Indiana Cheating...

[oms fan]

No one has posted this yet??

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6482693

http://www.theindychannel.com/education/13278117/detail.html

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070508/LOCAL18/705080400/-1/LOCAL17

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[aphistis]

Gosh, 48 hours. I can't believe the story went that long before appearing here on SDN. I half-expected it to show up here even prior to the public announcement a few days ago.

Between the outright dismissals and the number of "suspensions" that will probably turn into withdrawals due to logistics, my best guess is that about 1/3 of the 2009 class will have to leave school over this.

 

[oms fan]

How's the tone there at IU?
I know when we had our scandal at UNLV last summer...it really affected the whole school. It's all anyone talked about and rumors were flying like mad.
We are still working at repairing the public opinion damage that was done due to the actions of a few.

 

[speedy3816]

What I wonder is simply "why"... which I know is not so simple, but what is it? Are the classes really hard? Is the material really hard?

If someone is cutting corners now (while in school), what are they going to do when faced with a challenge in the future (in practice)?

Why would someone even think about cheating?

 

[LIer2010]

What I wonder is simply "why"... which I know is not so simple, but what is it? Are the classes really hard? Is the material really hard?

If someone is cutting corners now (while in school), what are they going to do when faced with a challenge in the future (in practice)?

Why would someone even think about cheating?

Everyone cheats in life, in some form or another. You do too, although perhaps not in this specific matter. Get off your high horse and look deep within your own heart before you spew off some self-righteous rant.

 

[armorshell]

Everyone cheats in life, in some form or another. You do too, although perhaps not in this specific matter. Get off your high horse and look deep within your own heart before you spew off some self-righteous rant.

Actually, when you're talking about people who hacked into a faculty account to steal test questions, I think you're probably allowed to be a little self righteous.

 

[DrJeff]

Gosh, 48 hours. I can't believe the story went that long before appearing here on SDN. I half-expected it to show up here even prior to the public announcement a few days ago.

Between the outright dismissals and the number of "suspensions" that will probably turn into withdrawals due to logistics, my best guess is that about 1/3 of the 2009 class will have to leave school over this.

I'd bet that a few folks from the 3rd and 1st year classes will look at this as less of the current 2nd year class = less people in the clinics = more work/patients for them.

What comes around goes around

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

I'd bet that a few folks from the 3rd and 1st year classes will look at this as less of the current 2nd year class = less people in the clinics = more work/patients for them.

What comes around goes around

I read the article and the quote from the lady who is in charge of the dental board bothers me. She said something like "in general, dentists are good practioners and dentistry is noble and respected profession". Why? Is she implying that in most cases, dentists are good and others we are not? Also why does she stressed that dentistry is a honor and trusted profession? It seems she is being defensive about dentistry image and status. Sad indeed. DP

 

[LIer2010]

Actually, when you're talking about people who hacked into a faculty account to steal test questions, I think you're probably allowed to be a little self righteous.

umm ... to be technical, they didn't "hack" into anything. To hack into something means to break into someone else's hard drive and extract data. In this case, they were opening up locked files that were sent to them via email.
In any case, do you think what they did is worse than speeding on a highway, which can potentially kill people? Or cheating on taxes (which statistics show that most Americans do), that may contribute to reducing of civil services?
It's true that dentists should be held to a higher standard ... but let's not kid ourselves - dentists are not more ethical or moral than an average person, just by the sake of being in this profession.
How many practicing dentists (and physicians) do you know who report all of their cash income for taxes?
How many dentists (and physicians) are brave enough to admit to a patient about making a procedural mistake and make themselves vulnerable to lawsuit, if that mistake can be covered without the patient knowing?

Oh the righteous outrage! Gimme a break ...

 

[speedy3816]

umm ... to be technical, they didn't "hack" into anything. To hack into something means to break into someone else's hard drive and extract data. In this case, they were opening up locked files that were sent to them via email.
In any case, do you think what they did is worse than speeding on a highway, which can potentially kill people? Or cheating on taxes (which statistics show that most Americans do), that may contribute to reducing of civil services?
It's true that dentists should be held to a higher standard ... but let's not kid ourselves - dentists are not more ethical or moral than an average person, just by the sake of being in this profession.
How many practicing dentists (and physicians) do you know who report all of their cash income for taxes?
How many dentists (and physicians) are brave enough to admit to a patient about making a procedural mistake and make themselves vulnerable to lawsuit, if that mistake can be covered without the patient knowing?

Oh the righteous outrage! Gimme a break ...

First, I'm not on a high horse.

Second, question:
Surely your not making excuses for them, now are ya?

 

[speedy3816]

LIer2010,

What are you saying? That what the average American does on a daily basis is equivalent to what these guys did at IU?

Do you not have the spine to discriminate between different actions?

Moral equivalency anyone?

 

[armorshell]

umm ... to be technical, they didn't "hack" into anything. To hack into something means to break into someone else's hard drive and extract data. In this case, they were opening up locked files that were sent to them via email.

Thanks for the lesson ub3r_cR@xx0r1337

In any case, do you think what they did is worse than speeding on a highway, which can potentially kill people? Or cheating on taxes (which statistics show that most Americans do), that may contribute to reducing of civil services?

Do you even realize what you're asking me? Yes I think there is a moral difference between certain acts of indiscretion. That's why we have different penalties for jaywalking and murder, because one had loftier moral implications. The same holds here.

How many practicing dentists (and physicians) do you know who report all of their cash income for taxes?
How many dentists (and physicians) would admit to patient about making a procedural mistake and make themselves vulnerable to lawsuit, if that mistake can be covered without the patient knowing?
Oh the righteous outrage! Gimme a break ...

Believe what you want, but there are plenty of people in the world who will never cheat based on morality, let alone fear of legal retribution. I personally could vouch for several cases in which dentists exposed their own error, despite the possibility of a lawsuit.

I do agree with you on one point though: I certainly don't expect dentists, or anyone for that matter, to be somehow morally or ethically superior to any other group. That's just fantasy.

 

[speedy3816]

I do agree with you on one point though: I certainly don't expect dentists, or anyone for that matter, to be somehow morally or ethically superior to any other group. That's just fantasy.

I agree here as well.

 

[motörhead]

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6482693

"The 16 suspended students received either three month, 12 month, or 24 month suspensions."

24 month suspension?

 

[speedy3816]

"The 16 suspended students received either three month, 12 month, or 24 month suspensions."

24 month suspension?

Yea, they're definitely not graduating on time...

 

[Prosthoman]

stupid, Well, I hope other dental students learn from this. Also, one comment, who was that stupid one student who reported this, he/she is a ******, he/she should have warned the students to not do this, but not report the whole school and mess up people's life like this. Some student are born just stupid. Human make mistake, and they deserve a second chance, I think the dean is over reacting. On the other side, I think hacking into a public computer, school or etc is a crime and I think the federal gov also can punish the students separately from the punishment that they get from their school. I just want to ask them:
Is it worth it?
Always think before you say something
always Think 2 times when you want to Do something
You always know, what you do is right, or wrong, Even a little kid would know that.
I would like to know how that one student feel that reported this
she/he might think he/she is a hero
damn
one more note i forgot:
you know, and eveyone knows, students cheat in all over the world and dental students are not an exception. Have you ever looked at the UNRELEASED exams? Or Asking someone who has these materials that no ONE HAS? well, Or Asking your Friend, Can you tell me some of the Questions that was on the board?
come on man, EVERYONE cheat one way or another
don't try to say you are an ethical person and you have never cheat because that is a bull crap

 

[parkerbros99999]

don't try to say you are an ethical person and you have never cheat because that is a bull crap

not always true. I'm not necessarily ethical but I can attest to never having cheated in dental school in any way possible.

You always needed inside connections with classmates to get hidden info. I never knew anyone in dental school and thus had to rely only on myself for everything.

 

[DrJeff]

umm ... to be technical, they didn't "hack" into anything. To hack into something means to break into someone else's hard drive and extract data. In this case, they were opening up locked files that were sent to them via email.
In any case, do you think what they did is worse than speeding on a highway, which can potentially kill people? Or cheating on taxes (which statistics show that most Americans do), that may contribute to reducing of civil services?
It's true that dentists should be held to a higher standard ... but let's not kid ourselves - dentists are not more ethical or moral than an average person, just by the sake of being in this profession.
How many practicing dentists (and physicians) do you know who report all of their cash income for taxes?
How many dentists (and physicians) are brave enough to admit to a patient about making a procedural mistake and make themselves vulnerable to lawsuit, if that mistake can be covered without the patient knowing?

Oh the righteous outrage! Gimme a break ...

I'm not exactly sure of this, and maybe Aphistis could clarify a bit being an IU guy and all, but many, if not all D-schools have an "honor code" that you take upon convocation, and as glorified as the idea sounds, it goes a long way too showing the type of moral integrity one has if they can follow it.

No if and's or but's about it, d-school is stressful, and yes there are some faculty out there who make it worse with their pre-conceived decades old views of how students should be treated, but the bottom line is an event like this does get some widespread media attention, which can bring to light some public questions about the integrity of dentists/the dental profession. This isn't a good thing for the profession. It went throufgh it a little over a decade ago when Reader's Digest did an unscientific report where they had a patient goto something like 50 dentists and also to a dental school and then they published all the proposed treatment plan findings which range from something like a couple of fillings and a crown all the way upto 28 crowns, multiple endos, etc, etc, etc. While I don't make any judgements about treatment plan interpretation and diagnosis skills/opinions, this little article, which alot of people read raised some issues of doubt in the general public about is their dentist and his/her reccomendations ethical/needed.

I'd imagine that some IU grads, practicng in the general Indiana area will have some of their patients ask them/question them more about their proposed treatment plans.

While some folks will just blow this off as no big deal, it can go along way to revealing one's true character, and the other half of that IU class really showed some strong integrity since I'd bet that more than a few of them were offered the opportunity access what the accused did.

 

[DrJeff]

One other thing that just crossed my mind, and I doubt we'll ever know this. I wonder what percentage of the accused had specialty aspirations vs. what percentage of the non accused did??? My gut instinct says there'd likely be a significant difference between the two.

 

[DrJeff]

Believe what you want, but there are plenty of people in the world who will never cheat based on morality, let alone fear of legal retribution. I personally could vouch for several cases in which dentists exposed their own error, despite the possibility of a lawsuit.

I do agree with you on one point though: I certainly don't expect dentists, or anyone for that matter, to be somehow morally or ethically superior to any other group. That's just fantasy.

The bottom line is that you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror each nite and be happy with the person you see. And before people might get some pre-concieved notion that I'm some ultra moral religous zealot, I'm not. Just brought up in an environment where the concept of treating others as you'd want to be treated and maintaining the general concept of whats right and wrong is whats important. I certainly do many things on an almost daily basis that some folks would define in their views as "immoral", but I also do alot of stuff that people would view as right

 

[Lesley]

Believe what you want, but there are plenty of people in the world who will never cheat based on morality, let alone fear of legal retribution. I personally could vouch for several cases in which dentists exposed their own error, despite the possibility of a lawsuit.

If you make a mistake, an error, you are responsible ethically and legally to explain forthrightly to the patient the situation, circumstances and consequences surrounding the problem. It should also be recorded in the patient's record. To err is human. To cover up, should their ever be a lawsuit, will greatly compound a problem. You can't control everything in life or dentistry, so even under the best of circumstances things happen. When things happen, to handle things as honestly as you can allows you to move on and sleep at night. Best Wishes.

 

[Fuji]

who was that stupid one student who reported this, he/she is a ******, he/she should have warned the students to not do this, but not report the whole school and mess up people's life like this. Some student are born just stupid. Human make mistake, and they deserve a second chance, I think the dean is over reacting. On the other side, I think hacking into a public computer, school or etc is a crime and I think the federal gov also can punish the students separately from the punishment that they get from their school. I just want to ask them:
Is it worth it?
Always think before you say something
always Think 2 times when you want to Do something
You always know, what you do is right, or wrong, Even a little kid would know that.
I would like to know how that one student feel that reported this
she/he might think he/she is a hero
damn
one more note i forgot:
you know, and eveyone knows, students cheat in all over the world and dental students are not an exception. Have you ever looked at the UNRELEASED exams? Or Asking someone who has these materials that no ONE HAS? well, Or Asking your Friend, Can you tell me some of the Questions that was on the board?
come on man, EVERYONE cheat one way or another
don't try to say you are an ethical person and you have never cheat because that is a bull crap

Wow. So many points to dismiss here I don't know where to start.

1. You criticize the person who informed the school, but should they have let their peers' unethical behavior put their (and possibly families') futures at risk? Not only would silence violate the honor code - look what that got people - but there is a good chance that the honest students' standings within the class would have been affected. If my chances at specializing are going to be jeopardize by some slacker's cheating, you better believe that I'm turning them in. Let the administration give them a warning or a second chance.

2. I don't know the details about IU, so I can't say whether or not the dean is overreacting, but if he didn't squash a scanal as wide-spread as this one would put the the credibility of the entire school into question.

3. You obviously have very little faith in humanity if you think anyone would look at unreleased exams - or would if given the chance. That is in a whole 'nother league from copying a homework assignment or looking at old tests. This IU situation has an added level of gravity because the students had to actively use a password to gain access to the tests. It's not like someone just found them in the recycling bin.

 

[SquidsLife]

I'm glad some other experienced practicioners like Dr Jeff chimed in to let these young guns know it's never ok to cheat or take short-cuts. Our personal integrity is what makes us stand out as professionals. It's also why the dental profession is always rated so highly in Harris Polls when it comes to trust.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=661

Some of you have mentioned that dentists as a group have no greater moral authority than any other group...but then that would defy the general public perception that we have the patients best interest in mind. It's contrary to the fact they would rate dentists higher than stockbrokers and real estate agents. They expect us to have more integrity than some other "groups" so why wouldn't we expect that from ourselves?

 

[speedy3816]

3. You obviously have very little faith in humanity if you think anyone would look at unreleased exams - or would if given the chance. That is in a whole 'nother league from copying a homework assignment or looking at old tests. This IU situation has an added level of gravity because the students had to actively use a password to gain access to the tests. It's not like someone just found them in the recycling bin.

Good point here...

What we have in this thread is certain commenters trying to equate two different situations that are NOT equal, and making excuses for the cheaters as well. That's what bothers me.

 

[PERFECT3435]

i too am surprised that it took this long for the the news to hit SDN. i know that pretty much everyone at IU was aware of the scandal and i am glad to see noone opened their mouth to anyone until the matter got resolved.

the thing that is a lil misleading is that everyone think these guys got a hold of the exam they were about to take. thats not true. what they did was they accessed files of x ray images or pics of a pthology case. there were most likely no questions on these slides. the thing that makes it sad is that these files probably did not do much for them on the exam. just because you can see a x ray or a pic of a lady with a tumor that will be on the exam does not necessarily help you on the exam. there could be a lot of different questions that could be asked and so by accessing these images they certainly didnt not gain a whole lot. another thing that was sad is that most of these people would have never needed to cheat.(the class is known to be pretty smart and competitve).

bottom line is what they did was wrong and they did deserve punishment but not as severe as being kicked out. one bad mistake and their lives are changed forever. i know you all will disgree on this but i think they should have been suspended and not kicked out.

just my opinion

 

[berryfremont]

i had alot to say but then realized that I didn't read all 3 articles....so yeah, those students got what was coming to them.

 

[jaxx]

I think that you are coming down way to hard on the "whistleblower" here. The students sign an honor code stating that they will not cheat nor allow cheating. The ones at fault here were the ones who cheated - not the administration - not the other students. Other posts have mentioned that the cheaters would have an advantage over the other students and this is not fair to the non-cheaters. There is too much talk in our society about not "snitching". It is like anything else, there are degrees of wrongdoing - but the fault lies with them - not in those observing the wrongdoers nor in those affected by them.

 

[esclavo]

Cheat. Get caught. Pay the price. Move on. Pretty clear. ENRON, politicians, students, whoever, the message is clear.... dishonesty can and will cost a person dearly. There is only one protection, don't do it. Stay away from the grey, and you don't have anything to worry about. After that you have to watch out for others that are cheating or walking in the grey because they could screw up your class, your test, your curve, your retirement because of their dishonesty... pretty straight forward, I can't see anyone would have a leg to stand on to argue in favor of the students caught or against the university taking whatever action necessary to send the message and reward the dishonest! Even the little stuff can bite you.... pirated music, etcetera.... if caught you don't have a leg to stand on... if you do it that is one thing but to do it and get caught and then whine about the punishment is assinine!

 

[speedy3816]

Cheat. Get caught. Pay the price. Move on. Pretty clear. ENRON, politicians, students, whoever, the message is clear.... dishonesty can and will cost a person dearly. There is only one protection, don't do it. Stay away from the grey, and you don't have anything to worry about. After that you have to watch out for others that are cheating or walking in the grey because they could screw up your class, your test, your curve, your retirement because of their dishonesty... pretty straight forward, I can't see anyone would have a leg to stand on to argue in favor of the students caught or against the university taking whatever action necessary to send the message and reward the dishonest! Even the little stuff can bite you.... pirated music, etcetera.... if caught you don't have a leg to stand on... if you do it that is one thing but to do it and get caught and then whine about the punishment is assinine!

Excellent.

That's why I'm quite surprised that some SDNs here were trying to play the Victim Card for those cheaters.

 

[PERFECT3435]

Excellent.

That's why I'm quite surprised that some SDNs here were trying to play the Victim Card for those cheaters.

nobody was trying to play anything. i think you missed the whole point. here it is again:

you do something wrong you should get punished. you accessed xrays that were going to be on the exam and you get kicked out? that is a lil too harsh. heck the guys at UNLV were signing off their own tx plans and signing off on things they probably had not performed and all they got was a year suspension.

think about it.

 

[K2 Dental]

Actually not true about the UNLV students. They did not authorize treatment that they did not do or treatment plans. They signed off on treatment notes after the fact. This was all done in order to complete their chart audits. Stupid? Yes. They also did not receive a year suspension. Their transcripts were placed on hold for 30 days and they are required to complete 1500 hours of community service in dental service. Just trying to keep the facts straight here.

 

[esclavo]

nobody was trying to play anything. i think you missed the whole point. here it is again:

you do something wrong you should get punished. you accessed xrays that were going to be on the exam and you get kicked out? that is a lil too harsh. heck the guys at UNLV were signing off their own tx plans and signing off on things they probably had not performed and all they got was a year suspension.

think about it.

Like the sage once said, "you get to choose what decision you'll make but you don't get to choose the consequence it will bring.... choose well!"

Or another wise person said, make decisions based upon what consequences you'll be able to live with!

 

[PERFECT3435]

Actually not true about the UNLV students. They did not authorize treatment that they did not do or treatment plans. They signed off on treatment notes after the fact. This was all done in order to complete their chart audits. Stupid? Yes. They also did not receive a year suspension. Their transcripts were placed on hold for 30 days and they are required to complete 1500 hours of community service in dental service. Just trying to keep the facts straight here.

even better. just a slap on the wrist right?

 

[1992Corolla]

UNLV isn't IU.

Different schools, different circumstances, different punishments.

I wasn't involved so I can't say whether the punishment fit the crime...HOWEVER this only confirms a valid point already made in this discussion:

Don't CHEAT. I hope my firends from undergrad in the 2009 class were not involved, and if they were...keep up hope guys!

 

[pstudebaker]

A lot of misinformation about this incident has been presented by the media. Here are the facts behind what the "scandal" involves:

• All of the exams at IU during the 2nd year are "integrated," meaning there is one exam each month that consists of questions from all of the courses the students are taking at that time. For some courses, specifically pathology and radiology, there are some questions that pertain to images. Typically, those questions that pertain to the images make up 10-20% of the respective course's score on that exam; the other ~80% are didactic multiple-choice questions that do not relate to the images. The image files themselves typically contained ~2 images per subject. There were NO answers and NO questions given anywhere in the files; the questions that pertained to the image files were given on the hard copy of the exam, the day of the exam, and were never seen by any students beforehand.
• The images were posted on the university's intranet five to seven, or more, days before the exam. Students were encouraged, by faculty, to download the files well in advance of the exam - at no point were university computers "hacked." On test day, the hard copy of the exam was distributed, and printed on the front page was a password that unlocked the image file. The university requires that students purchase laptops before entering the program, so the students would unlock the previously downloaded file on their laptop during the exam. (Note: all students' laptops are required to have wireless capabilities, and the school's wireless network is widely available in all test-taking sites; it was not necessary, in any sense, for the file to be made available in advance of the exam)
• The image files were distributed to students in a password-protected ZIP file. The passwords were typically 4-6 letter lowercase words. Some of the passwords used include "photon," "turkey," "blizzard," and in the case of one endodontics image file, "endo." In a few cases, professors actually repeated passwords from previous years' exams. Thus, those passwords were plainly printed on the cover page of previous years' exams. (Note: the use of previous years' exams is allowed at IU)
• In many cases students used free, downloadable, and widely available software from the internet to extract the passwords from the files before the exam. Those passwords got passed around the class.

 

[dentalman]

So, if all of the above is true, and all the "cheaters" got was access to pictures with no answers, then I would have to agree that getting kicked out is excessive. Or is there something else?

 

[DDS 08]

I know several of the students that got kicked out, and I think they all got what they had coming. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but did it anyway. Keep in mind this was not an isolated event, but they did this over the of multiple (10+) exams. They may not have had access to the actual questions, but I bet if they could have hacked into those they would have. What they did affects all of us associated with IUSD and the dental community. I have patients ask me about what happened everyday and it is an uncomfortable situation. Perfect, I know you spent time in class with these students, but the punishments did fit the crimes.

 

[JavadiCavity]

Boot 'em long and hard. We don't need cheaters in our profession. Society has gotten soft on cheating. The idea that "everyone cheats, so it's not too bad" is a poor excuse for act that weakens our profession and society. Granted, many dental students cheat. But, it's our responsibility to impose the stiffest penalties on cheaters when we are aware of the act. One of the cornerstones of our profession is trust. If patients can't trust their dentists, then our way of life will go south. I respect Indiana's decision...especially in the wake of UConn and UNLV. Good move!

 

[Lesley]

Boot 'em long and hard. We don't need cheaters in our profession. Society has gotten soft on cheating. The idea that "everyone cheats, so it's not too bad" is a poor excuse for act that weakens our profession and society. Granted, many dental students cheat. But, it's our responsibility to impose the stiffest penalties on cheaters when we are aware of the act. One of the cornerstones of our profession is trust. If patients can't trust their dentists, then our way of life will go south. I respect Indiana's decision...especially in the wake of UConn and UNLV. Good move!

and lets not forget UMDNJ...it's becoming almost rampant.

 

[speedy3816]

Boot 'em long and hard. We don't need cheaters in our profession. Society has gotten soft on cheating. The idea that "everyone cheats, so it's not too bad" is a poor excuse for act that weakens our profession and society. Granted, many dental students cheat. But, it's our responsibility to impose the stiffest penalties on cheaters when we are aware of the act. One of the cornerstones of our profession is trust. If patients can't trust their dentists, then our way of life will go south. I respect Indiana's decision...especially in the wake of UConn and UNLV. Good move!

Ah yes, the voice of experience. Thanks Javadi for weighing in

Maybe some of the pre-d's around here will pay attention and learn something about life.

 

[PERFECT3435]

So, if all of the above is true, and all the "cheaters" got was access to pictures with no answers, then I would have to agree that getting kicked out is excessive. Or is there something else?

everything the poster wrote is accurate and true.
i have never said that they did not deserve punishment. i am simply arguing that the punishment (get kicked out) was too severe. it is ok to be a little forgiving in my opinion. they made a really bad mistake and it cost them way too much. i would have suspended them for a number of years but not kick them out if it was up to me. but i am just a lil more tolerant and sympathetic.

 

[Jaybe]

In times like these, I like to borrow a line or two from Willie Nelson:

"Its time the long arm of the law, put a few more in the ground. . . "

Nows about time for a good ole Indiana hangin'. Lets stretch some necks folks - these cheeters got it comin'. Plus, I heard ole man Jenkins is missin some chickens. Whadya bet one these cheaters prolly stole 'em. Let's get 'em!

 

[dentalman]

Okay, I just read the third article. Using code-cracking software is not cool. That is trying too hard (to do something they know they shouldn't). I can see how it ballooned into a problem when they wanted to share the information with other students. The whole situation is not good.

 

[ou_jay]

I agree with booting them. They were cheaters and there is no reason to be soft on cheating, but maybe there could be some repercussions for lazy professors as well. Seriously, they could at least change the passwords form year to year. At our school exams aren't released and lots of tests never change, but you know this leads to cheating. I think we should require the professors to do a little work and make new tests each year.

 

[pmantz]

So, if all of the above is true, and all the "cheaters" got was access to pictures with no answers, then I would have to agree that getting kicked out is excessive. Or is there something else?

They had a unfair advantage over the other students, that is cheating. It doesn't matter, if they didn't have the answers. They had knowledge of testing material that other students didn't have. The answere is clear cut if you ask me.

 

[divertete]

Today we heard a special announcement in one of our classes about all of the students who were disciplined at IU for "violating the honor code." When someone asked what they had done, our professor replied, "they were passing around old exams." At which point people started getting a little panicky... "but we do that too!" Well yeah, in our school-sanctioned test file. Uhhh thanks to my school for manipulating the situation in an attempt to scare us straight.

Our faculty have heard presentations about the "millennials," a weird but supposedly modern term for our generation. Apparently we have a skewed sense of ethics, and tend to turn a blind eye when we see others doing something wrong. I sort of laughed it off when I first heard of this, but now I can't help but think that it's true. I feel worst for the people who were punished for knowing what was going on but not reporting it, because I can definitely see myself in that situation.

 

[darksky]

to err is human

to lie is human

to cheat is human

i wonder why there are so many students cheat ? survival of the fittest ?

 

[Tiramisu]

Boot 'em long and hard. We don't need cheaters in our profession. Society has gotten soft on cheating. The idea that "everyone cheats, so it's not too bad" is a poor excuse for act that weakens our profession and society. Granted, many dental students cheat. But, it's our responsibility to impose the stiffest penalties on cheaters when we are aware of the act. One of the cornerstones of our profession is trust. If patients can't trust their dentists, then our way of life will go south. I respect Indiana's decision...especially in the wake of UConn and UNLV. Good move!

UCONN? or did you mean New Jersey?

 

[Lesley]

Our faculty have heard presentations about the "millennials," a weird but supposedly modern term for our generation.

I've also heard the generation born between 1982-2003 called "Generation Y." That would include both my kids. I read a very interesting article that said this generation will make changes to our current socio-economic system.

 

[pmantz]

UCONN? or did you mean New Jersey?

UCONN had a cheating scandal as well.