Is it possible to make over $200K in FM?

[QueenJames]

Well you learn something new everyday don't ya?!

Thanks y'all!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[QueenJames]

Plus the farther you are out for residency the less likely you are to want to pick up extra shifts of any kind.

My first year out I was doing three to four Urgent Care shifts a month in addition to a full-time job. Now I work full days a week and the idea of doing anything more than that makes me cringe

I take it you were clearing more than 250K at that point?

Mind if I PM you doc???

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I take it you were clearing more than 250K at that point?

Mind if I PM you doc???

Sure.

But no, I wasn't making that much. My first job out was woefully underpaid. But I only worked 4 days per week, 30 minute follow ups and hour long new patients so it balanced out somewhat.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Are you an independent contractor? i.e no benefits (e.g., 401k, health insurance etc...)

Nope, full time urgent care with full benefits but I still do some locums on the side because I get restless and bored and like to travel. That added 70K to my pay this year.

 

[yunsenb]

Nope, full time urgent care with full benefits but I still do some locums on the side because I get restless and bored and like to travel. That added 70K to my pay this year.

For a new FM attending in the suburban NE ( an hour outside one of the major cities) who works clinic 4.5 days a week (~36 hr)- what is the compensation offer he should expect on average?
And what about if 50% of the time he's doing Sports clinic?

 

[Ericslv]

For a new FM attending in the suburban NE ( an hour outside one of the major cities) who works clinic 4.5 days a week (~36 hr)- what is the compensation offer he should expect on average?
And what about if 50% of the time he's doing Sports clinic?

Around 200K.

 

[Ericslv]

For a new FM attending in the suburban NE ( an hour outside one of the major cities) who works clinic 4.5 days a week (~36 hr)- what is the compensation offer he should expect on average?
And what about if 50% of the time he's doing Sports clinic?

On a side note if you are asking this question that means you need to speak to someone who deals with physician contract reviews on a regular basis. It will cost you around 500 bucks to learn how to negotiate a good contract.

 

[Twomonty17]

For a new FM attending in the suburban NE ( an hour outside one of the major cities) who works clinic 4.5 days a week (~36 hr)- what is the compensation offer he should expect on average?
And what about if 50% of the time he's doing Sports clinic?

Similarly what's it like for all of these things minus the sports clinic?

 

[galactus]

Similarly what's it like for all of these things minus the sports clinic?

At least 200k

As my program director always said, “If a FM doc is earning less than 200k, they are doing it wrong”

 

[Freezeout]

The deal I just signed is for $250,000 but it’s setup as a mix of family medicine and sports medicine. There’s also loan repayment.

 

[PlutoBoy]

I wouldn't work for anyone anywhere for less than $200,000.

 

[W19]

The deal I just signed is for $250,000 but it’s setup as a mix of family medicine and sports medicine. There’s also loan repayment.

Location...

 

[Freezeout]

Location...

East Texas.

 

[DokterMom]

East Texas.

Geographically east Texas? Or culturally?

 

[betamale]

I have a $450-500K contract.

ps
it's not clinic work

 

[Freezeout]

Geographically east Texas? Or culturally?

Geographically.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I was having dinner with my friend who's an FM resident in SoCal. He told me about some of the job offers he and his colleagues are receiving.

1. Stay as a faculty at his home program. 3.5 days of work. Very little call duties. 240k.

2. Kaiser in SoCal. 4 days of work. 240k + the dreamy kaiser benefits

3. Kaiser in NorthCal. 4 days of work. 280k + the dreamy kaiser benefits

These are the salaries in some of the most desirable regions of the country. FM has become the best "hidden" secret in medicine.

 

[Garrykane]

You need to do lots of work done if you would like to earn $200k within a year. Good luck!

 

[DoubleBogey]

I was having dinner with my friend who's an FM resident in SoCal. He told me about some of the job offers he and his colleagues are receiving.

1. Stay as a faculty at his home program. 3.5 days of work. Very little call duties. 240k.

2. Kaiser in SoCal. 4 days of work. 240k + the dreamy kaiser benefits

3. Kaiser in NorthCal. 4 days of work. 280k + the dreamy kaiser benefits

These are the salaries in some of the most desirable regions of the country. FM has become the best "hidden" secret in medicine.

Desirable and expensive

 

[Postictal Raiden]

You need to do lots of work done if you would like to earn $200k within a year. Good luck!

Lol, no you don’t.

 

[RTD]

FM has become the best "hidden" secret in medicine.

People say this about every non-surgical speciality. Its as if medicine is a well paying profession.

 

[DoubleBogey]

People say this about every non-surgical speciality. Its as if medicine is a well paying profession.

Pay as a physician vs non-physician pay, yes, FM does pay well given salary is >95% of all incomes. However, FM compared to other specialities, it is on the lower side. For me to pull over 300k requires a lot of hours vs the surgical/procedure-based specialities.

 

[W19]

Pay as a physician vs non-physician pay, yes, FM does pay well given salary is >95% of all incomes. However, FM compared to other specialities, it is on the lower side. For me to pull over 300k requires a lot of hours vs the surgical/procedure-based specialities.

Are you practicing in the northeast?

 

[RTD]

Pay as a physician vs non-physician pay, yes, FM does pay well given salary is >95% of all incomes. However, FM compared to other specialities, it is on the lower side. For me to pull over 300k requires a lot of hours vs the surgical/procedure-based specialities.

Based on the post I quoted, working 5 days a week would put you near or over 300k in California

 

[DoubleBogey]

Are you practicing in the northeast?

Yes

 

[W19]

Yes

That explains everything... The northeast is notorious for paying physicians breadcrumbs.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

People say this about every non-surgical speciality. Its as if medicine is a well paying profession.

Sure but let's look at this a little more objectively.

Medicine is a job. You can call it your passion, calling, hobby, etc... but at the end of the day it's a job.

What makes a job a good job?
IMO, 1) Job security 2) Pay per hour 3) Flexibility 4) Low risk

I can only think of few other medical specialties that meet everyone of the above requirements. Aside from FM, psych, neurology, general IM, and dermatology are the ones I can think of.

 

[DoubleBogey]

Based on the post I quoted, working 5 days a week would put you near or over 300k in California

Not seeing that on the east coast, maybe I’m already outdated with my job search (graduated residency 6/2017 - pretty recent) and don’t run across a lot offers like that unless in a undesirable location/very rural. Makes me think this is an outlier or a base (gets you hooked) that turns in to production which envitably is difficult to achieve.

I’m working outpt (starting new practice , so maybe not as busy as an est practice) with inpt and SNF/PCH added and will hit 300k first year out - but certainly isn’t 8-3 4d per wk. you need at least 7,500 RVU to GROSS 300k - which is a lot right out of the gait for a new physician learning the ropes.

 

[RTD]

Sure but let's look at this a little more objectively.

I can only think of few other medical specialties that meet everyone of the above requirements. Aside from FM, psych, neurology, general IM, and dermatology are the ones I can think of.

I have heard people say the same thing about Radiology/ Gas/ EM. Every time a thread like this shows up, someone is always saying how they are working 3 days per week and clearing 500k with no call.

 

[betamale]

I have heard people say the same thing about Radiology/ Gas/ EM. Every time a thread like this shows up, someone is always saying how they are working 3 days per week and clearing 500k with no call.

Lol, probably meant 24 hour shifts x 3 = 72 hrs x 150/hr and ya, sure you can make that in Anes, Rads. ER is variable and u can make 150-250/hr and work less hours

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Not seeing that on the east coast, maybe I’m already outdated with my job search (graduated residency 6/2017 - pretty recent) and don’t run across a lot offers like that unless in a undesirable location/very rural. Makes me think this is an outlier or a base (gets you hooked) that turns in to production which envitably is difficult to achieve.

I’m working outpt (starting new practice , so maybe not as busy as an est practice) with inpt and SNF/PCH added and will hit 300k first year out - but certainly isn’t 8-3 4d per wk. you need at least 7,500 RVU to GROSS 300k - which is a lot right out of the gait for a new physician learning the ropes.

Yeah the east coast is not as big on starting salary, but making that much is not exceptionally difficult 3 to 5 years out

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I have heard people say the same thing about Radiology/ Gas/ EM. Every time a thread like this shows up, someone is always saying how they are working 3 days per week and clearing 500k with no call.

Problem you are focusing only on the absolute dollar figure. You are not accounting for competitiveness/length of training (radiology), work stress (Gas and EM), inability to run your own business (all three), geographical inflexibility (gas and rads), being hospital based and have no leverage (all three), long work hours (gas and rads), and no downtime (rads).

 

[NRP]

What do you guys think about this doximity report? Doximity 2018 Physician Compensation Report

Also, what do you guys think about the differences in FM vs IM vs psych in terms of hours and pay? FM and IM seem similar enough.

 

[Ericslv]

I have a $450-500K contract.

ps
it's not clinic work

If you are going to post numbers you should give more details. Otherwise, good for you, but keep it to yourself.

 

[Ericslv]

Problem you are focusing only on the absolute dollar figure. You are not accounting for competitiveness/length of training (radiology), work stress (Gas and EM), inability to run your own business (all three), geographical inflexibility (gas and rads), being hospital based and have no leverage (all three), long work hours (gas and rads), and no downtime (rads).

I really feel bad for those rad, gas docs making 500 to one million per year because of their geographic inflexibility, inability to own their own business and the extra 2 to 3 years of training. I mean an extra 250K to 750K per year for their entire carrier after they had to be a resident for 3 more years is awful, I mean really awful. And not being able to take a risk and own a business and still make 500 to one million is just horrible. Oh, and being stuck in some crappy town with a low cost of living and saving all that money so they can retire 10 year sooner is just pathetic. Long hours??? making 500k to one million. You think you are the only one that has no leverage, long work weeks, and no downtime. LMFAO. Try primary care.

 

[betamale]

If you are going to post numbers you should give more details. Otherwise, good for you, but keep it to yourself.

lol, ok, ER 18 shifts/mo, 12 hr each, 3 sites, $160-225/hr + RVU

FPs are somewhat relegated to rural EDs but I was lucky to find work in the city and suburbs. I would, however, caution newly grad FPs just out of residency from doing ED work.

 

[W19]

lol, ok, ER 18 shifts/mo, 12 hr each, 3 sites, $160-225/hr + RVU

Good job!

 

[Bacchus]

Yeah the east coast is not as big on starting salary, but making that much is not exceptionally difficult 3 to 5 years out

Agree. Signed on at 190, went to a base of 215 after one year. 20k in retention/practice lead. Base this year will be round 228. Plus above plus bonuses. Should be looking at 260 at least. Modest wRVU commitment - 5300

 

[DoubleBogey]

Agree. Signed on at 190, went to a base of 215 after one year. 20k in retention/practice lead. Base this year will be round 228. Plus above plus bonuses. Should be looking at 260 at least. Modest wRVU commitment - 5300

What’s your $/RVU once you get into bonus territory?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Agree. Signed on at 190, went to a base of 215 after one year. 20k in retention/practice lead. Base this year will be round 228. Plus above plus bonuses. Should be looking at 260 at least. Modest wRVU commitment - 5300

Almost identical to my contract

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I really feel bad for those rad, gas docs making 500 to one million per year because of their geographic inflexibility, inability to own their own business and the extra 2 to 3 years of training. I mean an extra 250K to 750K per year for their entire carrier after they had to be a resident for 3 more years is awful, I mean really awful. And not being able to take a risk and own a business and still make 500 to one million is just horrible. Oh, and being stuck in some crappy town with a low cost of living and saving all that money so they can retire 10 year sooner is just pathetic. Long hours??? making 500k to one million. You think you are the only one that has no leverage, long work weeks, and no downtime. LMFAO. Try primary care.

Money isn't everything

 

[Ericslv]

Money isn't everything

No not everything. But it sure is a thing. One that makes a big difference if one knows how to apply it. I don't mean buying cars and huge homes. I mean proper investments to be able to have a better choice as one gets older. I know PCP's who are stuck in their jobs and are older but can't retire. I know rads and other specialists who got stuck in their jobs but didn't care because they were financially set and could walk away anytime.

 

[Ericslv]

lol, ok, ER 18 shifts/mo, 12 hr each, 3 sites, $160-225/hr + RVU

FPs are somewhat relegated to rural EDs but I was lucky to find work in the city and suburbs. I would, however, caution newly grad FPs just out of residency from doing ED work.

Ok good. So 216 hrs per month. Not exactly what I would call an amazing work life balance. But if I was out of residency with a large debt I would consider it until I have saved a large amount and payed off debt.

 

[betamale]

Ok good. So 216 hrs per month. Not exactly what I would call an amazing work life balance. But if I was out of residency with a large debt I would consider it until I have saved a large amount and payed off debt.

Lol,better than medical/surgical subspecialties with comparable pay rate and my malpractice is free and I have minimal overhead. Plus, I actually like my job so it's all good.

 

[DoubleBogey]

This has become a pissing contest

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No not everything. But it sure is a thing. One that makes a big difference if one knows how to apply it. I don't mean buying cars and huge homes. I mean proper investments to be able to have a better choice as one gets older. I know PCP's who are stuck in their jobs and are older but can't retire. I know rads and other specialists who got stuck in their jobs but didn't care because they were financially set and could walk away anytime.

As with everything, there are pros and cons.

We certainly don't make as much as most, but its certainly nothing to scoff at either. Most established FPs that I know are pulling in pretty close to 300k for at most M-F 8-5. A fair number of those only work 4 or 4.5 days/week at that.

As for being stuck at a job because they can't retire, hogwash. That just means didn't plan for retirement well - bought too much house, bought a vacation house they couldn't actually afford, stuff like that. I know quite a few PCPs that retired at 60 when their hospital started using an EMR and they are doing fine.

 

[Ericslv]

As with everything, there are pros and cons.

We certainly don't make as much as most, but its certainly nothing to scoff at either. Most established FPs that I know are pulling in pretty close to 300k for at most M-F 8-5. A fair number of those only work 4 or 4.5 days/week at that.

As for being stuck at a job because they can't retire, hogwash. That just means didn't plan for retirement well - bought too much house, bought a vacation house they couldn't actually afford, stuff like that. I know quite a few PCPs that retired at 60 when their hospital started using an EMR and they are doing fine.

I don't know many making 300K (I think you are in the south so it may be higher there than out west) but 250 is more common. If you are rural even a little then 300K is more realistic. No matter how much someone plans their lifestyle will be much better if they saved a big chunk of 700K vs. 300k. But I agree, it's nothing to scoff at either. I'm speaking in the context of MD vs. MD. Paying off student loans within a year or two etc.

 

[Bacchus]

What’s your $/RVU once you get into bonus territory?

35-45 dollars depending on quality metrics.

 

[cabinbuilder]

35-45 dollars depending on quality metrics.

My RVU is 54.70 per unit. I have to clear 296.12 per month. Currently I average 455 RVU per month. I easily make over 300K/year

So I work urgent care 10 shifts a month. I try to pick up 1-3 more extra.

 

[BigSib]

This has become a pissing contest

I'm sick of seeing this thread yet find myself contributing again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile