Is it too late to start shadowing in college?

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PaceMaker120

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Serious question. It seems to be that everybody and their mother has been shadowing and studying for the MCATs since high school at my college. It makes me wonder if I've just begun too late. I'm a first semester freshman applying to FlexMed 2019 @ ISMMS next year if that helps.
 
Serious question. It seems to be that everybody and their mother has been shadowing and studying for the MCATs since high school at my college. It makes me wonder if I've just begun too late. I'm a first semester freshman applying to FlexMed 2019 @ ISMMS next year if that helps.
Shadowing is one activity that can be done in a short period of time. Longevity is not necessary. In fact, long-ago shadowing as a HS student is less relevant than that done recently, given that one has more mature reflections to make on the experience as a college student.
 
No, most people I know (I went to a heavily premed UG) started shadowing in college. A few had shadowing in HS but they got more in college.
You don't need a lot of shadowing hours, it really seems silly to overdo it.
 
No, most people I know (I went to a heavily premed UG) started shadowing in college. A few had shadowing in HS but they got more in college.
You don't need a lot of shadowing hours, it really seems silly to overdo it.
To be a competitive applicant for medical school, how many hours of shadowing are recommended?

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To be a competitive applicant for medical school, how many hours of shadowing are recommended?
The minimum stated on med school websites is 40 hours. The average listed is about 50 hours. Some apply with hundreds of hours. IMO, after 70 hours or so, that time would have been better spent volunteering in a clinical environment where patient interaction is allowed.
 
The minimum stated on med school websites is 40 hours. The average listed is about 50 hours. Some apply with hundreds of hours. IMO, after 70 hours or so, that time would have been better spent volunteering in a clinical environment where patient interaction is allowed.
Thank you!

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To be a competitive applicant for medical school, how many hours of shadowing are recommended?

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I know people in my class who never shadowed and others who did a lot. The best is to get an ER volunteering thing and parlay that into informal and/or formal shadowing that you can list on your app.
 
I know people in my class who never shadowed and others who did a lot. The best is to get an ER volunteering thing and parlay that into informal and/or formal shadowing that you can list on your app.

The difference between what a volunteer sees vs a shadower is astronomical, speaking from personal experience. Just ask physicians in the ER to shadow.
 
The minimum stated on med school websites is 40 hours. The average listed is about 50 hours. Some apply with hundreds of hours. IMO, after 70 hours or so, that time would have been better spent volunteering in a clinical environment where patient interaction is allowed.

Strongly agree. If you want a physician letter writer, it's best to get close to 100 hours under one physician. But you also want to shadow in other departments, even briefly to see if medicine in general is right for you. Once you have that, any further shadowing is pointless because you'll experience it in rotation. Regardless of any field, I can think of one or two responsibilities all physicians share. If you like that, you know medicine is for you.
 
The difference between what a volunteer sees vs a shadower is astronomical, speaking from personal experience. Just ask physicians in the ER to shadow.
That’s what I did. But I ended up with tons of shadowing experience just by being a proactive volunteer in a busy city ED—helping with paracentesis, assisting shoulder reductions, etc. Never even had to ask to shadow for that...opportunities just arose for me. I also did a full day of clinic shadowing with an orthopedic surgeon, which was invaluable. It is impossible to appreciate what it’s like to see 70 clinic patients in a day until you tag along.
 
If you want a physician letter writer, it's best to get close to 100 hours under one physician.

Uh wut? For starters, physician letters hold essentially zero weight in the MD world (required for a lot of DO schools though), and 100 hours? I got great letters from 2 physicians (DO apps) with far less than that. I would argue if you have 100 hours of total shadowing you over did it. That time is worth a lot more spend somewhere else.
 
Hey, so long as you can write about how every hour spent in a hospital changed your life, it's worthwhile for your app.

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Hey, so long as you can write about how every hour spent in a hospital changed your life, it's worthwhile for your app.

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No. If someone sent me an app that talked about how every hour spent in a hospital changed their life I would instantly reject them for lying. There is nothing life changing about watching a physician put orders in the EMR
 
What's your take on longevity for non-clinical community service? Is ~4 hours a week for ~8 months sufficient for it to be neither an advantage nor a disadvantage, or is that a pretty significant disadvantage?

My adviser never mentioned that requirement, just learned about it this summer from SDN after applying. So all I did previously was occasionally give out home made meals to homeless folks down town with my wife for certain holidays. I'm starting volunteering at a food bank next week.

At that rate, I should accumulate about 125 official hours by next cycle.

Would it make a significant difference if I did 8 hours a week, getting to ~250 (but with the same subpar ~8 month longevity)?


Shadowing is one activity that can be done in a short period of time. Longevity is not necessary. In fact, long-ago shadowing as a HS student is less relevant than that done recently, given that one has more mature reflections to make on the experience as a college student.
 
Uh wut? For starters, physician letters hold essentially zero weight in the MD world (required for a lot of DO schools though), and 100 hours? I got great letters from 2 physicians (DO apps) with far less than that. I would argue if you have 100 hours of total shadowing you over did it. That time is worth a lot more spend somewhere else.

You're probably right. I lost track of my hours when I shadowed cause I enjoyed the experience.
 
1) What's your take on longevity for non-clinical community service? Is ~4 hours a week for ~8 months sufficient for it to be neither an advantage nor a disadvantage, or is that a pretty significant disadvantage?

My adviser never mentioned that requirement, just learned about it this summer from SDN after applying. So all I did previously was occasionally give out home made meals to homeless folks down town with my wife for certain holidays. I'm starting volunteering at a food bank next week.

At that rate, I should accumulate about 125 official hours by next cycle.

2) Would it make a significant difference if I did 8 hours a week, getting to ~250 (but with the same subpar ~8 month longevity)?
1) Is last-minute, non-clinical community service a disadvantage? Not always. It depends on the school (as some will be satisfied with strong medical volunteerism alone. Or none.). It depends on whether you are outstanding in some other area of endeavor. It depends on other factors in your application as to whether it's a negative: Did you work 40 hours a week all through college? Are you ex-military or ex-Peace Corps? Were you the sole caretaker for 3 younger sibs? In other words, there can be moderating factors to how this delayed service is interpreted.

OTOH, were you a typical college student working 10 hours or less a week? In that case, at many schools, you'd be disadvantaged having low to no nonmedical community service hours or a last-minute effort to correct the deficiency.

2) No.
 
I personally know people who have. It seems way overkill, but people do it. Can't help but wonder if you should be, too. Pre-med Syndrome at its finest.

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Yeah but it's one thing to be super neurotic in a way that could help you (ie shadow in high school, get in touch with professors in where you will likely be during college, look over material that will be taught in your upcoming college freshman year), but to study for the MCAT during high school (or hell during your freshman year) is just misguided. Likely the people who told you that they started studying in high school are the same people who post pictures of pretty highlighted notes that they took at starbucks, while staying there for maybe 5 minutes, and not getting any studying done.
 
1) Is last-minute, non-clinical community service a disadvantage? Not always. It depends on the school (as some will be satisfied with strong medical volunteerism alone. Or none.). It depends on whether you are outstanding in some other area of endeavor. It depends on other factors in your application as to whether it's a negative: Did you work 40 hours a week all through college? Are you ex-military or ex-Peace Corps? Were you the sole caretaker for 3 younger sibs? In other words, there can be moderating factors to how this delayed service is interpreted.

OTOH, were you a typical college student working 10 hours or less a week? In that case, at many schools, you'd be disadvantaged having low to no nonmedical community service hours or a last-minute effort to correct the deficiency.

2) No.

Thank you very much for your answer @Catalystik, this gives me a good framework to think about it.
 
1) Is last-minute, non-clinical community service a disadvantage? Not always. It depends on the school (as some will be satisfied with strong medical volunteerism alone. Or none.). It depends on whether you are outstanding in some other area of endeavor. It depends on other factors in your application as to whether it's a negative: Did you work 40 hours a week all through college? Are you ex-military or ex-Peace Corps? Were you the sole caretaker for 3 younger sibs? In other words, there can be moderating factors to how this delayed service is interpreted.

OTOH, were you a typical college student working 10 hours or less a week? In that case, at many schools, you'd be disadvantaged having low to no nonmedical community service hours or a last-minute effort to correct the deficiency.

2) No.

None of these mitigating factors apply to me, I think. I'm not outstanding in any area of endeavor (at least not in a reportable way), but I'm working on that. More on that once I've finished securing the opportunity.

Since moving back to the US and resuming college as a premed, I've worked variable hours, my guess would be about 30 hours a week on average. I've mainly done Uber and Lyft driving, but I also tutor periodically and use some other odd job apps like Postmates. We also earn extra income with AirBnB.

I haven't taken care of siblings or children, but my wife hasn't earned income since we moved here (she's an IMG who's studying full-time for the USMLEs), so that's been a little tricky.
 
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you should take the mcat in high school. if you score anything less than a 528, then you know medicine is not right for you much earlier than all the other premeds!
 
I waited until my last semester of college. You’re good.
 
I'm applying to the FlexMed early admissions program at the Icahn School of Medicine in NYC.
1) your applications are due by halfway through sophomore year. On top of everything else you're doing, I wouldn't expect you to have the same shadowing hours that a 4 year student would. That said, you have a little over a year so getting at least 50 isn't impossible, esp if you do it next summer.

2) that said, you still need to be able to answer "why medicine" esp for a program that encourages non-science majors. So if you have zero exposure to medicine or the day-to-day of a physician, your answer may be seen as insincere.

3) Shadowing isn't necessary for any application as long as you have significant clinical exposure. I got in with none, but had over 1000+ hours of clinical volunteering. And no physician LOR.

I personally know people who have. It seems way overkill, but people do it. Can't help but wonder if you should be, too. Pre-med Syndrome at its finest.
4) Teenagers have a prevalence of being irrational and impatient. All this does is make you neurotic and increase your risk for burnout. Mosey on over to hSDN an look at that stress nightmare. For example:
I started 9th grade this fall. I'm driving myself absolutely insane with grades and I'm killing myself over every grade I get. My grades right now go like this:

Science - 95
PE - 91
Algebra I - 90
English I - 81
World Civ. - 89
Italian - 80

I have like a 3.2 gpa. That's awful. I'm going crazy over my grades and I'm thinking about giving up.
 
1) your applications are due by halfway through sophomore year. On top of everything else you're doing, I wouldn't expect you to have the same shadowing hours that a 4 year student would. That said, you have a little over a year so getting at least 50 isn't impossible, esp if you do it next summer.

2) that said, you still need to be able to answer "why medicine" esp for a program that encourages non-science majors. So if you have zero exposure to medicine or the day-to-day of a physician, your answer may be seen as insincere.

3) Shadowing isn't necessary for any application as long as you have significant clinical exposure. I got in with none, but had over 1000+ hours of clinical volunteering. And no physician LOR.

4) Teenagers have a prevalence of being irrational and impatient. All this does is make you neurotic and increase your risk for burnout. Mosey on over to hSDN an look at that stress nightmare. For example:
Thanks a lot CryrilFiggis! Your response was very informative.

1) I'm applying to specialized summer programs that will give me anywhere from 100-300 hours of shadowing and clinical volunteer experience. I'm also putting in for regular summer volunteering in case that doesn't work out.

2) my answer for "why medicine" has a lot to do with myself and how medicine has impacted me growing up. Of course, some experience on paper can't hurt at all.

3) I'm planning to get a rec from my high school research mentor. I already have one written from undergrad apps. I have thousands of hours doing serious research, but it's in the field of geology/geochemistry. Do you think that my research experience might still have weight if it's not directly related to medicine?

4) Jeez.

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1) your applications are due by halfway through sophomore year. On top of everything else you're doing, I wouldn't expect you to have the same shadowing hours that a 4 year student would. That said, you have a little over a year so getting at least 50 isn't impossible, esp if you do it next summer.

2) that said, you still need to be able to answer "why medicine" esp for a program that encourages non-science majors. So if you have zero exposure to medicine or the day-to-day of a physician, your answer may be seen as insincere.

3) Shadowing isn't necessary for any application as long as you have significant clinical exposure. I got in with none, but had over 1000+ hours of clinical volunteering. And no physician LOR.

4) Teenagers have a prevalence of being irrational and impatient. All this does is make you neurotic and increase your risk for burnout. Mosey on over to hSDN an look at that stress nightmare. For example:
If it's any help, this is where I stand in terms of credentials: Free Text Host - The Anonymous Text Hosting Service - No Registration Required

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It seems absolutely ridiculous to me to seriously study for the MCAT in HS.
 
3) I'm planning to get a rec from my high school research mentor. I already have one written from undergrad apps. I have thousands of hours doing serious research, but it's in the field of geology/geochemistry. Do you think that my research experience might still have weight if it's not directly related to medicine?
The whole point of the flexmed program is that you aren't a bio or pre-med. Showing that you've done serious research, even outside of medicine, shouldn't be penalized.
 
The whole point of the flexmed program is that you aren't a bio or pre-med. Showing that you've done serious research, even outside of medicine, shouldn't be penalized.
Excellent point! Thank you once again.

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