Importance of undergrad school for top tiers

[saint1569]

When appyling to top tier medical schools (Harvard, JHU, etc...) does what undergraduate university you went to make a difference?

For instance, if I go to a smaller, relatively unknown university, will I still have the same chances of acceptance as someone else who attended a more well known prestigious college?

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[riceman04]

When appyling to top tier medical schools (Harvard, JHU, etc...) does what undergraduate university you went to make a difference?

For instance, if I go to a smaller, relatively unknown university, will I still have the same chances of acceptance as someone else who attended a more well known prestigious college?

the short answer is YES.

However, attending a big name school does help a little in the process...but it DOES NOT outweigh one's post-high school accomplishments.

best of luck

 

[saint1569]

the short answer is YES.

Yes to the second question, I hope...?

 

[riceman04]

Yes to the second question, I hope...?

to the second question

I will say there were a number of students on my interview day at big name schools who also came from "top undergrad programs." But that may be more of a reflection of the typical student you tend to find at these schools rather than a med school's actual preference for students from top tier universities.

 

[saint1569]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So, just to reiterate, top tier medical schools don't take preference to students who came from big name schools over students who came from lesser known schools?

 

[Brent8927]

I think coming from a big name school always helps a little bit--that is, unless the interviewer went to the same school as you! But I think your performance/ec's, LORS, etc., are far more important.

When I interviewed at UCLA (I think it's in the top 10, but honestly I really don't know or care too much about rankings...) there were some interviewees from bigger-name schools (and all of our tour guides were from UC Berkeley!) but at least half of us interviewees (including me) were from smaller and less-known universities.

Of course, that's just one person's experience. And I can definitely promise you not all/most of UCLA's students went to UC Berkeley--it just so happened that these guys were all friends and did the tour together.

 

[riceman04]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So, just to reiterate, top tier medical schools don't take preference to students who came from big name schools over students who came from lesser known schools?

no not really; however, many schools will take "school prestige" in to account...but the benefit is quite small...

 

[saint1569]

That's relieving then

Ahh. Thanks a lot!

 

[mcgyver]

i think, generally, GPA wise

3.5 at ivy > 3.5 at lesser known school
but

3.8 at lesser known school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.6 at ivy

 

[chessodoc]

i think, generally, GPA wise

3.5 at ivy > 3.5 at lesser known school
but

3.8 at lesser known school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.6 at ivy

I dont think this is true...

 

[veaselhaufen]

I think one's school makes a fairly big difference. Almost everyone interviewing at top 10 schools are from big name undergrads. If you're a superstar you'll get in anyway but going to a school which commonly puts students in top med programs will definitely help you. Whether or not it is the school's name which is helping you is debatable.

However, of course, individual effort and accomplishments trumps school name.

 

[bigbad]

OP, you're not going to be able to get a straight answer to your question. Being in the process of picking an undergrad, I've asked the same question on SDN and have searched the depths of the internetz and people are going to tell you yes and no....

Some are going to say that applying with a big name can give you GPA boosts of up to .3 and others are going to tell you that it won't matter as long as you do well. I think both of these are true. But there are +/- for going to a big name school, most likely you'll get more competition but also likely that you'll be compensated a little for it.

I don't know if its true that adcoms will compensate for a lower GPA at a prestigious school but personally I don't understand how you can judge how "hard" a school is just based on what you've heard. It's true there's more competition at some but its a bit unfair to assume without actually having gone there and seen it yourself..

But common sense will tell you that people at certain schools will be favored, sadly...

 

[drizzt3117]

I heard recently that the acceptance rate at Penn for Penn grads was 10x higher than that from other schools. Coincidence? You tell me.

 

[slowbutsteady]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So, just to reiterate, top tier medical schools don't take preference to students who came from big name schools over students who came from lesser known schools?

Ah, so young. This is the most talked about subject on SDN and always will be. It often gets very ugly.

I'll sum up 100000000 threads for you.

Answer: Yes it helps in admissions to top 10, or any, medical school, to have gone to a top college and to have preformed well there. However, if you performed very well at a little-known university, you will not be at a disadvantage. HOWEVER, if you have average scores from Harvard/Yale/Stanford you will be at a big advantage over applicants who have average scores from an unknown or less prestigious school.

 

[BlueElmo]

i dont think this is true...

+1.

 

[guestdoc]

Ah, so young. This is the most talked about subject on SDN and always will be. It often gets very ugly.

I'll sum up 100000000 threads for you.

Answer: Yes it helps in admissions to top 10, or any, medical school, to have gone to a top college and to have preformed well there. However, if you performed very well at a little-known university, you will not be at a disadvantage. HOWEVER, if you have average scores from Harvard/Yale/Stanford you will be at a big advantage over applicants who have average scores from an unknown or less prestigious school.

When you come from a big name school with good stats, there is definitely an advantage. Coming from a less-known school with the same stats can put you at a disadvantage. If you were an adcom member and you were rummaging through thousands of applications, which ones would stick out to you? Applicant A from Harvard, or Applicant B from random school that you maybe haven't even heard of? Of course, stats and other variables are extremely important, but I think that the school you come from has an effect.

I come from a large school that is seen as academically good, but not at all amazing. We consistently have students with some insane stats that get into some of the top schools in the country, but there are a few top-twenty schools that students from our school just never get in to and I think it very much has something to do with "school reputation". There is another medical school that I would consider to be nearly top-tier that loves our institution. Although states away, they accept more students from my university than any other medical school (even more than the state-school).

Should this affect where you go for undergrad? It depends on what your priorities are. I'm happy with the cost, fellow classmates and quality of education of my undergrad, so that's why I'm here. I do think it has kept me and my classmates out of at least a few schools, though.

 

[loganhayes]

If you go to a top school and get awesome stats (GPA and MCAT), you probably can get more acceptances than you could ever imagine. It happened to one of my friends. Since when you decline Vanderbilt, UMich, UPitt, NYU at the same time.. Man, I want one of those.

In my school, which is not even in the top 50 medical school... I think we barely made it to the top 100, ... some are from top schools.. yale, princeton, harvard, columbia, etc. We (the non-ivies) can't help but wonder, wow, you guys must have fu**ed up somewhere in your undergrad to end up here. Remember, you never go to Denny's, you ALWAYS END UP at Denny's.

Still, for med school, a 3.9 GPA from a no-name school is better than a sub 3.0 GPA from an ivy. The latter would almost be impossible to even get in.

Food for thoughts...

 

[slowbutsteady]

Agree that a 3.8 from Harvard beats a 3.8 from no-name, all else being equal (which it never is). But the 3.8 from no-name will do very, very well in the process and will have a good shot at a Top Ten if the rest of the app is top notch.

Where it gets interesting, though, is what about a 3.5/34 from Harvard against a 3.8/36 from no-name. I think the Harvard grad will prevail. Assuming, again that the rest of the two apps are great.

And THAT, my friend, is where the thread deteriorates into a flame war!!

Which is really silly, because we all have already made our beds and we are lying in them. Why argue about this when we can't do anything about it -- we have or are about to graduate from Harvard or no-name. Just maximize your own situation and live with it.

In my case, however, having graduated from H/Y/P with a very modest GPA, I was very interested in the notion that my Ivy League degree might make up for my lackluster academic record. (the rest of my app is very good.)

Result: It did!!

 

[Greonis]

These threads should really be accompanied by a caveat that mostly speculation is to be found within. Meaning absolutely no offense, I would guess that just about everyone who posts an opinion about this topic (be it for or against) can only use the microcosm of the process that they have been exposed to, such as a few interview days. In reality, like many things in the medical school admissions process, it is going to be variable between different schools, extremely difficult to codify in any way, and likely to change over time along with the applicant pool. Therefore, it is truly impossible for one to know for sure without said individual having a firm grasp of the admissions policies at many schools (I doubt that anyone like this even exists!). Therefore, I hope that future posters will bear that in mind before trying to present their perception of the entire puzzle with only a few of its pieces.

Some food for thought: can we really be sure that it is the school's name, and not talent-based self-selection, that is largely responsible for making it seem as if applicants from "better" schools land more acceptances on average at top-tier schools? I would guess that this is equally difficult (if not impossible) to answer.

 

[Arjuna]

When appyling to top tier medical schools (Harvard, JHU, etc...) does what undergraduate university you went to make a difference?

For instance, if I go to a smaller, relatively unknown university, will I still have the same chances of acceptance as someone else who attended a more well known prestigious college?

To give you an idea, at least five people got into HMS from a fairly low ranked school in MD (state school) and they did NOT have anywhere near a 4.0 and 39 or above MCAT and they were not URM (not that that matters). So, I think it does not matter more than 0.5%. Also, to clarify, they accepted at least five just THIS cycle.

 

[witness23]

Agree that a 3.8 from Harvard beats a 3.8 from no-name, all else being equal (which it never is). But the 3.8 from no-name will do very, very well in the process and will have a good shot at a Top Ten if the rest of the app is top notch.

Where it gets interesting, though, is what about a 3.5/34 from Harvard against a 3.8/36 from no-name. I think the Harvard grad will prevail. Assuming, again that the rest of the two apps are great.

And THAT, my friend, is where the thread deteriorates into a flame war!!

Which is really silly, because we all have already made our beds and we are lying in them. Why argue about this when we can't do anything about it -- we have or are about to graduate from Harvard or no-name. Just maximize your own situation and live with it.

In my case, however, having graduated from H/Y/P with a very modest GPA, I was very interested in the notion that my Ivy League degree might make up for my lackluster academic record. (the rest of my app is very good.)

Result: It did!!

this is a tough call. med schools (some) def weight where you are coming from.

jobs will def recruit from top level universities.

however, there are plenty of ivy leaguers that did not get into medical school.

it is interesting though. if you end up at one of the top schools like harvard or stanford. you should look around 4 years from now on your graduation day. most schools have some special tassle or something to note the people graduating above a certain number. when i graduated, i remember the USnews article saying something like harvard had 90% of people graduate above a 3.5 and that the median graduation gpa at stanford was like a 3.7. now i don't know if those numbers were accruate or due to some sort of bias in statistical review, but thats just insane. you would think med schools take notice.


but yea again, i do know of ppl from harvard and princeton in carribean. but i also know of someone with a 3.8 and a 38 at sgu. the point is that you really have to demonstrate to adcoms that you are dedicated to this medicine thing. go where you will be happy and think you could perform well in and out of the classroom (you probably have no idea where this is).

in hindsight, i would have took the scholarship from state school or joined the military.

 

[slowbutsteady]

The premed advisors at my H/Y/P college counsel people with weak apps out of applying. Those people either give up or strengthen their record and try later. They know that the committee letter will not be strong, so there isn't much point in applying.

So all of their applicants have been pre-screened before they apply.

Accordingly, they have a 95% acceptance of their grads to medical school. (doubt that that number includes caribbean, but it could, i guess.)

Do other schools do that?

 

[witness23]

some schools like columbia only likes to write committee lor's for ppl with 3.6/30+, to weed out apps

other schools - they weed out people with tougher classes like crnell

 

[spellie11]

i think, generally, GPA wise

3.5 at ivy > 3.5 at lesser known school
but

3.8 at lesser known school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.6 at ivy

Def not true. Fairly common knowledge that grade inflation is common at ivy league schools.

 

[45408]

Very common thread topic. Read some of the older threads

- http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=461064&highlight=reputation


The short answer is that yes, it probably matters a small amount, but it may not be at all relevant to your desired field. If you wish to do OB/GYN in the community, then your undergrad, med school and residency are all pretty irrelevant. If it's your heart's burning desire to run a big cancer research lab at Harvard, then I guess you should take every little boost you can get.

 

[PremedIowa]

The premed advisors at my H/Y/P college counsel people with weak apps out of applying. Those people either give up or strengthen their record and try later. They know that the committee letter will not be strong, so there isn't much point in applying.

So all of their applicants have been pre-screened before they apply.

Accordingly, they have a 95% acceptance of their grads to medical school. (doubt that that number includes caribbean, but it could, i guess.)

Do other schools do that?

Mine does not and we make it a point of pride that we are willing to help any students who come through our door. My boss says it is not in the job description of a pre-med office to reject or kill students' applications. That being said, if we only provided counseling to 3.5+/30s, I suspect we could have an acceptance rate of 80-90%. At the same time, we would screw over those borderline students who could have a chance to get in somewhere with a little help.

My take on the whole school prestige thing: rock the MCAT and then you are on the same playing field as everyone else and no one will question your academic ability. And I love my state school to death even if we suck at sports

 

[witness23]

also note that if you want to take a lag year, you will realize how hard it is to pay back debt. college is really what you make of it (kinda) but other posters are right.

 

[shindotp]

The premed advisors at my H/Y/P college counsel people with weak apps out of applying. Those people either give up or strengthen their record and try later. They know that the committee letter will not be strong, so there isn't much point in applying.

So all of their applicants have been pre-screened before they apply.

Accordingly, they have a 95% acceptance of their grads to medical school. (doubt that that number includes caribbean, but it could, i guess.)

Do other schools do that?

I go to one of the H/Y/P and I can assure you that my school does not pre-screen. I'm also pretty sure neither of the other 2 do either.

There have been people who applied even though our advisors said to take a year off, and some of those still manage to get in.

 

[shindotp]

Def not true. Fairly common knowledge that grade inflation is common at ivy league schools.

Fairly common knowledge that it's harder to get an A at an Ivy League school than a state school.

I'd be surprised if anyone who gets into H/Y/P through academics gets anything less than a 3.9 at a state school.

 

[witness23]

i kinda agree with the sentiments that it might be easier to get good grades at a state school. but it really depends on the person. some people like to take the hardest classes wherever they go and will challenge themselves.

i also know kids from ivy leagues that didn't break 30s and state school kids with above 40s.

again, i'd go to where you are happy. sometimes that means staying close to family (at this young age, you may need the support system). you can't predict med school admissions now.

however, you should also keep an open mind to other career options. a top tier education will most definitely encourage/facilitate a change of mind.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I go to one of the H/Y/P and I can assure you that my school does not pre-screen. I'm also pretty sure neither of the other 2 do either.

There have been people who applied even though our advisors said to take a year off, and some of those still manage to get in.

I went to one too and i had friends in tears about the results of their committee review. Maybe "pre-screen" is too strong a term, but they definitely "counsel."

 

[eight sat up]

.

 

[RapplixGmed]

I may be one of the first to argue for this but I think that in fact, school name plays a very important role when applying to the top schools.

I'll give my school for example. My undergrad is a lesser known state school. We have been generally looked down upon as an undergrad but we are "up and coming" and improving a lot. My group of friends are applying with pretty good stats. We all have pretty close to 4.00 and myself and one of my friends have 40s on mcats, a few other friends have 35+ on mcats. We also all did biomedical engineering, which is widely agreed to be the toughest major on the undergrad. We all have lots of ECs, publications, good recs, etc. We applied everywhere and we interiewed at a ton of great places (look at my MDapps) some of my friends also interviewed at Mayo, Michigan, etc in addition to a lot of the ones I did. At a lot of interviews, I was asked about my undergrad because they apparently didn't know much about it. More than one interviewer actually thought I went to another more well known state school.

What are our results? I was lucky enough to get into NW and some of my friends are going to UVA, Maryland but really thats as far as we got. Perhaps we all suck at interviewing but we think theres something more to it.

Just look at it from an admissions committee's perspective. At the top in terms of applicant quality, its so hard to distinguish one applicant from another... the name probably makes a much bigger difference.

 

[riceman04]

I heard recently that the acceptance rate at Penn for Penn grads was 10x higher than that from other schools. Coincidence? You tell me.

there are actually alot of Penn undergrads who end up going to Penn for med/dental school; however I do not think it is 10x higher

 

[drizzt3117]

there are actually alot of Penn undergrads who end up going to Penn for med/dental school; however I do not think it is 10x higher

Last year the accept rate for general pool was 1% and it was 10% for Penn alumni. I don't know if that includes the postbacs or not.

 

[veaselhaufen]

I may be one of the first to argue for this but I think that in fact, school name plays a very important role when applying to the top schools.

I'll give my school for example. My undergrad is a lesser known state school. We have been generally looked down upon as an undergrad but we are "up and coming" and improving a lot. My group of friends are applying with pretty good stats. We all have pretty close to 4.00 and myself and one of my friends have 40s on mcats, a few other friends have 35+ on mcats. We also all did biomedical engineering, which is widely agreed to be the toughest major on the undergrad. We all have lots of ECs, publications, good recs, etc. We applied everywhere and we interiewed at a ton of great places (look at my MDapps) some of my friends also interviewed at Mayo, Michigan, etc in addition to a lot of the ones I did. At a lot of interviews, I was asked about my undergrad because they apparently didn't know much about it. More than one interviewer actually thought I went to another more well known state school.

What are our results? I was lucky enough to get into NW and some of my friends are going to UVA, Maryland but really thats as far as we got. Perhaps we all suck at interviewing but we think theres something more to it.

Just look at it from an admissions committee's perspective. At the top in terms of applicant quality, its so hard to distinguish one applicant from another... the name probably makes a much bigger difference.

I'm predicting that you're going to get off some waitlists at "top" schools

 

[Greonis]

Last year the accept rate for general pool was 1% and it was 10% for Penn alumni. I don't know if that includes the postbacs or not.

But can you be sure that such a statistic comes from "top schools" bias, or some other factor (IE: Penn being required to accept a certain portion of its own undergraduate applicants, some sort of quota for those who already have experience with Philadelphia, etc...) I ask because that kind of selection (a medical school tapping its associated undergraduate institution for students) is a phenomenon that is definitely not limited to top schools...

 

[bigbad]

Fairly common knowledge that it's harder to get an A at an Ivy League school than a state school.

I'd be surprised if anyone who gets into H/Y/P through academics gets anything less than a 3.9 at a state school.

And this is where the bias in admissions comes from, the notion that anyone from a top school could easily maintain a 3.9 at state... I'm sure adcoms aren't immune to it either..

I think we should be looking at MCAT rather than GPA, no? Someone bust out average scores for an ivy compared to a state school. (INCLUDING the weeded out applications )...

 

[saint1569]

Remember, you never go to Denny's, you ALWAYS END UP at Denny's.

I go to Denny's...
I feel like it's a dumb question, but how different is a top tier medical school from a lower ranked one? Is it the same as comparing a top ranked undergraduate university to a lower ranked one? I'm assuming the education one receives will be the same no matter what...?

they did NOT have anywhere near a 4.0 and 39 or above MCAT and they were not URM (not that that matters).

On that subject, does being an URM have a significant (read: enough to be chosen over a non-URM)effect on admissions, particularly in top tier schools? Does it have any effect whatsoever...?

Ugh I hate the idea of factors out of my control having some effect on my admittance to medical school. If I don't get accepted because my GPA is too low, then that's my fault and I can handle that. But not being accepted because they chose to admit the H/P/Y guy over me is really frustrating and honestly a bit scary

Thanks for everyone's replies though, it's all very helpful and appreciated.

 

[bigbad]

Ugh I hate the idea of factors out of my control having some effect on my admittance to medical school. If I don't get accepted because my GPA is too low, then that's my fault and I can handle that. But not being accepted because they chose to admit the H/P/Y guy over me is really frustrating and honestly a bit scary

Tell me about it, its even scarier for me since I'm picking an undergrad and I'm sick to my stomach wondering what the hell I do..

If I go to the lower ranked one (which I'd love to go to) and not get in because of something that was out of my control, then what? And reading RapplixGmed's post shows that it is possible..

And everyone says to go to the school where I'll enjoy it most. Is it worth going somewhere if it holds me back from becoming a doctor? That would be horrible

 

[drizzt3117]

Tell me about it, its even scarier for me since I'm picking an undergrad and I'm sick to my stomach wondering what the hell I do..

If I go to the lower ranked one (which I'd love to go to) and not get in because of something that was out of my control, then what? And reading RapplixGmed's post shows that it is possible..

And everyone says to go to the school where I'll enjoy it most. Is it worth going somewhere if it holds me back from becoming a doctor? That would be horrible

No school (except maybe a for-profit one) is going to preclude you being admitted to ANY medical school. We're just talking about it playing a role in people getting or not getting into top tier schools.

 

[drizzt3117]

Ugh I hate the idea of factors out of my control having some effect on my admittance to medical school. If I don't get accepted because my GPA is too low, then that's my fault and I can handle that. But not being accepted because they chose to admit the H/P/Y guy over me is really frustrating and honestly a bit scary

Thanks for everyone's replies though, it's all very helpful and appreciated.

That's life, deal with it. Are people potentially going to have an advantage over you, with all else equal? Yes, IMO, but it doesn't matter because it's up to you to become as attractive a candidate as possible. Factors out of your control are just that, out of your control. Don't worry about them. Just put yourself in as good a situation as you can.

 

[Anatidae]

I go to Denny's...
I feel like it's a dumb question, but how different is a top tier medical school from a lower ranked one? Is it the same as comparing a top ranked undergraduate university to a lower ranked one? I'm assuming the education one receives will be the same no matter what...?



On that subject, does being an URM have a significant (read: enough to be chosen over a non-URM)effect on admissions, particularly in top tier schools? Does it have any effect whatsoever...?

Ugh I hate the idea of factors out of my control having some effect on my admittance to medical school. If I don't get accepted because my GPA is too low, then that's my fault and I can handle that. But not being accepted because they chose to admit the H/P/Y guy over me is really frustrating and honestly a bit scary

Thanks for everyone's replies though, it's all very helpful and appreciated.

This first question is tough to answer since it really depends on your ultimate goals. If you're interested in a career in academia, the top schools offer you opportunities in research and connections with faculty that can determine your fate for the rest of your life. If all you want to do is be a physician that sees patients, then most schools will provide you the training to do that. Of course, the same phenomenon will exist when you apply to future residencies, where students from bigger named programs will get advantages that students from lesser named programs won't get. Some times it's not significant, but it'll always play some role.

The second question is much easier to answer. Yes. Being a URM candidate unequivocally offers you an advantage over a similar non-URM candidate, especially at top tiers that are recruiting for ethnic and economic diversity.

 

[Wylde]

When appyling to top tier medical schools (Harvard, JHU, etc...) does what undergraduate university you went to make a difference?

For instance, if I go to a smaller, relatively unknown university, will I still have the same chances of acceptance as someone else who attended a more well known prestigious college?

Look at MDApps (search lower ranked schools, often ones with "state") and youll able to gauge the odds. Personally, I think that there are so many excellent apps from top schools that it is very unlikely someone from a lower school will attend the Harvards of the world unless you have ridiculous ECs and MCAT. Even people with 40s/4.0s/good ECs from state schools are consistenly denied interviews from elite med schools, but look for yourself on mdapps (yes, I know it is a small sample size, etc. etc. blah blah).

edit: Most of the people on MDApps that get in from lower schools are URMs. If you see a Harvard acceptance (or other top schools) from a low ranked school, it is almost always a URM.

 

[Podalarius]

I met many people on the interview trail who didn't go to Ivy/equivalent schools who were interviewing at Ivy medical schools. If you do well in undergrad and on the MCAT and have the necessary experiences in the clinic, lab, etc. you should be competitive - admissions to the top schools is, past a certain point, an inscrutable process, and your job is just to put together the best application you can.

That being said, when I interviewed at Yale, Dean Silverman noted that there were 55 different colleges represented in the class of 2012 (out of 100 students). He also noted that 30% of physicians who had graduated from Yale had gone to one of two colleges for undergrad, Harvard or Yale.

A degree from an Ivy or other highly competitive school, public or private, is likely going to inform an adcoms decision. Within the Ivy League, acceptance rates for undergrad range from 1 in 12 at Harvard to around 1 of 5 at Cornell. Comparable state schools (UCs, UVA, etc.) have acceptance rates only slightly higher than that. If your grades/LORs say that you stood out even among your pre-selected peers, it is likely to make more of an impact. These schools also have ample opportunities in research on their own campuses, and, in many cases, at their own elite medical school. Given the volume of applications, it is not unreasonable to guess that the competitiveness of your undergrad degree can have an impact on the overall outcome.

Unfortunately for some students at these schools, that means they never get a chance to compete with the general applicant pool. My Ivy undergrad definitely pre-screened students for committee letters. The committee could decline to write you a letter, and professors for pre-med courses had no hesistation in counseling you to consider options other than medicine. If you're choosing schools for undergrad, I'd say you should pick the most competitive place where you will be happy. You want the opportunity to prove yourself, and having driven peers is a great way to stay sharp, but don't pick a miserable place for undergrad (or med school, for that matter), since it's not going to help you perform.

 

[riceman04]

Last year the accept rate for general pool was 1% and it was 10% for Penn alumni. I don't know if that includes the postbacs or not.

it does

 

[WaterBird]

Unless I didn't pick up on some subtle sarcasm, I'd like to see all HYP students maintain nothing less than a 3.9 at Berkeley or UCLA. Hmmm, I think we're delving into the realm of...

...too many generalizations. This thread is just going to become a useless pissing contest.

When most people generalize to "state schools" they are not including UCB or UCLA (or UM or UVA etc). And I think we can all agree that coming from Berkeley is going to look different to adcoms that coming from somewhere they have never heard of.

As you can see from the Yale example, it seems like the Ivies care most about coming from an Ivy, whereas other top schools care less. Look at the top ten or top 20 med schools in this country - there are lots of great schools that aren't ivies.

In the end, the whole debate is kind of useless. Do well where you are, and don't worry about other people. Same thing with the URM issue - because the pool of ORMs is so much bigger than the pool of URMs, an individual URM can gain a significant advantage while only decreasing the chance of an individual ORM by a tiny amount.

 

[redlight]

Yes, going to a well-known and rigorous schools is likely a big plus for you for in admissions.. some schools do look for the pedigree (**cough like columbia's infatuation with ivy grads) while some don't seem to give too much preference (**cough washu, jhu)

and about undergrad influence... i know of at least 1 (non-penn) top 10 school which has a separate review of applicants from their undergrad (so applicants from the ugrad compete with themselves for admission while everyone else is in the general pool)... keep that in mind...

 

[BlueElmo]

The quick and dirty answer to the question: It does matter!

 

[NCDocWannabe]

Some schools actually post info about what schools are represented in their incoming class. If you're interested in a school that provides this information, just browse that list and get an idea of the caliber of schools the tend to accept.