Is it time to unify both degree names, yet?

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Is it time to unify both degree names, yet?

  • Yes, we need to have one name altogether.

    Votes: 98 44.1%
  • No, we're just fine in our own caves alone.

    Votes: 124 55.9%

  • Total voters
    222
Because that's how SDN works. If you haven't completed something you have absolutely no knowledge of it. Everything on medicine is a huge secret and they are only revealed to you if you are directly involved.

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This is a good observation. I think it's correct... Nobody would reveal a peep. It's just you to learn it in person provided you've already been in the process, and at only when the time's come. Exciting, in a weird sense, though.
 
Because that's how SDN works. If you haven't completed something you have absolutely no knowledge of it. Everything on medicine is a huge secret and they are only revealed to you if you are directly involved.

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To be fair, it isnt until a person says something ignorant on a subject who ALSO doesn't have said degree that we tend to harp on them. However, yes, there is quite a bit of assuming based on trends that goes on 😀
 
Crap... only got through the first page before I hit quote instead of multi.... and I can't be bothered to fix it 😀
It will never happen. The administrators at the AOA will burn the institution to the ground before they destroy their pointless, overpaid jobs.
This is a true statement

They already merged their GME accreditation with the ACGME.
The ACGME acquired their GME. They didn't merge. I know it is nitpicky, but as law mentioned earlier, we are not talking about equals here. The AOA became (will become) a seated member of the ACGME, in the same capacity that the AMA and AHA are members. This wasn't a "hey let's do this together" sort of thing. The term subsidiary is more appropriate than partner.
yes they should be merged. Giving DO physicians a different degree when they study exactly the same content as MD students is ridiculous.
I disagree with you. NDs claim to study the same things as well. Just as DO schools are not accredited by the same people as MD schools, neither are NDs. Should NDs be able to call themselves MD or DO on a whim just because they claim equal studying? Now, I do believe that DOs study the same material and to largely the same degree. However, you are looking from the outside inward. DO is a separate entity. It doesn't matter what they teach or how they teach it in relation to MD. It is a separate tract that is overseen by a separate entity. It isn't ok to simply establish your own group, claim equivalency, and then steal the title. Parallels could be drawn up to patent infringement. Whether the final "product" is inferior, superior, or equal isnt the point. It isnt the same because it isnt begotten in the same way. If DOs want to be MDs they need to go through the same pathways, and this will mean turning over school accreditation power. At this point, refer to vitios's post.


I see where your head is at. So everyone gets the MD, but the school can tailor its mission statement towards osteopathic medicine. Yes?

I honestly think this is a good idea and should be the norm. Regardless of the roots of osteopathy, it currently stands as an alternative route into medicine and is very often a second chance sort of deal. Unified accreditation is important, IMO, and will improve patient care in the long run. It isnt that osteopathic accreditation is sub-par by any means, it is just that having many redundant bodies attempting to do the same thing is inefficient. MD vs DO is almost becoming the Mac vs PC debate (of which PC is clearly superior, btw 😀 ) but the two are becoming largely indistinguishable except one group refuses to lose the gimmicks and the other group is finding itself more and more forced to employ gimmicks to appease an ignorant client base (talking about the computers, regardless of how that may have been received :meanie: )


historical differences are irrelevant, at the time of conception of the DO path they were both quacks.

That may be true. But this does not represent a valid argument in favor of uniting the degrees. It does not make sense for group 1 to award its degree to group 2 without also overseeing the education of group 2.
 
Well, DO schools do have a different philosophy than their MD counterparts when it comes to admission of their students.

I understand DO was never meant as a back up but it definitely gave people who were never considered for MD a shot. They did look at the whole application and instead of it being a numbers game (which almost every MD school is), they gave many a chance to practice medicine through hard work. A merger would mean adopting AMCAs and basically shunning these people. Grade replacement would be gone and most of these schools will just end up being a numbers game since they now will want to be ranked highly. You should compare the average stats now for DO and MD. It isn't quite the back up it used to be since a lot of students are learning about DO schools and MD schools tend to reject a lot of outstanding applicants.

The students who enter MD and DO schools are different, with DO being open to accepting non-trads and those who might've had a screw up or two and owned up to it. Just something to consider.
This kinda thing pisses me off. You don't really seem to know much about either admissions process.

Plenty of non trads get into MD schools. We have a handfull over 40, and many many over 30 in my class.

MD schools look at the whole applicant. In fact, because MD applicant pools are often so tight they are forced to look at the whole applicant. The averages for MD schools across the nation are all very similar with a few outliers here and there. In contrast, DO schools have a much more widely variable set of averages. Just as you conclude that this means they are less numbers oriented, this leads me to conclude that they are scrambling harder to get numbers out of a pool with lower stats (not really, but just to play devil's advocate)

Don't kid yourself, DO is just as much of a numbers game as MD. DO schools just have a pool of applicants with lower numbers.

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Agreed.

Different players; different numbers; same "game".
Thank you both. *tear*

You have been around long enough to know the accepted term is osteopathic medicine, not osteopathy.
I use it as shorthand. I was not aware that it was an offensive term..... 😕

I disagree, then why have grade replacement? That alone trumps the numbers game since a 3.8 between a DO school and MD school application isn't the same. When I say numbers game I mean that they won't look at a bad year/semester whatever against you (because once again, grade replacement) Also some DO schools can only regard the good MCAT score. while an MD score will view all scores you've taken (i.e., 32 after third MCAT). So maybe DO is a selective numbers game? Idk and idc honestly.

I won't be surprised if the averages between the 2 approach each other closely, but even if DO and MD had the same "averages", grade replacement negates that.

As for DrBumbleBee, I agree with having just a universal MD degree (I think separate degrees are silly) and I hope if it happens that things like grade replacement and accepting non-trads continue.
Disagree here. If the numbers didn't matter to them they wouldn't have mechanisms in place to inflate GPAs. That is what grade replacement does. I suspect grade replacement was their answer to criticisms about having lower stats. Twist some numbers and suddenly they aren't so much lower anymore :shrug: but at any rate saying grade replacement means they don't care about numbers is simply wrong.

This is true. However, in the end, the MD schools are more GPA selective than DO schools by a slight amount.

This is probably the best I can do

Osteopathic schools

Applicant data

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2011-Applicants.pdf

look at page 5

Matriculant data

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2011Matriculantsummary.pdf

look at page 5

Allopathic schools

Applicant and Matriculant data

https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/2012factstable18.pdf


Summary

Osteopathic schools

Applicant GPA (overall) - 3.43 (all GPAs included)
Matriculant GPA (overall) - 3.50 (all GPAs included)

Allopathic schools

Applicant GPA (overall) - 3.54
Matriculant GPA (overall) - 3.68

Osteopathic difference- 0.07
Allopathic difference- 0.14

Allopathic to Osteopathic ratio - 0.14/0.07 = 2 / 1

The allopathic schools are somewhat more selective.

I don't think you can conclude this. There are several factors you aren't considering. 1) a large number of lower stat applicants will increase that gap. MD schools have vastly more applicants each year. Also, a significant number of DO students also applied to MD schools. There are shared applicants in these pools. Just having a wider gap here in no way means that they "care more" about GPA.

Same thing with the non-trad argument that gets made. If it was true that non-trads simply have a harder time getting in, but otherwise are equal performers to applicants to MD schools, then the stats gap between MD and DO would be smaller. You could assume that non-trads have lower scores because they have been out of the game awhile, but the idea that MD schools are biased against non-trads simply for being non-trad is false and is not supported by the numbers. It is important to have a working understanding of what altering the pools would do to the averages. It is not sufficient to state a difference and then set about drawing whatever conclusion you would like from it. That is what the chiropractors do in their research 😛 Don't be like that.
 

I was just thinking to myself yesterday "I wonder if specter died". Had I not already noticed you've been off SDN for a while, I would've noticed by the massive wall of multi-quote. 👍
 
I was just thinking to myself yesterday "I wonder if specter died". Had I not already noticed you've been off SDN for a while, I would've noticed by the massive wall of multi-quote. 👍

I tend to post more when I study by the computer. On break so..... 😀

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I tend to post more when I study by the computer. On break so..... 😀

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I was the same during MCAT prep (studying on laptop vs studying books). It could be a sign that I should study on a tablet and refuse to buy a keyboard for it once med school starts.
 
I was the same during MCAT prep (studying on laptop vs studying books). It could be a sign that I should study on a tablet and refuse to buy a keyboard for it once med school starts.

Doesn't make a difference. Lol

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Physical Keyboards on tablets make no sense to me. I'm downsizing the iPad to the mini version (with LTE), to carry around in my white coat 😛
 
I was just thinking to myself yesterday "I wonder if specter died". Had I not already noticed you've been off SDN for a while, I would've noticed by the massive wall of multi-quote. 👍

I tend to post more when I study by the computer. On break so..... 😀

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The Specter-MedPR duo has returned! :corny:
 
The Specter-MedPR duo has returned! :corny:

Strangely I've been accused of being in a duo with you as well. Unfortunately people seem to miss the fact that I will agree with or call out anyone regardless of past agreements or conflicts.

To be honest, I'm only vaguely aware of who posts what until someone references back to a previous altercation. Otherwise I'm responding to what I read as if I've never seen that poster before.

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Strangely I've been accused of being in a duo with you as well. Unfortunately people seem to miss the fact that I will agree with or call out anyone regardless of past agreements or conflicts.

To be honest, I'm only vaguely aware of who posts what until someone references back to a previous altercation. Otherwise I'm responding to what I read as if I've never seen that poster before.

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I'm the Med-PR duo. Nerds.

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Strangely I've been accused of being in a duo with you as well. Unfortunately people seem to miss the fact that I will agree with or call out anyone regardless of past agreements or conflicts.

It's on! What you say is completely wrong! MD, DO and ND should be merged, and the idea of having different titles is incorrect. Your argument is flawed.
 
It's on! What you say is completely wrong! MD, DO and ND should be merged, and the idea of having different titles is incorrect. Your argument is flawed.

:corny:

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It's on! What you say is completely wrong! MD, DO and ND should be merged, and the idea of having different titles is incorrect. Your argument is flawed.

Here is a toast *raises glass*



*like you didnt have one*

To agent and Med. The best annoying/entertaining ratio in a premed this site has produced to date!




:corny:

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P.s. the toast went above your quote because that is where my phone put me. Bitch to Motorola, not me. Ok. Deal.


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