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Husker Jay

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Just curious if anyone knows means/standard deviations for EM1, EM2, and EM3 residents. I have a number sitting in front of me and I really don't know what it means. I know ABEM says residencies aren't supposed to use these numbers to compare residents, programs, or use for promotion. They are supposed to be used to track an individuals progress through residency (but that's no fun).
 

rustybruce

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I think we all should congratulate apollyon for his excellent score. I am sure the other residents in the ED are proud of him for scoring the highest and even being better than one of the second years. This reminds me of one time when, in sixth grade, one of the fifth graders beat my buddy on the state-wide math test and then he went and told everybody and my mom ended up finding out and she wanted to know why I didn't score the best the year before and then I said that maybe I did and I never told you because it might seem ridiculous for me to brag...like a fourth grader.

Just kidding Apollyon, congrats. ;)
 

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Congratulations, Apollyon, from a fellow North Carolinian.

I haven't seen mine yet. Hopefully, they'll be in my mailbox in the morning. I may go check my mailbox tonight, matter of fact...been waiting to see these things long enough.
 
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jpgreer13 said:
Congratulations, Apollyon, from a fellow North Carolinian.

I haven't seen mine yet. Hopefully, they'll be in my mailbox in the morning. I may go check my mailbox tonight, matter of fact...been waiting to see these things long enough.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts you did better than me. Are you going to be on your program's Jeopardy! team at the June Jam?
 

A little elf

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Whooooooooooooo cares? The inservice exam is a marker to judge yourself against, shouldn't be a measure of you against your classmates...just a thought....you're all going to pass the EM boards when you're done...this isn't med school, shouldn't be competing against your classmates.
 
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jpgreer13

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I think a little friendly competition is motivational, generally, if you're the type of person who thrives on competition (and many of us who ended up in medicine are Type A by nature). It doesn't have to be malicious or cut-throat, but if trying to out-do others inspires you to read more and learn more, this can only make you a better doctor in the end, so what's the harm? It's only when you get malignant and start talking trash that it becomes counter-productive, I think.

And Apollyon, I think in my world-view, doughnuts may be a more valuable currency than dollars.
 

jpgreer13

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Scores in today here at ECU. Can't say I was too displeased with mine.

Just for comparison with other programs out there, our top third year scored 94, our top second year scored 82, and our top intern scored 93.

And that top intern...was me. :D

(Sorry, folks. Didn't mean to get all gloaty. But I HAD to tell somebody before I exploded.)
 

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jpgreer13 said:
Scores in today here at ECU. Can't say I was too displeased with mine.

Just for comparison with other programs out there, our top third year scored 94, our top second year scored 82, and our top intern scored 93.

And that top intern...was me. :D

(Sorry, folks. Didn't mean to get all gloaty. But I HAD to tell somebody before I exploded.)

What is the score? Is it a percentage, a percentile?

Mike
 

DrQuinn

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jpgreer13 said:
Scores in today here at ECU. Can't say I was too displeased with mine.

Just for comparison with other programs out there, our top third year scored 94, our top second year scored 82, and our top intern scored 93.

And that top intern...was me. :D

(Sorry, folks. Didn't mean to get all gloaty. But I HAD to tell somebody before I exploded.)

Damn! 93%! Strong work! :clap:
I scored 78%.

Q, DO
 

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There were 4 programs nationally that scored the highest overall on this exam, and King/Drew was one of them. Tied for #1 with 3 other programs. And, the junior class was 2nd nationally (last year they were first). I guess when you're at the top, you can only do worse. I guess this program is doing something right, despite the problems with the hospital. I have to wonder if maybe this is indeed a top program. And if not, exactly why not? It seems they get good training, being in the "bad part of town", and as of the last few years, have been doing awesome on the exams. Perhaps I should reconsider my opinion about this California program? Opinions?
 

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jpgreer13 said:
Q - ain't nothin' wrong with 78%. You beat the intern national average with that score. Solid, my friend.

I'm pleased with my score. Scored higher than i thought. But wow, you rocked! Strong work! Do you usually do well on standardized exams (USMLE?).

NICE!

SDN Love for you: :clap:

Q, DO
 
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jpgreer13 said:
I did okay on Steps 1/2 (242-249, solid, not stellar).

My secret appears to be reading Tintinalli, then Rivers, then Pearls in EM, and not having much of a social life.

If you read Tintinalli, Rivers, and Pearls in EM this year, you deserve the 93. Congratulations.
 

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While I think it is awesome people are proud of their scores...this discussion is ******ed...there, I said it. What are you guys gonna do when you can no longer place a number next to your name to evaluate your worth...or will that be your salary? You guys know as much as I do, passing is all that matters regarding the written test. And it has ZERO correlation to the ability or type of EM doc you are...it is simply a weed out for bad ones.
Don't get me wrong, the inservice exam is important to insure quality guide progress, but posting your scores? Come-on...
 

Freeeedom!

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Nope, I wasn't offended, just thought the discussion was...well, silly. While inservice exam scores correlate with written board exam scores and they are absolutely necessary. The conversation seemed to be heading south into conversations found throughout this board "scores scores and more scores". I think we should put those "number wars" behind us and focus on other things. Just pass...then shut it.
Keep on rockin.

Spoken like a true chief.
 

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Freeeedom! said:
Nope, I wasn't offended, just thought the discussion was...well, silly. While inservice exam scores correlate with written board exam scores and they are absolutely necessary. The conversation seemed to be heading south into conversations found throughout this board "scores scores and more scores". I think we should put those "number wars" behind us and focus on other things. Just pass...then shut it.
Keep on rockin.

Spoken like a true chief.

Oh pooh, it was all in good fun... and you know deep down you are always curious about other people's scores in correlation to your own... I know i sure was. AND I can totally understand how JPGreer was stoked about his high score, he definately should be!

We're all colleagues now as EM residents, and will always be as fellow ABEM certified (ABOEM to my other DO homies), so in the end none of this matters. But its interesting nonetheless to talk about it, and hey, if you want, post your scores.

Q, DO
 

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Reg said:
There were 4 programs nationally that scored the highest overall on this exam, and King/Drew was one of them. Tied for #1 with 3 other programs. And, the junior class was 2nd nationally (last year they were first). I guess when you're at the top, you can only do worse. I guess this program is doing something right, despite the problems with the hospital. I have to wonder if maybe this is indeed a top program. And if not, exactly why not? It seems they get good training, being in the "bad part of town", and as of the last few years, have been doing awesome on the exams. Perhaps I should reconsider my opinion about this California program? Opinions?


Where did you get this information? Are you a resident there?
 

Reg

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I am a medical student rotating through their emergency department. You should see how happy everyone is. Apparently this isn't something new. Last year they were 3rd overall, and the intern class was first overall (either alone, or tied). It's posted all over the department. The scores are not a secret here. Apparently the programs get numbers, and are able to tell from the numbers where their program ranks (as are individual residents). Call the program and ask, I'm sure they'd be very happy to broadcast this info considering all the bad press the hospital has received in recent months.
 

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I would caution someone against picking a program based on how well its residents did on a pass-fail test. The point of residency is to learn how to do procedures and how to make decisions, not to learn how to take a test. That was what medical school was for. After residency, passing the boards should be trivial. Of course, if a large number of residents in a program aren't passing the test (or the boards), that might be something to worry about.

The point of taking the inservice test is to evaluate how well an individual resident is doing compared to the year before. Because a program was "3rd in the nation" or whatever doesn't mean it is the "3rd best program in the nation."

Remember, if a program is spending a lot of time "teaching to the test," they are spending less time teaching more practical things.

A program's inservice scores may say more about their ability to recruit good test-takers than their ability to teach.

Just a few of MHOs.
 

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Desperado said:
I would caution someone against picking a program based on how well its residents did on a pass-fail test. The point of residency is to learn how to do procedures and how to make decisions, not to learn how to take a test. That was what medical school was for. After residency, passing the boards should be trivial. Of course, if a large number of residents in a program aren't passing the test (or the boards), that might be something to worry about.

The point of taking the inservice test is to evaluate how well an individual resident is doing compared to the year before. Because a program was "3rd in the nation" or whatever doesn't mean it is the "3rd best program in the nation."

Remember, if a program is spending a lot of time "teaching to the test," they are spending less time teaching more practical things.


A program's inservice scores may say more about their ability to recruit good test-takers than their ability to teach.

Just a few of MHOs.

So true, so true. I think they actually emphasize the exam, maybe more than other programs.

Good points Desperado.
 

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I actually rotated at a program that "brags" about their in-service scores. This program actually has about 45hr/week shifts, but 10-15 hours of didactics, for which a "huge" part is spent on practicing test questions. Also they tend to attract the "excellent" test takers. Some of the residents were AOA or aced one of the steps 1 or 2 from my school.
Another program admits that they do not do well on the in-service, but they've had a 100% for the pass rate couple of years on the written...the one that counts. They see the in-service as a tool to help you pass the written. They emphasize the advantage of seeing the interesting/diverse pathology and procedures afforded by the urban location. I was equally impressed with the senior residents from both programs.
My Point...I prefer to go to a place that emphasizes the test and the "hands-on". That said, I can learn to take a test with a computer and sample questions. You can only become a better em doc by seeing patients.
 

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Is there a place where cummulative program scores are reported? You mentioned Drew was tied, is this from a public list of all programs?

Thanks and take care,
Jeff
 
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