Is a Letter of Intent binding?

[deleted887473]

I sent a letter of intent to one of my schools I interviewed stating that I would go if offered admission. This school hasn't given me a decision yet, but I have since been accepted at a different school that I would much rather go to instead. Would there be any consequences if I don't end up going to the first school even when they accept me?

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[Talldoctor96]

*brain implosion*

 

[deleted887473]

*brain implosion*

I mean there's a good chance that they won't accept me anyway so I don't have to worry about it lol

 

[Moko]

And this is why letters of intent (especially those received this early on) are handled with fistfuls of salt. So much can (and does) change between now and when applicants need to commit to one school.

No, LOIs are not binding. And yes, you are part of the problem.

 

[Goro]

I sent a letter of intent to one of my schools I interviewed stating that I would go if offered admission. This school hasn't given me a decision yet, but I have since been accepted at a different school that I would much rather go to instead. Would there be any consequences if I don't end up going to the first school even when they accept me?

Nope. Not worth the electrons they're written on. How would you interpret the guy at the bar who says to the girl "But I'll still respect you in the morning?!!!

???

 

[Med Ed]

I sent a letter of intent to one of my schools I interviewed stating that I would go if offered admission. This school hasn't given me a decision yet, but I have since been accepted at a different school that I would much rather go to instead. Would there be any consequences if I don't end up going to the first school even when they accept me?

Look, you need to make this right. Have the wedding soon, before she starts showing.

 

[LunaOri]

So retract your letter of intent. Don't wait for them to accept you and then turn them down. Sigh....

 

[deleted887473]

Look, you need to make this right. Have the wedding soon, before she starts showing.

What do you mean?

 

[LizzyM]

Is a Letter of Intent binding?​

About as binding as presenting an engagement ring and a proposal, and, while waiting for her answer, meeting someone who is into you and who you want to marry.

That is your predicament. Do you think that the presentation of the engagement ring is a binding agreement?

 

[Damson]

What do you mean?

Dear Office of Admissions at [institution],

~state that you'd like to retract your letter of intent~

Thank you for your time in evaluating my application and follow-up materials.

Sincerely,
Desdet

 

[deleted887473]

Is a Letter of Intent binding?​

About as binding as presenting an engagement ring and a proposal, and, while waiting for her answer, meeting someone who is into you and who you want to marry.

That is your predicament. Do you think that the presentation of the engagement ring is a binding agreement?

I see. I think I will keep presenting the engagement ring in case she says yes. Then I would have options.

 

[LunaOri]

I see. I think I will keep presenting the engagement ring in case she says yes. Then I would have options.

You already said you’d much rather go to the other school. You don’t need to withdraw your application to the first school, but starting off your career with a big, fat lie doesn’t speak well of your ethics.

 

[Damson]

I see. I think I will keep presenting the engagement ring in case she says yes. Then I would have options.

Lizzy is using that example as an analogy. Your reply engages a very different scenario because you will hurt her feelings if you renounce your commitment to her...after she accepts your proposal for lifelong commitment to each other.

On the other hand, med schools won't feel hurt because you failed to honor your LOI. It is ultimately non-binding, as is a marriage proposal. What @LizzyM means is that your sense of your own integrity is on the line.

 

[Goro]

You already said you’d much rather go to the other school. You don’t need to withdraw your application to the first school, but starting off your career with a big, fat lie doesn’t speak well of your ethics.

This is why Admissions Deans treat LOIs as lies.

OP, Pay attention:
Here’s one Adcom member’s thoughts on the matter:

“We only invite amazing students to interview. It is quite unlikely that further good deeds or achievements will have an effect since only the students who have already wowed us are interviewed.”

“One serious thought for a moment. You want to become a physician, a profession that highly values ethical behavior. Yet even before you start training for this profession, you want take the unethical act of making promises to two different schools that you will attend over any other school?” -gonnif

From the wise Med Ed: [What med schools…] accept and desire are two different things. My institution, for instance, will accept practically anything a given applicant wants to forward along, but only rarely do we consider it a worthwhile addition to the package.

And yes, some of us have gotten a little jaded about LOI's. I could fill a barrel with all the post-interview correspondence I have received that has not translated into a single matriculant. This has all gotten mighty complicated and burdensome for what is essentially a zero sum game.

It's generally not burdensome for an applicant to upload something to the portal, and once in a great while it does tip us off with some useful info. I can think of one individual who had a stellar application, like Harvard/Yale/Stanford-worthy, and a superb interview, who sent us several updates and a LOI. We were somewhat perplexed by this person's tenacious interest in our program. Turns out there were family/geographical reasons behind the whole thing, the applicant just never felt comfortable directly playing that card.

When it comes down to waitlist time I will scan through what folks have uploaded post-interview. The vast majority of times it has no impact. Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.

See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

 

[ThatSerb]

This is why Admissions Deans treat LOIs as lies.

OP, Pay attention:
Here’s one Adcom member’s thoughts on the matter:

“We only invite amazing students to interview. It is quite unlikely that further good deeds or achievements will have an effect since only the students who have already wowed us are interviewed.”

“One serious thought for a moment. You want to become a physician, a profession that highly values ethical behavior. Yet even before you start training for this profession, you want take the unethical act of making promises to two different schools that you will attend over any other school?” -gonnif

From the wise Med Ed: [What med schools…] accept and desire are two different things. My institution, for instance, will accept practically anything a given applicant wants to forward along, but only rarely do we consider it a worthwhile addition to the package.

And yes, some of us have gotten a little jaded about LOI's. I could fill a barrel with all the post-interview correspondence I have received that has not translated into a single matriculant. This has all gotten mighty complicated and burdensome for what is essentially a zero sum game.

It's generally not burdensome for an applicant to upload something to the portal, and once in a great while it does tip us off with some useful info. I can think of one individual who had a stellar application, like Harvard/Yale/Stanford-worthy, and a superb interview, who sent us several updates and a LOI. We were somewhat perplexed by this person's tenacious interest in our program. Turns out there were family/geographical reasons behind the whole thing, the applicant just never felt comfortable directly playing that card.

When it comes down to waitlist time I will scan through what folks have uploaded post-interview. The vast majority of times it has no impact. Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.

See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

so basically, don't send them

 

[r2med]

so basically, don't send them

The question OP asked is not about sending, but about a letter of intent already sent.

Does OP need to retract - knowing that admissions deans anyways treat LOIs as lies?

 

[ThatSerb]

The question OP asked is not about sending, but about a letter of intent already sent. Does OP need to retract - knowing that admissions deans anyways treat LOIs as lies?

i was more so referencing this:

"Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact."

from goro's post

 

[456432]

Kinda sad that applicants like this ruin the meaning of LOI's for applicants like me who genuinely mean it. :/

I'm wondering if it would ever be feasible to make a LOI binding in the future, like how the Early Decision process works (right?).

 

[Goro]

Kinda sad that applicants like this ruin the meaning of LOI's for applicants like me who genuinely mean it. :/

I'm wondering if it would ever be feasible to make a LOI binding in the future, like how the Early Decision process works (right?).

I could see that being a possibility. But don't see how it would be enforceable.

 

[Banco]

Will there be consequences? No. You probably shouldn't have done it though, especially not so early.

But as many people have already posted, Adcoms's get burned by LOI's all the time, so I'm sure they'll get over it. But really, I don't know why you sent it so early when you didn't even hear from other places about acceptance/waitlist.

 

[r2med]

Will there be consequences? No. You probably shouldn't have done it though, especially not so early.

But as many people have already posted, Adcoms's get burned by LOI's all the time, so I'm sure they'll get over it. But really, I don't know why you sent it so early when you didn't even hear from other places about acceptance/waitlist.

OP must have sent it hoping that would move the needle

 

[Med Ed]

What do you mean?

I mean you looked that school in the eye and said "Baby, I want to be your alumnus forever." And then you stuck your letter of intent into its inbox.

Is it binding in the legal sense? No, of course not. Don't be silly. And I'm sure the school will someday get over you, or at least get used to the idea that you never matriculated. Graduation 2025 will be tough, though, as the admissions staff looks out across the auditorium and realizes that you're somewhere else.

 

[prestigeworldwide77]

I understand the initial question asked was regarding if LOIs are binding and how to approach a specific situation, but in general, do you all suggest not sending an LOI? I was planning to send an LOI to only my top school, a school I would attend over any other I have interviewed at, let alone applied to. I am just a bit hesitant since it seems LOIs do not make much impact at all and have the potential of being seen in a negative light. Thanks in advance!

 

[deleted887473]

I mean you looked that school in the eye and said "Baby, I want to be your alumnus forever." And then you stuck your letter of intent into its inbox.

Is it binding in the legal sense? No, of course not. Don't be silly. And I'm sure the school will someday get over you, or at least get used to the idea that you never matriculated. Graduation 2025 will be tough, though, as the admissions staff looks out across the auditorium and realizes that you're somewhere else.

Oh man. I shed a tear as you made me realize what a heartless monster I have been. I am withdrawing my application from all other schools and turning down my other acceptances. I will patiently wait for the school of my life. It's them or never.

 

[LizzyM]

Oh man. I shed a tear as you made me realize what a heartless monster I have been. I am withdrawing my application from all other schools and turning down my other acceptances. I will patiently wait for the school of my life. It's them or never.

Sadly, the school to which you sent the letter of intent is just not that into you.

 

[KnightDoc]

I understand the initial question asked was regarding if LOIs are binding and how to approach a specific situation, but in general, do you all suggest not sending an LOI? I was planning to send an LOI to only my top school, a school I would attend over any other I have interviewed at, let alone applied to. I am just a bit hesitant since it seems LOIs do not make much impact at all and have the potential of being seen in a negative light. Thanks in advance!

I'm just a premed who hasn't even applied yet, but I've been getting ready for around two years now, so I've gathered some information and formed a few opinions.

This issue is not so much that it will be seen in a negative light. It's more that @Desdet is not at all unique. Some people are just full or crap when they send them. Others are very sincere at the time (maybe like @Desdet) and then a better school comes along, and all of a sudden all bets are off.

Adcoms have way more experience than any of us. They have seen everything over the years. As a result, they know, as one of the adcoms who often posts on SDN so colorfully puts it, that the letters are nothing more than non-binding missives from anxious, desperate candidates, and are treated as such (i.e., meaningless). You might think a specific school is your "top school," but that would change for a lot of people if another school offered them a significant scholarship, or if any even more "top school" suddenly offered them an II. Even if that wouldn't be you, it applies to enough people that nothing anyone says at this point in the cycle is taken at face value by the adcoms.

So, no, it won't hurt, but it's also not going to make someone want you because you give them a non-binding promise to enroll, as long as nothing better comes along between now and orientation. An exception does exist much later in the cycle, when they are pulling from the WL and might actually be receptive to someone who is desperate and will attend without playing games or trying to leverage scholarship money from them at a time when they are trying to firm up the incoming class. But that's not now -- that's more like May-June, or even later! Good luck!!!

 

[GoSpursGo]

My philosophy is that LOIs are sent to treat the applicant's anxiety more than anything else. Send them if they make you feel better. Realize on some inward level that it's probably irrelevant. Don't get turned in knots about the righteousness/dishonesty/apathy that others display when they do/don't sent LOIs, because again, they don't matter.

Given that it didn't matter whether or not you sent it in the first place, there really is no reason to retract it now that you have changed your mind.

 

[Goro]

I understand the initial question asked was regarding if LOIs are binding and how to approach a specific situation, but in general, do you all suggest not sending an LOI? I was planning to send an LOI to only my top school, a school I would attend over any other I have interviewed at, let alone applied to. I am just a bit hesitant since it seems LOIs do not make much impact at all and have the potential of being seen in a negative light. Thanks in advance!

The only time it might be worth a shot is:
1) the school actually accepts these things
2) you have an accept are a better class of school. Drexel will likely pay attention if you're turning down U Penn, but they won't be impressed if you'll turn down Temple. Likewise, U Penn won't care if you're turning down both Temple AND Drexel. Turning down Yale will get thier attention, however.

Capeesh?

 

[456432]

The only time it might be worth a shot is:
1) the school actually accepts these things
2) you have an accept are a better class of school. Drexel will likely pay attention if you're turning down U Penn, but they won't be impressed if you'll turn down Temple. Likewise, U Penn won't care if you're turning down both Temple AND Drexel. Turning down Yale will get thier attention, however.

Capeesh?

Should we mention the schools we turned down by name? I've heard mixed answers since it could potentially come off as bragging/being cocky.

 

[LizzyM]

If a school thinks that you are going to a top 10 and that you will only hurt their yield (proportion of offers that get accepted) then they won't make an offer to you. But if you acknowledge that you got into a top 10 but would prefer their school for some personal reason (close to family, etc) then it can help to name names.

 

[KnightDoc]

If a school thinks that you are going to a top 10 and that you will only hurt their yield (proportion of offers that get accepted) then they won't make an offer to you. But if you acknowledge that you got into a top 10 but would prefer their school for some personal reason (close to family, etc) then it can help to name names.

I thought the common wisdom was that adcoms only cared about yield (resource) protection on the front-end, when allocating scarce IIs, and on the back-end when pulling people off the WL close to the end of the cycle. I was under the impression that they were otherwise agnostic about yield, knowing that it falls within an expected range every year and didn't go out of their way trying to manage it.

After all, given all their knowledge and experience, can't most adcoms tell right away who is likely to ultimately have T10 opportunities and who isn't? If they interview you anyway, aren't they past the point of worrying about yield? Also, isn't money used at some schools to lure applicants away from higher ranked schools? In addition, what's to stop anyone from lying about specific schools when writing these letters, just like they lie about their "intent"?

 

[Rheopecty]

In addition, what's to stop anyone from lying about specific schools when writing these letters, just like they lie about their "intent"?

This becomes slippery slope territory in a profession requiring great ethics and morals. Also, didn't Memelord lie last year about having a UChicago A?

 

[KnightDoc]

This becomes slippery slope territory in a profession requiring great ethics and morals. Also, didn't Memelord lie last year about having a UChicago A?

Absolutely! I don't know who lied about what in prior years, and I am definitely not a big fan of these letters, insofar as I agree with the sentiment that non-binding letters probably carry little to no weight.

My point was simply that if you can lie about your intent, you can also lie about other As, and, quite frankly, that should be the schools' problem if they are going to do something as unethical and potentially illegal as base an admission decision on where else a candidate holds an A. At the end of the day, all of these things are possible and are very likely done, which is why these letters generally mean nothing, even when schools actively solicit them. Desperate people will do what they have to do to gain an edge, and all schools by now have been burned by liars lying.

Yes, the profession preaches ethics and morals, and then admissions repeatedly creates a process that encourages and rewards acting unethically, all the while treating applicants like fungible widgets because the "sellers' market" allows it. Here's a wild idea -- why not just admit the best, most highly qualified candidates, without regard to who is willing to repeatedly beg for admission through letters of interest, intent, updates, etc.?

 

[candbgirl]

This becomes slippery slope territory in a profession requiring great ethics and morals. Also, didn't Memelord lie last year about having a UChicago A?

He did? Is that why he disappeared?

 

[Goro]

He did? Is that why he disappeared?

There's more to it than that, from what I vaguely remember. TOS violations played a part.

 

[LizzyM]

I've been told that some schools care about yield and some don't. To some, looking very competitive and very popular (almost no one turns down an offer from us) is important to some schools. I don't even know which ones. This can come into play with waitlist action where schools won't make an offer unless they are sure it will be accepted.

 

[KnightDoc]

I've been told that some schools care about yield and some don't. To some, looking very competitive and very popular (almost no one turns down an offer from us) is important to some schools. I don't even know which ones. This can come into play with waitlist action where schools won't make an offer unless they are sure it will be accepted.

Definitely true with some WL action, because, beyond increasing reported yield, it also makes filling the class a lot easier in the frantic weeks at the end of the cycle. I was just told that, other than that, to the extent schools are looking to manage yield, they do it through IIs rather than after spending time interviewing people who, on paper, look like they will be setting their sights higher. Assuming this is true, telling tales in a LOI about willingness to turn down a T10 shouldn't move the needle when LOIs are generally taken with a huge grain of salt by your peers, but, I guess, anything is possible!

 

[LizzyM]

Definitely true with some WL action, because, beyond increasing reported yield, it also makes filling the class a lot easier in the frantic weeks at the end of the cycle. I was just told that, other than that, to the extent schools are looking to manage yield, they do it through IIs rather than after spending time interviewing people who, on paper, look like they will be setting their sights higher. Assuming this is true, telling tales in a LOI about willingness to turn down a T10 shouldn't move the needle when LOIs are generally taken with a huge grain of salt by your peers, but, I guess, anything is possible!

I think that the situation is, in particular, when an applicant interviews with a top 20 that they prefer over a top 10 due to family circumstances (spouse just got into law school in the same city) or due to cost wherre someone has interviewed at a state school but is also holding an offer at a top school that is stingey with financial aid.

 

[DNAJB6]

Is a Letter of Intent binding?​

About as binding as presenting an engagement ring and a proposal, and, while waiting for her answer, meeting someone who is into you and who you want to marry.

That is your predicament. Do you think that the presentation of the engagement ring is a binding agreement?

It doesn't apply to engagements so much, but in contract law you can withdraw before a contract is accepted/ratified. So in that sense, it isn't binding. With that said, there are clear ethics issues raised by it.

 

[7thAndLASTPoopoftheDay]

Yes, the profession preaches ethics and morals, and then admissions repeatedly creates a process that encourages and rewards acting unethically, all the while treating applicants like fungible widgets because the "sellers' market" allows it.

This is the most accurate description I have ever read about this ****ed up process

 

[LizzyM]

why not just admit the best, most highly qualified candidates, without regard to who is willing to repeatedly beg for admission through letters of interest, intent, updates, etc.?

Define "best".
Define "most highly qualified".
If there are more equally "most highly qualified" applicants than there are seats, how do we futher narrow down it down before making offers?

 

[KnightDoc]

Define "best".
Define "most highly qualified".
If there are more equally "most highly qualified" applicants than there are seats, how do we futher narrow down it down before making offers?

Based on however you score a file.

Of course, beyond stats, all scoring is at least somewhat subjective, so, if necessary, maybe fine tune the scoring scale (maybe a 100 point scale instead of 10, or 10 instead of 5, or, whatever) so you that at the end you don't have dozens out of hundreds with the same exact score, where the tie breaker comes down to willingness to jump through otherwise irrelevant hoops???

Maybe it would be more fair to give the A to the person with a 0.1 higher aggregate subjective score, rather than giving it to the person who knew that sending updates, LOIs, etc. would be rewarded while disenfranchising the person who did not receive the same level of advising, or who had better things to do than spend dozens or hundreds or thousands of hours soaking up the wisdom on SDN.

 

[packratlabrat]

The only time it might be worth a shot is:
1) the school actually accepts these things
2) you have an accept are a better class of school. Drexel will likely pay attention if you're turning down U Penn, but they won't be impressed if you'll turn down Temple. Likewise, U Penn won't care if you're turning down both Temple AND Drexel. Turning down Yale will get thier attention, however.

Capeesh?

Hi Goro, I'm very late to the thread but I was just wondering why Drexel wouldn't be impressed if an applicant turned down Temple? I thought Temple was much higher ranked than Drexel or does it matter less when it's between two schools outside the top 50?

 

[Talldoctor96]

Hi Goro, I'm very late to the thread but I was just wondering why Drexel wouldn't be impressed if an applicant turned down Temple? I thought Temple was much higher ranked than Drexel or does it matter less when it's between two schools outside the top 50?

Precisely, rankings beyond T20 DONT really matter anyway

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro, I'm very late to the thread but I was just wondering why Drexel wouldn't be impressed if an applicant turned down Temple? I thought Temple was much higher ranked than Drexel or does it matter less when it's between two schools outside the top 50?

Only pre-meds care about USNWR rankings.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Only pre-meds care about USNWR rankings.

Correction only premeds on SDN and Reddit. In the real world I’ve NEVER heard a ranking of Med school mentioned as a premed or in medical school. Not once in 4 years of undergrad, and not once in medical school.

 

[CorgiLoaf]

Will there be consequences? No. You probably shouldn't have done it though, especially not so early.

I'm a bit of a law nerd so I did some digging.
Depending on how you worded the LOI and if the school was financially harmed, they could actually sue you for breach of contract.

In this scenario, you would have unequivocally stated you will matriculate, and the school would have relied on your LOI to extend you an acceptance, at the detriment of another potential matriculant. You then decline the acceptance and the school is unable to find another matriculant before the semester starts. The medical school might have grounds to sue you for lost tuition.

This will probably never happen, but if it does, I'm definitely sitting in to listen to the lawsuit.

 

[Talldoctor96]

I'm a bit of a law nerd so I did some digging.
Depending on how you worded the LOI and if the school was financially harmed, they could actually sue you for breach of contract.

In this scenario, you would have unequivocally stated you will matriculate, and the school would have relied on your LOI to extend you an acceptance, at the detriment of another potential matriculant. You then decline the acceptance and the school is unable to find another matriculant before the semester starts. The medical school might have grounds to sue you for lost tuition.

This will probably never happen, but if it does, I'm definitely sitting in to listen to the lawsuit.

Also you’re just an dingus. It’s just so selfish. And unfair to others. (Not u lol)

 

[CorgiLoaf]

Also you’re just an dingus. It’s just so selfish. And unfair to others. (Not u lol)

We just need one good lawsuit and all the fake LOIs will dry up overnight.

 

[KnightDoc]

We just need one good lawsuit and all the fake LOIs will dry up overnight.

Yes, because med school seats are so damn hard to fill that the harm to any school that relied on a BS letter from a desperate applicant would be truly irreparable. I wonder why we haven't seen one of these slam dunk lawsuits in all the years people have been accepted after submitting a LOI and then failed to enroll?? What do you think??

Any school that would elevate an articulate expression of desperation over the actual quality of an application, and make an admission decision based on it, deserves exactly what it gets. The fact is, as the wise adcoms have told us over and over and over again, is that the letters are very largely discounted or ignored, and med school admissions is such a sellers' market that seats can be extremely easily filled, even after classes begin. So, there would be absolutely no economic basis for the lawsuit you want to see, which is why we have never seen it. Not because your law nerd-dom is superior to that of the lawyers who actually represent these global educational and research powerhouses, and they just haven't thought of it yet.