Is 450K or 500K worth it?

[hard08]

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What do your parents do?

Combined they make 50-60K. They were just really good at saving and managing their money. I'm not rich or anything.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Combined they make 50-60K. They were just really good at saving and managing their money. I'm not rich or anything.

They have 200k to give you? Wow

Anyways hope you get accepted to a cheaper school man. This situation sucks

 

[hard08]

If you have a 3.9+ what is keeping you out of the Canadian MD system? Too low of an MCAT? Did you study enough for it?

It's a lot to ask and even if they can provide it, you'd have to find a place you wanted to live in America, and even if you did you'd still be burdened by debt levels a lot higher than most. This is the kind of situation where you really have to feel like it's a calling and a lot of sacrifice is worthwhile, which may not be the case if you'd be very happy as a comfortably Canadian dentist/orthodontist/oral surg

Verbal is keeping me out. I got a 8 in verbal but the rest was fine. 30 overall. And Canadian med schools are like really hard to get into... like you need a 129 or 130 (not sure what the cutoff was) CARS minimum to apply to one school (Western) and another school requires basically a 127 verbal to be competitive (McMaster). Queens required a 10. Toronto a 9. Ottawa doesn't look at MCAT but next year they will.

I'm in Ontario so out of province schools like BC, McGill aren't really likely.

 

[efle]

Huh, that's a weird fascination with Verbal you have up there. An even ~10/10/10 breakdown for a 30 has long been a good target for people looking to get into US MD programs too, but being a little differently distributed like 11/8/11 isn't some kind of kiss of death here. If anything, Verbal is the best section to have your weak score in for US MD, and it also does not correlate as well with our Step exams as Bio/Physical science sections do.

Were you consistently getting 8s on AAMC practice exams? Would it maybe be worth a shot at the new MCAT2015? Or is it definitely this US DO option or else Canadian dentistry?

 

[hard08]

Canada does have PA degrees but I'm not interested in that as I would feel inferior to doctors. (Just a feeling I know I wouldn't be able to get over).
It sounds like you're actually not very interested in medicine itself and moreso into the 'prestige' or 'label' of being a doctorate or professional. If that is the case, there's a good chance you'll never be fully satisfied as a physician and may burn out early in your medical career. So it would not make sense to take on such a huge debt load. Go dental if the DAT was that easy, you've got the grades, and tuition is that much cheaper -- and become some sort of oral surgeon and call it good.

I wasn't trying to be dismissive of PAs or anything. It's just that working in that situation would always be like a reminder of what you couldn't achieve y'know.
Or like a dental hygienist.

Oral surgeon is actually pretty hard to do though. Very competitive. And I don't think I would want to do 4 years (or however long it is) of residency surgeon hours and the lifestyle afterwards. Don't think I would specialize, but if I did it wouldn't be OMFS.

Huh, that's a weird fascination with Verbal you have up there. An even ~10/10/10 breakdown for a 30 has long been a good target for people looking to get into US MD programs too, but being a little differently distributed like 11/8/11 isn't some kind of kiss of death here. If anything, Verbal is the best section to have your weak score in for US MD, and it also does not correlate as well with our Step exams as Bio/Physical science sections do.

Were you consistently getting 8s on AAMC practice exams? Would it maybe be worth a shot at the new MCAT2015? Or is it definitely this US DO option or else Canadian dentistry?

Yeah I was getting 8 and 9s. I could try the new MCAT2015, apply to Canadian med and Canadian dent. Most likely I would end up in dental because even with good GPA and MCAT, they're still so competitive. And I would only be applying to 4 schools as I would never be able to achieve a 130 CARS lol.

I do like dentistry and probably would have already done it but the saturation issue in Canada is pretty bad. That's probably the only thing I'm concerned with about dentistry. And the business aspect which doesn't really interest me that much. But I think after my debt was paid off, I would work less, like 3 or 4 days.

 

[HopefulSlav]

Hi,

I got accepted to MSUCOM and the tuition is about 60K a year (for Canadians which I am).
Living expenses are around 20K.
80K per year X4 = 320K

with the ****ty CAD, it comes to a total of about 450K which I should probably overestimate to 500K to be honest (with interest and other costs I'm not considering).

I am Canadian so with residencies, I would be at a disadvantage and FM is most likely where I will end up.

Is 450K or 500K really worth it? I mean I want to be a doctor but I don't want to be a debt slave.

Thanks for your time
(I posted this on the pre-DO forums too but I wanted to get pre-MD students opinion as well)

Girls don't care how much you're in debt, just that you're a doctor. Bear in mind you could marry someone and dump half of your debt on them....not that I would do that

 

[hard08]

They have 200k to give you? Wow

Anyways hope you get accepted to a cheaper school man. This situation sucks

My parents saved and invested a lot I guess. I think they are just really financially aware and conservative. And probably so am I lol.

They bought a house in Toronto before the housing boom so they were lucky in that respect but they haven't done any thing stupid with their money. No credit card debt or anything dumb like that. Bought reasonable cars they could afford. Just common sense really which I think too many people are lacking nowadays.

Live within your means, don't spend money you don't have and SAVE.

 

[hard08]

Girls don't care how much you're in debt, just that you're a doctor. Bear in mind you could marry someone and dump half of your debt on them....not that I would do that

I am a girl haha.

 

[efle]

I do like dentistry and probably would have already done it but the saturation issue in Canada is pretty bad. That's probably the only thing I'm concerned with about dentistry. And the business aspect which doesn't really interest me that much. But I think after my debt was paid off, I would work less, like 3 or 4 days.

I think if you want that kind of lifestyle, with decent income working like 30 hrs/week, you should go for the far, far cheaper dentistry and not look back. Saturation might mean practicing in a less than ideal place for a while, but that would likely end up being a financially motivated decision you'd have to make with your DO too. And with the DO a relaxed work/life balance any time before the tail end of your work career is not really feasible under that level of debt

 

[hard08]

I think if you want that kind of lifestyle, with decent income working like 30 hrs/week, you should go for the far, far cheaper dentistry and not look back. Saturation might mean practicing in a less than ideal place for a while, but that would likely end up being a financially motivated decision you'd have to make with your DO too. And with the DO a relaxed work/life balance any time before the tail end of your work career is not really feasible under that level of debt

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I wanna just take it easy in life lol. I'll be less stressed this way. I'll probably pay my debt as soon as I can after graduation, maintain my current lifestyle with working 3-4 days and save+invest the rest. Then retire.

Saturation really does freak me out though haha.

Thanks for your help. Good luck to you!

 

[star.buck]

Hi,

I got accepted to MSUCOM and the tuition is about 60K a year (for Canadians which I am).
Living expenses are around 20K.
80K per year X4 = 320K

with the ****ty CAD, it comes to a total of about 450K which I should probably overestimate to 500K to be honest (with interest and other costs I'm not considering).

I am Canadian so with residencies, I would be at a disadvantage and FM is most likely where I will end up.

Is 450K or 500K really worth it? I mean I want to be a doctor but I don't want to be a debt slave.

Thanks for your time
(I posted this on the pre-DO forums too but I wanted to get pre-MD students opinion as well)

Current Med student... and I struggled a bit with the debt before I decided to apply to med school. Here's my line of thinking, and what finally made me decide the price tag is worth the reward. Please note this might be a little different for you, because you're Canadian, I'm a Michigan student. Yet, I'm sure Canada has some repayment programs and the pay-grade has to be somewhat similar.

1. Just taking into account the debt/pay. If you were given the option of paying $500,000 for a lottery ticket that was GUARANTEED to give you at least a $250,000 paycheck for the rest of your life... would you buy it?

2. There are repayment programs, through the government and through hospitals that will want to recruit you. They will give you extra, on top of your paycheck, to put towards your loans. In the States we have a program that if we serve in an under-served area for 10 years, making minimum payment on our loans during that time, the entire rest of our debt is forgiven. I know doctors, who fresh out of family med residency, were given a sign on bonus of just over $200k, and are payed $250k a year. I know radiologists who had similar sign-ons, and get a higher salary.

3. If you won the lottery, and were financially free the rest of your life, what would you do? For me, the answer was: be a doctor. The paycheck doesn't matter, the life of serving patients is what draws me and the cash is just a benefit of this fulfilling life.

4. I'd suggest you get out a piece of paper and do this with your google nearby.
- calculate how much your student loan payment would be.
- calculate your take home pay for your lowest paid specialty of interest
- come up with a hypothetical budget. (house payment, car payment, food, etc)
- balance that budget and see how much you have left over. For me, calculating in a nice sized house (not a mansion), and a Subaru payment, the left over was $3k-4K a month. Factoring in I currently live on $1200 a month comfortably, and will also have my husband's salary to add... I'm pretty sure I'd be able to wipe out my debt without an government/program assistance. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to do the same. The numbers, WRITTEN DOWN, in front of you will reveal the value of your education and assure you that if you're willing to take on this endeavor it will be worth it.