Is it true that you cant do well on the mcat without taking higher level science

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alexfoleyc

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I am keep on hearing stuff that just taking the typical premed classes will not prepare you to do well on the MCAT. By well, I mean a getting a 30+ score. Is that true? I heard all this from fellow premeds. And I even read this in a "how to do well on the mcat" book in which the author states the typical premed courses (bio, chem, o-chem, physics) only cover the material needed to get an average score of 24. So, what higher level classes help? But it seems like those kaplan review books cover all the material you need. SO is it necessary to drown yourself in heavy sciences? AAMC states the premed requirements cover everything needed. Someone told me knowing advance stuff can actually confuse you on the exam.
 
I am keep on hearing stuff that just taking the typical premed classes will not prepare you to do well on the MCAT. By well, I mean a getting a 30+ score. Is that true? I heard all this from fellow premeds. And I even read this in a "how to do well on the mcat" book in which the author states the typical premed courses (bio, chem, o-chem, physics) only cover the material needed to get an average score of 24. So, what higher level classes help? But it seems like those kaplan review books cover all the material you need. SO is it necessary to drown yourself in heavy sciences? AAMC states the premed requirements cover everything needed. Someone told me knowing advance stuff can actually confuse you on the exam.

Everything you will find on the MCAT will be found in the med school prereqs. You can absolutely score above average with nothing but the prereqs. The only people who need to take more are folks whose school courses are weak or lacking. For instance, if your undergrad slacks on genetics or physiology in its bio courses, you may want to bolster it with genetics or physiology. And so on. But if your program is solid there is nothing else you need for the MCAT beyond the 8 med school prereq courses, and nothing else you will see on the MCAT.
 
All the material you need is covered in pre-reqs. HOWEVER, after taking the mcat twice, I feel that taking some upper-level bios may make you more familiar and comfortable with some passage material (e.g. Biochem, genetics, physiology, immuno). But I wouldn't take an entire semester of a course just to (possibly) help out with 1 passage on the mcat. Take it if you're interested in the material. Otherwise, whatever you need to answer questions about a passage should be: 1) explained in the passage, or 2) deduced from your pre-req knowledge.
 
Theoretically, you can score above 30 even if you took only premed prereq classes. But, taking advanced science classes definitely helps though (as they did for me) because you become familiar with topics like immunology, mamm phys, molecular biology....etc. In fact, some experimental passages cover concepts/experiment methodologies you learn in advanced science classes. Familiarity will give you an extra boost if you want to maximize your score.
 
Theoretically, you can score above 30 even if you took only premed prereq classes. But, taking advanced science classes definitely helps though (as they did for me) because you become familiar with topics like immunology, mamm phys, molecular biology....etc. In fact, some experimental passages cover concepts/experiment methodologies you learn in advanced science classes. Familiarity will give you an extra boost if you want to maximize your score.

Again, it depends on how solid your prereqs were. Many of us got ample exposure to topics like you suggest in the basic bio course prereqs. Speaking as someone who took nothing but the prereqs, I can say with certainty that there was NOTHING on the MCAT that wasn't covered in the prereqs (not that I answered them all correctly, but it was not due to lack of exposure), and no real value in taking more. If your undergrad prereqs were weak in topics, then sure, bolster it. But if they were solid there really is no need. Most of the non-sci majors will have taken nothing but the prereqs, and they tend not to be at the bottom of the scorers. According to the AAMC data, bio majors as a group tend to have lower average MCAT scores, and most bio majors have had significant numbers of advanced science courses.
 
Again, it depends on how solid your prereqs were. Many of us got ample exposure to topics like you suggest in the basic bio course prereqs. Speaking as someone who took nothing but the prereqs, I can say with certainty that there was NOTHING on the MCAT that wasn't covered in the prereqs (not that I answered them all correctly, but it was not due to lack of exposure), and no real value in taking more. If your undergrad prereqs were weak in topics, then sure, bolster it. But if they were solid there really is no need. Most of the non-sci majors will have taken nothing but the prereqs, and they tend not to be at the bottom of the scorers. According to the AAMC data, bio majors as a group tend to have lower average MCAT scores, and most bio majors have had significant numbers of advanced science courses.

In my case, I kinda had to take advanced classes before taking MCAT because I was done with lower-div science classes by the end of the freshman year, and I just started taking upper-div classes for my major right after that.

Yes, I heard that non-science majors (especially history/humanities ones) tend to do better on all three MCAT sections. Maybe because they take more literature/expository writing classes than science majors while taking all the premed prereqs? I guess for all the premeds out there, the best course of action would be taking tons of English and advanced science classes....this would be an unbeatable combo!😀
 
i dunno man i was a physiology major but my best score was in VR. i only did average on the practice BS sections on physiology stuff
 
there was NOTHING on the MCAT that wasn't covered in the prereqs

dude, more premeds should listen to this...

i'll go even further and say that taking advanced level courses will make you think too hard about simple stuff... i nailed bio (13), and I only took bio 101-102... never taken anatomy, biochem, genetics, or any of that other crap premeds like to brag about taking these days...
 
dude, more premeds should listen to this...

i'll go even further and say that taking advanced level crap will make you think too hard about simple stuff... i nailed bio (13), and I only took bio 101-102... that was the only bio i ever took actually...

yeah i think i had this problem. when there was a physiology passage like about the ear or something id go nuts
 
In my case, I kinda had to take advanced classes before taking MCAT because I was done with lower-div science classes by the end of the freshman year, and I just started taking upper-div classes for my major right after that.

Yes, I heard that non-science majors (especially history/humanities ones) tend to do better on all three MCAT sections. Maybe because they take more literature/expository writing classes than science majors while taking all the premed prereqs? I guess for all the premeds out there, the best course of action would be taking tons of English and advanced science classes....this would be an unbeatable combo!😀

haha. Solid as iron.
 
As others have stated, the prereqs are really all you need. However, I'm convinced, without any real evidence, that the longer people wait to take the mcat after they finish their prereqs, the more they will forget. The more people forget, the lower their score. To combat that effect, I decided to take the mcat before I finished the prereqs, and I did alright...
 
The prerequisites are the only classs you really need for the background info tested on the MCAT. The rest of the exam is just about how you reason and think problems through. Personally, I feel that a strong background in both psychology and philosophy helped me in verbal since a lot of those passages seemed to be about different view points and/or the social sciences.
 
Again, it depends on how solid your prereqs were. Many of us got ample exposure to topics like you suggest in the basic bio course prereqs. Speaking as someone who took nothing but the prereqs, I can say with certainty that there was NOTHING on the MCAT that wasn't covered in the prereqs (not that I answered them all correctly, but it was not due to lack of exposure), and no real value in taking more. If your undergrad prereqs were weak in topics, then sure, bolster it. But if they were solid there really is no need. Most of the non-sci majors will have taken nothing but the prereqs, and they tend not to be at the bottom of the scorers. According to the AAMC data, bio majors as a group tend to have lower average MCAT scores, and most bio majors have had significant numbers of advanced science courses.

Same here. I only took the pre-reqs (at a rigorous post bacc) and there was nothing on the MCAT that I had not been exposed to...

The best prep for the MCAT is lots of "reading." As a lib arts major, I did not have any of the problems with the passages that you hear people griping about...the MCAT is a test of reasoning skills - if you have a solid, basic grasp of the concepts and facts in the pre-reqs, and you have strong reading/analytical/reasoning skills, you should do fine on the MCAT (30+).
 
You can definitely score >30 only taking the pre-reqs 👍
 
dude, more premeds should listen to this...

i'll go even further and say that taking advanced level courses will make you think too hard about simple stuff... i nailed bio (13), and I only took bio 101-102... never taken anatomy, biochem, genetics, or any of that other crap premeds like to brag about taking these days...

As others have stated, the prereqs are really all you need. However, I'm convinced, without any real evidence, that the longer people wait to take the mcat after they finish their prereqs, the more they will forget. The more people forget, the lower their score. To combat that effect, I decided to take the mcat before I finished the prereqs, and I did alright...

don't worry about "forgetting" too much. That is what your MCAT prep is for. Taking upper level science classes and in general more science classes gives you the foundation upon which to study for the MCAT.

Taking upper level science classes most certainly will not make you overthink the exam questions.
 
I was a humanities major who loves to read. I took only the pre-med prereqs, most of them in the last 4 semesters before taking the MCAT, and did very well.

At no point, ever, did I feel like I should have taken upper level science classes in order to give me a better foundation of knowledge for the MCAT. I felt that everything I needed to know was either covered in the review materials or could be found in the passages themselves.

I think the only non-prereq science courses I would recommend for med school (not necessarily the MCAT) are physiology and genetics (and biochem, but I consider that a prereq, not sure if every school does though).

And everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should take a stats class and take it seriously. It's probably the most important course you'll take in undergrad.
 
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I was a humanities major who loves to read. I took only the pre-med prereqs, most of them in the last 4 semesters before taking the MCAT, and did very well.

At no point, ever, did I feel like I should have taken upper level science classes in order to give me a better foundation of knowledge for the MCAT. I felt that everything I needed to know was either covered in the review materials or could be found in the passages themselves.
Only if you want to, of course. I just don't want people reading this stuff and thinking that taking hard science courses will hurt them. Taking upper levels is the only reason I scored as high as I did.

I think the only non-prereq science courses I would recommend for med school (not necessarily the MCAT) are physiology and genetics (and biochem, but I consider that a prereq, not sure if every school does though).

And everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should take a stats class and take it seriously. It's probably the most important course you'll take in undergrad.

Do this. I didn't like statistics in undergrad, so I didn't take it. Guess what? I still don't like statistics! If you learn it well in undergrad (even if you forget it b/w then and medical school) you will have a leg up in when it comes time to take biostatistics in M1.
 
Only if you want to, of course. I just don't want people reading this stuff and thinking that taking hard science courses will hurt them. Taking upper levels is the only reason I scored as high as I did.



Do this. I didn't like statistics in undergrad, so I didn't take it. Guess what? I still don't like statistics! If you learn it well in undergrad (even if you forget it b/w then and medical school) you will have a leg up in when it comes time to take biostatistics in M1.

Econ major here. Took half my pre-reqs in highschool as AP credit and took upper-level AFTER the MCAT. So really, I had my pre-reqs a long time back at the time of my MCAT. Did pretty decent. Just study study study and you'll be able to do fine.

Also, STATS! Take it. Both for med school/medicine in general, but also for common knowledge. As an econ major who works with more stats than I will probably need to know in med school, statistics courses should be called "b.s. detecting 101". It's great when you hear stats thrown out by politicians or "convincing studies" and you're able to dice it up and see through the numbers. Definitely extremely worthwhile.
 
If you can fit in some upper level courses, I guarantee you will do better. Especially courses like physiology, genetics and cell bio. They'll solidify the things you've learned and teach you things you just completely do not know (like physiology).
 
Everything you will find on the MCAT will be found in the med school prereqs. You can absolutely score above average with nothing but the prereqs. The only people who need to take more are folks whose school courses are weak or lacking. For instance, if your undergrad slacks on genetics or physiology in its bio courses, you may want to bolster it with genetics or physiology. And so on. But if your program is solid there is nothing else you need for the MCAT beyond the 8 med school prereq courses, and nothing else you will see on the MCAT.


A solid third of my MCAT bio was physiology. Physiology isn't explicitly a med school prereq. There was also stuff on my MCAT that we just covered in Biochem class that I knew like the back of my hand. If I hadn't taken upper level Biochem, there's no way I would have figured out some of that stuff.
 
Most upper division bio classes that you can take will help you, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Personally, the only class above and beyond the pre-reqs that I think of as really important for the MCAT is physiology.
 
A solid third of my MCAT bio was physiology. Physiology isn't explicitly a med school prereq. There was also stuff on my MCAT that we just covered in Biochem class that I knew like the back of my hand. If I hadn't taken upper level Biochem, there's no way I would have figured out some of that stuff.

Then your school is very weak in its bio prereqs. Most of us had ample physiology in those courses -- more than we saw on the MCAT. So sure, as I've said several times, if your schools' prereqs suk, take more courses. If, like the rest of us, you had prereq courses that were solid, you will not see anything new on the MCAT.
 
If you can fit in some upper level courses, I guarantee you will do better. ...

This is a foolish guarantee. As mentioned if you look at the AAMC data, bio is among the majors that on average do toward the low end of MCAT scores, while some of the nonsci folks actually do better on average. So on average people in a major which requires some of the upper level things you advise do WORSE on the test. So much for your guarantee.
 
This is a foolish guarantee. As mentioned if you look at the AAMC data, bio is among the majors that on average do toward the low end of MCAT scores, while some of the nonsci folks actually do better on average. So on average people in a major which requires some of the upper level things you advise do WORSE on the test. So much for your guarantee.

Everyone i've known that has taken the MCAT before and after upper level science courses, has done better. Could just be that they studied better, learned from their mistakes, and improved their scores. But either way, i'd guarantee it.

The pre-reqs alone are completely lacking critical information, especially physiology, that you can not answer many MCAT questions without. I ran into this problem my first time, so many terms i had never heard and so much information that i had not the slightest clue about (mostly physiology).
 
Then your school is very weak in its bio prereqs. Most of us had ample physiology in those courses -- more than we saw on the MCAT. So sure, as I've said several times, if your schools' prereqs suk, take more courses. If, like the rest of us, you had prereq courses that were solid, you will not see anything new on the MCAT.

Your school taught physiology in general bio 1 or 2? Lucky.

I thought my school was normal in that there is absolutely no physiology in our 2 general biology courses.
 
Everyone i've known that has taken the MCAT before and after upper level science courses, has done better. ..

You likely don't know a significantly significant number of people. Again, look at the AAMC data. People in majors who certainly will have taken upper level courses do not do better than the people in majors who are less likely to have taken upper levels. At any rate you can see that many many people who would have taken upper level courses are at the lower range of MCAT scores - so much for your guarantee. You can't really argue with the data. The prereqs are all you need to do well, unless your school skimps on the prereqs.
 
Your school taught physiology in general bio 1 or 2? Lucky.

I thought my school was normal in that there is absolutely no physiology in our 2 general biology courses.

Again, there was NOTHING on the MCAT that wasn't in my prereqs. Nothing. Nada. Nil. No point in taking an upper level. Smarter to spend that time reviewing the prereqs, which were quite thorough. It was all in there.
 
You likely don't know a significantly significant number of people. Again, look at the AAMC data. People in majors who certainly will have taken upper level courses do not do better than the people in majors who are less likely to have taken upper levels. At any rate you can see that many many people who would have taken upper level courses are at the lower range of MCAT scores - so much for your guarantee. You can't really argue with the data. The prereqs are all you need to do well, unless your school skimps on the prereqs.

Yeah, but those stats have nothing to do with the discussion. How do you know those humanities majors would not have done better with upper level courses? How do you know that the bio majors wouldn't have scored even worse if they took it with just the pre-req's? We don't. But it's pretty obvious that more classes = more knowledge. More knowledge, or at least a better foundation of the MCAT essentials should lead to better scores. If it doesn't, just give up on the MCAT.
 
Again, there was NOTHING on the MCAT that wasn't in my prereqs. Nothing. Nada. Nil. No point in taking an upper level. Smarter to spend that time reviewing the prereqs, which were quite thorough. It was all in there.

Your school was awesome. Mine blows, and it missed on a ton of material essential for the MCAT.
 
Yeah, but those stats have nothing to do with the discussion. How do you know those humanities majors would not have done better with upper level courses? How do you know that the bio majors wouldn't have scored even worse if they took it with just the pre-req's? We don't. But it's pretty obvious that more classes = more knowledge. More knowledge, or at least a better foundation of the MCAT essentials should lead to better scores. If it doesn't, just give up on the MCAT.

I guess, but it's still hard with a straight face to guarantee that someone who takes upper levels will do better when you can see that the average stats of groups of folks who took upper levels is lower than groups who didn't. Common things being common, and all that...
 
I guess, but it's still hard with a straight face to guarantee that someone who takes upper levels will do better when you can see that the average stats of groups of folks who took upper levels is lower than groups who didn't. Common things being common, and all that...

👍

I'm only n=1, but as a social sciences major, it seemed like I scored higher on BS than almost all of my science major friends who had taken all these upper level courses.

I could definitely be wrong, but from my experience, this is what I have learned:

For the post above claiming that a solid third of their MCAT was physiology, I find it very hard to believe that those questions couldn't be answered if you had a solid understanding of the basic sciences. As much as I hate the AAMC, I am sure they would have been kind enough to inform us that physiology/genetics/biochem were becoming mandatory for doing well on the MCAT.

People who take these upper level science classes are obviously always going to insist that their MCAT was a lot easier because of those courses. There's no way for them to see what it would have been like to not have that extra knowledge.

As a person who took bio 101/102 and scored 13 on BS, I can tell you that there was NOTHING I couldn't answer. The mistakes I got were my own fault, and not because I didn't have the knowledge to answer them.

I guess what I'm trying to say that instead of taking some genetics/physiology class, why not put that effort into doubling your study efforts for the basic biology/chemistry concepts? You might be pleasantly surprised.
 
I agree with L2D, my prereqs covered everything I needed, nothing foreign popped up. If your prereqs aren't like that then I guess you're screwed, but otherwise taking the test asap after finishing the prereqs is best for retention.
 
I have to agree with some others that is seriously depends on what the prereq courses at your school are like. At MY school, the basic required bio courses would not have been enough. We only learned about cell and molecular bio stuff, nothing about organ systems and whatnot. So yea, I can TRULY say that had I not taken physiology I would not have done well in the bio section.
 
I only took the minimum requirements (bio, chem, orgo, physics) and got a 37Q.
 
I only took the minimum requirements (bio, chem, orgo, physics) and got a 37Q.

On the other hand, I took just about every high level bio science class in addition to a TON of biomedical engineering classes (many of whose topics appeared on the MCAT PS and BS sections) and scored a 39R. I attribute a lot of that success to my high-level foundation. I personally don't think I would have achieved that score with only my school's pre-req classes.
 
On the other hand, I took just about every high level bio science class in addition to a TON of biomedical engineering classes (many of whose topics appeared on the MCAT PS and BS sections) and scored a 39R. I attribute a lot of that success to my high-level foundation. I personally don't think I would have achieved that score with only my school's pre-req classes.

You make a good point; however, that is a crap load of courses that you took for those 2 extra points (i.e. compared to the post right above yours). Instead of taking those upper level courses and all those biomed engineering class, and simply focusing all that effort on studying the basic bio/chems, I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have been able to get such a high score.

I can't think of anyone who has taken upper level classes who would outright say that they didn't help at all. It would be impossible to see what it would have been like to not have that knowledge. But then again, to each his own.

congrats on the high score btw!
 
You make a good point; however, that is a crap load of courses that you took for those 2 extra points (i.e. compared to the post right above yours). Instead of taking those upper level courses and all those biomed engineering class, and simply focusing all that effort on studying the basic bio/chems, I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have been able to get such a high score.

I can't think of anyone who has taken upper level classes who would outright say that they didn't help at all. It would be impossible to see what it would have been like to not have that knowledge. But then again, to each his own.

congrats on the high score btw!

Well to be honest, I didn't take those courses because I knew they would help me with the MCAT.. I took them because I was interested in biomedical engineering and those high-level bio courses are prerequisites for things like "biomechanical physics" and "bioreactor engineering."

But you are probably right, if you spent that effort on some serious self-study you probably would have landed the same score.

I think the bottomline is your MCAT score reflects the amount of effort you put into your studying (negating any sort of innate test taking skills, "intelligence," and other intangibles).

PS: Phospho, I enjoy your posts. They're blunt and no-BS. Where are you headed next year?
 
got a 14 on the bio/orgo section took basic bio, bio lab, and took a prep course. Took an advanced physics, didn't learn half the physics that's on the mcat (optics and such), only did well (14) on that section cause i took a prep course. These are scores from about 7 years ago?
 
I have to agree with some others that is seriously depends on what the prereq courses at your school are like. At MY school, the basic required bio courses would not have been enough. We only learned about cell and molecular bio stuff, nothing about organ systems and whatnot. So yea, I can TRULY say that had I not taken physiology I would not have done well in the bio section.

Not a single thing. I never heard a single thing about any organ or any process. I actually never heard any one thing about humans period, just cell processes. State schools FTMFL!!!!
 
No, it's not true at all.


Not a single thing. I never heard a single thing about any organ or any process. I actually never heard any one thing about humans period, just cell processes. State schools FTMFL!!!!
My state school covered plenty of that in intro bio 1 and 2.
 
I only took the minimum requirements (bio, chem, orgo, physics) and got a 37Q.

You just knew everything about how the kidney, lungs and heart work? About how proteins, lipids, carbs are digested? These things seemed critical on my MCAT and I had not the slightest clue the first time I took it.
 
I can't think of anyone who has taken upper level classes who would outright say that they didn't help at all. It would be impossible to see what it would have been like to not have that knowledge. But then again, to each his own.

I did it before and after upper level courses, and my scored improved significantly.

Although, from the previous posts, my school apparently sucked azz. We didn't cover a large amount of critical information in the pre-reqs.
 
Law2Doc said:
This is a foolish guarantee. As mentioned if you look at the AAMC data, bio is among the majors that on average do toward the low end of MCAT scores, while some of the nonsci folks actually do better on average.

Part of this probably has to do with the fact that more bio majors take the MCAT, and so there are more people to do worse. Also, it's sort of a common misconception that you have to be a biology major to be a pre-med; thus, it could be true that non-science pre-meds have had some talks with an adviser or have at least done some research (since they realize they don't need to be a science major) and are more invested in the process.

I'm not saying you're wrong about upper division classes being unnecessary, but I don't think the numbers you presented are an accurate representation of what upper division classes can do for you.

Law2Doc said:
So on average people in a major which requires some of the upper level things you advise do WORSE on the test. So much for your guarantee.

It's pretty misleading to imply that taking upper division classes will make you do worse on the MCAT.

My $.02: I think Law2Doc and NoMoreAMCAS have good points. I don't think you need to take any upper division classes to do well on the MCAT, but I do think every upper division class you take helps you (especially physiology).
 
...
It's pretty misleading to imply that taking upper division classes will make you do worse on the MCAT....

I actually wasn't implying that. I was refuting a guarantee that taking upper levels will make you do better, by showing that statistically those who do that on average don't appear to do better. (Not doing better isn't equivalent to doing worse).
 
I actually wasn't implying that. I was refuting a guarantee that taking upper levels will make you do better, by showing that statistically those who do that on average don't appear to do better. (Not doing better isn't equivalent to doing worse).

Nobody has shown that statistically those who take upper level courses don't do better. It needs to be the same individual or it doesn't matter; one test taker could simply be smarter than the other.
 
alexfoleyc,

Most science majors finish the lower-division portion of premed prereqs by the end of their first years. So, by the time you take your MCAT (I assume usually after the sophomore year), you wil have taken a substantial number of upper-division, advanced science classes for your major. So you simply end up taking those classes regardless of your will.

Anyway, what I mean is you don't have to take advanced classes for the sake of acing MCAT, but doing so definitely won't hurt your performance on MCAT either. In fact, it helped me a big time.

Btw, what is your situation right now? Have you taken any upper-division science classes?
 
alexfoleyc,

Most science majors finish the lower-division portion of premed prereqs by the end of their first years. So, by the time you take your MCAT (I assume usually after the sophomore year), you wil have taken a substantial number of upper-division, advanced science classes for your major. So you simply end up taking those classes regardless of your will.

Anyway, what I mean is you don't have to take advanced classes for the sake of acing MCAT, but doing so definitely won't hurt your performance on MCAT either. In fact, it helped me a big time.

Btw, what is your situation right now? Have you taken any upper-division science classes?

Except not everyone who takes the MCAT is a science major. I think the consensus is that you don't NEED upper-level science classes to do well on the MCAT, but they won't hurt your chances of doing well on the test either.
 
Except not everyone who takes the MCAT is a science major. I think the consensus is that you don't NEED upper-level science classes to do well on the MCAT, but they won't hurt your chances of doing well on the test either.
Mine didn't only not hurt me, they helped. It's great when you get a passage about an obscure experiment that you've already read about in a class.


Most science majors finish the lower-division portion of premed prereqs by the end of their first years. So, by the time you take your MCAT (I assume usually after the sophomore year), you wil have taken a substantial number of upper-division, advanced science classes for your major. So you simply end up taking those classes regardless of your will.

Anyway, what I mean is you don't have to take advanced classes for the sake of acing MCAT, but doing so definitely won't hurt your performance on MCAT either. In fact, it helped me a big time.

Btw, what is your situation right now? Have you taken any upper-division science classes?
Most people take the MCAT during their junior year, usually half-way through or toward the end.
 
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