Is didactic learning really that bad?

[RogueBanana]

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So I may be the odd man out, but I actually enjoy lecture.

During undergrad I never skipped a lecture, because I really felt like it was a good way to be introduced to a topic. I learned a lot from lecture alone.

If I was unclear on something, I would watch Khan Academy Videos and other resources to make sure I understood the concepts. Then it was simply practice and repetition to hammer out the details.


I understand that many medical schools are shifting away from lecture, towards TBL and PBL. As someone who prefers to be taught conceptually in a didactic setting, is this strategy viable in medical school? We have used didactics for years and it has seemed to work out fine, why the sudden shift?

 

[6FFF]

Your strategy will work great in medical school. I think most people prefer a traditional lecture format for med school because the way TBL/PBL is set up by schools ends up being a huge waste of time because it's actually extremely rigid with the requirements of what they make you do. Whereas in the traditional didactic structure, you can choose to watch lecture at home and spend your time studying how you want to, instead of making bogus presentations for your small group. I thank my lucky stars every single day that I chose a school with traditional lecture.

That said, there may come a point where you become self-sufficient at learning and you won't even want to go to didactic any more, because you can learn the material on your own in less time. At this point you're learning for your own purposes and for treating patients instead of learning to answer questions that your lecturer will put on the test. This make sure it much easier to learn on your own because you can tailor your learning to what you need.

 

[drdking]

Very generally because medical education is designed to teach you to think, not just memorize facts.

95% of my undergrad was just a regurgitation of information provided. We're being taught to take in numerous different pieces of information, come up with multiple possible hypothesis, figure out what questions we need to ask to rule out different ideas and come to a logical conclusion and then make a plan of action.

Also because being forced to interact, process information and answer questions has been shown to be more effective in learning and retention (for most people).

Edit: Wanted to add that after second year we're going to have to act as our own teachers for the rest of our lives so instilling the ability to learn on our own is very important.

 

[HungryHydrogen]

To be honest, I never attended lecture in preclerkship but I would have to attend the PBL/tutorial sessions. I would just watch them at home and read from selected texts to cover anything else I wanted. Luckily my school wasn't too gimicky with the PBL and never made us do powerpoints or reflections on material but depending on who the tutor was I thought they were good opportunities for consolidation of material.

Lectures can be hit or miss. A well-delivered, relevant lecture will beat any PBL session in my opinion. But when the presenter is hard to understand, has a very thick accent, delivers material that is not quite at the appropriate level, etc. that is a different story.

 

[RogueBanana]

Your strategy will work great in medical school. I think most people prefer a traditional lecture format for med school because the way TBL/PBL is set up by schools ends up being a huge waste of time because it's actually extremely rigid with the requirements of what they make you do. Whereas in the traditional didactic structure, you can choose to watch lecture at home and spend your time studying how you want to, instead of making bogus presentations for your small group. I thank my lucky stars every single day that I chose a school with traditional lecture.

That said, there may come a point where you become self-sufficient at learning and you won't even want to go to didactic any more, because you can learn the material on your own in less time. At this point you're learning for your own purposes and for treating patients instead of learning to answer questions that your lecturer will put on the test. This make sure it much easier to learn on your own because you can tailor your learning to what you need.

Luckily the school I was accepted to has not yet gone "TBL crazy".

Very generally because medical education is designed to teach you to think, not just memorize facts.

95% of my undergrad was just a regurgitation of information provided. We're being taught to take in numerous different pieces of information, come up with multiple possible hypothesis, figure out what questions we need to ask to rule out different ideas and come to a logical conclusion and then make a plan of action.

Also because being forced to interact, process information and answer questions has been shown to be more effective in learning and retention (for most people).

Edit: Wanted to add that after second year we're going to have to act as our own teachers for the rest of our lives so instilling the ability to learn on our own is very important.

Sounds like medical school is a lot like Organic Chem.

Learn mechanism, Learn to apply mechanism, Learn how mechanisms interact with each-other, Apply various mechanisms to a complex pathway.

 

[Stagg737]

Lecture is viable, just understand that learning things in lecture and being able to apply what you learn on the wards are two very, very different things. The argument for PBL/CBL learning is that it starts to teach you the thought process you use on the wards instead of just giving you all the random facts without the deductive reasoning needed to actually make a diagnosis or prescribe a treatment. Imo lectures are fine for boards and the first two years, but once clinical years hit you have to organize things a lot more which a lecture-only curriculum doesn't do much for.

 

[RogueBanana]

Lecture is viable, just understand that learning things in lecture and being able to apply what you learn on the wards are two very, very different things. The argument for PBL/CBL learning is that it starts to teach you the thought process you use on the wards instead of just giving you all the random facts without the deductive reasoning needed to actually make a diagnosis or prescribe a treatment. Imo lectures are fine for boards and the first two years, but once clinical years hit you have to organize things a lot more which a lecture-only curriculum doesn't do much for.

Honestly my only concern for the first 2 years is Board scores anyway. Plus I usually do rather well applying didactic knowledge to real-time problems (hence my reference to O-Chem, which I loved and did very well in)

I'm comfortable adjusting to more of a deductive clinical learning style later on to meet clinical goals, I was more worried initially about learning styles with regard to board exams. I was concerned that the only way to do well on boards was to be comfortable with TBL when i'm more of a solitary learner.

 

[shouldigomd]

It can be. I think the traditional style of med school teaching is a thing of the past. There are many great teachers and many poor ones teaching the same crap year after year. When there are so many incredible lectures available online why should one have to suffer through a mediocre lecture? Not to mention 4hours of mediocre lectures.

Med school isn't difficult and most concepts are 75% memorization in the basic sciences. Courses like physiology / pathophys / pathology that had more gray area and quality lectures could be more useful for those courses.

 

[whatisthisstuff]

I like lectures for sure. I learn much better from a (good) lecturer and slides than reading out of a book atleast. That said, I do prefer when I can watch my lecturer on 2x speed and pause, rewind, get up when I need to, etc.

I do agree though that some really great teachers could teach things in 1/2 the time and everyone would understand it better and I use those resources too. On a somewhat unrelated note, this is part of what infuriates me about the cost of modern higher education. There is so much material available on the internet for cheap/free by the best teachers in the world yet higher education is incredibly expensive because we insist on certain doctrines of what an education is supposed to be. This could really stretch down to K-12 as well. There are brilliant people out there who could deliver information to way more people than ever possible before yet we seem stuck in the old fashioned classroom setting.

 

[Stagg737]

Honestly my only concern for the first 2 years is Board scores anyway. Plus I usually do rather well applying didactic knowledge to real-time problems (hence my reference to O-Chem, which I loved and did very well in)

I'm comfortable adjusting to more of a deductive clinical learning style later on to meet clinical goals, I was more worried initially about learning styles with regard to board exams. I was concerned that the only way to do well on boards was to be comfortable with TBL when i'm more of a solitary learner.

First two years just learn using whatever works best for you. Just keep in mind that high board scores doesn't necessarily translate to being a good clinician. I've met a few people that killed their first two years who couldn't talk to patients f0r squat or sucked at writing notes and documentation. I'm not saying doing better on boards won't help in clinic, but there is a separate skill set you need to do decently in the clinic that doesn't matter on boards.

 

[RogueBanana]

First two years just learn using whatever works best for you. Just keep in mind that high board scores doesn't necessarily translate to being a good clinician. I've met a few people that killed their first two years who couldn't talk to patients f0r squat or sucked at writing notes and documentation. I'm not saying doing better on boards won't help in clinic, but there is a separate skill set you need to do decently in the clinic that doesn't matter on boards.

Hopefully I won't end up like that! I like to think I do okay in the clinic. I just worry about boards since they have such a large impact on our futures...

 

[CharlieBillings]

I always felt I got a lot out of lecture if I was pushing myself to "actively" learn. I could passively nod along and listen to the professor, or I could try and understand what was happening which I would usually do by rewriting the lecture in different words and ways in my notes.

So I'm planning on attending lecture from the get-go, but we'll see how it actually pans out. I took upper div anatomy in college and didn't attend, because I can memorize better on my own. Might depend on the course is all I'm saying.

 

[Stagg737]

Hopefully I won't end up like that! I like to think I do okay in the clinic. I just worry about boards since they have such a large impact on our futures...

Chances are you won't. Most of the students I know that did pre-clinical did just fine during rotations. Med school is a lot less about how smart you actually are and much more about how hard you're willing to work. Usually the people that kill boards continue to bust their butts on rotations, so even when their clinical prowess is slightly lacking they catch back up just fine.

 

[deleted363248]

So I may be the odd man out, but I actually enjoy lecture.

During undergrad I never skipped a lecture, because I really felt like it was a good way to be introduced to a topic. I learned a lot from lecture alone.

If I was unclear on something, I would watch Khan Academy Videos and other resources to make sure I understood the concepts. Then it was simply practice and repetition to hammer out the details.


I understand that many medical schools are shifting away from lecture, towards TBL and PBL. As someone who prefers to be taught conceptually in a didactic setting, is this strategy viable in medical school? We have used didactics for years and it has seemed to work out fine, why the sudden shift?

Eh, it's better than that wretched "Socratic Method" they got going in law schools, that's for sure.

 

[21Rush12]

I think it's a mix. Having the option to attend or not is great. Some subjects are just better learned on your own time, because regardless of lecture quality it's the efficiency that counts most. I love going to lectures, but last block I think I went to a total of 4. Watching them sped up at home and stopping to take notes as needed is how I have to do it, but there are many people who enjoy going traditionally and learn quite well from it. I think PBL is a little annoying and shouldn't be a sole source of information, but who knows.


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