International electives

[turkdlit]

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Hi all,

Couldn't find too much info on international ophthalmology electives using the good 'ol search function...

So, you guys/gals got any suggestions for international electives in ophthalmology? I'm looking to work in underserved/rural areas, preferably in Asia or Africa. I'm aware of "Unite for Sight" but wanted to see if anyone could offer additional ideas...

Thanks a bunch.
Turk.

 

[digitalsideburn]

I too have been looking for international ophtho volunteer opportunities for a while. I was all set to go to Ghana with Unite for Sight, but got frustrated with the process. In addition to raising $1400 for them, and paying your own way, they require a $1400 deposit to secure your spot (which isn't returned until you get back and "successfully" complete your volunteering).

The only other site that I know of that takes international medical students is Tilganga eye hospital in Nepal. website:
http://www.tilganga.org/outreach_prog.php
i'm hoping to go there for a month in late August after I turn in my SFmatch residency application.

I actually called a number of other organizations, but they only take Board certified Ophthalmologists. There will be plenty of opportunities for us when we complete our training.

If anyone else knows of international ophtho volunteer sites BESIDES Unite for Sight, please let us now!!!

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

. In addition to raising $1400 for them, and paying your own way, they require a $1400 deposit to secure your spot (which isn't returned until you get back and "successfully" complete your volunteering).

😱

The fundraising requirement used to be only $300 and the deposit was only around $100 back when I went (2005)!

 

[premeder]

you shouldnt overlook the reason for a deposit that is reimbursed. you only lose your deposit if you drop out. you would cause major logistical headaches to the organization if you drop out. so you dont risk losing your deposit unless youre irresponsible and dont keep your commitment. if you were to commit and then not actually participate you would be causing harm. the deposit makes sure you think about your commitment and know for sure that youre going to participate and follow through with your commitment.

you should also think about why you have to fundraise. its so that you can help give people sight restoration. if you want to be a unite for sight volunteer then fundraising is in your job description so you dont just go there and leave but you make a forever lasting impact. every penny of fundraising is used on giving surgery to the patients. i think its exciting to have that type of oportunity to make such a big difference.

dont overlook that all other volunteer organizations actually charge you huge administrative fees to fund their administrative expenses for coordinating your volunteer trip. UNITE FOR SIGHT DOESNT HAVE ANY ADMINISTRATIVE FEES. when youre done with your program and get your deposit reimbursed, there is not a single dollar that you would personally pay to the organization. thats rare and youre not going to find another volunteer organization where you dont have administrative fees that usually range from $1500 to $4000!

so when youre looking to volunteer keep an eye on these facts. your deposit is to make sure that you keep your commitment. your fundraising is to save people's sight.

 

[turkdlit]

Wow, this thread is alive! Thank you, sideburn, for that information, I was unaware of unite for sight's deposit requirements. Actually, I know a BPEI resident who did a month at Tilganga and he had nothing but amazing things to say about it. I imagine the goal of that organization is similar to unite for sight...and I will definately check it out.

I'll be sure to update any info I may find on other organizations. Thanks for all the replies!

Turk.

 

[digitalsideburn]

Premeder,
Thanks for your input. I know you've gone on Unite for Sight and have posted a lot about it. The organization has done and continues to do amazing things internationally. I'm sure you had an incredible time volunteering with them.

Regarding your comments- I fully understand the rationale behind the fundraising and the deposit. As a medical student entering fourth year and applying to residency all the $$$ was a little too much for me. Understand that during 4th year in addition to school, medical students spend thousands applying, traveling, on licensing exams, clothing, etc. We really don't have a lot of dispensable income around. Personally, a 1 month trip to Africa would run me $3k. On top of that i'd have to raise $1400 for unite for sight AND put in a $1400 deposit. And none of the money I raise goes towards my own costs.

There are actually numerous volunteer opportunities for medical students around the globe that do not require us to fundraise or pay administrative fees such as the one I mentioned.

It would be ideal if unite for sight would allow us to use some of the money we raise towards our travels, and could waive the deposit for medical students as we're a pretty responsible and dependable bunch.

 

[premeder]

well you know, you can raise $$ on your own for your travel costs and even do it for academic credit so your medical school can pay. i know that many volunteers don't even have to pay for travel costs out of pocket because their school pays and they get credit for unite for sight as their clinical rotation.

don't overlook that $1400 isn't a lot to raise to give people back restored sight and their livelihoods.

also be aware that you get what you pay for. unite for sight is the only organization that i know of that doesn't require an administrative fee and i don't know of any reputable organization that wouldnt require that. think about what you want out of your abroad experience: something well organized? something where you're making a difference? something where youre prepared going into it and know what to expect? in general, an organization can't give you a well organized trip or give you preparation unless they have staff. their staff have to be paid. where does the payment come from? administrative fees.

but unite for sight doesn't have administrative fees because theyre so efficient and use all of the fundraising (100%!!) on eye care programs.

sure, ive heard of rinky dink NGOs based in Africa that accept volunteers for low rates, but a lot of them are scams that take your money "for housing" (at very high housing rates in comparison to the house stays where you live) and don't have you do anything useful or productive.

and you shouldnt think of fundraising as an issue to keep you from volunteering with unite for sight. dont you want to make the greatest difference in other peoples lives as possible? with unite for sight, you fundraise to give people their sight back and help abroad to give their sight back. dont forget why you should want to volunteer: to help the greatest number of people possible.

in regards to Tilgana it is certainly a great facility that you found but i think they only take residents and ophthalmologist, or maybe those who already are applying for ophtho residency. and nepal isn't a safe country to visit so be careful. the US State Department has nepal in their short list of places where americans should not travel. their website says nepal qualifies for "Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria." i want to give you a headsup assuming you might not have known about this.

 

[turkdlit]

To be honest the more I hear about Unite on this thread the less I'm inclined to apply. I would imagine that someone who is willing to donate a month of their time to help "restore livelihood and sight" is sufficient in most cases; I don't think a $1400 pre-requisite fee should be required for a volunteer. A volunteer is a volunteer, not a fundraiser (although ideally they would be both).

On a side note, while Nepal has bouts of civil unrest I can't imagine its any more dangerous than Africa; I spent time in Nepal a few years back and there was no immediate danger, at least to me. If anyone else has had experiences with Unite or Tilgana please post your experience! This thread has been very insightful, and I do appreciate the posts thusfar, because I've learned that maybe Unite isn't for me and there may be better options available. I am waiting for a reply email from Tilanga and will post any info I get here. Thanks,

Turk.

well you know, you can raise $$ on your own for your travel costs and even do it for academic credit so your medical school can pay. i know that many volunteers don't even have to pay for travel costs out of pocket because their school pays and they get credit for unite for sight as their clinical rotation.

don't overlook that $1400 isn't a lot to raise to give people back restored sight and their livelihoods.

also be aware that you get what you pay for. unite for sight is the only organization that i know of that doesn't require an administrative fee and i don't know of any reputable organization that wouldnt require that. think about what you want out of your abroad experience: something well organized? something where you're making a difference? something where youre prepared going into it and know what to expect? in general, an organization can't give you a well organized trip or give you preparation unless they have staff. their staff have to be paid. where does the payment come from? administrative fees.

but unite for sight doesn't have administrative fees because theyre so efficient and use all of the fundraising (100%!!) on eye care programs.

sure, ive heard of rinky dink NGOs based in Africa that accept volunteers for low rates, but a lot of them are scams that take your money "for housing" (at very high housing rates in comparison to the house stays where you live) and don't have you do anything useful or productive.

and you shouldnt think of fundraising as an issue to keep you from volunteering with unite for sight. dont you want to make the greatest difference in other peoples lives as possible? with unite for sight, you fundraise to give people their sight back and help abroad to give their sight back. dont forget why you should want to volunteer: to help the greatest number of people possible.

in regards to Tilgana it is certainly a great facility that you found but i think they only take residents and ophthalmologist, or maybe those who already are applying for ophtho residency. and nepal isn't a safe country to visit so be careful. the US State Department has nepal in their short list of places where americans should not travel. their website says nepal qualifies for "Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria." i want to give you a headsup assuming you might not have known about this.

 

[premeder]

umm....africa is a continent, not a country. there are countries that are dangerous in africa. but there are also countries that are safe and peaceful. nepal wasn't always unstable and dangerous. maybe you were there when it was safe. there are a small number of countries that americans aren't supposed to travel to right now. the short list is nepal, iraq, afghanistan and some more. all im saying is be careful. you dont want to end up kidnapped because you went to a place like nepal where there is civil conflict and no us embassy in the country that can help you.

its your loss if you dont do unite for sight. youll miss an opportunity that really cant be surpassed. i wouldnt trade my unite for sight summers for anything

dont think that doctors who go abroad just feel its sufficient to volunteer their time for a limited span of time and then leave. theyre going to places without resources and they do much more than just spend time for 1 week or 1 year. doctors usually fundraise for whatever organization theyre going with whether it be fundraising in the form of $$ or in the form of tens of thousands of dollars worth of medicine or surgical equipment. its not responsible for a doctor to go from a place like the united states of america to a place with no resources and not bring permanent change with money and supplies. i know many doctors in all types of specialties who are in private practice and at medical schools who go abroad every year. i dont know any who have ever gone abroad and just volunteered time. they all collect donations and supplies every single year they go because that is what it really means to volunteer and help people abroad.

volunteering abroad is much more than the perhaps selfish motives many of us have to want a good experience that makes us feel good. i admit that my first of three unite for sight trips started as a selfish want to feel good and feel like i did something to help the world. but then i realized that being a real volunteer abroad means jumping into this opportunity that you have to make a real and total difference for people who need your help.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

umm....africa is a continent, not a country. there are countries that are dangerous in africa. but there are also countries that are safe and peaceful. nepal wasn't always unstable and dangerous. maybe you were there when it was safe. there are a small number of countries that americans aren't supposed to travel to right now. the short list is nepal, iraq, afghanistan and some more. all im saying is be careful. you dont want to end up kidnapped because you went to a place like nepal where there is civil conflict and no us embassy in the country that can help you.

its your loss if you dont do unite for sight. youll miss an opportunity that really cant be surpassed. i wouldnt trade my unite for sight summers for anything

dont think that doctors who go abroad just feel its sufficient to volunteer their time for a limited span of time and then leave. theyre going to places without resources and they do much more than just spend time for 1 week or 1 year. doctors usually fundraise for whatever organization theyre going with whether it be fundraising in the form of $$ or in the form of tens of thousands of dollars worth of medicine or surgical equipment. its not responsible for a doctor to go from a place like the united states of america to a place with no resources and not bring permanent change with money and supplies. i know many doctors in all types of specialties who are in private practice and at medical schools who go abroad every year. i dont know any who have ever gone abroad and just volunteered time. they all collect donations and supplies every single year they go because that is what it really means to volunteer and help people abroad.

volunteering abroad is much more than the perhaps selfish motives many of us have to want a good experience that makes us feel good. i admit that my first of three unite for sight trips started as a selfish want to feel good and feel like i did something to help the world. but then i realized that being a real volunteer abroad means jumping into this opportunity that you have to make a real and total difference for people who need your help.

Although there is an undertone of self-righteousness in your post, I agree with most of what you wrote.

 

[turkdlit]

umm....africa is a continent, not a country. there are countries that are dangerous in africa. but there are also countries that are safe and peaceful. nepal wasn't always unstable and dangerous. maybe you were there when it was safe. there are a small number of countries that americans aren't supposed to travel to right now. the short list is nepal, iraq, afghanistan and some more. all im saying is be careful. you dont want to end up kidnapped because you went to a place like nepal where there is civil conflict and no us embassy in the country that can help you.

its your loss if you dont do unite for sight. youll miss an opportunity that really cant be surpassed. i wouldnt trade my unite for sight summers for anything

dont think that doctors who go abroad just feel its sufficient to volunteer their time for a limited span of time and then leave. theyre going to places without resources and they do much more than just spend time for 1 week or 1 year. doctors usually fundraise for whatever organization theyre going with whether it be fundraising in the form of $$ or in the form of tens of thousands of dollars worth of medicine or surgical equipment. its not responsible for a doctor to go from a place like the united states of america to a place with no resources and not bring permanent change with money and supplies. i know many doctors in all types of specialties who are in private practice and at medical schools who go abroad every year. i dont know any who have ever gone abroad and just volunteered time. they all collect donations and supplies every single year they go because that is what it really means to volunteer and help people abroad.

volunteering abroad is much more than the perhaps selfish motives many of us have to want a good experience that makes us feel good. i admit that my first of three unite for sight trips started as a selfish want to feel good and feel like i did something to help the world. but then i realized that being a real volunteer abroad means jumping into this opportunity that you have to make a real and total difference for people who need your help.

Unfortunately this thread is on the verge of turning into personal attacks (thank you for pointing out Africa is a continent...it doesn't appear that I ever referred to Africa as a country in my post, but again thank you for that useful tidbit of information), it might be best to forget about discussing the merits of unite etc., and just ask those who know of other opportunities to post any info.

But I can't leave without bringing up a couple of thoughts. Its excellent that you had a good experience and I agree that donating money is always very useful. I don't doubt that I would also have a very enriching experience with Unite, and who knows I may end up in India with them. I do agree that doctors from the US with more money and resources should donate if they can (although, obviously I'm a medical student, not a doctor). I wouldn't call it irresponsible if they don't, but it is certainly useful if one can. I've known many students from my school who have taken regular mission trips to South America, and they do bring supplies and treat the locals - I certainly wouldn't call them irresponsible by any stretch for not donating $1000+, because they certainly don't do that; I would call them generous for donating their time and efforts.

I would like to know a couple of things. If you are so selfless with volunteering your time and money for those who really need it, why discourage people to go to places like Nepal because they, "dont want to end up kidnapped because you went to a place like nepal where there is civil conflict and no us embassy in the country that can help you." I would imagine, in your altriusm, that those in nepal would also appreciate your efforts. Maybe if Unite develops a program there you will feel differently.

I would also like to know, if you are a medical student (we can only assume you're a pre-meder); because unless you're $200K in debt like many of us, you won't appreciate what $1400 means at this juncture of your life. And thats not a selfish attitude, its a realistic one.

Turk.

 

[premeder]

i read my post again and dont see it as anything negative. im sorry if it came across that way.

im not discouraging you from going to nepal. im just wanting to promote that you volunteer with safety in mind because well being is important. if you were to get injured or kidnapped then you wouldnt be able to volunteer or be a doctor.

you asked my background. i graduated in may with an MD and i already have an MPH. i have the same debt issues as everyone else. my experience on the public health issues comes from two sources- book knowledge from my mph and real world experience with unite for sight. i feel very strongly about international health and worry a great deal about individuals or organizations who can sometimes do "more harm than good" when they go with unethical ngos that have a bandaid approach that is almost always more detrimental than beneficial. there are multitudes of public health issues to consider with volunteer programs and there are too many that do it the wrong way. my mph program taught much about this and it was my thesis topic. without boring you, i hope that everyone reading this thread will keep some things in mind when they volunteer abroad now or in their future lives.

(1) you have to augment the work of the local docs, not displace local docs
(2) you have to work with local docs, never independent from local docs. the local docs will always be there. you will not always be there. if youre wanting to go somewhere that there is no local doc then you need to search for a doc somewhere around there and work with that doc. again, that doc will always be there. you will not.
(3) make a lasting difference even after you leave. your time is important, but equally so are fund raising and supplies.
(4) dont join an organization so you can help minimally but add it to your resume. do not volunteer abroad so you can help your resume. volunteer abroad because you want to make the greatest impact that you can.
(5) read things about ethical volunteering before you go. ethical volunteering means that you do the 4 steps above. ethical volunteering means that you make a lasting impact that has enormous benefits for the community and country.