moved on.
That is life. Yes, it sucks. It hurts but I chose to leave and I chose to live my life the way I need to. They did too.
Celebrate you have someone you love and who loves you back. Celebrate you're not STILL a stupid premed
because you gave up, quit, got exhausted, insert any excuse... Celebrate that YOU will be a doctor and then...you'll find friends that understand your life and lifestyle, who appreciate all you've done to get to where you are.
And if you did end up in MN, then... seriously, go shovel the snow
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It helps you have some basic equipment at home.
These days you can almost always find a "globo" style 24 hour gym nearby for $10-15/month without any contracts usually close to where you live or on the way to or from work.
You just go when you can. Make it a priority. There's always a post call day and any weekend day off. Get out early one day, gut the gym before going home. Once you're home it's much harder to leave.
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Thanks for this. currently MS3, had a rough day today and this helped.
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Damn, this is depressing.
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It's part of the reason why I can't see myself having kids. I just can't do it on top of medicine.
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And yet tons of doctors do it and manage to have a good family life. It’s just about prioritizing your off work time.
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Giving up on kids because of medicine is like medicine literally kicking you in the balls (or ovaries)
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To be fair i never really wanted kids from the get go. i don't want my money or time siphoned off to take care of kids. I tried really hard before to think about the benefits of having a kid and I couldn't come up with anything for me personally.
Giving up on kids because of medicine is like medicine literally kicking you in the balls (or ovaries)
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Haha, it was! But, wouldn't trade it for the world. The kids give more fullfillment/happiness than whatever I used to do before. Maybe other parents during residency had a different experience, and its probably why others wait until they are an attending or later in residency to have kids, but we are very happy with our decision to start early. It was a heck of a transition though!
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So this is where all the wellness lectures come from.
Booze Aldrin
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Just wanted to come back and say thanks to everyone who provided feedback and reminded me that I'm not alone.
After 2 weeks of relaxing and visiting some non medical friends, I can honestly say I feel almost 100% better. Never underestimate what a little time away can do.
After 2 weeks of relaxing and visiting some non medical friends, I can honestly say I feel almost 100% better. Never underestimate what a little time away can do.
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This will still apply once you're out and doctoring later on so don't forget how much of a difference a few weeks away makes.
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Current intern here. PGY1 is both better and harder than MS3.
Agreed- but would add since you won’t always have the option of a few weeks, a few hours here and there, or a half hour every day, also makes a huge difference. You need some time for you, whether that’s weight lifting or spending time with your family or walking your dog or watching Parks & Rec or sleeping. You can’t give it your all for 80ish hours/week running on uncharged batteries.
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As a resident maybe not, as an attending you absolutely can.
BabyDaddy
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This was super helpful for me. I've found that looking for time off, vacation, life without responsibilities is an unhelpful fantasy that leaves me dissatisfied and frustrated. The more I embrace the responsibilities of Med school and family life, the more I seem to enjoy it, and the less resentful/frustrated/burned out I feel. Often when I do get time alone, I don't know what to do with myself or how to enjoy it, because there is always something I should be doing. The one exception is when I am purposeful about scheduling "time off" with my wife. That helps, mucho. Investing in our relationship is like "being productive" in a way, but way more fun.
I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that I'm adjusting. This is hard with young kids, but I absolutely know this is the only thing I would want to be doing.
Cheers,
-BabyDaddy
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As a resident, I love what I do, but the stresses of life are real and are sometimes amplified. I'm never free 9-5 while the world is working to take care of normal life things.
I can empathize OP. I went to a med school where most if not all my classmates were better off than me financially. Most of my co-residents either have a sugar momma or their parents pay their rent. It cannot be understated how much added stress finances add to a young doctors life.
Working long hours doing what I love, not a problem. Worrying about saving enough money to go beyond subsisting, painful.
I can empathize OP. I went to a med school where most if not all my classmates were better off than me financially. Most of my co-residents either have a sugar momma or their parents pay their rent. It cannot be understated how much added stress finances add to a young doctors life.
Working long hours doing what I love, not a problem. Worrying about saving enough money to go beyond subsisting, painful.
Matched into a big city and will be starting residency there this summer. I didn't realize the truth to this statement until apartment hunting started
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If this is a student loans issue, could you possibly defer the student loans?
If this is an income issue (ie, resident salary is too low to afford your desired apartment), would it be possible to look into subsidized housing?
Genuinely curious...this will be my situation in a few years because I'm definitely trying to match in a big city when the time comes. How are you handling it?
Not too keen on having roommates either...
It's an everything issue to be honest. Mix in the fact that we just spent the last year with applications, interviewing, away rotations, etc I barely have enough money to leave my apartment at the moment much less move. It is mid-May right now and we get our first (half) paycheck in mid-July. Most of my classmates are in this position as well though it seems 90% have been traveling the world for the last month on god knows what money.
My current way of handling it is simple denial
