Is it worth it?

[DD214_DOC]

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I have a few questions regarding reapplying.

How do DO schools handle retakes of the MCAT? Let's say I actually study this time and get a 11 VR, 10 PS, 9 BS (30) and this year I got a 10 VR, 5 PS, 7 BS. How would the schools handle this? Do they take the highest of each section from both tests? Do they average? Only take the latest?

Also, I would like your opinion on something. Since my GPA improved quite a bit this semester, and I'm guaranteed A's in the Spring just because of the classes I'm taking and how few hours it is, do you think it would be beneficial to add one more science class?

I applied with:
Cumulative: 3.31
BCPM: 3.17

I currently have:
Cumulative: 3.36
BCPM: 3.31

Without an additional science:
Cumulative: 3.40
BCPM: 3.33

Retaking Organic Chem II (a third time)
Cumulative: 3.45
BCPM: 3.52

With an additional science (something fun, like a physics class)
Cumulative: 3.42
BCPM: 3.39

Would the additional 0.02 and 0.06 point improvements really matter as much as a good improvement in the MCAT, combined with working a job? What about retaking organic II again? (I got a C the second time; damn you getting sick during the final!) The additional class will add about $400 to my bill and require more time.

Obviously, numbers-wise retaking Organic II again would be best, but at the interview at PCOM I noticed they basically ignored the fact I retook it.

Just curious what you guys think.

 

[Nate]

I would stick with this

I currently have:
Cumulative: 3.36
BCPM: 3.31

I would do something worthwhile with my time in the interim, research or some interesting job that you enjoy.

And, definitely rock the MCAT; schools will probably just look at the higher score. The only school that I have heard that actually takes the highest sub-section for all tests is Tufts.

Also, I would really consider applying to a few more schools this year... I think you can make it in this year if you broaden your horizons a bit.

We are rooting for you.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I decided just to wait. With a 22 MCAT, I don't see myself going anywhere, and none of the two schools will tell me what went wrong, so I'm gonna take some time and reapply. I wouldn't mind a break from academics anyways.

I might could get in somewhere if I threw some more apps out there, but it's not worth it to me. Next year, though, I'm going to apply to many, many places (If I can find that damned elusive science LOR!)

By the way, do I have to get completely new LORs? Only a few schools have even seen them. I really don't have time to find another DO letter.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

By the way, do I have to get completely new LORs? Only a few schools have even seen them. I really don't have time to find another DO letter.

Ok, I don't want to offend you in ANY way whatsover, but I am going to call you out on this statement. If you can't find the time to find another DO letter are you really committed to A) reapplying B) medical school and C) life as a physician?

I was just thinking out loud, please, please, don't take this the wrong way.

 

[Assembler]

JKD, as I mentioned to you in another thread, I really believe you should still apply if you're deadset on entering next year. If not, then there are a lot of things you could do with the rest of your time (like have a life outside of school!). I'm in no place to give you advice about the MCAT because I studied my ass off for it, and well, it didn't do me any good - so I won't even go there. I would suggest you take 2 additional science classes, to raise your BCPM into the 3.4 range. You don't have to take anything really strenous; there are a lot of easy classes (ie. biostatistics) that can fall into the BCPM category. I also wouldn't recommend taking organic for a third time around. It's really not worth the risk or time of doing it over again. Just explain what happened as clearly as you can, if it ever comes up in an interview. You don't have to get completely new LOR's altogether either. You probably will need to send at least 1 new one, whether it be one you never sent in before, or one from a current field of work/school/etc. Also, if you're going to apply to a broad range of you schools, you should get a minimum of 2 science + 1 non-science LOR's. You mentioned you need another science LOR; I would definitely try to get that in.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Ok, I don't want to offend you in ANY way whatsover, but I am going to call you out on this statement. If you can't find the time to find another DO letter are you really committed to A) reapplying B) medical school and C) life as a physician?

I was just thinking out loud, please, please, don't take this the wrong way.

Some of us don't have the luxury of going out and wasting our time volunteering, shadowing, etc. for a second time. Some things, such as providing for a family, take priority over appeasing this stupid process.

Am I committed to being a physician? Yeah, I wouldn't consider reapplying if I wasn't.

Am I more committed to providing for my family? Yes.

I have to pay for parts of a wedding and a honeymoon in what, 5 months now? I also have to not only make my car payments and my own auto insurance, but also the auto insurance and health insurance of my wife-to-be. That means during the spring I will be doing three things: studying for the MCAT, going to class, and working.

After May, I will be doing two things: working full time and going through the app process. Where? No idea.

 

[EMTLizzy]

Some of us don't have the luxury of going out and wasting our time volunteering, shadowing, etc. for a second time. Some things, such as providing for a family, take priority over appeasing this stupid process.

Easy there. Don't let this process make you bitter. Volunteering isn't a waste of time. It's a good application builder and if you're reapplying you're going to have to show you've made some real changes to your application.


Family responsibilities should always come first. But if you are going to be the sole provider, med school may not be good right now until you get on your feet financially. You won't be able to work full time while in school. Just consider the ramifications if finances are that much of a concern.

 

[EastCoaster78]

Dont waste your time repeating any undergrad classes after u graduate. Adcoms want to see you take on something more challenging. Try taking some graduate classes...maybe biochem and anatomy. But repeating undergrad classes prob wont help any. They already interviewed you, so ur undergrad grades already met their standards. Impress them by taking on a new challenge. And definitly work on ur interview skills and get more clinical experiance.

 

[Robz]

Some of us don't have the luxury of going out and wasting our time volunteering, shadowing, etc. for a second time. Some things, such as providing for a family, take priority over appeasing this stupid process.

Ummmm, I kinda take offense that volunteering is a waste of time. You might want to rethink that statement.

I understand the pressures of money and time. I think that in your situation that if you do not get a acceptance this year then the MCAT is the weakest spot. Go study...beat it like a rented mule and get into your school of choice.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Perhaps it is just me, but I didn't find changing bed sheets and toting **** to the lab to be a very good use of my time. Maybe I'm the only "pre med" who isn't so full of himself that I'll admit I only volunteered because I was expected to.

 

[EMTLizzy]

Perhaps it is just me, but I didn't find changing bed sheets and toting **** to the lab to be a very good use of my time. Maybe I'm the only "pre med" who isn't so full of himself that I'll admit I only volunteered because I was expected to.

You should look for a more enjoyable volunteer experience. Maybe an internship with your public health department?

Relax. If you don't get in this year you'll get in next if it's meant to be. You're getting all tense on us lately. 😀

 

[harmlessfun21]

You should look for a more enjoyable volunteer experience. Maybe an internship with your public health department?

Relax. If you don't get in this year you'll get in next if it's meant to be. You're getting all tense on us lately. 😀

well, you really need to show some major change in your application - repeating classes or more 'meaningful' volunteer experiences won't change things (trust me i know what i'm talking about - i've been blessed with quite a few acceptances already - and it's still relatively early in the game)....................if you're going to take classes they'd better be the molecular cell bio/biochem/developmental bio type classes - to show that you can handle med school level science classes - as for volunteer experiences, two weeks shadowing an internist etc won't do it - they're looking for something more longterm - i.e. did you actually help make a difference

also, you might really consider doing a formal post-bacc program, a linked post-bacc program, or just going abroad (if you want it bad enough)

 

[deleted9493]

The best way to make yourself more competitive right now, in my mind's eye, would be to study for the MCAT. Alot of people get multiple acceptances with your gpa and definitely with C's in organic. The fact that verbal seems to be your strong suit is a pretty good indicator (I think) that you should spend some more time just getting to know basic science. PS and BS scores are easiest to bring up and your goal of a 30 certainly seems attainable given your last verbal score.

I think admissions committees are pretty good at separating out the "fakies" from those who have genuine interest in medicine/people. That being said, an application that is well put together and thought out is invaluable in the process. Write essays that are genuine, heart-felt, and honest. They'll see right through you if they're not.

P.S. I had a job in which I changed alot of bed sheets and toted innumerable satchels of excrement to lab. Were it not for that job, I would not be studying medicine right now, and I certainly wouldn't be as excited about it as I am. Medical experience is very desirable in the eyes of adcoms for a reason and maybe you don't see that right now but eventually, if you stay the course, you will. Good luck.

 

[Peace&Health]

I have a few questions regarding reapplying.
I applied with:
Cumulative: 3.31
BCPM: 3.17

JKDMed,
Some thoughts on your questions...
1. How do DO schools handle retakes of the MCAT?
If anything, it seems your MCAT is what held you back. Definitely retake it if you want to do medicine. My friend had a 24 MCAT and the school he applied to told him that was his one weakness. If you can bring it up to 27 or higher. THE KEY IS TO SHOW IMPROVEMENT--if you can get 8 pts like you planned, that would be awesome.
Also, let me share with you the first time I took it w/o a prep course, I got a lousy 19 (never applied). The second time I took it with a Prep course, I got a 27. They liked that I really improved.
2. LORs
If you plan to reapply, I would arrange for a letter service to keep your letters for you (for the convenience of sending out as many letters as you need, yet not having to trouble your letter writers again). Some universities allow you to use their letter service, even if you are not a student, but of course for a higher fee.
FYI--I did not have time to shadow my DOs for their LORs. I interviewed with them and shadowed them for a day. That worked for me.
3. Things to do now and before you apply
Do something that shows you are interested in medicine--that means if your job that will pay you enough to support your family is not related to medicine, then you will need to volunteer somewhere. If your job is already related to medicine, then your fine.
Final word--focus on the MCAT! No matter how capable you are, there must be evidence of your capability.
If you'd like, pm me with your extracurriculars and I'll give you my thoughts. Don't give up!!! (
4. Another suggestion--international med school--if you want to save on time--schools like Ross or St. Georges may be an alternative...although you will not get the OMT training but you will be doctor. But if you can wait to reapply next year, then do that first.

We are behind you all the way!

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm definitely going to apply to SGU next year, just so I get at least one acceptance 😀 Not sure on Ross, though.

Another question I had. I may be working as a research assistant during the spring semester, or something in the hospital. However, I won't be able to stay after I get married in June because they won't pay enough to take care of the bills. I may have time to volunteer then, but I don't know. Maybe not.

Anyways, I've been looking at my two state schools (MUSC and USC) and it seems I may have a shot next year if I do well enough on the MCAT (30+). I really don't have the money to take a prep course, so I'm gonna have to put in some serious study time.

So this is what my MD numbers look like now.
Cum: 3.36
Sci: 3.25

Now, I am considering taking 13 hours in the Spring instead of 10 to add two more science courses, most likely biochem and a lower-level physics course. Assuming I got A's in both, it would do this:
Cum: 3.38
Sci: 3.33

It makes a notable difference for my MD numbers, and would have the added advantage of bumping my DO numbers to 3.43/3.43. It would also give me two semesters of straight A's, which I know schools like to see (serious upward trend!)

The question, is it worth it? Is the increased GPA for MD worth the work and risk of actually lowering it? Keep in mind, I will be working and preparing for the MCAT, as well as taking 2 history courses and a lab. I'm sure there's no secret formula, but would the 3.25 -> 3.33 increase make that much of a difference, or should I continue to focus on the MCAT?

 

[OSUdoc08]

I have a few questions regarding reapplying.

How do DO schools handle retakes of the MCAT? Let's say I actually study this time and get a 11 VR, 10 PS, 9 BS (30) and this year I got a 10 VR, 5 PS, 7 BS. How would the schools handle this? Do they take the highest of each section from both tests? Do they average? Only take the latest?

Also, I would like your opinion on something. Since my GPA improved quite a bit this semester, and I'm guaranteed A's in the Spring just because of the classes I'm taking and how few hours it is, do you think it would be beneficial to add one more science class?

I applied with:
Cumulative: 3.31
BCPM: 3.17

I currently have:
Cumulative: 3.36
BCPM: 3.31

Without an additional science:
Cumulative: 3.40
BCPM: 3.33

Retaking Organic Chem II (a third time)
Cumulative: 3.45
BCPM: 3.52

With an additional science (something fun, like a physics class)
Cumulative: 3.42
BCPM: 3.39

Would the additional 0.02 and 0.06 point improvements really matter as much as a good improvement in the MCAT, combined with working a job? What about retaking organic II again? (I got a C the second time; damn you getting sick during the final!) The additional class will add about $400 to my bill and require more time.

Obviously, numbers-wise retaking Organic II again would be best, but at the interview at PCOM I noticed they basically ignored the fact I retook it.

Just curious what you guys think.

If your MCAT is bad the second time, don't submit it.
If you make a C or above, don't retake it. It is only necessary to retake D's & F's.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Ok mcandy, I tried to refrain from replying to your post, but I can't.

In candy-coated premed land, you may think you can work 30 hours a week, go to school, manage a relationship, take classes, study for the MCAT, AND volunteer. In the real world, that's just not possible without sacrificing one thing for another; there are only so many hours in the week.

And besides, I have already done my fair share of volunteering, shadowing, and clnical exposure. Can't say I really enjoyed volunteering that much, and I think utlimately this stuff doesn't count for a whole lot. I barely had 6 months of exposure, and it was never brought up during an interview. The truth is, you cannot make an informed decision of whether medicine is for you by standing around watching other people do the work. One can only make a truly informed decision regarding their career choice after they have experienced it for themselves.

Would I have time to add more volunteer/clinical stuff after I graduate in May? Not likely, as then I'll be in training (hooray criminal justice academy) if I go that route, then working 50-60 hours a week on top of managing a marriage and continuing some of my EC's, WHILE applying and interviewing. If you think you can find time to add volunteering and more shadowing into that, then I say you're delusional. And good luck finding a decent-paying full-time job in a clinical setting without some sort of certificate or 2-year degree. I have to find something that pays at least $30,000/year just to scrape by, and that's not going to happen at a hospital.

However, none of any of this is really relevant to my post. I never questioned by ability to manage 10-13 hours of classes combined with everything else. I never even mentioned volunteer work. I simply asked if the increased GPA was worth adding two more science classes on top of everything else I had to undertake this semester, or if I should just focus on the MCAT.

 

[medic170]

Ok mcandy, I tried to refrain from replying to your post, but I can't.

In candy-coated premed land, you may think you can work 30 hours a week, go to school, manage a relationship, take classes, study for the MCAT, AND volunteer. In the real world, that's just not possible without sacrificing one thing for another; there are only so many hours in the week.
.

JKD, I am married with a family, and I worked 40 hours a week while shadowing, studying for MCAT, going to school full time, and volunteering too.
It can be done.

You can't pad your CV with meaningless experience and expect the ADCOMS to be impressed. I volunteered before I wanted to be a doc because that is who I am. I worked the ambulance, and then I cut my hours there to work at an urgent care in order to get more exposure to clinical medicine. I worked there for 1 and a half years. I interned for 4 months at my state Capital for a Congressman and worked on Rx policy and Medicaid reform. I shadowed extensivly and did research(even published a paper as single author), which not only looked good on the CV, but I got excellent LOR's out of it. My grades are not the best and my MCAT was ok but not great. But its these other experiences that made me stand out, and I got in almost everywhere I applied. These are the kinds of things you need to do in order to get accepted, but you need to do things that YOU like and that show who YOU are and why YOU would make a great physician.

I do not mean this as an insult at all, but I have seen you developing a defeatest attitude and a lot of bitterness. This will not help you. Stay positive and, if medicine is your dream, be willing to make sacrifices and work harder. I wish you the best!

 

[benelswick]

Hey JK:

Don't let these Dr. Phill wanabe's get you riled up. You've got a full plate. The MCAT marathon study is your best bet. If want to go allo then maybe some more class work. The heck with volunteering. It's not just about who can be the best robotic, do-it-all premed, for those of us with other people in our lives who require some of our attention and work full-time and go to school that's enough.
If you're fortunate like me your can make enough money in a healthcare job while securing solid letters of recomendation and experience.

I had a buddy who went osteo who just looked up a graduate where he wanted to go and offered to buy her breakfast for a quick meeting. He brought a cover letter and his credentials and pitched himself while they ate. She ended up writing him a bang-up letter and she was a dept head in Internal Medicine, I think. So that's an option for a time saving DO letter.

P.S. To everybody who came off like pretentious little pricks....when you're giving somebody a hand with words or otherwise meet them where they are not where you think everyone should be. Think about that as you interact with patients in the future.

 

[DD214_DOC]

You other guys really think everyone goes into medicine to fulfill some sensationalized desire to serve others and fulfill far-fetched ideals of altruism? I really didn't find standing around for hours and changing a few bed sheets to be very rewarding.

My grades are fine. If my grades weren't academically competitive, I wouldn't have been granted 3 interviews to the only 3 schools I applied to. In the end, two schools decided, for whatever reason, not to admit me. I surmise it had to do with the MCAT. So, I retake it.

My point of my six months of volunteer work is that it was enough for the adcoms. I still got interviews. Who knows, the third school may have admitted me. Why needlessly add more when I don't need it? I have no idea where the, "you need more volunteer work" garbage even came from. I have plenty, it's fine, I'm not needlessly doing more.

I suggest you come back to reality before you go throwing accusations around questioning people's motivations to become a physician simply because they won't sacrifice EVERYTHING in their life, or that they don't decide to follow the same path as you.

It's also a disservice both to you guys and to me when you make blind assumptions about my application. Do you really think I haven't been doing anything the five years I have been in college? I have done just as much as you guys have, maybe more, but it wasn't things such as working as an EMT, research, or whatever. I actually do have a DO letter; a very good one, in fact. I did other things I felt were meaningful because I wanted to do them, and I think that shows much more on my part than simply following the cookie-cutter premed road.

 

[Shinken]

JKDMed, you seem to be a nice guy, but you have a tendency to get overly upset at people trying to respond to your posts. I've seen it happen many times before. You always end up accusing them of not answering your questions or of changing the subject (which may or may not be true, but that's what sucks about trying to communicate via an internet forum). Try not to take other people's opinions or advice so personally, and definitely try not to get so upset at people that -I believe- are trying to offer you sound advice.

You say you went to two DO interviews and both rejected you post-interview. That's pretty significant. I'm not criticizing your personality at all, but if a DO school interviews you it basically means that you're accepted unless they find a reason not to after talking to you in person. My advice in that respect: Call the admissions offices of the schools and ask to talk about your file and the reasons for the rejections, and how to improve your chances next time. A med school won't waste your time and their time to interview you unless they're very, very serious about you. Try to find out why they rejected you and you'll have part of the answer you seek.

Good luck, and please don't be upset at me 😉

 

[DD214_DOC]

You say you went to two DO interviews and both rejected you post-interview. That's pretty significant. I'm not criticizing your personality at all, but if a DO school interviews you it basically means that you're accepted unless they find a reason not to after talking to you in person. My advice in that respect: Call the admissions offices of the schools and ask to talk about your file and the reasons for the rejections, and how to improve your chances next time. A med school won't waste your time and their time to interview you unless they're very, very serious about you. Try to find out why they rejected you and you'll have part of the answer you seek.

I get pissed off because people are making a lot of assumptions and not really answering the question I asked. I asked about whether to take more classes or not, not if my volunteer stuff was enough or a complete evaluation of my application. (And how can you even do that without knowing any of it?)

Anyways, I have tried contacting the schools. VCOM said "the interview didn't go well" (which is all they said), which I figured. I didn't "fit" well with the school and it was my first interview.

The second interview went very well. As I said before, I got very positive feedback during the interview. I've tried to contact the school and my interviewers several times, but keep getting the run-around. I think ultimately I was just rejected because of my low PS score. It would be nice if they would tell me, though.

 

[Shinken]

I get pissed off because people are making a lot of assumptions and not really answering the question I asked.

Yup...that's SDN for you. Just try not to get too pissed at that (it happens to all of us and sometimes it's hard not to let it get to you).

The second interview went very well. As I said before, I got very positive feedback during the interview. I've tried to contact the school and my interviewers several times, but keep getting the run-around. I think ultimately I was just rejected because of my low PS score. It would be nice if they would tell me, though.

Wow, it sucks that the second school won't be direct. I doubt it was your PS score, though. Like I said, it's doubtful the school would've called you for an interview if there was anything in your file that would prevent you from being admitted.

To directly answer your question: My opinion is not to take the extra classes. Your application is obviously strong enough to get you interviews.

 

[Ypo.]

I decided just to wait. With a 22 MCAT, I don't see myself going anywhere, and none of the two schools will tell me what went wrong, so I'm gonna take some time and reapply. I wouldn't mind a break from academics anyways.

I might could get in somewhere if I threw some more apps out there, but it's not worth it to me. Next year, though, I'm going to apply to many, many places (If I can find that damned elusive science LOR!)

By the way, do I have to get completely new LORs? Only a few schools have even seen them. I really don't have time to find another DO letter.

Hi, JKD.

I was a reapplicant this year, and I just got new letters of recommendation from the same people (with one new person-who I had gotten research experience under). I saved their letters of rec from last year and they all used those as a template with a few minor changes (this made it less of a hassle to have them write letters AGAIN 🙄 ).

In response to whether or not you should take an additional science class, I say it couldn't hurt (as long as you do well in it and it doesn't end up bringing your GPA down). It sounds like your GPA will be in the acceptable range by the time you reapply (around 3.4 for DO schools I believe).

I just wanted to say I know how frustrating and hard it is not knowing if you will get accepted (and trying to figure out what you can do to improve your app-given your situation). Its hard not to get burnt out, and not to lose hope. I practically had an identity crises when i found out I didn't get accepted last year.
I didn't find out until May last year that I wasn't accepted-it came as a shock. Then I had less than a month to implement changes on my app. Don't be like me...don't wait!!! Start doing things to improve your app now. Do things that you think you will enjoy (or at least be able to endure). I think that your overall MCAT is acceptable-but maybe it would be better if it were more evenly distributed - ie- a 7,7,8 rather than a 5,7,10. (or better yet, a 7,7,10). Whoever said it is much easier to raise BS and PS is right. Obviously you have good reasoning skills-so I say give it another go (in April!!!)