IPad vs. IPod touch on the wards

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Waysensei

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I'm thinking of getting either an IPad or an Ipod touch for my 3rd year rotations. The upside to the IPad would be larger screen size to read through eBooks like Harrison's and Current Medical Diagnosis. The downside is the size and being that "THAT GUY" on the floor.

I'm having some trouble deciding. I need the wisdom of SDN to help me make a decision here.
 
I'm thinking of getting either an IPad or an Ipod touch for my 3rd year rotations. The upside to the IPad would be larger screen size to read through eBooks like Harrison's and Current Medical Diagnosis. The downside is the size and being that "THAT GUY" on the floor.

I'm having some trouble deciding. I need the wisdom of SDN to help me make a decision here.

I think "THAT GUY" issues aside (and those issues certainly exist), the size makes it highly impractical to carry around on the floor. It's not going to fit in a white coat pocket and you are going to need to have other stuff in your hands a lot of the time. I would be concerned about setting it down and leaving it, or worse having it get stolen.

Now that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good "e-reader" to keep in your backpack for study time.
 
Rule number one. Don't be that guy.
 
Unless you do what stephen colbert did to his coat for the grammy's then its not gonna work. Also there are many times where you have to set aside your white coat. Newsflash, many people are untrustworthy thieves. I got my palm stolen out of my coat at the VA one night I was on call. Always keep that stuff in a pocket on you.
 
An ipad is too big to whip out to look something up really fast without being totally conspicuous. Also, do you really want to be an unpaid beta tester for something that will almost definitely have a next-gen upgrade within the next year? Stick with the Touch - it's got everything you need.
 

'nuff said.

Besides, I have yet to be in a hospital where you can't just use an actual computer to look stuff up while rounding.
 
I think "THAT GUY" issues aside (and those issues certainly exist), the size makes it highly impractical to carry around on the floor. It's not going to fit in a white coat pocket and you are going to need to have other stuff in your hands a lot of the time. I would be concerned about setting it down and leaving it, or worse having it get stolen.

Now that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good "e-reader" to keep in your backpack for study time.

Actually, it fits perfectly in my white coat pocket...although I wouldn't take it to my rotation. Great to read books on. Even better when iBooks gets PDF support.
 
the classic mad tv ipad sketch:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskbO1k9VO0[/YOUTUBE]
 
iPhone for sure. On Surgery, ER etc, you will be running around with a chart in your hand, not an ipad.
 
Once again the SDN community helps me solve a dilemma. The touch, it is.
 
I'm thinking of getting either an IPad or an Ipod touch for my 3rd year rotations.

The only sensible choice is a Windows Mobile phone - the HTC Touch Pro 2 or similar. Why?

Still the widest *real* medical software support for any platform. Check any of the newer wireless stethoscopes or echoscopes... all interface to a WM host. Hooking into those is golden. Also, WM supports all the hospital crypto, so you can usually hook directly into the EMR systems through Cisco/VPN/Java, etc. Apple's support for crypto is weak and not really EMR friendly.

Also, as well as the usual Epocrates, etc, you can install the entire UpToDate onto WM... takes around 2GB on a memory card. Being able to call up any U2D article within seconds *wherever* you are is sweet. Sure some hospitals pay the extra bucks for network access for U2D, but when you are in the bowels of a hospital surrounded by equipment, signals are weak and you really don't want to be relying pulling in weak signals that eat up your battery faster.

Also, real switch-out keyboard *plus* tactile touchscreen with haptic feedback. Plus TV-Out/Video so you can quickly plug into any convenient projector or screen to quick presentations.

Within a few years an Android handheld will probably be the better choice... but for now you can dual-boot a Touch Pro 2 to either Windows Mobile or Android.
 
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The only sensible choice is a Windows Mobile phone - the HTC Touch Pro 2 or similar. Why?

Still the widest *real* medical software support for any platform. Check any of the newer wireless stethoscopes or echoscopes... all interface to a WM host. Hooking into those is golden. Also, WM supports all the hospital crypto, so you can usually hook directly into the EMR systems through Cisco/VPN/Java, etc. Apple's support for crypto is weak and not really EMR friendly.

Also, as well as the usual Epocrates, etc, you can install the entire UpToDate onto WM... takes around 2GB on a memory card. Being able to call up any U2D article within seconds *wherever* you are is sweet. Sure some hospitals pay the extra bucks for network access for U2D, but when you are in the bowels of a hospital surrounded by equipment, signals are weak and you really don't want to be relying pulling in weak signals that eat up your battery faster.

Also, real switch-out keyboard *plus* tactile touchscreen with haptic feedback. Plus TV-Out/Video so you can quickly plug into any convenient projector or screen to quick presentations.

Within a few years an Android handheld will probably be the better choice... but for now you can dual-boot a Touch Pro 2 to either Windows Mobile or Android.
But does the iphone have a lot more medical apps? Touch seems like a nice option. How many students are using Android?
 
The only sensible choice is a Windows Mobile phone - the HTC Touch Pro 2 or similar. Why?

Still the widest *real* medical software support for any platform. Check any of the newer wireless stethoscopes or echoscopes... all interface to a WM host. Hooking into those is golden. Also, WM supports all the hospital crypto, so you can usually hook directly into the EMR systems through Cisco/VPN/Java, etc. Apple's support for crypto is weak and not really EMR friendly.

Also, as well as the usual Epocrates, etc, you can install the entire UpToDate onto WM... takes around 2GB on a memory card. Being able to call up any U2D article within seconds *wherever* you are is sweet. Sure some hospitals pay the extra bucks for network access for U2D, but when you are in the bowels of a hospital surrounded by equipment, signals are weak and you really don't want to be relying pulling in weak signals that eat up your battery faster.

Also, real switch-out keyboard *plus* tactile touchscreen with haptic feedback. Plus TV-Out/Video so you can quickly plug into any convenient projector or screen to quick presentations.

Within a few years an Android handheld will probably be the better choice... but for now you can dual-boot a Touch Pro 2 to either Windows Mobile or Android.

I didn't know you could download U2D for your phone. I've got a blackberry Storm, which should run windows software. How much does it cost? Do you have a link for it?

EDIT: Sorry, I realized that this question is stupid. Blackberry runs it's own OS and uptodate requires Windows mobile 5 or 6.
 
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I didn't know you could download U2D for your phone. I've got a blackberry Storm, which should run windows software. How much does it cost? Do you have a link for it?

UpToDate Mobile Version

According to this, U2D Mobile installs onto:
Device running Windows Mobile 5 or Windows Mobile 6.
Palm OS: Palm Centro, Palm TX, Treo 650, Treo 680, Treo 700p, Treo 755p, or LifeDrive.

It's actually a Java program that displays using a web browser, so the same program installs and runs on Windows XP/Vista/7. With a bit of coaxing, you can also convince Apple's OSX to run it as well.
 
Uptodate works fine on my iPhone anywhere in any hospital I go to. I haven't yet met a hospital without wireless.

Honestly, things move so quickly that you don't have that much time to sit around and read an uptodate article. I use epocrates on rounds, but that's about it.
 
The only sensible choice is a Windows Mobile phone - the HTC Touch Pro 2 or similar. Why?

Still the widest *real* medical software support for any platform. Check any of the newer wireless stethoscopes or echoscopes... all interface to a WM host. Hooking into those is golden. Also, WM supports all the hospital crypto, so you can usually hook directly into the EMR systems through Cisco/VPN/Java, etc. Apple's support for crypto is weak and not really EMR friendly.

Also, as well as the usual Epocrates, etc, you can install the entire UpToDate onto WM... takes around 2GB on a memory card. Being able to call up any U2D article within seconds *wherever* you are is sweet. Sure some hospitals pay the extra bucks for network access for U2D, but when you are in the bowels of a hospital surrounded by equipment, signals are weak and you really don't want to be relying pulling in weak signals that eat up your battery faster.

Also, real switch-out keyboard *plus* tactile touchscreen with haptic feedback. Plus TV-Out/Video so you can quickly plug into any convenient projector or screen to quick presentations.

Within a few years an Android handheld will probably be the better choice... but for now you can dual-boot a Touch Pro 2 to either Windows Mobile or Android.

I kinda disagree. All you need is an iPod Touch. Are you really going into all that crap on your mobile device that much as to make 2 GB of data wastage worth it? Do you really use uptodate or all the above functionality you described on a daily basis?

If I need to calculate or look up something really quick, I do so on my iPod using calculator, medcalc, or epocrates. It's really all you need. The times I get asked to look up stuff is when we are at a lull and I can make it to a computer to check it out. There hasn't ever been a time when I was that far from a computer as to make it impossible to do so. I definitely don't use UpToDate on a daily basis at work either.

I also get the advantage of using the Apple interface which is far superior, IMO, to any other mobile device out there.
 
Uptodate works fine on my iPhone anywhere in any hospital I go to ... Honestly, things move so quickly that you don't have that much time to sit around and read an uptodate article.

Yeah, I usually use Epocrates as well. However, U2D Mobile is an app, and so is basically instant search and display. When you use U2D over a wireless link to a web site, as well as eating your battery, you are dealing with WiFi latency and TCP transmission delays (it's a 3-way handshake to get a single data object from any website, and a webpage is made up of many objects). Plus, you may have anywhere from 5-15 hops between your handheld and the U2D website. All this adds up to a sluggish response. If you have a device with a real, tactile keyboard (for surreptitious data entry by feel) and speech-to-text search, then you'd be surprised how quickly you can call up data. If you are doing Surgery rounds it's probably not going to help you, but if you are rounding on a tricky Peds or Medicine case then, when everyone else has chimed in, you are usually ready via U2D to describe some of the edge cases it could be, or to specify the sensitivity/specificity or PPV/NPV of a particular test/scan. Basically, it's a combination of a fast app, good furtive input that doesn't depend exclusively on peering at a screen, fast reading, and knowing how to navigate U2D Mobile's headings, then you are set.

Are you really going into all that crap on your mobile device that much as to make 2 GB of data wastage worth it? ... I also get the advantage of using the Apple interface which is far superior, IMO, to any other mobile device out there.

Well, a 16GB memory card was just $12 yesterday on Fatwallet, and the 32 GB cards are dropping like a stone. So 2 GB really isn't that big a deal.

And as for interface, that's a matter of opinion. I wonder if you've tried Android or WM with SenseUI, which is all full of the same kind of finger swooshing, pinching, etc. And often with them you have glass screens with haptic feedback so you get a literal feel for what you are doing. Or the Palm Pre, with the WebOS, actually designed by all the people who created the iPod and iPhone at Apple... basically, it's iPhone Interface Version 2 ("improved"). In any case, for medical apps the individual interface is key. What is "superior" on one platform may suck on another. Epocrates on Apple, is kind of borked compared to some of the other platforms. And the (current) lack of multitasking on iPhone means you can't easily switch between medical apps, say to check a DICOM and compare it to a Google/emedicine/U2D image. That's just a single example where the modal iPhone interface restricts your workflow.
 
Uptodate works fine on my iPhone anywhere in any hospital I go to. I haven't yet met a hospital without wireless.

Honestly, things move so quickly that you don't have that much time to sit around and read an uptodate article. I use epocrates on rounds, but that's about it.

This is what I do as well. I just have it bookmarked. The website automatically converts the content to fit nicely on the iPhone/iPodTouch
 
Yeah, I usually use Epocrates as well. However, U2D Mobile is an app, and so is basically instant search and display. When you use U2D over a wireless link to a web site, as well as eating your battery, you are dealing with WiFi latency and TCP transmission delays (it's a 3-way handshake to get a single data object from any website, and a webpage is made up of many objects). Plus, you may have anywhere from 5-15 hops between your handheld and the U2D website. All this adds up to a sluggish response. If you have a device with a real, tactile keyboard (for surreptitious data entry by feel) and speech-to-text search, then you'd be surprised how quickly you can call up data. If you are doing Surgery rounds it's probably not going to help you, but if you are rounding on a tricky Peds or Medicine case then, when everyone else has chimed in, you are usually ready via U2D to describe some of the edge cases it could be, or to specify the sensitivity/specificity or PPV/NPV of a particular test/scan. Basically, it's a combination of a fast app, good furtive input that doesn't depend exclusively on peering at a screen, fast reading, and knowing how to navigate U2D Mobile's headings, then you are set.



Well, a 16GB memory card was just $12 yesterday on Fatwallet, and the 32 GB cards are dropping like a stone. So 2 GB really isn't that big a deal.

And as for interface, that's a matter of opinion. I wonder if you've tried Android or WM with SenseUI, which is all full of the same kind of finger swooshing, pinching, etc. And often with them you have glass screens with haptic feedback so you get a literal feel for what you are doing. Or the Palm Pre, with the WebOS, actually designed by all the people who created the iPod and iPhone at Apple... basically, it's iPhone Interface Version 2 ("improved"). In any case, for medical apps the individual interface is key. What is "superior" on one platform may suck on another. Epocrates on Apple, is kind of borked compared to some of the other platforms. And the (current) lack of multitasking on iPhone means you can't easily switch between medical apps, say to check a DICOM and compare it to a Google/emedicine/U2D image. That's just a single example where the modal iPhone interface restricts your workflow.

FWIW, many attendings at my home institution discourage using smartphones on rounds. The base assumptions seems to be that you must be emailing/text messaging, and I guess I consider it kind of douchey to whip out the phone on rounds and announce "I'll just look that up on my handy smartphone". I keep my phone parked in my pocket as a result.

That being said, smartphones ar really useful in clinic for looking up drug dosing, using a med calc when writing notes in the morning, or during down time to read something productive if a computer terminal may not be open. In those circumstance, I don't particularly feel one platform is better than any other.
 
FWIW, many attendings at my home institution discourage using smartphones on rounds. The base assumptions seems to be that you must be emailing/text messaging, and I guess I consider it kind of douchey to whip out the phone on rounds and announce "I'll just look that up on my handy smartphone". I keep my phone parked in my pocket as a result.

Agree with this strongly. One of our course directors actually started directly addressing this - saying he'd gotten a NUMBER of complaints about "unprofessional" behavior on rounds from attendings. He tried to explain that in all likelihood students were using the phones for professional reasons, but attendings still give you the evil eye if you have your phone out.
 
My residency program gave us iPod Touches instead of PDAs and most of us use them regularly. I think it's much more practical than the iPad is, it fits in my pocket no matter if I'm in the nursery, the ICU, the ER, on the wards or in clinic. That would obviously not be the case with an iPad.
 
That's what everyone's told me, so I bought a touch and immediately jailbroke it. I've got everything now, from Epocrates, Tarascon's, Lexicomp, and the Merck Manual, to Guitar Hero and a Chinese-English dictionary. Best of all, it all fits in my pocket. I don't know what functionality a PDA would add, but I am very satisfied with the apps on my touch.

My residency program gave us iPod Touches instead of PDAs and most of us use them regularly. I think it's much more practical than the iPad is, it fits in my pocket no matter if I'm in the nursery, the ICU, the ER, on the wards or in clinic. That would obviously not be the case with an iPad.
 
What matters is the apps. Both iphone and ipad are excellent because apps will keep growing.
 
There is an IM resident who carries his iPad around in the ICU where I work. He definitely is that guy. He single handedly convinced me to get an iPhone.
 
One of my residents carried an ipad (female and kinda indie rock/american apparel, so not "that guy") with a nice little satchel around her shoulder. My issue was that if you're gonna go far enough to get an IPad, you should bring up every pt profile on it and look stuff up on the fly, instead of using it occasionally like my resident did.

Honestly though I think an ipod touch/iphone is sufficient since it's small and handy, and because 90% of the MDs I encountered (intern to hospitalists) had iphones and weren't afraid to use them on rounds to look up journal articles or adjusting calcium or whatever.
 
Agree with this strongly. One of our course directors actually started directly addressing this - saying he'd gotten a NUMBER of complaints about "unprofessional" behavior on rounds from attendings. He tried to explain that in all likelihood students were using the phones for professional reasons, but attendings still give you the evil eye if you have your phone out.

The head of our clinical education department sent out an email a few months ago with the same "concerns". My thinking is why purchase a pocket reference which gets updated every year forcing you to purchase a new one when you can have access to an app that is dynamically updated (i.e. epocrates or tarascon on your iPhone or other PDA instead of tarascon or PDR in your pocket).
 
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