Is it bad if you have little to no work experience

[premedmind]

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Will adcoms view you as a 'lesser' candidate if you have no work experience? I was wondering if I should focus on getting a lab assistant position (which basically entails cleaning up after the freshman) that is paid instead of getting a volunteer research position with a professor. Even then the lab assistant position probably won't work out because I don't have a FWS award. Do they just like to see you show responsibility and the type of job doesn't neccesarily matter?

 

[Law2Doc]

Will adcoms view you as a 'lesser' candidate if you have no work experience?

Um no -- most med school applicants have never held down a job. It's a good EC, but many ECs are equally good. I don't know where this rumor is coming from -- someone else asked the same question last week. Ponderous...

 

[Artful Dodger]

I've been wondering about this myself.

I don't have any time to obligate for a job. I can only handle volunteering (since it's flexible), school, clubs. Those are my commitments that take a chunk of my time. And yeah, I wish I had a job so I can pay off my school loans, but it's not going to work out. The only jobs I've had were Pharm Tech at Walgreens for nearly 3 months and Chem. Research (which I had a limited role in) for nearly 3 months as well. I don't even think my bosses remember me. If they do, then they vaguely remember me. Oh well...I'm going to stick to things I place higher than having a job (not to sound jealous to those who do lol).

 

[Jew Alcindor]

What is meant by work experience? Like a year-round job? Not counting work-study, I know very few people who have anything like that. Even when they do it's usually a part-time thing delivering pizza or something.

 

[medguy83]

I don't think not having a job hurts you at all. If scholarships and/or your financial situation allows, you'd be better off spending your time doing some quality research, volunteer work, and mcat prep. Granted, I think for a lot of people work is a must just to be able to finance school. But if you have the opportunity to devote your time to boosting your EC's, gpa, and mcat, then I think you'd be a better candidate for it.

 

[prionsRbad]

Um no -- most med school applicants have never held down a job.

😱😱😱 That's sad . . . .

 

[scowdeva]

Wow. I would have never thought that someone would consider not having held a job would hurt them as an applicant. I was a kid that has always HAD to work just to have the privilege to attend school, and I feel like I have suffered as a candidate for it (to all of you that could just travel and do an alternative spring break, or devote all of your time to volunteering and community service, I envy you)....Never did I once consider that it would be thought of in the opposite way. Very interesting, very interesting concept indeed.

 

[Law2Doc]

😱😱😱 That's sad . . . .

Not really. If you think about all the volunteering and research and other ECs that a premed is expected to have, it seems not unexpected that folks who didn't take time off from school aren't going to have had a huge amount of time for employment.

 

[87138]

Not really. If you think about all the volunteering and research and other ECs that a premed is expected to have, it seems not unexpected that folks who didn't take time off from school aren't going to have had a huge amount of time for employment.

Even in the summer? I agree that it's an odd notion to me that most applicants would have no work history. Perhaps it's because I come from a rather poor background, but I've had a summer job since I was old enough to drive. I can understand not having a job during the school year, but I figured most people worked a summer job at the very least. I know I did, and most/all of my friends from high school certainly did too.

 

[jon stewart]

😱😱😱 That's sad . . . .

well sometimes cirumstances can prevent poeple from working, so its not all that suprising. For example, i cant work because of my visa (i am not allowed to work). im sure that others have valid reasons too.

 

[AlexMorph]

If you need to work to pay the bills, then you don't have much of a choice. If you have to work a lot, needless to say your volunteering hours will somewhat suffer. The local hospital on my campus was not willing to accommodate me when I had to work around 30 hours a week at 3 different jobs, hence my volunteering is kinda low. I know it will probably be held against me, but it's kind of unfortunate. Hopefully, the adcoms are at least willing to listen to me.

 

[CBG23]

Even in the summer? I agree that it's an odd notion to me that most applicants would have no work history. Perhaps it's because I come from a rather poor background, but I've had a summer job since I was old enough to drive. I can understand not having a job during the school year, but I figured most people worked a summer job at the very least. I know I did, and most/all of my friends from high school certainly did too.

ditto; I figured at least working in the summer was the norm...

 

[gotmeds?]

well sometimes cirumstances can prevent poeple from working, so its not all that suprising. For example, i cant work because of my visa (i am not allowed to work). im sure that others have valid reasons too.

The most common valid reason for pre-meds is that their parents pay for their expenses. It does make me a little nervous that for most of my classmates, being a doctor will be their first real job.

 

[87138]

The most common valid reason for pre-meds is that their parents pay for their expenses. It does make me a little nervous that for most of my classmates, being a doctor will be their first real job.

That unfortunately sounds very likely. I was going to say something along the same lines originally, but didn't want to come off sounding bitter when I had just said something about me coming from a poor background.

 

[AlexMorph]

That unfortunately sounds very likely. I was going to say something along the same lines originally, but didn't want to come off sounding bitter when I had just said something about me coming from a poor background.

How does that make you sound bitter? You took responsibility for financing your own education. That is something to be proud of.

 

[87138]

How does that make you sound bitter? You took responsibility for financing your own education. That is something to be proud of.

Well, I basically had planned on saying something to the effect that most premeds have the luxury of living off of trust funds and such (regardless of the truth to that statement). I just didn't want to come off sounding like someone who has a chip on his shoulder because he didn't grow up in an affluent family.

 

[jon stewart]

The most common valid reason for pre-meds is that their parents pay for their expenses. It does make me a little nervous that for most of my classmates, being a doctor will be their first real job.

why are a little "nervous"...are you worried because they haven't had a serious job before that they will be incompetent? Are you worried they wont be up to par, may have bad work ethic? Whatever it is...i suggest that you not worry or be nervous about other people and what they have done and only judge them once you have been working with them. You cant judge people without acutally interacting with them. Dont make assumtptions.

 

[directdoc]

I come from a wealthy family, but my parents don't drive BMWs and Mercedes...more like a Honda. They are very modest when it comes to money. Both of my parents grew up very poor, so they want to teach me and my brother discipline. As a result, I have worked since I was working age. I never really think of working as an EC just because its something that I just kinda have to do. But hey, its nice to be able to make the resume longer. 😉

 

[StevenJ128]

Excluding "special circumstances", I can't believe anyone, especially a premed, could go their entire high school and undergrad careers and never at least have a summer job. I wouldn't consider my family extremely afluent, but I know a lot of people are less fortunate than me. Regardless, I've had to work summers since I was 14, and am going to have to pick up a job this semester. I thought everyone has had a fast food job, at least during high school?

 

[Nasrudin]

I don't fault a young person for not having a job as long as they are a hard-working person in general and that they have good common sense and appreciate the value of a hard days work, they have the potential to make good colleagues. I knew this young latina who was my study partner for a couple of classes, she had yet to work, but it was because her immigrant family worked extremely hard for her to have the opportunity for an education (an opportunity they did not have) and they would rather work 2 jobs each than have her waste study time working for minimum wage.

That said, I do shake my head when I hear Cindy from Santa Monica talking about all the amazing volunteer work she has done saving poor people from themselves in 3rd world countries for 2-3 week stints in the summertime--not realizing the gilded circumstance that permits such do-goodery.

I can only hope that Adcoms have some sensibility about these varied scenarios.

 

[Jew Alcindor]

There's no way most med students have never held any kind of job. Full-time, non-seasonal employment sure, but even most rich kids have summer jobs.

 

[AlexMorph]

There's no way most med students have never held any kind of job. Full-time, non-seasonal employment sure, but even most rich kids have summer jobs.

You would really be surprised as to the number of rich kids I know who have never worked in their life. Spoiled brats from Naperville and Oak Brook, IL, I shake my fist at you.

 

[Jew Alcindor]

You would really be surprised as to the number of rich kids I know who have never worked in their life. Spoiled brats from Naperville and Oak Brook, IL, I shake my fist at you.

Their loss...thanks to my job this summer I've got an outstanding tan.

 

[Summer Sweet]

Excluding "special circumstances", I can't believe anyone, especially a premed, could go their entire high school and undergrad careers and never at least have a summer job. I wouldn't consider my family extremely afluent, but I know a lot of people are less fortunate than me. Regardless, I've had to work summers since I was 14, and am going to have to pick up a job this semester. I thought everyone has had a fast food job, at least during high school?

Actually, my mom discouraged my brother and I from working while we're in school. You don't make much money without a degree, and it takes time away from studying, etc. At some point after 9/11, she was laid off and ended up dipping into her retirement funds because she didn't want us to work until we were out of school. So that being said, my first "job" didn't come until senior year of college, and it was basically tutoring 2 hours a week for some extra spending cash. Of course I plan on getting a real job between graduation and med school, but that's because I no longer have heavy course loads to worry about. My brother got a summer job this year, but my mom is making him quit before he goes to school in the Fall. It's not like we can't use the extra money, but her logic is that focusing more on doing well in school now would help you get a better job in the future, and even if it didn't, you at least have a good education to fall back on. If you do work while you're in school, some people get burned out and their grades suffer, and it's not like you can make much without your degree.

I've noticed a similar trend with my friends' parents. The parents who had to hold down multiple full time jobs in college that payed minimum wage want to do everything in their power to prevent their kids from having to work, because they know it's tough to balance it. However, some of my wealthier friends were pushed to get jobs by their parents, because the parents felt it was important to learn the value of money since their kids had it whenever they wanted. So I think a large part of working while you're in undergrad depends on your circumstances, how you were raised, etc. I should also mentioned that I chose a relatively inexpensive state school (less than $10k a year including most expenses) so that I could focus on studying instead of working.

 

[Summer Sweet]

There's no way most med students have never held any kind of job. Full-time, non-seasonal employment sure, but even most rich kids have summer jobs.

I know a couple premeds that secured "medical assistant" positions at their parents' practices so that they could add it to their resumes. And of course, the whole "I can't work today because I have homework" excuse works, because they are your parents after all and want you to do well in school.

 

[AlexMorph]

Tip of the hat to Summer Sweet's Mom. She is one dedication woman.

Wag of the finger to those who get flexible positions with their parents and claim that as "real-life job experience"

 

[Picklesali]

I know a couple premeds that secured "medical assistant" positions at their parents' practices so that they could add it to their resumes. And of course, the whole "I can't work today because I have homework" excuse works, because they are your parents after all and want you to do well in school.

Grrrrr....

 

[jon stewart]

Grrrrr....

amazing VR score....thats more impressive than anything else. 👍

 

[beauregard]

It always kind of amazes me when people don't work too..

I've had full course loads, 2 jobs throughout college, and still managed to do well. If anything, I have some pretty awesome time management skills. 😀

 

[capn jazz]

If I didn't work in college, I would have way too much free time. Then again, my jobs are my main ECs...

 

[mvenus929]

Excluding "special circumstances", I can't believe anyone, especially a premed, could go their entire high school and undergrad careers and never at least have a summer job. I wouldn't consider my family extremely afluent, but I know a lot of people are less fortunate than me. Regardless, I've had to work summers since I was 14, and am going to have to pick up a job this semester. I thought everyone has had a fast food job, at least during high school?

I didn't work at all during high school, unless you count babysitting my sisters (which might as well have been a job for how much I had to do it). The only job I've had in undergrad is working for a company like Avon.

 

[emttim]

You know, the ironic thing is before this thread, I thought already being in the work force (several years as an office manager for a small business and then year and a half at Blue Shield of CA as a claims processor) would actually hurt me in the sense that they'd question whether I know what I want to do or not.

Guess I won't have to worry about that specific stupid question being asked. All I gotta say is if you guys want a cake part-time job to do while going to college, EMT...nothing is better than getting paid to sit and veg all day inbetween calls and/or sleep or do whatever you want. Speaking of which, I need to start a collection for a N64 w/Goldeneye or X-box w/Halo for work.

 

[KnuxNole]

I have a part-time job.....

....school!!!

Summer jobs IMO are overrated. The primary reason people get summer jobs is to get fast and easy cash. The summer jobs I've worked at, I did NOTHING. Literally, I played video games/read books 10x more than I actually worked, and I got paid like any other person. As far as EC goes, they are only important if it provides a meaningful experience. In other words, if I put that I worked in 2 part-time for several years, but all I really did was snooze all day for cash, it's worth nothing.

 

[Nasrudin]

I have a part-time job.....

....school!!!

Summer jobs IMO are overrated. The primary reason people get summer jobs is to get fast and easy cash. The summer jobs I've worked at, I did NOTHING. Literally, I played video games/read books 10x more than I actually worked, and I got paid like any other person. As far as EC goes, they are only important if it provides a meaningful experience. In other words, if I put that I worked in 2 part-time for several years, but all I really did was snooze all day for cash, it's worth nothing.

Well I agreed up until you said that last phrase. For many students that little EC you call a J-O-B, is how we eat and stay indoors to have a place to study at night.

 

[gujusnike]

Even in the summer? I agree that it's an odd notion to me that most applicants would have no work history. Perhaps it's because I come from a rather poor background, but I've had a summer job since I was old enough to drive. I can understand not having a job during the school year, but I figured most people worked a summer job at the very least. I know I did, and most/all of my friends from high school certainly did too.

I didnt

 

[LabMonster]

Will adcoms view you as a 'lesser' candidate if you have no work experience? I was wondering if I should focus on getting a lab assistant position (which basically entails cleaning up after the freshman) that is paid instead of getting a volunteer research position with a professor. Even then the lab assistant position probably won't work out because I don't have a FWS award. Do they just like to see you show responsibility and the type of job doesn't neccesarily matter?

Are you an awesome student with ridiculous MCAT scores and an equally ridiculous GPA? There are thousands of students without "work experience" so you will not be without company.

Conversely, work experience will only help you. However, if you're without it, apply and see how you do!

What's amusing is that typical jobs for pre-meds in academic medical centers aren't as moving as real jobs that are held for long periods of time.

Honestly.

If working isn't an option, or you didn't do it, just be prepared to field questions on why not.

 

[blargh]

i work about 20-30 hrs/week during the school year. i'm required to be on-site 3 days a week (no weekends allowed). it's quite manageable and i still have time to do other stuff like volunteer. in the summers, i work full time. if i didn't work, i don't know what i would do with my time.

also a note that my parents are more than willing to pay for everything, but i have been working since 14. there's nothing wrong with teaching yourself about workplace politics...

 

[howtofr4y]

I'll admit my part-time jobs have served mostly as extra cash to spend, though I've had to pay for gas and restaurants and such...but still, I've worked part-time summers since I was 13 (golf caddy = slave for rich folk), and I believe this work experience will only help me in this process. Even if part-time work is for extra spending money, it still shows some work ethic. Plus, it seems that some schools (or most schools?) are all about admitting disadvantaged students, so I wonder if there is a slight negative bias against applicants who have never had to work a day.

I would like to add my surprise that most premeds have never worked, though I'm not sure if there is any proof of this.

 

[87138]

I didnt

Out of curiosity (I'm not trying to sound mean or snide or anything), what did you do with those 3 months each summer?



I'm just really having trouble wrapping my brain around this new information that so many premeds have never worked. It's like the day I was on another forum I frequent and found out that a substantial percentage of the population wipes their rears while standing up after using the toilet!

 

[LabMonster]

also a note that my parents are more than willing to pay for everything, but i have been working since 14. there's nothing wrong with teaching yourself about workplace politics...

Hehe. As an addendum - the reason this area is scrutinized is to figure out how you are to WORK WITH. Why? You could be a star in the classroom, but a complete @sshole on the wards - and who wants to work with a jerk? No one wants an ass on the wards in medical school, and they definitely don't want a jerk on house staff.

Basically, working shows initiative and elucidates your "workplace dynamic." That's why it's helpful.

 

[riceman04]

well sometimes cirumstances can prevent poeple from working, so its not all that suprising. For example, i cant work because of my visa (i am not allowed to work). im sure that others have valid reasons too.

That's the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard!

There are soooooooooo many international students here at Penn who hold down jobs.

It is ok not to have a job...but you gave a lame excuse (well at least based on what I see here at Penn)

 

[emttim]

That's the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard!

There are soooooooooo many international students here at Penn who hold down jobs.

It is ok not to have a job...but you gave a lame excuse (well at least based on what I see here at Penn)

Actually, at one time I had an Australian friend who wanted to go to school in the US, so I researched financial aid at a variety of schools for her....it's quite common from what I read to not be allowed to work if you're here from another country on a student visa. The college/university expects you to already have the funds in your bank account that is necessary for you to go to school there and support yourself for the duration of your stay.

 

[Oceaner]

That's the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard!

There are soooooooooo many international students here at Penn who hold down jobs.

It is ok not to have a job...but you gave a lame excuse (well at least based on what I see here at Penn)

Not during the summer if you have to go home elsewhere in the foreign country. You can't imagine the loopholes that foreign students have to go through to get work papers (outside campuses).

 

[UD912]

Hehe. As an addendum - the reason this area is scrutinized is to figure out how you are to WORK WITH. Why? You could be a star in the classroom, but a complete @sshole on the wards - and who wants to work with a jerk? No one wants an ass on the wards in medical school, and they definitely don't want a jerk on house staff.

Basically, working shows initiative and elucidates your "workplace dynamic." That's why it's helpful.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw this thread. I can't think of anything I've done that has taught me to work with people better than my work experience. Especially if you get a job in the customer service realm (anything from store clerk to waiting tables), you learn how to deal with the **** people can give you, both colleagues and customers (patients in the future). On top of that it teaches GREAT time management skills. Sure it might seem as "time wasted" to those premeds who have never worked, but I've always done better in school when I've had a job and and at the same time seem to be the least stressed out of all of my friends, who are mostly education or business majors.

 

[ChiDoc27]

I also find it kind of strange that some people have NEVER had a job, but it is understandable to me why they didn't hold down a job during college. I mean the amount of ECs that some people do would definitely equate to the hours put into a part-time job haha. Summer is a whole different story though, and I would think that unless the person is volunteering a crazy number of hours, he/she would get a job.

 

[Summer Sweet]

I also find it kind of strange that some people have NEVER had a job, but it is understandable to me why they didn't hold down a job during college. I mean the amount of ECs that some people do would definitely equate to the hours put into a part-time job haha. Summer is a whole different story though, and I would think that unless the person is volunteering a crazy number of hours, he/she would get a job.

I took classes during the summer as an undergrad, but usually they were only a couple academic ones and mostly art or sports.

When you think about it, job experience is especially helpful for people who aren't going to med school straight after undergrad. If you want to get a job after college in between med school, companies look more favorably upon people with some experience, even if it's just customer service. Or for people looking for research tech jobs, it would have been helpful to volunteer in a lab during college. So either way, whether you got to focus on studying and not worry about work during college, or whether you had to raise tuition by waiting tables on Friday nights, you should have gotten something out of it.

 

[Nasrudin]

I took classes during the summer as an undergrad, but usually they were only a couple academic ones and mostly art or sports.

When you think about it, job experience is especially helpful for people who aren't going to med school straight after undergrad. If you want to get a job after college in between med school, companies look more favorably upon people with some experience, even if it's just customer service. Or for people looking for research tech jobs, it would have been helpful to volunteer in a lab during college. So either way, whether you got to focus on studying and not worry about work during college, or whether you had to raise tuition by waiting tables on Friday nights, you should have gotten something out of it.

This is well phrased. I do agree...but what I am more skeptical about is what type of people are sitting there looking at our goods. Is it someone who wants to see all the panache and flare that goes with having time and money to burn or is it someone who may have had to come up the hard way.

My suspicion is that the numbers favor the former by a large margin.

 

[jon stewart]

That's the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard!

There are soooooooooo many international students here at Penn who hold down jobs.

It is ok not to have a job...but you gave a lame excuse (well at least based on what I see here at Penn)

well how do i say this....

you are the prefect example of the type of person who doesn't know much about a topic, and then will start making judgments about the comments of others first of all.

If you dont know much about international students in the US, then you are not entitled to judge what i say as bullsh%t.

my excuse is not lame. In the future i suggest that you don't make judgment calls like BS about what people say. You cant call what i say BS. Now if you know for certain 100% that what i said was bs, then you are okay to call me on it.

The visa i am on is H4, go and search it. Be a little more open minded and not so shallow like others. Learn that there are different types of visas that make someone an international student. F, J, H4.

From wiki

"H-4 visa holders are not allowed employment in US and are not eligible to get a Social Security Number and cannot be employed, but can hold a driver's license, open bank account(s) and get ITIN for IRS Tax purpose."

Those on student visas can work here, but they are also restricted too. Such as F, J.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-4_visa
http://www.visabureau.com/america/h4-dependent-visa.aspx
http://www.path2usa.com/immigration/visacategory/h4l2.htm

the least you can do is read up on it now. So next time someone says something, you dont go out on a limb and call BS.

remember too, that whats on the web is barely anything to what the real legalities are. There is much more in the fine print, that you wouldn't find on the web.

So if i were to say that its illegal for my to volunteer for a paid position. For example, consider those summer research internships that many people do Since i cant work you would think that i could volunteer, but it turns out thats its illegal for me volunteer for posisiton that is paid on my visa. Now thats not on the net anywhere, but talk to an intl student office or a immigration attorney to find out. Call that bs....?

 

[gujuDoc]

😱😱😱 That's sad . . . .

Yet true. Think about it, if disadvantaged and lower income people are considered minorities, that means the majority of the candidates are from well to do to really wealthy families. If people come from wealth, parents will often help them to pay their way through and if they have scholarships even better. So they will mostly focus on other things like the more typical ECs or hobbies. Is it sad? To some degree yes. However, it is reality.

I've had part time jobs here and there but I know a lot of premeds who've never worked a day in their life in any sort of job.

 

[gujuDoc]

That's the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard!

There are soooooooooo many international students here at Penn who hold down jobs.

It is ok not to have a job...but you gave a lame excuse (well at least based on what I see here at Penn)

I'm with the others in calling BS on your post. Even if they are allowed jobs it is only certain types of jobs. Primarily either they must work on campus only as int'l students at our school are allowed to work on USF campus if they are students here but they legally can't work outside the USF campus due to visa restrictions.

I knew of an Indian girl to whom this happened a few years ago.

If it is at Penn that they are working then maybe they are working on the campus itself and not off campus.

A lot of int'l students here would only be able to work outside the school via people willing to go and do underhanded things by giving them a job where their pay is in cash and there is no paper trail for tax purposes. Such a job wouldn't be legal.