i was talking to a person who is a good friend of mine at columbia who is currently in one of their final 2 years. this person told me that he/she hates the school because there are not enough patients. he/she is so worried that he/she will not graduate becuase of a lack of patients. this person is very studious. how does one become a good clinician under these circumstances? you can have all of the theoretic knowledge in the world, but the ultimate goal if you are going to practice is knowledge of how to treat the patient. it seems like nyu has all of the patients in manhattan!
is columbia really that good?
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You dont goto Columbia to be a GP or for clinical experience....you goto Columbia to be a specialist. However, any person from any school can be a specialist....however, if people at Columbia choose to be GP's, then yes...its basically a 5 year program.
Welcome back Woodsy. 😀
it just seemed disenchanting that a person from columbia would say that about the school....you think they would know all that already......i guess it just had to do with the stress in getting enought patients to graduate.
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I don't think you go there just to become a specialist.
In 2003 27 students went for a GPR and 15 AEGD.
About 22 people entered other specialties. So don't think just because you go there you will automatically specialize
http://dental.columbia.edu/education/post_doc_place.html
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dude, anyone can get into a residency program.....u just have to breathe and you're in.....the fact is, if you are gonna goto a GP, Columbia is NOT the place to go......during the my interview they told us only two people from last year went into practice right after graduation......and those two people worked for family members......with over half of the class doing a residency should indicate that Columbia is not the place for clinical experience, and should indicate the reputation Columbia has in the dental field. The stats will tell you that no dentist would hire a Columbia grad right out of school, cause they just aint ready....you goto Columbia to become a specialist or waste a year through a GPR......
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True, True, True...
This school doesnt allow their students do any clinical stuff until maybe late 2nd year or 3rd year into the program. First 2 years are structured with Medical students, so no room for clinical stuff... hence the extra GPR year that makes their DDS program 5 years... A-ha!.
Even if you decide to attend Columbia with "spealicialzing" in mind - the odds are still fair, but better than many other schools. But you will have to still work you butt off to get into one... just as much as other schools' post-grad candidates.
Columbia is only interested good test-takers, and so only accepts high DAT (20's) applicants, as a result - many of these good test-takers also someway do well on their boards, and become ideal post-grads... this is the school's ultimate goal. Read the interview feedbacks - they do question repeatedly the applicant's interests to specialize.
So, since 90% of all pre-dents want to specialize - many DS1-DS4 will tell you how intentions change considerably when you get into Dental School. It's an intricate situation, second thoughts are very common in Dental School (according to our SDN dental students
).The Choice is Yours.
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It amazes me how some people blindly say that they want to specialize and know nothing about the specialization....goto dental school first, see if anything interests you and then go for it......thats why i dont understand all the hype about Columbia......they force you to take one path, and if you decide not to take that path, then you are screwed with another year of school.
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Originally posted by Mo007
True, True, True...
This school doesnt allow their students do any clinical stuff until maybe late 2nd year or 3rd year into the program. First 2 years are structured with Medical students, so no room for clinical stuff... hence the extra GPR year that makes their DDS program 5 years... A-ha!.
Even if you decide to attend Columbia with "spealicialzing" in mind - the odds are still fair, but better than many other schools. But you will have to still work you butt off to get into one... just as much as other schools' post-grad candidates.
Columbia is only interested good test-takers, and so only accepts high DAT (20's) applicants, as a result - many of these good test-takers also someway do well on their boards, and become ideal post-grads... this is the school's ultimate goal. Read the interview feedbacks - they do question repeatedly the applicant's interests to specialize.
So, since 90% of all pre-dents want to specialize - many DS1-DS4 will tell you how intentions change considerably when you get into Dental School. It's an intricate situation, second thoughts are very common in Dental School (according to our SDN dental students
The Choice is Yours.
While a good number of students at Columbia specialize, the number as a percentage is around 35% (if I recall correctly). They mention that 97% pursue post graduate education and that includes GPR and AEGD. So they have no pretensions of sending everyone in the class to a specialty.
Not everyone is asked if they want to specialize, since they know that roughly 65% of the class will not specialize. The only school where I was asked that question was Temple (to which I answered that I want to be a general dentist). The people at Columbia were very nice and they didn't want to push you to do something so much as educate you about their program so you can determine if it is right for you. Contrary to popular belief they didn't push research either.
The school likes to select people with higher DAT scores because in their experience those people have succeeded in their challenging curriculum which puts you side by side with some of the brightest medical students in the nation. Getting a high DAT score is beyond good test taking skills, it requires a good understanding of what the question is really asking you; in other words the questions often test your ability to apply your knowledge of the subject to get the right solution. The questions are much simpler than those on the MCAT, but if you recall correctly they were not straightforward questions, they require understanding of the application of raw knowledge. This is why a student with a 4.0 GPA can have a lower DAT score than a student with a 3.5 GPA (apart from the fact that some schools are far easier than others - being in the top 10-15% to score an A in a school where the average student SAT is 850 is a lot easier than doing it an school where the average SAT is 1375).
By the way people cannot "someway" do well on the boards, they have to learn the material and know how to apply it well to do well on the boards (from what people have told me). These are the same skills that (among other things) make a good practitioner, and they are hopefully the same ones that the boards are testing for.
In any case it is worthwhile to be focused during your visit and to make sure you know what the program is about before you go there (or anywhere). I know someone at a particular school (not Columbia) who is quite unhappy with her program because it turns out that she really wanted a program with a strong focus on clinicals, but her school has a different focus.
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At my Columbia interview, Dr. Thompson told us that most of the students who choose to be general practitioners do TWO year GPR's...so for those people it would end up being thought of as a 'six year program'. I also think that because of this, for lack of a better phrase the school might be "deceptively cheap" for those that go on to be general dentists compared to other dental schools. Take for example, two grads that are going to be general dentists, one from NYU and one from Columbia. Let's say that the person from NYU has gotten a lot of clinical experience and feels comfortable working as an associate right out of dental school and makes 100K salary those same two years out of dental school while the Columbia grad is doing a residency and making 40K those two years out of school. NYU seems to be a lot more expensive than columbia (294,000 for 4 years vs. 240,000 for four years) but considering the incomes during the two years out of dental school the cost is probably equalized a bit. It certainly makes sense why the students at Columbia often say, "Don't come here if you want to be a general dentist."
just my 2 cents (while I still have them before the d-school of my choice takes them for tuition)😀
just my 2 cents (while I still have them before the d-school of my choice takes them for tuition)😀
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As far as I know most dental student, even from NYU do some sort of a residency after graduation GPR/AEGD. Very few come out and practice right away unless their daddy hooks them up. Also the price isn't that different 240k vs. 300k. I haven't seen NYU for myself yet so I don't know how good or bad their program might be. By the way on the interview we were told that Columbia averaged 93 on their NBDE 1 which is outrageous (in a very good way). I'd like to hear what NYU scored.
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Why all the dogging on Columbia? All dental schools are good, and you get out what you put in. You get a better than average academic experience there, and certainly do not see fewer patients, part II board scores are still good. People who went there are proud of their alma mater, MANY even come back to part time teach(more than at most schools). I think the reason that so many people specialize is because of the type of person Columbia accepts, not because of the education provided.
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Explain why Columbia has an above-average placement in GPR/AEGD programs? and why do Columbia grads say, "dont come here if you want to be a GP"? Everyone knows that Columbia is THE school for specialization....not for GP!
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Hey Avingupta I believe i heard you say that you got into NYU. While there did anyone by any chance mention NYU's board scores. I'd really like to find out how NYU compares with others. Thanx
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I work as a dental assistant at a dental office. It's a rather busy office, and there are 4 GP's working here. 2 of them are Columbia educated and the other 2 are NYU educated. The 2 groups always tease each other, saying their school is the best. I do not honestly see that schools make a BIG difference. What kind of person you are makes the difference in the quality of work. I've been working here for almost 2 years, and I CAN TELL when a dentist is good or bad.
If you want to be a specialist and study hard, you'll become one no matter which school you went to. Columbia has a high % of students going into specialization because they pick ones with a history of studying hard and with a potential of doing so continuously.
If you want to be a specialist and study hard, you'll become one no matter which school you went to. Columbia has a high % of students going into specialization because they pick ones with a history of studying hard and with a potential of doing so continuously.
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I think people are missing the point of a GPR/AEGD. It is by no means a "waste of a year." In fact, if you look at those that specialize, I think you would be amazed at how many of them completed one of these programs before going into their specialty. I'm going to UOP, a school with a great reputation, and I think there's a really good chance I'll still do an AEGD through the Navy when I'm done with school. It's a great opportunity to learn a lot, and see things you would never see in private practice.
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This is true, however, I think the bigger reason of why their board scores are high, is because their curriculm is very medically/science based and that is why they do so well on the tests and hence, high specialist placement rates.
Im not denying that people from Columbia can be good GPs...its just gonna take them longer, thats all.
SOrry bud, I dont remember if they did say anything...try emailing Amy Knowles......she'll be able to tell you.
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This discussion is too important to be left alone to Pre-dents. None of us (personally) know exactly which schools we can tune into better. This can only be discovered when we start school... thats why we hear people in Columbia complaining about the school, and that goes the same for other schools.
All that matters is - we all have to be successful on all the difficult tasks any school can throw at us to reach the peaks we want to reach.
All that matters is - we all have to be successful on all the difficult tasks any school can throw at us to reach the peaks we want to reach.
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I have spoken to alot of current students at Columbia and they all seem to think they get a good education-both didactic and clinical. I stand by the fact that they continue with their education because of the type of person ACCEPTED not because of any lack of skills. I wouldn't go around telling specialists that they only chose their field because of a poor background in clinical dentistry. Anyway, if you want to know why people continue with their education you should look at Temples website...to quote them:
"In short, why in the world wouldn't you do a Post-doctoral Program in General Dentistry"
http://www.temple.edu/dentistry/restorat/program_aegd.pdf
"In short, why in the world wouldn't you do a Post-doctoral Program in General Dentistry"
http://www.temple.edu/dentistry/restorat/program_aegd.pdf
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Actually, when I was on tour at Columbia, i asked my student tour guides (both were nearing the end of their 3rd year) about their clinical experience and they told me its "ok, but not great", but they dont care cause they want to specialize....you can search on this forum as well for other opinions on Columbia and they will all say the same thing......the only one that is different is StarGirl, but she is just a 2nd year student......
About that Temple thing you posted, you have to remember that their AEGD program is geared towards ALL dental graduates.....so they are trying to promote themselves to other students from other schools.
At a strong clinical school such as Temple, according to Brian Hahn, only 14 people (out of a class of about 125) did a GPR/AEGD program......that tells you that if you graduate from a strong clincial school such as Temple (or Tufts, NYU, USC, etc), you can go out in the real world right away.
Look, the bottom line is this:
If you want to be a GP, goto a strong clinical school
If you want to be a specialist (and I dont know how people can know this so soon), do well at ANY school or goto Columbia/Harvard
how can anybody refute this?
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First off, don't tell me what the students told me! I have several friends who are fourth year medical students at Columbia, and they introduced me to fourth year dental students. They told me that although their clinical experience was not as strong as their didactic experience, it was still very strong. Secondly, your logic is flawed... go to any school to become a good dentist but if you go to Columbia or Harvard or UConn you are going to be a bad dentist, until you get more training from a great school like Temple.
Just because you bought into the rhetoric that Temple told you at the interview does not mean it is a better school. From your logic people that go into grad school at all went to undergraduate institutions that provided them with a lesser education.
People continue with their education do so for alot of different reasons, for you to assume it is due to a lack of education is a leap of undeserved faith.
Lastly, I think you can know before you start that you want to specialize.
Just because you bought into the rhetoric that Temple told you at the interview does not mean it is a better school. From your logic people that go into grad school at all went to undergraduate institutions that provided them with a lesser education.
People continue with their education do so for alot of different reasons, for you to assume it is due to a lack of education is a leap of undeserved faith.
Lastly, I think you can know before you start that you want to specialize.
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NO need to get angry there bud......read what I wrote 2 posts ago:
I didnt buy into the rhetoric.....Temple tells you outright that you goto Temple to become a GP.....although they have many people who specialize if they wish, their strong points are GP....they have nothing to hide....the facts talk for themselves...and Columbia tells you outright (indirectly though) that you goto Columbia to be a specialist....geez, the whole interview process was based on discussing specialties....didnt you get the hint?
I didnt buy into the rhetoric.....Temple tells you outright that you goto Temple to become a GP.....although they have many people who specialize if they wish, their strong points are GP....they have nothing to hide....the facts talk for themselves...and Columbia tells you outright (indirectly though) that you goto Columbia to be a specialist....geez, the whole interview process was based on discussing specialties....didnt you get the hint?
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Ill let the current senior dental students take care of this one.
😀
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True, and not.
I don't want to make this a long debate (It already is), but its true that an ego can drive people to perhaps whatever they want to achieve, and it takes a lot of devotion to go with it. However, education can suprise people at different levels, and it can differentiate people to what they deserve better... so those who go farthest - in many cases could have been less dedicated than the ones who fell into other inferior stages of education from the start.
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What Avingupta said about clinical experience is largely true.
Columbia SDOS students do not start comprehensive-care clinic until third year: http://dental.columbia.edu/education/curriculum_year3.html
Lots of other schools start comp clinic earlier. Some schools start comp care clinics at the start of 2nd year. Lots others start comp care during the start of 2nd year spring semester. The earlier you start comp care clinic, the more clinical experience you are going to get.
As far as specialization goes, you are NOT guaranteed a spot in a specialty program just because you attend Columbia SDOS. Even though columbia does have somewhat higher specialization rates (35% for the Class of 2003), you STILL need to have kick-ass GPA and NBDE-I scores (or have real good connections) if you want to specialize.
Columbia SDOS students do not start comprehensive-care clinic until third year: http://dental.columbia.edu/education/curriculum_year3.html
Lots of other schools start comp clinic earlier. Some schools start comp care clinics at the start of 2nd year. Lots others start comp care during the start of 2nd year spring semester. The earlier you start comp care clinic, the more clinical experience you are going to get.
As far as specialization goes, you are NOT guaranteed a spot in a specialty program just because you attend Columbia SDOS. Even though columbia does have somewhat higher specialization rates (35% for the Class of 2003), you STILL need to have kick-ass GPA and NBDE-I scores (or have real good connections) if you want to specialize.
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Actually, I am not sure I want to specialize, I was just saying that just because you don't know if you want to, does not mean other people are unsure.
And, I agree Columbia is more centered on sending people to specialize, but that does not mean you have to specialize. Back to my original point...poeple seem to be putting down Columbia because it has a better didactic portion than clinical portion-even though the clinical portion is superior to some other schools(not all). Basically dental school-you get out of it what you put into it. That is true for Temple, Tufts and Columbia. The schools are not ranked for a reason and by saying "Columbia, is it really that good?" Implies it isn't. I don't think you can say that and say it as if it were a faultless truth. (I believe irrefutable was the word used.) Every school has flaws.
Lastly, I didn't mean to sound angered, sorry if I did.
And, I agree Columbia is more centered on sending people to specialize, but that does not mean you have to specialize. Back to my original point...poeple seem to be putting down Columbia because it has a better didactic portion than clinical portion-even though the clinical portion is superior to some other schools(not all). Basically dental school-you get out of it what you put into it. That is true for Temple, Tufts and Columbia. The schools are not ranked for a reason and by saying "Columbia, is it really that good?" Implies it isn't. I don't think you can say that and say it as if it were a faultless truth. (I believe irrefutable was the word used.) Every school has flaws.
Lastly, I didn't mean to sound angered, sorry if I did.
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Dont forget..........
A lot of people end up going into GPR not only because they want to master general dentistry, but also because some of them did not match into the speciality of their choice! This applies to many schools......columbia especially. Most of the GPR residents still eventually apply to some form of speciality after their 1 or 2 year training.
It is rather foolish for someone to already know what they want to specialize in before dental school........I should know because that was also my mentality! 😛
Here's some interesting PG stats that I just found on columbia's website.
Click on the smiley...........😀
A lot of people end up going into GPR not only because they want to master general dentistry, but also because some of them did not match into the speciality of their choice! This applies to many schools......columbia especially. Most of the GPR residents still eventually apply to some form of speciality after their 1 or 2 year training.
It is rather foolish for someone to already know what they want to specialize in before dental school........I should know because that was also my mentality! 😛
Here's some interesting PG stats that I just found on columbia's website.
Click on the smiley...........😀
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One point that a lot of people seem to be making (not everyone) is that Columbia is the place to go if you want to specialize. It is true that Columbia has a higher specialty placement rate than most schools, but 35% vs. the average of around 20% (please correct me if this number is outdated). In my humble opinion, that isn't a very big difference. If everybody who goes to Columbia chose the school because they want to specialize, then 65% of them would end up disappointed. So assuming everyone chooses rationally, not everyone chooses Columbia to specialize. Some people go there because they really want to take the strong pathophysiology based curriculum that they offer, and they are willing to spend a year or two in a GPR program to have that very solid training. There are also other compelling reasons to go to Columbia, such as getting involved in dental policy, health care administration, teaching, or perhaps a position at the CDC or the WHO.
If you really want to specialize then it is better IMHO to go the school that you are most comfortable at so that you can do well in your classes and on the boards. It very hard to say to generalize about a particular school to suggest that the school is geared towards specialization when no dental school as far as I know sends more than half its students to a specialty program.
Getting back to Columbia, I think the school is excellent. They really seem to care for their students and the school has a very nice down to earth and personal feel to it. The small class size together with the fact that the school offers very inexpensive housing where most if not all students live promotes a strong sense of community. I would have gone there in a heartbeat if I were younger, but I am getting quite old and my focus is on getting myself grounded in the field as soon as I can.
If you really want to specialize then it is better IMHO to go the school that you are most comfortable at so that you can do well in your classes and on the boards. It very hard to say to generalize about a particular school to suggest that the school is geared towards specialization when no dental school as far as I know sends more than half its students to a specialty program.
Getting back to Columbia, I think the school is excellent. They really seem to care for their students and the school has a very nice down to earth and personal feel to it. The small class size together with the fact that the school offers very inexpensive housing where most if not all students live promotes a strong sense of community. I would have gone there in a heartbeat if I were younger, but I am getting quite old and my focus is on getting myself grounded in the field as soon as I can.
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Aileen, I don't doubt that you can judge if the NYU and Columbia dentists do good quality work or not. But I think part of the point of this thread is that straight out of dental school, the Columbia graduate may have less clinical skills than the NYU grad (key word is "may" - there are always exceptions). After some time out in practice, the less experienced grad (whatever school they're from) will catch up. It may take the Columbia grad a year of two or GPR before they catch up to graduates of more clinically oriented, procedure heavy schools.
I have to agree with avingupta on just about everything he wrote here, except for the part about "waste a year through a GPR." I think many people have echoed his ideas on this thread as well. However, I do have to say that many of my classmates who are capable of going straight to practice and have hook-ups waiting for them (mom, dad, neighbor is a dentist) are opting to do a year of GPR b/c they want the experience and don't want to stress over taking the NERB exam. It's not a waste of time, it's a choice of what kind of experience the new graduate wants.
I can't wait to start at my GPR and meet NYU & Columbia grads and to see this clinical competence debate for myself.
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i say go where you'll be happiest...forget the stats, for get the gp/speciality info, forget everything else and sit down and think about what school you'll be "happiest" at... and just remember no matter what school you end up at (andeven if you hate it) all dental school's hard... EVERYONE has complains about the school they're at... i know cause ALL my friends at other schools have complained to me before.... there's almost no easy way out... and it's a LOT of work and things to learn no matter what school you decide to go to!
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Well, a 5 year program might not be the best option when you can do it in 4 years somewhere else. It all depends (again) - if you want to go out there as a dentsit as soon as possible, with no intentions of specializing. Then it's comprehensible to let go Columbia's offer - but by all means not suggesting that you should if the circumstances (like your age) were the way you would want it to be.
Do the right thing.
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GO RED SOX
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Why would you goto Columbia for this? Every dentist ive talked to about this says its not needed.....I bet if you post this question in dentaltown, they will all say that knowing all that medical stuff is NEVER gonna be needed.....cmon, why would I care about the pancreas? Medical students dont learn about the oral cavity, why would I learn about the pancreas?
Im sure if you are gonna goto surgery, then this is a BIG plus, but lets get real here.....how many OMS positions are available out there? Dont count on it
Everyone knows the hype about Columbia is not warranted and I know my theory is correct. If Columbia was not Ivy League, its attrition rate would be MUCH different.
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YYYYYaaayyyyyyyy!!!! No need to further the disputes....we're all going to be dentists! one way or another.
P.S-Even though I won't be working on other parts of the body, I am really interested in learning about them.
P.S-Even though I won't be working on other parts of the body, I am really interested in learning about them.
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I dont really think this post is disputing anything. It is agreed that ~97% of columbia grads do post grad training
It is also agreed that Columbia does not offer as much or as early clinical exposure as other schools...NOR do they claim to.
Nobody says you cant be a GP if you go to Columbia. However, 4 years at Columbia will likely leave you less clinically proficient than 4 years at a more clinically oriented school. This is why they recommend a gpr/aegd.
At the same time, Columbia's intense didactic component has the tendency to produce high board scores. Boards might be a piece of cake after Columbia's frontend courseload, especially compared to a school with less didactic training. This is one reason why columbia students score well on their boards.
The real argument here is whether Columbia is as good as everyone thinks it is. The answer: it depends on YOU. you may like the idea of medical training. you may like knowing that you are well prepared for the boards. you also may want to graduate after 4 years and not have to ever do additional training and be better clinically than the other 4000 dental school grads around the country. One school can't necessarily satisfy all those requirements.
Don't ever pick a dental school because someone said it was good. Pick it because you fit in there. Choose the school that suits your desires. In that case, Columbia might be the very best school in the world. Or likewise, the worst.
Is Columbia really that good? You say yes, I say no, and guess what? We're both right.
It is also agreed that Columbia does not offer as much or as early clinical exposure as other schools...NOR do they claim to.
Nobody says you cant be a GP if you go to Columbia. However, 4 years at Columbia will likely leave you less clinically proficient than 4 years at a more clinically oriented school. This is why they recommend a gpr/aegd.
At the same time, Columbia's intense didactic component has the tendency to produce high board scores. Boards might be a piece of cake after Columbia's frontend courseload, especially compared to a school with less didactic training. This is one reason why columbia students score well on their boards.
The real argument here is whether Columbia is as good as everyone thinks it is. The answer: it depends on YOU. you may like the idea of medical training. you may like knowing that you are well prepared for the boards. you also may want to graduate after 4 years and not have to ever do additional training and be better clinically than the other 4000 dental school grads around the country. One school can't necessarily satisfy all those requirements.
Don't ever pick a dental school because someone said it was good. Pick it because you fit in there. Choose the school that suits your desires. In that case, Columbia might be the very best school in the world. Or likewise, the worst.
Is Columbia really that good? You say yes, I say no, and guess what? We're both right.
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wow all this over a school?
I don't know how this really started...
If I am to go to Columbia, it sure as hell won't be only because it is ivy league...I just had a great feeling when I walked into the school and felt that sense of belonging. May be it was bias but it felt good. I hope my fellow classmates feel the same.
Good stats, good feeling. Can't go wrong with that. As for GPR, whatever, well, if I as an individual feel the strong need to do so, hey well that's cool, I'll do it. If I can get a specialization match, even better. I don't know about you guys but I just wanna learn dentistry in a place that I like to be.
Columbia had always been my first choice and I was fortunate enough to be accepted. UConn might be #1, but I didn't feel quite the same as I did in Columbia. Nor did I have that same feeling at U of T. U of T was so cold and the orientation was run by students. None of the staff were really present and everything was so informal except the interview itself.
Avin, you found the school you're looking for and you dislike Columbia, great! 👍 I'm glad you chose the right school for you. And my fellow colleague Alioops, well, I'd be honoured to be in a class with someone who would defend their own school as you did.
Freedy as always, nice!..
I'm not gonna be a peacemaker and hell you can go on fighting all you wish. I'm not gonna stop ya. Just wanted to say that I like Columbia so I think it is the best school there is. At least for me.
Now is this feeling worth more than paying $180,000 more? well..we'll have to wait and see....
I don't know how this really started...
If I am to go to Columbia, it sure as hell won't be only because it is ivy league...I just had a great feeling when I walked into the school and felt that sense of belonging. May be it was bias but it felt good. I hope my fellow classmates feel the same.
Good stats, good feeling. Can't go wrong with that. As for GPR, whatever, well, if I as an individual feel the strong need to do so, hey well that's cool, I'll do it. If I can get a specialization match, even better. I don't know about you guys but I just wanna learn dentistry in a place that I like to be.
Columbia had always been my first choice and I was fortunate enough to be accepted. UConn might be #1, but I didn't feel quite the same as I did in Columbia. Nor did I have that same feeling at U of T. U of T was so cold and the orientation was run by students. None of the staff were really present and everything was so informal except the interview itself.
Avin, you found the school you're looking for and you dislike Columbia, great! 👍 I'm glad you chose the right school for you. And my fellow colleague Alioops, well, I'd be honoured to be in a class with someone who would defend their own school as you did.
Freedy as always, nice!..
I'm not gonna be a peacemaker and hell you can go on fighting all you wish. I'm not gonna stop ya. Just wanted to say that I like Columbia so I think it is the best school there is. At least for me.
Now is this feeling worth more than paying $180,000 more? well..we'll have to wait and see....
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Oh comeon who are we kidding here, we all know Columbia is the best dental school......way better then that "other" school.....cough upenn cough. I KID!!!!😀
BUt seriously, why are people trying to prove to others why a school is bad or good? As long as you like the school you pick thats all that really matters.
I know personally I picked the school that would give me the most number of options after I grad, and personally I thought it was columbia.
Fred
BUt seriously, why are people trying to prove to others why a school is bad or good? As long as you like the school you pick thats all that really matters.
I know personally I picked the school that would give me the most number of options after I grad, and personally I thought it was columbia.
Fred
im the one to blame for this debate, but i think the question was warranted. in starting this all, i was not trying to put a school down or put another on a pedestal. instead, i was attempting to determine where i would be happy for the next four years. i got into both columbia and nyu, but after many discussions with successful nyc dentists who were graduates of both schools, i decided on nyu. this is the school that will give me the best clinical skills, while still allowing me to specialize if i work hard enough.
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My feeling is just that you never know where the field will be in 20 or 30 years, so it doesn't hurt to have that heavy biomedical training under your belt as a dentist.
Also-just addressing a post before-GPR IS NOT A WASTE OF YOUR YEAR! You're learning skills that beef you up as a GP. Come on!
Also-just addressing a post before-GPR IS NOT A WASTE OF YOUR YEAR! You're learning skills that beef you up as a GP. Come on!
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Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I want to make one thing straight. I never meant to mean that a GPR is a waste of one year, because you learn nothing.....that is absurd. What I was trying to say is that a GPR is somewhat unnecessary since you have the chance of going to a better clincally-based school.
According to the ADEA, in 2002, out of all the graduates in the United States, 52% out of all dental graduates went directly into private practice/associate, 26% went into a GPR/AEGD, so that is the majority that went straight into the real world.
Now at a clinically based schools, such as Tufts:
60% of its graduates went directly into private practice/associate
20% went into a residency
20% went directly into postgrad programs
at Temple, like I already mentioned, its higher:
70% went into private practice/associate
10% went into a residency
15% went directly into postgrad programs
I dont have the stats for other clincially based schools such as NYU, USC, but they are definitely above the ADEA average. As you can see, going to a clinical school will not only give you assurance that you will go out in practice right away without wasting years in a GPR/AEGD, but you still have a good shot at getting into a postgrad program.
Lets remind ourselves how many Columbia grads went into private practice/associate:
2.6% (due to family member connections)
35% went into postgrad program
35% is above average, but compared to Tufts at 20% or Temple at 15%...is it really a big difference? It is when talking about clinical where 2.6% of Columbia grads goto private practice and 60% of Tufts grads and 70% of Temple grads goto private practice. Now thats a big difference!
Cmon Ivy Leaguers.....you're smart enough to understand these statistics. Columbia's curriculm indirectly forces one to go into a specialization, and if one doesnt choose (or doesnt get in, cause Columbia is not a guarantee), then they waste years in a GPR......talk about opportunities, eh!!!
SO Freddy, I dont know where you are getting this idea that Columbia opens more doors for you, cause as you can see from these lovely statistics, that just aint true. For law, yes. For MBA, yes. For medicine, perhaps. For dentistry.....NOOOOOOO
Im not here to lie, nor do I gain anything....however, I just want the truth to be stated. Im not gonna go on this forum and gonna say that Temple is in the best area, or that George W. Bush is the most honest person in the world
. Nor am I gonna say or let anyone else say that Columbia opens more doors for you. THese would all be lies.I have nothing against Columbia. LIke Ive said before, anyone can be a good dentist from ANY dental school in the US....its just that at Columbia, it will take you longer, and the person that says that Columbia opens more doors for you is obviously blinded by the Ivy League prestige.
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Avin,
Yeah you relaly should stop beating that dead horse. Ok true columbia trains its students to specialize, but then again the majority of students goes there just for that specific reason, so you see its a win win situation. Like I said goto temple or tufts if your want to be a great GP, and columbia if your goal is to specialize. Pretty simple. Peronsally I want to be a dental who can not only pull a few teeth but also understand the biomedical background behind it all. I think practicing dentistry will be way more fun that way.
Yeah you relaly should stop beating that dead horse. Ok true columbia trains its students to specialize, but then again the majority of students goes there just for that specific reason, so you see its a win win situation. Like I said goto temple or tufts if your want to be a great GP, and columbia if your goal is to specialize. Pretty simple. Peronsally I want to be a dental who can not only pull a few teeth but also understand the biomedical background behind it all. I think practicing dentistry will be way more fun that way.
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Sorry, but Ill mention one last thing in benefit for all the predents out there......if a biomedical education is important to you, Tufts has a very strong biomedical curriculm as well.....so Columbia is not the only one, although they make it sound like they are.
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Point well taken.
But I still dont understand how all these predents goto Columbia, because they want to specialize.......Unless you have family members who are specialists, or have shadowed a specialist, how do you know you want to specialize anyways? How did we know we wanted to get into dentistry in the first place? By shadowing and learning more about the profession.
Talk to many senior level dental students and they will tell you that their idea of specialization was not what they thought as predents cause they were thinking blindly and their ideas changed as they actually learned the science and instead wanted to be a GP.....This must happen with many Columbia students, however at Columbia, you are screwed with two extra years......
On the other hand, if one went into dental school and realized that they really enjoyed one speciality and decided to specialize, going to Tufts would still give them both the opportunity to be a GP right away, or have a great chance at a speciality program. Ok Ok.....Im done blabbing. Sorry for being annoying, but I just wanted to get this point across once and for all.
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