Introductory Pharmacy Practice Experience

[doublestufforeo]

We are needing to get started on our IPPE (Introductory Pharmacy Practice Experience) and we want to get ahead of the game and get started right away. We live in a SMALL college town with a great college of Pharmacy (= a lot of students pre-pharm, p1-p3 are wanting the same thing) and few resources. Can someone who has done this already give me some insight as to where to look, how to look (i.e. drop in to each pharmacy, or just call on the phone) for an IPPE with that pharmacy? And once we can land someone that agrees to "sponsor" us, how can we make the most of the experience? as opposed to being like: "mmmm...okay so I'm here, now what do you want me to do". How can we tell the preceptor site will be a good match for us? like: are they going to really help you learn as opposed to "just watch and learn your on your own". Also, I have another question: Can we get paid with this preceptor site on some days, and volunteer on other days? (because I know for the hours to count, they have to be "free", "volunteer" hours right?). Thanks!!

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[Allure]

Is this a new school because if it's not, then the school can just use APPE sites and make them IPPEs also. I think most of the work will be almost like APPE, except it won't be as long. Some schools make their students do it over the summers, some make them do it once a week for 4 hours. Personally, I think it's better to do it all over the break.

If it's a new school, then you'd need to contact the sites. For community pharmacy, it won't be hard since there are so many of them. You only need to do 1 contract for CVS, and you can send students to more than one CVS store given that there is a preceptor there and willing to take students. For hospitals, there are more hoops that you have to jump through. Normally they have an agreement that both the school and the site have to sign.

From what I understand, you cannot do a rotation at a site that you are currently working or have worked. However, you can work at CVS store 1 (paid), and do a rotation at CVS store 2 (free).

Are you a student? Doesn't your school have a coordinator that takes care of all this?

 

[doublestufforeo]

Is this a new school because if it's not, then the school can just use APPE sites and make them IPPEs also. I think most of the work will be almost like APPE, except it won't be as long. Some schools make their students do it over the summers, some make them do it once a week for 4 hours. Personally, I think it's better to do it all over the break.

If it's a new school, then you'd need to contact the sites. For community pharmacy, it won't be hard since there are so many of them. You only need to do 1 contract for CVS, and you can send students to more than one CVS store given that there is a preceptor there and willing to take students. For hospitals, there are more hoops that you have to jump through. Normally they have an agreement that both the school and the site have to sign.

From what I understand, you cannot do a rotation at a site that you are currently working or have worked. However, you can work at CVS store 1 (paid), and do a rotation at CVS store 2 (free).

Are you a student? Doesn't your school have a coordinator that takes care of all this?

My husband is a P1 this Fall, and we pretty much (the students) have to contact their own preceptor site and take it from there.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Is this a new school because if it's not, then the school can just use APPE sites and make them IPPEs also. I think most of the work will be almost like APPE, except it won't be as long. Some schools make their students do it over the summers, some make them do it once a week for 4 hours. Personally, I think it's better to do it all over the break.

If it's a new school, then you'd need to contact the sites. For community pharmacy, it won't be hard since there are so many of them. You only need to do 1 contract for CVS, and you can send students to more than one CVS store given that there is a preceptor there and willing to take students. For hospitals, there are more hoops that you have to jump through. Normally they have an agreement that both the school and the site have to sign.

From what I understand, you cannot do a rotation at a site that you are currently working or have worked. However, you can work at CVS store 1 (paid), and do a rotation at CVS store 2 (free).

Are you a student? Doesn't your school have a coordinator that takes care of all this?

Probably a new school. Don't have an organized IPPE program? That's pretty messed up... imagine 100+ students all randomly making phone calls to whomever, no way to varify or standardize...

 

[Prepharm1214]

Our School, despite being new, arranged all of the IPPEs for us. That seems kinda frustrating you have to initiate them..

 

[Farmercyst]

I can't imagine ACPE liking that. Where's the standardization? Who gets to verify the preceptor are willing to do any more than sign off on hours?
Not that all my IPPEs were that educational, but seems lame to have to crapshoot and hope you get a decent preceptor, or one at all for that matter.

 

[PharmDstudent]

From what I understand, you cannot do a rotation at a site that you are currently working or have worked. However, you can work at CVS store 1 (paid), and do a rotation at CVS store 2 (free).

At my school, if you work for CVS, then you can not rotate at any CVS or you will fail the rotation (even if they messed up your schedule, because you're supposed to tell the IPPE/APPE people if that happens so that they can switch your rotation).

 

[confettiflyer]

Our School, despite being new, arranged all of the IPPEs for us. That seems kinda frustrating you have to initiate them..

Same here...the OP's situation sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Praziquantel86]

My school (definitely not a new one) has pretty much the same situation as the OP, for the time being. It's not as bad as I initially thought it would be, I've managed to go to some pretty interesting places over the course of two years.

 

[Transformer]

My husband is a P1 this Fall, and we pretty much (the students) have to contact their own preceptor site and take it from there.

My school told us IPPEs will be arranged for us. No need to search on our own.

 

[DrWrong]

Our School, despite being new, arranged all of the IPPEs for us. That seems kinda frustrating you have to initiate them..

Thankfully our school did as well. It would have been so frustrating trying to land an IPPE at a pharmacy in Tallahassee!!! So many college students are already Techs.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

WVU's rotations czar doesn't even like you contacting potential preceptors about anything dealing with scheduling sites, period. She'll bring you into the office and give you a good scolding if you actually do. They have very, very tight control over who goes where and when. She'd probably die if the idea of students calling around for their own sites crept into her mind.

 

[Sparda29]

My school told us IPPEs will be arranged for us. No need to search on our own.

We have a list of IPPEs to choose from and then the system runs a lottery.

 

[Transformer]

We have a list of IPPEs to choose from and then the system runs a lottery.

So, we give the school our top 3 to 5 choices for IPPE sites and a lottery system determines everything?

Later on, I wonder if seniority will play into this and for any future rotations.

 

[Allure]

So, we give the school our top 3 to 5 choices for IPPE sites and a lottery system determines everything?

Later on, I wonder if seniority will play into this and for any future rotations.

I don't know about IPPEs, but for APPEs...you give the school your top 3 choices for each rotation. So let's say your school requires 8 rotations, then you have to give them a total of 24 sites. Then the system will spin and spit out the results. What does seniority have anything to do with this? Everybody is going to start their rotations together at the same time. Unless you meant IPPEs vs. APPEs. Then I don't know about that, but I don't think it should matter.

 

[Sparda29]

So, we give the school our top 3 to 5 choices for IPPE sites and a lottery system determines everything?

Later on, I wonder if seniority will play into this and for any future rotations.

There is an online system called EValue. Basically, you are given 20 slots for each IPPE. This year, we have 1 Public Health IPPE, I think there are 9 possible sites, and 3 different months when we can have it. So, basically I don't want anything in July, so I chose June/August as my preferred months, and set up my top 20 choices.

Then for the community pharmacy IPPE I think there are around 15 sites, so I chose the ones that I wanna work at and chose June/August again as my month preferences.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the sites I want because I'm trying to avoid Manhattan like the plague, while the majority of my classmates want to stay in Manhattan.

 

[Transformer]

There is an online system called EValue. Basically, you are given 20 slots for each IPPE. This year, we have 1 Public Health IPPE, I think there are 9 possible sites, and 3 different months when we can have it. So, basically I don't want anything in July, so I chose June/August as my preferred months, and set up my top 20 choices.

Then for the community pharmacy IPPE I think there are around 15 sites, so I chose the ones that I wanna work at and chose June/August again as my month preferences.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the sites I want because I'm trying to avoid Manhattan like the plague, while the majority of my classmates want to stay in Manhattan.

When you wrote "we have 1 Public Health IPPE," are you saying we are required to do 1 public health IPPE?? Or is public health just one type of IPPE we can select from?

Why are you trying to avoid Manhattan? Is it cuz you live far away and want to avoid the long commute? (vice versa for students living near Manhattan).

 

[Sparda29]

When you wrote "we have 1 Public Health IPPE," are you saying we are required to do 1 public health IPPE?? Or is public health just one type of IPPE we can select from?



Why are you trying to avoid Manhattan? Is it cuz you live far away and want to avoid the long commute? (vice versa for students living near Manhattan).

Well we have 1 month of an IPPE at a community pharmacy, and 1 month of an IPPE in a public health setting (senator's office, children's health services, ralph lauren center, etc)

Honestly, I am slowly getting sick of the urban setting. Manhattan isn't a car friendly place.
Too many ******* pedestrians who cross against the light and walk with their heads pointed at the ground, or walking and texting at the same time, or simply not paying attention.
Too many bicyclists who attempt to outmanuver the cars.
Too many trucks who double park, slowing down traffic.
Taxis...do I need to explain...
Oh yeah, **** the 30 mph speed limit. And **** paying for parking.

 

[pharmacygopher]

That really sucks that you have to schedule/find your own IPPE. I can't imagine a school being that under prepared.

We just starting doing community and hospital IPPE's and have a few preceptors in areas all over MN. We sign up for our top 5 rotation sites and top choices for dates throughout summer. Then we are randomly assigned a time and place.

 

[chibipinkbunny]

I don't mean to talk badly about UCSF, but our system of IPPE's is kind of weird. In the beginning, they required us to do 100 hours in our first year thinking that we would do 100x3 = 300 hours before rotations. They organized an elaborate program with a bunch of preceptors and we were assigned randomly to a site. Now that we're in our second year they've told us that they're trying to do away with the 300 hours requirement. They're going to have us do it by competencies instead. So they tried to present that to the ACPE, but it was rejected, but they're still going forward with it. They feel that the ACPE will eventually accept it. That's the part that worries me. Now we aren't assigned to sites, and I've only gotten about 35 hours so far in my second year, in addition to 100 hours in my first year. They tell us not to worry about hours, but to be honest, I'm kind of worried. Is anyone else's school like this?

 

[BMBiology]

They're going to have us do it by competencies instead. So they tried to present that to the ACPE, but it was rejected, but they're still going forward with it.

Yup, I remember a faculty at USC mentioning it as well. They are planning to get rid of the required intern hour requirement and in order to get intern hours, you need to pass the competency examination.

 

[BMBiology]

I actually think it is a good idea. Just because you interned that does not mean you learn anything. This way you would need to prove it before you can even take the board examination.

 

[doublestufforeo]

Our school has been around for 90 years!!! So, it's defenitely not new. So, yeah, we are supposed to call around. Which now that I know people at other places are being assigned, makes me feel dumb that our school is doing this. anyway, my husband has already been calling around and some have said, "nope, were full". I believe many or all the pharmacy sites around here, are "approved" preceptor sites. I want to make sure he actually learns something and not treated like a volunteer that just watches and learns the dumb stuff like the trash goes here, etc. What is an example of an exellent preceptor site. What is the Sponsor supposed to be doing? That we we can gage if that site is good or not and keep looking elsewhere.

Thanks!

 

[confettiflyer]

I don't mean to talk badly about UCSF, but our system of IPPE's is kind of weird. In the beginning, they required us to do 100 hours in our first year thinking that we would do 100x3 = 300 hours before rotations. They organized an elaborate program with a bunch of preceptors and we were assigned randomly to a site. Now that we're in our second year they've told us that they're trying to do away with the 300 hours requirement. They're going to have us do it by competencies instead. So they tried to present that to the ACPE, but it was rejected, but they're still going forward with it. They feel that the ACPE will eventually accept it. That's the part that worries me. Now we aren't assigned to sites, and I've only gotten about 35 hours so far in my second year, in addition to 100 hours in my first year. They tell us not to worry about hours, but to be honest, I'm kind of worried. Is anyone else's school like this?

I really don't think it's going to be an issue with you graduating and being able to sit for NAPLEX. So long as you have enough hours according to the state you're going to apply for a license in. I believe IPPE hours don't even count toward that hour requirement in CA (only APPE + outside intern hours).

UCSF would probably just get a good ribbing from the ACPE and then eventually accept the competency based system later.

 

[BMBiology]

I believe IPPE hours don't even count toward that hour requirement in CA (only APPE + outside intern hours).

UCSF would probably just get a good ribbing from the ACPE and then eventually accept the competency based system later.

The competency based system is a way for the California schools to change the way you are allowed to sit for the CJPE. Graduating from an accredited school and getting your hours will no longer be enough. You will need to pass the competency exam.

 

[confettiflyer]

The competency based system is a way for the California schools to change the way you are allowed to sit for the CJPE. Graduating from an accredited school and getting your hours will no longer be enough. You will need to pass the competency exam.

Makes sense, wonder how this will pan out and when. So it'll be CPJE + NAPLEX + competency exam + hours = license. I'm pretty sure hours will be a component somehow, just reduced from the current 1500.

 

[BMBiology]

Makes sense, wonder how this will pan out and when. So it'll be CPJE + NAPLEX + competency exam + hours = license. I'm pretty sure hours will be a component somehow, just reduced from the current 1500.

I think they may get rid of the require hours entirely. Whether you are allowed to take the NAPLEX/CPJE is up to the CA BOP's and its standards. However, if you want to practice out of California, you will need to show you have completed a certain number of intern hours.

 

[confettiflyer]

I think they may get rid of the require hours entirely. Whether you are allowed to take the NAPLEX/CPJE is up to the CA BOP's and its standards. However, if you want to practice out of California, you will need to show you have completed a certain number of intern hours.

I wonder if this would have the potential to torpedo/curtail the sacred cow that is the 36 weeks of rotations aka APPE's. Then you run into problems where some random school will say that they can produce competent pharmacists at 18 weeks of rotations now that there'd be no hourly requirement...the official line can then be "if you fail the competency exam, that's your own fault." It has the potential to turn into a mess.

I wonder if I'm thinking the same thing you are or completely missing the mark here.

 

[BMBiology]

I don't think the 4th year rotation will change. It is required to graduate. The competency test is for California pharmacy schools to set high standards so your average joe blow would have a tough time passing.

 

[confettiflyer]

I don't think the 4th year rotation will change. It is required to graduate. The competency test is for California pharmacy schools to set high standards so your average joe blow would have a tough time passing.

Yeah, but I think I brought this up in other threads...a hard licensure/competency test won't necessarily deter someone from attempting to practice in the state. It could deter existing pharmacists in other states from coming in who are already in their comfort zone (add 2 exams, the CPJE and this competency exam, to a move, possible lower standard of living due to costs, and time lost preparing for the exam/move).

If you have a fresh new PharmD from CNCP (i like picking on this school) that has no income, no family, no career...what have they got to lose in prepping/failing/prepping again for the exam? Nada.

Pretend I'm ******ed for a second (I know, what a stretch). I'm going to move to CA no matter what, so if it takes me an extra 3-6 months to fail a few tests, get coached, then pass, so be it. The problem with any test is, well...it's not exactly reality. Every test is coachable, be it the PCAT, the state bar exam, or the USMLE.

So in some peculiar way, harder standards could actually lower the quality of pharmacists in the state. Yeah, a bit of a stretch....but do you see my issue here? Increasing the requirements on the back end won't necessarily make your pharmacist population any better, it's toughening standards on the front end that would be the most beneficial.

 

[BMBiology]

Yeah, but I think I brought this up in other threads...a hard licensure/competency test won't necessarily deter someone from attempting to practice in the state. It could deter existing pharmacists in other states

I think it does both. For example, the CA board exam used to be very difficult. I think about 50% of non CA graduates do not pass. It was also given only once every 6 months. While it did not prevent someone from trying to pass it but it slowed down the supply, and some even gave up and left California. It prevented a lot of people from practicing in California.

 

[Farmercyst]

Yup, I remember a faculty at USC mentioning it as well. They are planning to get rid of the required intern hour requirement and in order to get intern hours, you need to pass the competency examination.

As of 2 weeks ago, they mentioned that we would be required to do the 300 hours. That was as of the ACPE visit in January/February. Not sure how set in stone that is.

 

[BlueCrayon]

At UB, they've only been doing the IPPEs for a couple years...they set up many of the major hospital ones in the area, but for the most part you set up your own. We do, however, have a list of approved preceptors so it is standardized. It is kind of a pain to set up, but that way you have the advantage of going anywhere you want.