Interview 2007

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LoaLoa said:
If I remember correctly I did not have to pay for the hotel--they picked up the tab--and I think this is still how it's done. The hotel itself (the Brookwood) is not great, though it is decent, but it is across the street from the hospital, which is a big advantage on interview day.
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so did you make your own reservations? I need to email the coordinator to find out.
 
sapience8x said:
so did you make your own reservations? I need to email the coordinator to find out.
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I emailed Debra and she apologized for the oversight and said she would make the reservation and send me the confirmation number. Haven't heard back yet, but my interview isn't until December.
 
Hello all! I'm new here 😉

Interviews thus far:
Loyola (#1)
UIC
Ball Memorial (may cancel)

No luck:
Northwestern

Still waiting:
Chicago
Rush
Cook County
SLU
Wash U

I'm looking to stay in the Chicago area so those programs are my top picks, if any one has info on those give me a shout!

M
 
Y-incision said:
Hello all! I'm new here 😉

Interviews thus far:
Loyola (#1)
UIC
Ball Memorial (may cancel)

No luck:
Northwestern

Still waiting:
Chicago
Rush
Cook County
SLU
Wash U

I'm looking to stay in the Chicago area so those programs are my top picks, if any one has info on those give me a shout!

M
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Congrats and good luck!
 
Thanks!

I got the requests all by email btw.
 
for those of you w an invitation to ucla:

if you are planning to interview, have you heard back yet w a date confirmation? and if so, did they tell you if dec is no longer available?

i have emailed twice regarding a dec date and am yet to hear back....i hate to be so aggressive but i need to arrange flights and holiday plans.

thanks in advance.
 
I just reviewed my CAF and I realized that I had accidently changed the dates of my prior anesthesiology training from "7/2004" to "7/2003" to 9/2006. It lists the length of my time in anesthesiology so I think that the mistake is obvious as a typo but now I'm worried that it makes me look insanely unprofessional.

YIKES😱 !!
 
Vaderize said:
I just reviewed my CAF and I realized that I had accidently changed the dates of my prior anesthesiology training from "7/2004" to "7/2003" to 9/2006. It lists the length of my time in anesthesiology so I think that the mistake is obvious as a typo but now I'm worried that it makes me look insanely unprofessional.
YIKES😱 !!
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I just got a copy of my MSPE/Dean's Letter in the mail today and it listed my class rank in the bottom third (wrong!😡 )...probably makes me look like more of an idiot than I really am.🙄 😱
 
Hello everyone,

I feel obligated to write something since I've been reading the comments on this forum. I'm an MS4 applying for path residency.

Interviews I have:
Wash U: this monday
U of Minnesota
U of Washington
Stanford
Yale
Cornell
UCLA: they didn't respond with a date yet. I'm in the same situation as you are sequela. I'll be happy if I could get December since I'll be in Southern CA.

So far no rejections. 🙂

Still waiting on a few other programs.

Some how the programs that are lower on my list haven't given me interviews yet while some of the ones that I thought were long shots gave me early invitations, like within 5 days-2weeks of turning in my incomplete application. It's getting kind of scary since most of the programs I've gotten interviews at are pretty competitive = I might not get in anywhere. I also sent in my application a little later than most of you in the forum (Oct. 12 then a week later decide to apply to Yale and Wash U). It's only been a little over 3 weeks... I just don't have the virtue of patience when it comes to waiting for responses.

I do have a question about Stanford that maybe someone can answer: I heard from a path resident at my school today who have interviewed at Stanford last year that they prefer to rank people that have done away rotations at Stanford. After the resident sent a letter saying he'll be ranking Stanford #1, Stanford's PD told him people who did rotations at Stanford are rank higher (implying he shouldn't get his hopes up?). This resident seems well qualified, had the letters, the grades, AOA. The resident decided to stay in the same area as med school due to family and ranked Stanford as #2. Why would they interview 60 people last year if they only wanted the ones who did away rotations? Any idea to the validity of this away rotation in relations to ranking at Stanford?

I thank everyone for the info posted here. Good luck to all those applying/interviewing out there!
 
just declined UCLA and am debating UVA and UWash, also. Any advice? (i.e. Are they overall better than:
Harvard (my dream school so it's hard for me to be impartial)
Columbia
UPenn (CP very strong but how 'bout AP)
Hopkins
WashU
UCSF (seems like a Brigham clone...lots of former faculty/trainees)
Stanford (overrated? CP seems weak)

I've realized there is minimal danger of me not matching...so, I wanna save some $ and time.)
 
Hi,

I was wondering about the average number/range of applicants various programs have per year. Do they typically stack interviews or have people come by individually? Also, where do applicants stay overnight and is there ever partial coverage of airfare?
 
sequela said:
for those of you w an invitation to ucla:

if you are planning to interview, have you heard back yet w a date confirmation? and if so, did they tell you if dec is no longer available?

i have emailed twice regarding a dec date and am yet to hear back....i hate to be so aggressive but i need to arrange flights and holiday plans.

thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I have yet to hear back either. I am just going to call on Monday. I am trying to set one up for the day after I leave San Diego and right before I leave for Boston.
 
Turandot said:
Some how the programs that are lower on my list haven't given me interviews yet while some of the ones that I thought were long shots gave me early invitations, like within 5 days-2weeks of turning in my incomplete application. It's getting kind of scary since most of the programs I've gotten interviews at are pretty competitive = I might not get in anywhere. I also sent in my application a little later than most of you in the forum (Oct. 12 then a week later decide to apply to Yale and Wash U). It's only been a little over 3 weeks... I just don't have the virtue of patience when it comes to waiting for responses.

I do have a question about Stanford that maybe someone can answer: I heard from a path resident at my school today who have interviewed at Stanford last year that they prefer to rank people that have done away rotations at Stanford. After the resident sent a letter saying he'll be ranking Stanford #1, Stanford's PD told him people who did rotations at Stanford are rank higher (implying he shouldn't get his hopes up?). This resident seems well qualified, had the letters, the grades, AOA. The resident decided to stay in the same area as med school due to family and ranked Stanford as #2. Why would they interview 60 people last year if they only wanted the ones who did away rotations? Any idea to the validity of this away rotation in relations to ranking at Stanford?

I thank everyone for the info posted here. Good luck to all those applying/interviewing out there!
Click to expand...

i too have yet to hear from my "safe" programs. i got brigham in less than 5 days of turning in my application. i was thinking about withdrawing my application from these safe programs (since i literally have like 3 interview days available in my schedule at this point). but like you, i am afraid of the possiblity of not matching at one of these big ones simply because they are sooooo damn popular. i have 17 interviews so far so i know i'll match but it's hard to tell where and when to stop since nearly all of my programs are desirable in some way (name, location, etc). i just don't know.

as far as stanford goes, your comment is true to some degree. i know that they really like to know an appliant prior to ranking and naturally people who do an away there are at an advantage because they have put in their time, shown their strengths and ability to get along and clearly, shown interest in their program. i mean that's pretty big to fly out and set up shop (and spend lots of $$$$) for a whole month to check out a program. having said that, perhaps this could be said about most institutions, i mean after all, that IS the point of an away elective. it pulls you outta the applicant pile in a way that is clearly very effective. in fact, it seems so obvious to me that one should do an away where they want to go.

however, i don't know and have never heard that they ONLY rank such people. and of course, there is the possibilty that they don't want a person who rotated for one reason or another. and you figure that people who do aways at a place like stanford have a shot at other such institutions and so they probably have interviews at many well respected places. in other words, they may stray elsewhere. so, it would be kinda silly of a program to put all their eggs in such baskets and risk not filling. in other words, they must have to rank non-away people too.

but, it is possible that the yr your friend ranked stanford, there may have been many (as in enough to fill ALL spots) well qualified away students that filled the list quite readily and so it was possible to be very picky...that may not be the case this yr.

so, i wouldn't give up hope and from the sound of it, you can at least depend on them being honest w you about your chances which if you ask me, is really respectable. especially at times like these.

welcome and good luck.
 
UCSFbound said:
I have yet to hear back either. I am just going to call on Monday. I am trying to set one up for the day after I leave San Diego and right before I leave for Boston.
Click to expand...

i think calling might be the way to go. my hope is that we will all get the dates we want since it seems that no dates have been confirmed. i think we all got our invites around or on the same day and if they are inviting people by date of submission, there can't be too many invites out there that have preceded us. right?

i have to say that programs w prompt responses have an advantage especially this late in the season.


good luck.
 
The number(s) provided to me are challenging to locate. It would be more feasible if the program(s) were more available.
 
UCSFbound said:
I have yet to hear back either. I am just going to call on Monday.
Click to expand...

Just a little warning. I called on Friday to follow up, and the response was in this tone:

Me: "Hi, I'm pathlover, and I was invited for an interview."

UCLA: "You need to send me your dates by email."

Me: "Yes, I did that a couple of days ago, I was just following up to see which dates are available."

UCLA: "Honey, you ALL emailed me a couple of days ago, I'll get back to you when I'm ready."

Me: "Sorry mam, I look forward to hearing from you. Goodbye." Click

Anyhow, UCLA is not really on the ball as far as I can tell.

Here's my latest:

👍 UCSD, Stanford, Baylor-Houston, UT-Houston, UCI, UCD, Cedars, USC, U of A, UCLA (yet to be scheduled)

Waiting on: UCSF, Harbor-UCLA (doesn't matter much at this point)

🙂
 
I am like some of the PPs. I have some big name interviews to go to but am concerned that I may not have a chance there. I was going to cancel at 2 safeties bvut that leaves me with 8 interviews, 4 at big names. I am waiting on 2 that aren't as big. But I figure out of 8 programs i shoudl be able to match somewhere. right?:scared:

okay when to start panicking about getting an invite to someplace you really want to go? and do al places send out rejections or do they just leave you hanging?
 
sapience8x said:
and do al places send out rejections or do they just leave you hanging?
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I want to know. Are programs required to inform you one way or another of their decision?

E-Mo
 
ermonty said:
This is exactly what I want to know. Are programs required to inform you one way or another of their decision?

E-Mo
Click to expand...

Programs are not required to inform you of their decision. Many of those programs will say; “your application is on hold” if you contact them.
 
sequela said:
for those of you w an invitation to ucla:

if you are planning to interview, have you heard back yet w a date confirmation? and if so, did they tell you if dec is no longer available?

i have emailed twice regarding a dec date and am yet to hear back....i hate to be so aggressive but i need to arrange flights and holiday plans.

thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


I just heard back from UCLA today, they gave me a Dec. date three days earlier than the one I requested...so apparently Dec. is still open somewhat
 
iheartpath said:
I just heard back from UCLA today, they gave me a Dec. date three days earlier than the one I requested...so apparently Dec. is still open somewhat
Click to expand...

Heard back too in a very curt and unpleasant manner. Requested a date for next week, but got stuck with December. Something tells me this woman is quite unhappy.
 
So if a program puts you on hold, does that mean you are automatically going to get rejected, or is there a chance you might get an invite, like if someone else cancels?
 
UCSFbound said:
Heard back too in a very curt and unpleasant manner. Requested a date for next week, but got stuck with December. Something tells me this woman is quite unhappy.
Click to expand...

I also heard back from UCLA today. December date as well. Still waiting on UCSF, but with 10 interviews already, I don't know if I want to waste the airfare/hotel for UCSF since they're so competetive. We'll see I guess.
 
got my dec ucla date.

i think i'm done scheduling interviews. the only place i haven't heard from is columbia. (oh yeah and my small handful of safe schools and it doesn't make any sense that they would say nothing by this point but as it turns out, i don't even have the time).
 
sequela said:
got my dec ucla date.

i think i'm done scheduling interviews. the only place i haven't heard from is columbia. (oh yeah and my small handful of safe schools and it doesn't make any sense that they would say nothing by this point but as it turns out, i don't even have the time).
Click to expand...

I just had my first interview today (with 7 different faculty members) and let me tell you, I may only be able to keep up the facade of an always attentive and interested applicant for like 5 more of these friggin things. I think I may end up not going to a few of mine. Ugh.
 
So I think that I am going to have a conniption, full blown, whatever the hell one actually is. Still waiting to hear from a few places...actually, only heard from 6/14 places that I applied to. Waiting for Wake Forest, UNC, Colorado in particular. Is this unusual? At what point should one 'give up' on hearing from a program?
 
UCSFbound said:
I just had my first interview today (with 7 different faculty members) and let me tell you, I may only be able to keep up the facade of an always attentive and interested applicant for like 5 more of these frigging things. I think I may end up not going to a few of mine. Ugh.
Click to expand...
Don't let some people know about your facade :meanie: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=330631
They can be rough. I think it helps to prepare yourself. Think about what they are going to ask and have things to ask.
One of the things that helped me ask questions was a sheet that I had that covered all "quantifiables" about each program. Helped me to remember to ask questions (book fund, cut schedule, microscopes...)
That and ask the same question to multiple people, man in some programs you get wildly different answers.
And in the end, most people do end up canceling some of their interviews. It is hard not to get burned out by the end.
 
UCSFbound said:
I just had my first interview today (with 7 different faculty members) and let me tell you, I may only be able to keep up the facade of an always attentive and interested applicant for like 5 more of these friggin things. I think I may end up not going to a few of mine. Ugh.
Click to expand...

i just had my first too and yes, it's gonna take it's toll pretty quick. i find just getting to the interview (ie lodging, transportation, blah blah) tiring.

having several interviews will force me to be myself (which may be difficult at first because you want to always say the right thing, be the person they want, etc.) ...i think your sense of humor and general temperment will take over because it is utterly impossible to be anything other than yourself after your 2rd or 3rd interview. i think that the natural history of the process will actually make it easier to get through the rest....good luck.

before you know it we're gonna be ranking our lists!!!!!
 
I've gotten a several invites but am still awaiting others. When should I give up hope?
 
Excellent advice!

Remember, a lot of programs wait until mid-November to send out invites, and some are just slower than others.

Don't give up hope, I'm in the same boat as you are!

UMDNJ-Newark tomorrow, driving up tonight.
 
sequela said:
having several interviews will force me to be myself (which may be difficult at first because you want to always say the right thing, be the person they want, etc.)
Click to expand...

I see that many applicants feel this way. I love interviewing, its always come natural to me. I just speak and act naturally, I am who I am. And I've always gotten excellent feedback. I'm not saying I'm all that, I just think you do yourself and the program a great favor by being yourself. You wouldnt want to act a certain way and then get into that program, only to really not fit in there and be miserable for the next 4 years. Get in where you fit in. I have interviews at large programs with big names and at small private programs. In the end I'm gonna rank the programs that I will be most comfortable at the highest. If I'm happy with my program, then I will perform my best, and thus get the most out of my training.

Ok, sorry for the rant. I hope everyone's interviews are going well!! 🙂

E-Mo
 
What is proper post-interview etiquette regarding thank you notes? Is it OK to send emails to the interviewers, or should they be mailed notes?

Thanks
 
Circumflex said:
What is proper post-interview etiquette regarding thank you notes? Is it OK to send emails to the interviewers, or should they be mailed notes?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I've sent emails and letters. (I've received emails back from them saying they enjoyed meeting me, so I guess emails DO work, too.) Depended on how much time I wanted to spend. Now, I will send letters only to the PD. My reasoning: most interviewers have a form to fill out after you interview. They fill them out within a day or two and they're done with you, so to speak. BUT, the PD is the one, with the rest of the committee, who ultimately decides who they'll rank.

Just a theory, but I really don't want to send 6-7 letters/interview times 13 interviews. It's just courtesy, not a necessity.
 
USA Pathology by email and eras. GO GO USA!! 🙂

(In case anyone isnt in the know - thats Univ. of South Alabama)

E-Mo
 
I cannot be fake but found that I take to interviews well. I am really nervous at first and then enjoy it. i have read over potential questions but have not memorized answers or anything. I leave for my first interview tomorrow! :scared:
still waiting to hear from unc, vcu, wake, uf-g, mcg.
 
sapience8x said:
I cannot be fake but found that I take to interviews well. I am really nervous at first and then enjoy it. i have read over potential questions but have not memorized answers or anything. I leave for my first interview tomorrow! :scared:
still waiting to hear from unc, vcu, wake, uf-g, mcg.
Click to expand...

Good luck!

I'm on my 5th tomorrow...almost halfway done!!! 🙂
 
Villin said:
You should really change your name from UCSFbound to Mr. Kalifornication! 😉

Congrats. 🙂
Click to expand...

:laugh: Thanks. My only two priorities are to get solid training and live near the ocean. I probably only need to do 5 or 6 interviews to match, but I cant help the feelings of insecurity and the potential to be lied to by program directors, so I will probably end up doing 8 or 9. Congratulations on the interviews that you have racked up there; maybe I'll see you out on the trail. I'll be the one with the big shiny suit coat that says "Las Vegas" on the back of it. :laugh:
 
ermonty said:
I see that many applicants feel this way. I love interviewing, its always come natural to me. I just speak and act naturally, I am who I am. And I've always gotten excellent feedback. I'm not saying I'm all that, I just think you do yourself and the program a great favor by being yourself. You wouldnt want to act a certain way and then get into that program, only to really not fit in there and be miserable for the next 4 years. Get in where you fit in. I have interviews at large programs with big names and at small private programs. In the end I'm gonna rank the programs that I will be most comfortable at the highest. If I'm happy with my program, then I will perform my best, and thus get the most out of my training.

Ok, sorry for the rant. I hope everyone's interviews are going well!! 🙂

E-Mo
Click to expand...

perhaps i was not clear. and in reading my statement it appears that i was not. i don't think one should misrepresent themselves at all. i am speaking more to the nuances of what is essentially a social interaction. people have different temperments, senses of humor (or worse, a lack of one), different composures (some interviewers are more relaxed and informal others are quite proper and really very formal in the way in which they communicate) and the list goes on and on. it is especially the case in pathology where there is a distinct older cohort of physicians as well as very young junior faculty. also, geographic location and prior training institutions leave their mark on a person's professional demeanor.

30 min interviews with potentially 7 very different people is tiring because you must within seconds acertain these aspects of your interviewer's personality so that you can accomadate them. not for the sake of "getting in", but to relieve any akwardness that may ensue. i personally like to connect in a meaningful way to each person i interact with. regardless of whether our personalities "naturally" mesh. having said that, i do not consider it misrepresentation to be cognizent of the differences in personality traits and behave in a way that allows for the most effective interaction.

if anything...i think it is a more evolved human interaction when you are able to engage someone at their level, or in a fashion in which they are most responsive.

the above perspective is in no way meant to be confused with "not being yourself" or whatever. in fact, it would require absolute self-awareness and a very real level of self-confidence (in other words, being really comfortable in own's own skin) to meet a perfect stranger on their terms.

so, i think it goes without saying, social interactions of this sort are exhausting, esp when limited to 30 min times 7 a day for about 10-15 times in 1-2 months.


in any case, i realize that my original comment was misleading and i'm sorry if it lead you to believe that i was encouraging not being oneself. and i think that other applicants essentially feel this way although they may not articulate it as such...the short-hand version is that you want your interviewer to like you even if they don't really get you. it's not an applicant thing, it's a basic human motivation that drives essentially all our social interactions.

and yes, ultimately, you find an institution where the majority of personality types and styles are compatible with your own. and yes, you rank that highest and find yourself performing your best and getting the most out of your training.

good luck and sorry about my rant.
 
ermonty said:
I see that many applicants feel this way. I love interviewing, its always come natural to me. I just speak and act naturally, I am who I am. And I've always gotten excellent feedback. I'm not saying I'm all that, I just think you do yourself and the program a great favor by being yourself. You wouldnt want to act a certain way and then get into that program, only to really not fit in there and be miserable for the next 4 years. Get in where you fit in. I have interviews at large programs with big names and at small private programs. In the end I'm gonna rank the programs that I will be most comfortable at the highest. If I'm happy with my program, then I will perform my best, and thus get the most out of my training.

Ok, sorry for the rant. I hope everyone's interviews are going well!! 🙂

E-Mo
Click to expand...

perhaps i was not clear. and in reading my statement it appears that i was not. i don't think one should misrepresent themselves at all. i am speaking more to the nuances of what is essentially a social interaction. people have different temperments, senses of humor (or worse, a lack of one), different composures (some interviewers are more relaxed and informal others are quite proper and really very formal in the way in which they communicate) and the list goes on and on. it is especially the case in pathology where there is a distinct older cohort of physicians as well as very young jounior faculty. also, geographic location and prior trainning institutions leave their mark on a person's professional demeanor.

30 min interviews with potentially 7 very different people is tiring because you must within seconds acertain these aspects of your interviewers personality so that you can accomadate them. not for the sake of "getting in", but to relieve any awkwardness that may ensue. i personally like to connect in a meaningful way to each person i interact with. regardless of whether our personalities "naturally" mesh. having said that, i do not consider it misrepresentation to be cognizent of the differences in personality traits and behave in a way that allows for the most effective interaction.

if anything...i think it is a more evolved human interaction when you are able to engage someone at their level, or in a fashion in which they are most responsive.

the above perspective is in no way meant to be confused with "not being yourself" or whatever. in fact, it would require absolute self-awareness and a very real level of self-confidence (in other words, being really comfortable in own's own skin) to meet a perfect stranger on their terms.

so, i think it goes without saying, social interactions of this sort are exhausting, esp when limited to 30 min times 7 a day for about 10-15 times in 1-2 months.


in any case, i realize that my original comment was misleading and i'm sorry if it lead you to believe that i was encouraging not being oneself.

and yes, ultimately, you find an institution where the majority of personality types and styles are compatible with your own. and yes, you rank that highest and find yourself performing your best and getting the most out of your training.

good luck and sorry about my rant.
 
Idiopathic said:
Im at Vandy guys. PM me for info or if you are coming to interview. Maybe Ill see you at dinner! Good luck.
Click to expand...

Aren't you in anesthesia? At least I thought you were. Maybe I'm going insane.
 
In an effort to organize this thread, I've listed all the interviews people have posted thus far, roughly in order. For programs with a location that may not be known to all, I posted that as well. Maybe this will help us narrow down which programs have still not sent out invites. Please correct any mistakes.

September
Yale
Iowa
Tufts-Baystate
Beth Israel Deaconess
North Carolina
Michigan
Stanford
Bringham & Women's
Cleveland Clinic
UCSF
Johns Hopkins
George Washington
Pittsburgh
Medical U of Ohio (Toledo, OH)
Ohio State
UT-Houston
St. John's (Detroit, MI)
St. Joseph's (Phoenix, AZ)
Mt. Sinai
Utah
Cedars-Sinai
Emory
Alabama-Birmingham
Wisconsin
Virgina Commonwealth

October
Mass General
Wake Forest
Washington U
National Institutes of Health
Case Western
Medical U of South Carolina
UT-Southwestern
Vanderbilt
U Tennessee-Knoxville
U Florida
U New Mexico
Northwestern
East Tennessee State
West Virginia
Methodist (Houston, TX)
Albert Einstein
Chicago
Vermont
Drexel
Georgetown
Ball Memorial (Muncie, IN)
Orlando Regional
U Florida-Jacksonville
East Carolina
Virginia
UT-San Antonio
Cornell
Nebraska
Boston U
Illinois
U Penn
UCSD
Loyola
UMDNJ-Newark
Duke
Thomas Jefferson
Kansas
Beaumont (Royal Oak, MI)
Texas A&M-Scott & White
USC
Allegheny General (Pittsburgh, PA)
Brown
Medical College of Wisconsin
Mayo
U Washington
UC Irvine
Baptist Health (Birmingham, AL)
Medical College of Georgia
Indiana
Kentucky
Summa Health (Akron, OH)
UC Davis
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson
Minnesota
Oregon
U Tennessee-Memphis
New York U
St. Louis
Hawaii
Penrose (Colorado Springs, CO)
Arkansas
Louisville
Arizona
Case Western-Metrohealth
UCLA

November
Baylor-Dallas
Baylor-Houston
U South Alabama
SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY)
 
I just canceled 2 interviews. :scared: So I have canceled 3 and have 8. i hope that is enough. these were in places that we just didn't want to move. i had accepted them when i didn't have any others. I have interviews at 4 competitive programs and 4 moderate but very nice places so I hope that will get me matched somewhere.:scared:
 
Finally heard from Oregon today (email), so I'm officially finished waiting around checking my email. Good luck to everyone on the interview trail.
 
So did anyone ever hear from columbia. I start next week. nervous but i'll get over it.😀
 
TEMPLE by phone

😀 !!!
 
Hey everybody...
Did anyone schedule an interview with Goergetown?
I recived an IV last week from the PD via email and she told me to contact the PC to schedule an interview...I sent to her 2 emails and I left a voice mail but no response till now!Seem starnge to me? what to do plz?Should I call the PD or just wait?
 
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