Navy Is GMO and GTFO worth it?

[RemiSig]

Hey all,

I was hoping to gather the insight of people that have been through this or are going through this. I have always had an itch to serve and perhaps romanticized the idea. Now that I have an acceptance to medical school I have begun doing my research into what military medicine truly entails and I have become disheartened by much of what I am finding.

It seems I have come to the conclusion that the GMO and out route is the most plausible as taking a risk on a military residency being up to par or the skill rot secondary to the setting that you will practice in after is just that, a risk. I am not sure I am willing to take that gamble and hope that I get stationed somewhere or train somewhere that will make me a competent physician. Please, refute this if some of you feel differently. I do not want to insult others career tracks or experiences!

But, this leads me to my question, is the GMO and out route a risk? Could it damage my future career? If so, what are the chances of this? Is it probable or unlikely? And the biggest question IS IT WORTH IT? Is serving your country as a physician worth it? Are my ideas of belonging to this brotherhood completely romanticized?

@WernickeDO @j4pac @Red Lobster Actual @sheepae @Dodadoctah

I'm sorry for calling you guys out, but your opinions would mean a great deal to me. I hope others contribute their experiences also!

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[j4pac]

Was it worth it for me? Yes. But that's because I really wanted to serve. I would have regret not doing it, in spite of the headaches that came along with it.

The people who go in for the money, or for anyone reason other than to serve for that matter, will probably leave disappointed.

Keep in mind that it wasn't my plan to GMO and GTFO. I wanted to make a career out of the military, but the Navy didn't have PMR. So I'm not sure of whether or not it is worth it as an actual strategy...I just learned lots about the process as I was essentially forced into it.

Knowing many military physicians who made a career out of it, the general consensus is that operational medicine is the best part of military medicine. So I think that you can probably get the best taste of military medicine by doing a GMO before residency. I know over a hundred flight surgeons, and I only know one who didn't like their job...it was someone who was stuck with an aviation training billet attached to a NAVAL HOSPITAL...ouch. Looking back...I loved everything about the Flight Surgeon job...except for the headaches caused by MILMED and the local Naval Hospital.

 

[WernickeDO]

But, this leads me to my question, is the GMO and out route a risk? Could it damage my future career? If so, what are the chances of this? Is it probable or unlikely? And the biggest question IS IT WORTH IT? Is serving your country as a physician worth it? Are my ideas of belonging to this brotherhood completely romanticized?

@WernickeDO @j4pac @Red Lobster Actual @sheepae @Dodadoctah

I'm sorry for calling you guys out, but your opinions would mean a great deal to me. I hope others contribute their experiences also!

Is it a risk compared to not joining? I would recommend you take a look at the 2016 data here: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf Compare it to the Army data in this slideshow: https://education.mods.army.mil/MedEd/HPSP/Powerpoint/GMESlideshow2016.pdf (click on advanced and proceed anyway). The military match is a smaller pool and can be affected by minor nuances that the civilian match is not; namely past service, family connections, etc. It won't damage your career per se: most people who GMO and GTFO say their military service helped them to match. You will be 5 years (at least) removed from medical school, and some PD's will appreciate your experience while others may raise an eyebrow. But by and large military service is a plus.

Is it worth it? That is absolutely user dependent. I can only speak for myself, and I respond with a resounding no. Residency aside, I met my wife in medical school and I have had to ask her to make concessions about where she could apply for training in order for us to stay together. It has worked out for us to be in the same city but she never wanted to come here. I regret joining every day for this reason alone. Meanwhile, my colleagues from medical school are all either graduated or about to and I am hoping I can return to an internship in 20 months from now.

As for service, I am proud that I chose to serve but if I had to choose between having this pride and not having to delay my training for 4 years, I would chose training.

As for a brother/sisterhood between doctors, you will perhaps have that anywhere. It is not unique to the military. The military views doctors as equivalent to PA's and NP's, and medical will always take a back seat to guns/bullets/gasoline/SHARP training, so don't expect that to be fostered.

Bottom line: If you want to serve your country and are willing to lose 4 years of medical practice to do so, then consider signing up. If you are looking for med school to get paid for then have some hooah adventures, then think again. Good luck.

 

[Gastrapathy]

You didn't ask me but...some people have no choice but to practice medicine before finishing the standard training of every other primary care physician in the US, others choose to place themselves in that role. I was a GMO. I didn't understand how bad that was until later. I hope my lack of training didn't harm too many people but I'll never know. I chose GMO. That was wrong.

 

[RemiSig]

You didn't ask me but...some people have no choice but to practice medicine before finishing the standard training of every other primary care physician in the US, others choose to place themselves in that role. I was a GMO. I didn't understand how bad that was until later. I hope my lack of training didn't harm too many people but I'll never know. I chose GMO. That was wrong.

I'm asking everyone that has had experience in this area! I apologize for not tagging you. Not sure who all the people are that have been through this. Thank you for your insight!

 

[Cooperd0g]

I'm not on the GMO and out plan as I went to USUHS and had a fair amount of prior time. However, I have friends that were HPSP and are on the GMO and GTFO plan for a few reasons:

Some took the scholarship for the money, but knew what they were getting into and were okay with it.
Some really wanted to be a flight or dive doc to do something not normal in the civilian world before "settling down" to be a "regular" civilian doc.
Others really wanted to serve in some capacity.
And some are being forced into GMO and are bitter and plan to GTFO because of it.

For the first 2 (maybe 3) groups it probably is worth it because they are getting what they want overall. For the last group it was clearly not worth it.

 

[River Rat]

it's something that will suck a lot while you're in, but if you sign up for the right reasons and understand what it means and what you're giving up, then it will never be something you regret. I've had a richer life experience after the things I've done, the places I've gone, but more importantly, the people that I've met. Sucked to not be able to specialize right away, sure, but I enjoyed my flight med experience, even my first assignment in North Dakota. If you keep an open mind and focus on the bigger picture, you'll realize that a lot of doors will be open to you. If you just focus on the military as a means of paying off school, then this is probably not for you because nothing will resolve the anxiety you will have over lost years and income.

 

[jabreal00]

The military is a mixed bag in terms of one's experience. I got out when my obligation was up but I have a generally positive recollection, now. However there were some tough times. Two years separated from my wife (who was active duty also). Two dreadful assignments post residency and fellowship training. I can remember looking forward to getting out. Now that I have been out my fondness in terms of recollections is from being part of something bigger. It's always something that I can say that I did. I served. I deployed. I sacrificed family and social life. I can say I gave back to my country. I am one of those people who has a poor impression of operational medicine. When one is attached to a unit in the operational setting, there can be a lot of micromanaging from non medical superior officers. Granted my only experience was while I was deployed. In that setting my medical recommendations were often overruled by the Battalion or Brigade commander. Everything revolved around maximizing operational fitness, getting the troops back in the "fight." It was less medicine and more administration and appeasement. Don't delude yourself if you think that there is any semblance of practicing medicine while GMO.

 

[WernickeDO]

Don't delude yourself if you think that there is any semblance of practicing medicine while GMO.

 

[Thanatopsis]

As I near the 3.5 year mark of (Army) GMOing, I look back on my experiences and believe they have better prepared me for a residency. I was one of those who couldn't decide on a specialty when the time came to apply for the .mil match, and one of the reasons I took a HPSP scholarship was because I anticipated that I was going to have a hard time picking a specialty when the traditional time to choose came. Thanks to this forum, which I've lurked on since pre-med times, I knew that the military offered an additional option, and I'm glad to have taken it. I needed the time.

There is a lot of BS unique to operational and garrison military medicine. I'm sure the Navy has similar issues/annoyances as the Army. It's going to be great to not have to generate a document every time I want to restrict a patient's physical activity. There are more issues to be named, but I'd be rehashing what has already been said in this thread.

I will miss the patients. The population is generally very compliant with treatment and motivated to get better. There are few exceptions to that. If you at all have an inclination towards sports medicine, being a GMO in the military is a good place to be. On a daily basis, 75% of my clinic is musculoskeletal issues (roughly 1/3 back pain, 1/3 knee pain, and 1/3 shoulder pain). Of course, you would probably want to pursue additional training in a sports med-oriented specialty, but it's not a bad place to start.

I'll also miss the camaraderie. When you're deployed, your unit is your family. You get to know your fellow battalion staffers quite well. It's been fun (and a challenge) being the medical SME for a deployed unit.

I'm happy to have lived all over the world for a time and the opportunities that has given me. Overall, I think the choice I made was a good one.

 

[RemiSig]

As I near the 3.5 year mark of (Army) GMOing, I look back on my experiences and believe they have better prepared me for a residency. I was one of those who couldn't decide on a specialty when the time came to apply for the .mil match, and one of the reasons I took a HPSP scholarship was because I anticipated that I was going to have a hard time picking a specialty when the traditional time to choose came. Thanks to this forum, which I've lurked on since pre-med times, I knew that the military offered an additional option, and I'm glad to have taken it. I needed the time.

There is a lot of BS unique to operational and garrison military medicine. I'm sure the Navy has similar issues/annoyances as the Army. It's going to be great to not have to generate a document every time I want to restrict a patient's physical activity. There are more issues to be named, but I'd be rehashing what has already been said in this thread.

I will miss the patients. The population is generally very compliant with treatment and motivated to get better. There are few exceptions to that. If you at all have an inclination towards sports medicine, being a GMO in the military is a good place to be. On a daily basis, 75% of my clinic is musculoskeletal issues (roughly 1/3 back pain, 1/3 knee pain, and 1/3 shoulder pain). Of course, you would probably want to pursue additional training in a sports med-oriented specialty, but it's not a bad place to start.

I'll also miss the camaraderie. When you're deployed, your unit is your family. You get to know your fellow battalion staffers quite well. It's been fun (and a challenge) being the medical SME for a deployed unit.

I'm happy to have lived all over the world for a time and the opportunities that has given me. Overall, I think the choice I made was a good one.

What has been your experience applying to civilian residency programs? I've gotten a very mixed reviews on this. Or are you not (or not yet) heading down that route?

 

[GMO2003]

I think the common thread you will find with all that valued their time in the military is that they did not do it for any type of financial gain. It was simply the desire to do your small part and serve your country. The funny part of it all is that during your time in you will find yourself sharing in the "misery" with your fellow GMO, FS, DMO or what have you. However, when you finally get out you'll realize how fantastic of a time in your life it really was and the great people you met along the way. So with all that BS just said, if you truly have a desire, then go for it! However, if you're only reason is for the short term monetary gain, well...you will be in a world of $hit.