Is it possible to make over $200K in FM?

[Ericslv]

I'm not saying that sales is pathetic (although I was pretty pathetic when I was in sales back in the day), just that somebody who went though everything we go through to get a medical degree only to wind up in...sales...is kinda pathetic.

I hear what you are saying. But some people become doctors and then really hate it. They want to do something related and medical sales pays well and they can use the MD/DO to get into the door.

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[Ericslv]

But, you sell people one-on-one. Relationships matter. I just think that a washed-up MD/DO trying to sell me on a drug/device just comes off as pathetic. IMO, an MD/DO only matters if you're taking care of patients. Otherwise, it's just a couple of initials after your name.

I would hope they don't use the MD/DO title in their name once they are in sales. That would be strange.

 

[deleted87716]

I hear what you are saying. But some people become doctors and then really hate it. They want to do something related and medical sales pays well and they can use the MD/DO to get into the door.

And I don't disagree that it might work out in some cases (e.g., insurance deniers, etc.) That doesn't mean that it isn't (subjectively) pathetic.

 

[deleted87716]

I would hope they don't use the MD/DO title in their name once they are in sales. That would be strange.

I concur.

 

[Coltuna]

Too much passive aggressive winking going on in this thread... Giving me the creeps.

 

[Ericslv]

Too much passive aggressive winking going on in this thread... Giving me the creeps.

My point is people should do whatever they want (as long as it's legal and does not hurt others) and people should not judge them. There are many judgemental people on this forum.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My point is people should do whatever they want (as long as it's legal and does not hurt others) and people should not judge them. There are many judgemental people on this forum.

People are judgmental in all aspects of life, why would medicine be any different?

 

[Ericslv]

People are judgmental in all aspects of life, why would medicine be any different?

In my opinion people in medicine love to eat their own. Far more judgemental than others. But in general it would not be any different. But that wasn't the point. The point was people like to judge others and as I have stated in another post, I don't really care about what others think unless what they think turns into actions that can cause harm to me.

 

[MedicalSport]

Too much passive aggressive winking going on in this thread... Giving me the creeps.

The FM sub-forum has the most passive aggressive people compared to all the different sub-forums on this website...

 

[TableMD]

jeez quite the development with this thread....

Looking at my class, everyone is getting over 200k and living in nice places. You will likely get below 200k if insuper saturated places like NYC, however can get above that with urgent care. Whether COL is worth it is up to the individual.

I will be doing prinary care and sports in a nice, walkable metro with lots of ammenities and should be decently above that with production bonus when I start in a few months. Its a happy life for my friends and I but I dont consider a large % of what I do to be “work” wherase every day in ED or inpatient I would check the clock, to each their own. My ED friends probably would say the same about my job. Choose wisely

 

[W19]

jeez quite the development with this thread....

Looking at my class, everyone is getting over 200k and living in nice places. You will likely get below 200k if insuper saturated places like NYC, however can get above that with urgent care. Whether COL is worth it is up to the individual.

I will be doing prinary care and sports in a nice, walkable metro with lots of ammenities and should be decently above that with production bonus when I start in a few months. Its a happy life for my friends and I but I dont consider a large % of what I do to be “work” wherase every day in ED or inpatient I would check the clock, to each their own. My ED friends probably would say the same about my job. Choose wisely

I agree that EM docs work for every single penny they make. 350k is nice but these docs work their behind off for that money...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I agree that EM docs work for every single penny they make. 350k is nice but these docs work their behind off for that money...

Exactly.

It's like I say every few months in allo, we work Bankers hours, no nights, weekends or holidays, and are going to make no less than 200k in most places.

 

[W19]

Exactly.

It's like I say every few months in allo, we work Bankers hours, no nights, weekends or holidays, and are going to make no less than 200k in most places.

I will take a 8-5 job M-F for 250k over doing EM work/hours for 350k... Though I would prefer to make 300k as a future IM doc. I did my EM rotation last month and my eyes were on the clock for all the hours I was there.

 

[betamale]

I will take a 8-5 job M-F for 250k over doing EM work/hours for 350k... Though I would prefer to make 300k as a future IM doc. I did my EM rotation last month and my eyes were on the clock for all the hours I was there.

lol, u say that now until you get the 12th octogenarian on your clinic as a PCP or admission as a hospitalist... been there and that...i was in IM before i went to fm then to em. that 200k only goes so far after taxes

ps
this is not meant to be disparaging at all to anyone who choose to make $200k. wish we can make ER pay in clinic as the cost of living can be high depending on where one lives.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I will take a 8-5 job M-F for 250k over doing EM work/hours for 350k... Though I would prefer to make 300k as a future IM doc. I did my EM rotation last month and my eyes were on the clock for all the hours I was there.

My wife is IM and since we finished residency we have made within 5k of each other every year...

 

[W19]

lol, u say that now until you get the 12th octogenarian on your clinic as a PCP or admission as a hospitalist... been there and that...i was in IM before i went to fm then to em. that 200k only goes so far after taxes

ps
this is not meant to be disparaging at all to anyone who choose to make $200k. wish we can make ER pay in clinic as the cost of living can be high depending on where one lives.

I guess everyone has a selective level of tolerance... I don't mind outpatient medicine at all since one can 'choose' your patients to some extent... EM docs have to deal with the worst patients.

As for hospitalist medicine, don't really know how bad it is.

As a nontrad with almost 300k student loan, I know 2o0k/year don't go as far as some premeds might think, but I can live with that. But I would prefer to make ~300k.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I guess everyone has a selective level of tolerance... I don't mind outpatient medicine at all since one can 'choose' your patients to some extent... EM docs have to deal with the worst patients.

As for hospitalist medicine, don't really know how bad it is.

As a nontrad with almost 300k student loan, I know 2o0k/year don't go as far as some premeds might be think, but I can live with that. But I would prefer to make ~300k.

Find a place with good loan repayment. I had classmates with that same debt (or more) find jobs with very generous repayment packages - we're talking 100k for a 3-5 year commitment depending on location.

Also for God's sake refinance the day you leave residency. Got my wife's interest rate down from 6.5 to 3.25. Paying less for a shorter term...

 

[W19]

Find a place with good loan repayment. I had classmates with that same debt (or more) find jobs with very generous repayment packages - we're talking 100k for a 3-5 year commitment depending on location.

Also for God's sake refinance the day you leave residency. Got my wife's interest rate down from 6.5 to 3.25. Paying less for a shorter term...

How much her payment come down to?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

How much her payment come down to?

It was 6 years left at 2250, now it's 5 years at 2000.

So one less year and saving 3k/year on payments.

 

[PlutoBoy]

lol, u say that now until you get the 12th octogenarian on your clinic as a PCP or admission as a hospitalist... been there and that...i was in IM before i went to fm then to em. that 200k only goes so far after taxes

ps
this is not meant to be disparaging at all to anyone who choose to make $200k. wish we can make ER pay in clinic as the cost of living can be high depending on where one lives.

What’s wrong with an octogenarian? It doesn’t bother me.

“It looks like your blood pressure is a little high. Take amlodipine once a day and I’ll see you in a month.”

“Your knee hurts? You know, it’s probably old age arthritis. I wish I could make you forty but I can’t (insert laugh and pause for them to laugh/tell you a story). Here’s a prescription for Voltaren gel. See you in a month.”

“Yes, sir. You should get the flu shot.”

What’s wrong with that? It is way harder to work with entitled twenty year olds with nonspecific complaints.

 

[deleted87716]

It is way harder to work with entitled twenty year olds with nonspecific complaints.

 

[PlutoBoy]

I guess everyone has a selective level of tolerance... I don't mind outpatient medicine at all since one can 'choose' your patients to some extent... EM docs have to deal with the worst patients.

As for hospitalist medicine, don't really know how bad it is.

As a nontrad with almost 300k student loan, I know 2o0k/year don't go as far as some premeds might be think, but I can live with that. But I would prefer to make ~300k.

I think that $200,000 is plenty. That’s not a trivial amount of money. We are biased because most (?) of our friends are also other wealthy physicians.

There are not that many families making that much money.

I’m making less as a PCP than I did as a hospitalist. You know what I got in exchange? Peace of mind. I get to have lunch with my wife and my baby daughter everyday. Today we actually met at a restaurant for lunch. I get to come home early and have plenty of time to meet my friends and family, go out, live my life.

In 30 minutes I’m taking my wife for a date night to a local bar/lounge. We may rent a room. We’ll see what happens

I work to live and not the other way around. After $150,000, my time is much more valuable than money.

 

[W19]

It was 6 years left at 2250, now it's 5 years at 2000.

So one less year and saving 3k/year on payments.

I am crying looking at my 1st payment (>3.5k) that is due in 8 months

 

[Coltuna]

Find a place with good loan repayment. I had classmates with that same debt (or more) find jobs with very generous repayment packages - we're talking 100k for a 3-5 year commitment depending on location.

Also for God's sake refinance the day you leave residency. Got my wife's interest rate down from 6.5 to 3.25. Paying less for a shorter term...

Are these people typically taking a cut elsewhere? Salary? Benefits?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Are these people typically taking a cut elsewhere? Salary? Benefits?

Not generally

 

[Coltuna]

Not generally

The more I read, the more I'm convinced that FM is the best kept secret in medicine.

 

[deleted87716]

The more I read, the more I'm convinced that FM is the best kept secret in medicine.

It’s the ultimate lifestyle specialty.

 

[Sardonix]

It’s the ultimate lifestyle specialty.

It honestly bamboozles me. Just today I was talking with a friend who had been EM-or-die until a week ago, when he started reading into residencies back home and lifestyle comparisons. Now he's increasingly into FM.

On the other hand, I've had multiple people online tell me that I'll be poor and today's FM docs only make $130,000 a year etc. It's as if people just chose to believe FM is a death sentence for doctors.

 

[Bacchus]

See my comments by expanding the quote.

What’s wrong with an octogenarian? It doesn’t bother me.

“It looks like your blood pressure is a little high. Take amlodipine once a day and I’ll see you in a month.”

-My legs are swollen. I got so dizzy from your medicine I fell and broke my hip because I didn’t want Prolia.

“Your knee hurts? You know, it’s probably old age arthritis. I wish I could make you forty but I can’t (insert laugh and pause for them to laugh/tell you a story). Here’s a prescription for Voltaren gel. See you in a month.”

-Doctor, as your dedicated prior auth nurse, I can’t get the voltaren gel covered...and neither can I.
-Doctor, you aren’t doing anything for my pain!

“Yes, sir. You should get the flu shot.”

-Nah, that’s poison... 3 mo later, you have the flu... gonna get the vaccine next year? No, It’s a conspiratory.

What’s wrong with that? It is way harder to work with entitled twenty year olds with nonspecific complaints.

 

[MedicalSport]

It’s the ultimate lifestyle specialty.

I thought derm was with better hours than FM and more $$$. At least please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm seriously considering either derm or FM. I am having hard time deciding. (Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, I'll consider making a new one)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I thought derm was with better hours than FM and more $$$. At least please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm seriously considering either derm or FM. I am having hard time deciding. (Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, I'll consider making a new one)

Hours are generally about the same.

Derm makes more money by both seeing more patients and doing more procedures. If I saw 40 patients a day and removed a lesion from 1/3rd of them, I'd be making derm money as well.

 

[deleted87716]

Hours are generally about the same.

Derm makes more money by both seeing more patients and doing more procedures. If I saw 40 patients a day and removed a lesion from 1/3rd of them, I'd be making derm money as well.

Yep. And dermatologists who are heavily into cosmetics can make even more.

 

[PlutoBoy]

See my comments by expanding the quote.

That’s funny. However, I choose to see the glass half full. Side effects and complications occur in every specialty. Everyone has to deal with prior authorizations unless they are in EM.

You get a lot of thankful patients too:

“So you have a rash and you have been putting on hydrocortisone cream for weeks and it won’t go away? It’s tinea versicolor. Stop that cream and take this.” A few days later: “Thanks, doc! That resolved quickly!”

“So you hit your elbow, it got swollen, you went to urgent care and took medicine but it just won’t budge? You have bursitis. We can put a needle in there and get the fluid out.” “Hey, doc! I can feel my elbow now!”

“So you feel like crap. I’m sorry to inform you that you have very uncontrolled diabetes. Use these shots and I’ll see you in a week.” “Doc, I feel so much better and my sugar is coming down. It’s amazing!”

“You have vaginal discharge that won’t go away despite using monistat. Let me take a look. You have bacterial vaginosis. Take this and let me know how it goes.” “Doc, I’m cured!”

“Doctor, my partner and I want to open up our relationship but we want to do it safely. What can we do to prevent HIV and other bad stuff? Take Truvada and we have to give you a few shots. Use condoms. I’ll see you in three months.” “Thanks for being understanding, doctor!”

“Doctor, I feel so depressed. I’m on the verge of collapse. I’m crying all the time.” “Take this medicine. Here’s my phone number. Call me if you need anything. I want to see you in two weeks to make sure you are better.” “Thank you for listening to me. I felt like I took so much of your time but that’s what I needed. Medicine is working perfectly. Thank you, doctor!”

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yep. And dermatologists who are heavily into cosmetics can make even more.

I'm still undecided what I think about dermatologist that do a large amount of cosmetic work.

On the one hand, I'm always a big fan of doctors being able to do whatever they want to do.

On the other, I get pissed off at it taking 6months to get a patient a dermatology appointment.

 

[Ericslv]

The FM sub-forum has the most passive aggressive people compared to all the different sub-forums on this website...

When you state you mind directly they tend to threaten or out right ban you from the site. That is the ultimate passive aggressive behavior.

 

[DrMeowMeow]

Do employed positions ever allow you to negotiate how much you get paid per RVU after the initial guaranteed salary ends?

 

[SandyH]

Would choosing family medicine as a career be more profitable and wise if you have no loans?

 

[deleted480308]

Would choosing family medicine as a career be more profitable and wise if you have no loans?

No loans makes literally all things more profitable and wise

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No loans makes literally all things more profitable and wise

Yep. It does make the decision process easier because it's one less thing to factor in though.

I ended up with no loans and so didn't have to worry about FMs lower end income.

 

[SandyH]

Yep. It does make the decision process easier because it's one less thing to factor in though.

I ended up with no loans and so didn't have to worry about FMs lower end income.

What did you spend your first paycheck on?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What did you spend your first paycheck on?

Week at the beach

 

[Ericslv]

I think that $200,000 is plenty. That’s not a trivial amount of money. We are biased because most (?) of our friends are also other wealthy physicians.

There are not that many families making that much money.

I’m making less as a PCP than I did as a hospitalist. You know what I got in exchange? Peace of mind. I get to have lunch with my wife and my baby daughter everyday. Today we actually met at a restaurant for lunch. I get to come home early and have plenty of time to meet my friends and family, go out, live my life.

In 30 minutes I’m taking my wife for a date night to a local bar/lounge. We may rent a room. We’ll see what happens

I work to live and not the other way around. After $150,000, my time is much more valuable than money.

If you are out of debt, 200K is a good sum of money. Especially if you live in an area with lower taxes.

 

[SandyH]

What if you have no loans, but want to live in a big city area, is family med still worth it?

 

[deleted480308]

What if you have no loans, but want to live in a big city area, is family med still worth it?

Holy crap.....

If it’s what you want to do, it’s worth it

 

[Ericslv]

If you are out of debt, 200K is a good sum of money. Especially if you live in an area with lower taxes.

From a financial/retirement perspective, 200K after taxes is around lets say140K. Once your students loans are paid off and mortgage is paid off etc. (big expenses), then you can most likely live well on about 90 to 100K net. So

What if you have no loans, but want to live in a big city area, is family med still worth it?

Worth it in what way? The more expensive an area, the less you can save. Only you can determine worth for yourself. If what you mean by worth is can I put a bunch of money away and still live well in a big city? Then the answer is most likely no. Ask yourself this question? Do you have the board scores and the connections to get into something that pays more? Are you willing to do the years of residency even if you did? Can you see yourself making less money than practically every other specialty for the rest of your carrier?

 

[scharnhorst]

sometimes I feel doctors in general are suckered into a much more expensive lifestyle than what they need
this is nice for a few years but later on becomes more of a burden than anything else
being rich is having the ability to choose what you want in life and how much you want to work, even if you make 350k but constantly have to work to support a certain lifestyle thats a miserable existence IMHO
I get some exepnses are unavoidable but a lot of them are not and they pile up when we are trying to keep up with the jones

 

[Redpancreas]

Yes. Obtain OB privileges, establish a niche in procedures, live in a less populated area (not North Dakota or Wyoming, but like a small suburban area), and have a good business acumen and I would imagine you'd be looking at 300K+. Also, take advantage of the short residency and start saving.

 

[QueenJames]

sometimes I feel doctors in general are suckered into a much more expensive lifestyle than what they need
this is nice for a few years but later on becomes more of a burden than anything else
being rich is having the ability to choose what you want in life and how much you want to work, even if you make 350k but constantly have to work to support a certain lifestyle thats a miserable existence IMHO
I get some exepnses are unavoidable but a lot of them are not and they pile up when we are trying to keep up with the jones

In my area it's the dumb doctor housewives who are behind this.

Sally is married to Dale, an internist. Their family friend Bob, a surgeon, bought a golf course house worth 1.5 million and his wife, Alexis, just has to bring it up everytime she meets Sally at their monthly kitty party/girl's club/stupid crap that housewives who have nothing better to do...

Sally now looks at the house that Dale and her live in... a great home they purchased with 4,000 square feet that is paid off... and begins picking at things that she feels she needs... and letting her insecurity get to her... talks to Dale about moving... and Dale being a "loving" husband.. does what he is talked into.

Dale and Sally now begin looking at homes so that Sally can go ahead and counter Alexis' brags with her own "Oh well Dale and I also just moved into a home.. yeahh... we only paid somewhere north of 1.6 million... " and yadda yadda yadda...

Poor Dale is now kicking his own butt picking up extra call to afford the mortgage his dumb wife talked him into.

Bottom line is that when you try to compete with people for stupid crap that doesn't mean jack... you will lose.

I'd rather live in a 3500 sq. foot home in a good school district and have time to golf on the weekends rather than live in some stupid mansion I have to work to keep lol

Suckers.

 

[W19]

I'd rather live in a 3500 sq. foot home in a good school district and have time to golf on the weekends rather than live in some stupid mansion I have to work to keep lol

In my area it's the dumb doctor housewives who are behind this.

Sally is married to Dale, an internist. Their family friend Bob, a surgeon, bought a golf course house worth 1.5 million and his wife, Alexis, just has to bring it up everytime she meets Sally at their monthly kitty party/girl's club/stupid crap that housewives who have nothing better to do...

Sally now looks at the house that Dale and her live in... a great home they purchased with 4,000 square feet that is paid off... and begins picking at things that she feels she needs... and letting her insecurity get to her... talks to Dale about moving... and Dale being a "loving" husband.. does what he is talked into.

Dale and Sally now begin looking at homes so that Sally can go ahead and counter Alexis' brags with her own "Oh well Dale and I also just moved into a home.. yeahh... we only paid somewhere north of 1.6 million... " and yadda yadda yadda...

Poor Dale is now kicking his own butt picking up extra call to afford the mortgage his dumb wife talked him into.

Bottom line is that when you try to compete with people for stupid crap that doesn't mean jack... you will lose.


Suckers.

Well, that sounds very modest.

 

[DrGainzzz]

I'd rather live in a 3500 sq. foot home in a good school district and have time to golf on the weekends rather than live in some stupid mansion I have to work to keep lol

Suckers.

Preach!