PhD/PsyD Informal post-doc hours, transferable between states?

[MakingProgress]

A bit of backstory: I went on the academic job market last year and arranged to take a position as an assistant professor wherein I'd teach grad/undergrad classes, supervise students, and essentially get enough clinical hours through these experiences to be licensed within 1.5 to 2 years. I've decided to go on the job market again this year and I can't find information about what happens to my supervised clinical hours if I move to a different state without already being licensed. Do I lose them? Do I need to bank them somewhere to have them count towards future licensure? Any feedback, advice, or other experiences would be very much appreciated. There is no way to tell which states I may be moving to at this time, as both my spouse and I will be applying to academic jobs and our list of possible outcomes is about 20 states wide. Thanks!

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[WisNeuro]

Were you doing clinical work? Teaching and supervising students does not count as post doc clinical hours in most jurisdictions. Additionally, were you supervised during these experiences?

 

[MakingProgress]

Great questions, thanks for pointing those out. Yes, I'm doing approximately 5-8 hours of direct face-to-face therapy per week and I'm being supervised by a licensed clinical psychologist.

 

[WisNeuro]

Great questions, thanks for pointing those out. Yes, I'm doing approximately 5-8 hours of direct face-to-face therapy per week and I'm being supervised by a licensed clinical psychologist.

Depends on the state, then. For some states, that is less than part-time, and may not count. How long has your supervisor been independently licensed? In some states, they need to have been licensed for X number of years for their supervision to count. Do you have a supervision log?

 

[MakingProgress]

Ah, those are interesting wrinkles - thanks for making me aware of them! The supervisor has been licensed for over 10 years, so I'm hoping that would be above the minimum for most states.

I do have a supervision log. I had planned to keep track of my supervision hours (with a breakdown of clinical, supervision, research, and teaching hours supervised from the prior week) through printed logs that would be signed and dated during each individual supervision.

 

[WisNeuro]

Ah, those are interesting wrinkles - thanks for making me aware of them! The supervisor has been licensed for over 10 years, so I'm hoping that would be above the minimum for most states.

I do have a supervision log. I had planned to keep track of my supervision hours (with a breakdown of clinical, supervision, research, and teaching hours supervised from the prior week) through printed logs that would be signed and dated during each individual supervision.

The breakdown won't matter in most states, they'll just be interested in how many face-to-face clinical hours you engaged in clinical work (intervention/assessment) that was supervised. Most places do not count your research and teaching as hours towards licensure.

 

[erg923]

The breakdown won't matter in most states, they'll just be interested in how many face-to-face clinical hours you engaged in clinical work (intervention/assessment) that was supervised. Most places do not count your research and teaching as hours towards licensure.

I'm curious how people who go into academic jobs in psychology departments right after internship can ever get licensed in states that require 1800 hour (500-600 f2f) clinical post-docs...which is still the majority of states?

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm curious how people who go into academic jobs in psychology departments right after internship can ever get licensed in states that require 1800 hour (500-600 f2f) clinical post-docs...which is still the majority of states?

Some states will let you do it part-time over x number of years. My academic advisor (R1) was able to get licensed, but she planned for it and did so many hours of supervised clinical work every week to meet the state requirement.

 

[ClinicalABA]

...I'm doing approximately 5-8 hours of direct face-to-face therapy per week

As Wisneuro points out, this may be an issue. In my state of primary Licensure (MA), you need 1600 hours in not more than 36 months. At 8 hours per week that would take almost 4 years, so wouldn't qualify. Also, you need a minimum ratio of 1 hour supervision for every 16 hours clinical work, and you have to receive supervision at least weekly. Your arrangement- assuming weekly supervision- would result in you getting 1 hour of supervision for 5-8 hours of clinical work, which is not a very efficient endeavor for your supervisor. I remember the requirements being similar in the other state I'm licensed in (CT). I'd suggest that you take a look at the requirement from any states where you could imagine yourself being (and then look at the regs in the bordering states). Aim to meet the post-doc requirements of the state with the most stringent regs and biggest requirement, just in case.

As for "banking the hours"- keep a log and have your supervisor sign off on all hours (e.g, sign a form at the end of each supervision). If you or your supervisor end the relationship for any reason, be sure to get and maintain contact information, as you will likely need them to sign off on some sort of verification form for your licensure application.

 

[MakingProgress]

Thank you all for your input! This has been extremely helpful.

 

[SLB-CO]

I'm curious how people who go into academic jobs in psychology departments right after internship can ever get licensed in states that require 1800 hour (500-600 f2f) clinical post-docs...which is still the majority of states?

I'm doing this now. I had great buy-outs my first year that helped with this, but this year is a bit of a bear. My state requires 500 f-f hours (2000 total) in a 24-months period, but I'm aiming to hit 600 to be safe in case I transfer states in the future. Although my state only requires that 50% of my hours be directly related to clinical work, I've worked out my teaching load so that I'm participating in more clinical type activities that are more easily transferable between states. The biggest hurdle is time, absolutely. It's a constant grind. I still think it's worth it as opposed to having done a clinical post-doc in my circumstance.