Is Medical school worth it AFTER becoming a PA?

[Ryze]

Should I go back to Medical school AFTER becoming a PA?

Specialties interested in: Internal or Emergency Medicine

Here are my personal thoughts:

I don't like to disparage my profession, but the way we learned medicine was through memorization of algorithms and buzz words. We were not taught the basics of science from a molecular level working upwards. We basically skipped step 1 and went straight into step 2 clinical knowledge. Doctors can see and understand things we cannot. And make connections that we cannot. I think this is what I am craving for. To be that kind of an “expert.” To understand medicine at that level and solve complex cases. I think the funny stereotypical word for this is “mental masturbation” or “intellectually stimulating” haha. I have the personality type of being the best in whatever I do. I feel limited in that sense as a PA.

Financially, I would say I am kind of lucky. I wouldn’t normally tell this to people, but just to give you guys an idea of my situation. I actually don’t have any loans or interests at the moment after PA school. I paid out of pocket. But I was given some personal loans from close families and friends. I do have to pay them back eventually, but there is no time limit. And they would understand if I decide to pursue medical school. I would still have to take the MCAT, apply, do interviews, and then start the following year (this could take 2-3 years; here I could work as a full time PA and save money for medical school). The medical schools in my state are $100k for 4 years. Which is not bad compared to the crazy $200-400k type of other medical schools.

For family life, wouldn’t it still be possible to have? Instead of working 8 hours a day, I would be studying or going to lectures. And then spend time with my family. Especially since I am not a typical pre-med student. I will be entering with a stronger background knowledge from PA school. However I do understand that the residency years will take a huge toll on my work/life balance for 3 years. (My mom or future wife would still have an income during the 4 years of medical school).

But at the end of it all, won’t I truly be knowledgeable in a field of medicine, from basics to advanced. With the reward of earning a higher income and becoming a doctor (not what I’m going for, but still a benefit). I will be done around age 35 and can work 30 more years until 65. Won’t the money gain as a doctor in that time cover any expenses I had? And then be able to teach the next generation as well, confidently. I have a desire to teach as a professor at PA or MD/DO programs. And precept as well.

This is my current thought process, BUT if you guys think that I am delusional or crazy, please call me out on it! Give me reasons why staying as a PA from age 26 will be better for my life in the long-run. And to not make the mistake of going to medical school for 7 years, with unnecessary stress. I want to hear both sides and arguments really well.

How different is the autonomy in internal or emergency medicine between PA and MD/DO? Can I learn step 1 on my own while working as a PA, and be just as knowledgeable and happy? Or is the in-depth training of medical schools and residencies unmatched? And no amount of clinical experience as a PA can ever replace that? (I have my own thoughts of course since I have done clinical rotations, I just want to hear from what you guys think).


***Here are some more of my thoughts that I just private messaged someone:***

Thank you so much for replying, I really need guidance in my life. I am confused and don't know WHAT path is actually WORTH taking.

I love medicine. I have grown super passionate about it. I also love academia. I watch a lot of medical school vlogs and wish I went through the rigorous schooling like they did. PA school felt like a joke to me. It was mainly memorizing buzz words, without understanding the "why's".

Now, I know I can learn the why's using third party resources on my own - like sketchymedical, boards and beyond, pathoma, premade anki decks, etc. However, if I am going to do that, why not do it through medical school and get rewarded with prestige, money, and autonomy?

But that does come with its cons - such as a losing lost income as a PA, family time, and basically life. For 7 years.

I am interested in Internal Medicine (Hospitalist) or Emergency Medicine. What I want to really know is if there is a huge difference in autonomy, day-to-day job/tasks, etc. Because if it's 90% of the same job, then I am not sure if 7 years of medical school is worth it for me. I know people recommend PA to MD if you want to go into either surgery or a specialization of some sort.

Basically, is 7 years of medical school worth it for me (I am single and 26 years old; I only need the MCAT to most likely get into this DO program in my home city; this way I can be with family and friends and not miss out on life events). It seems like a fun journey to me, something that I would look forward to.

But there is this other easier, more convenient, and relaxing path - which is to remain as a PA and practice medicine. Earning a six figure salary. Living life. And also studying step 1 material with the resources I mentioned earlier.

*sigh* Do you see my dilemma here. Like what is the right path for me - in terms of happiness, life, money, etc.

If I were to redo my years of schooling, I would 100% choose medical school. But because I finished PA school and am interested in specialties that might not be that different as a doctor, is it worth it? Because I do realize I will have to go through numerous standardized examinations - MCAT, Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 3 CS, and residency boards. Also the stress of interviews, applications (both initial and for residency), research papers, etc.

Or will I always regret not going back for medical school?

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[danielblank313]

I'm just a first year DO student so I don't necessarily have any experience to compare the knowledge base, but I did want to make sure you knew that there are such programs meant for your exact situation. The only one I know, and there may be more, is LECOMs PA to DO bridge program thats accelerated at 3 years. LECOM is also a very affordable DO school so as far as the finances are involved, LECOM and other possible bridge programs could be a strong consideration for you. Other downsides of course, but that's for you to weigh.

 

[Ryze]

I'm just a first year DO student so I don't necessarily have any experience to compare the knowledge base, but I did want to make sure you knew that there are such programs meant for your exact situation. The only one I know, and there may be more, is LECOMs PA to DO bridge program thats accelerated at 3 years. LECOM is also a very affordable DO school so as far as the finances are involved, LECOM and other possible bridge programs could be a strong consideration for you. Other downsides of course, but that's for you to weigh.

Yes, I did know about this program. But I am more looking for thoughts on whether or not going back to medical school is worth it. Congrats on getting in and good luck on your DO journey!

 

[deleted367183]

I am a PGY-1 in pathology. I went to a mid-tier state school (University of Cincinnati). Medical school is ALSO a bunch of algorithms and buzzwords. You might think you get a deeper scientific understanding of stuff, and maybe there's the OCCASIONAL lecture where someone really gets into physiology, but the vast majority of your class time will be spent going over factoids for Step 1. You do well on the tests by memorizing the PowerPoint slides. If you're truly interested in a deeper knowledge, as opposed to money and prestige, I think you would be just as well-served by reading some physiology textbooks in your spare time. I am completely serious.

 

[Ryze]

I am a PGY-1 in pathology. I went to a mid-tier state school (University of Cincinnati). Medical school is ALSO a bunch of algorithms and buzzwords. You might think you get a deeper scientific understanding of stuff, and maybe there's the OCCASIONAL lecture where someone really gets into physiology, but the vast majority of your class time will be spent going over factoids for Step 1. You do well on the tests by memorizing the PowerPoint slides. If you're truly interested in a deeper knowledge, as opposed to money and prestige, I think you would be just as well-served by reading some physiology textbooks in your spare time. I am completely serious.

Appreciate the insight! This helps in my future decision! I am also now leaning on just learning the extra "why's" on my own as a working PA rather than going through 7 years of stress. I hope more people respond with their thoughts.

 

[deleted367183]

That said, it's totally reasonable to be interested in money and prestige. I would hate being the number 2 person all the time. My ego is too giant.

To add to what I said above, because many people go to med school after an undergrad science major, you might think that med school is at the level of the 400-level science classes one just finished taking. No. It is a huge amount of 200-level content. Nothing wrong with it, but maybe not as intellectually challenging as you might think. Lots and lots and LOTS of rote memorization.

 

[Dave1980]

Should I go back to Medical school AFTER becoming a PA?

I wouldn't. I don't think it makes sense professionally or financially.

You also haven't listed any of your stats. Do you think your app is strong enough to even warrant this idea?

In my experience most (not all!) people who are PAs or NPs and then want to to to med school didn't go initially because they didn't have the stats to get in.

 

[Ho0v-man]

M4 here. I’d be very reluctant to recommend this path to someone who can already make a 6 figure income. There’s a former PA in my class who’s toward the top of the class and had a pretty big leg up on most of us though. But she acknowledged this is mich

The basic science minutiae you want to know, that can be learned via third party resources like sketchy micro, pathoma, or boards and beyond. Thats basically what we all do. We just also study for class, too. But you’ll likely never retain it to the degree we do. Not because we’re all so much smarter or anything. It’s just because when we’re memorizing this stuff, we’ve basically got a loaded gun pointed at our head with six figure debt bullets in the chamber. We aren’t allowed to just pass our board exams. We’re expected to murder them.

In PA school, you can graduate at the bottom of the class and still go work in derm or cardio thoracic surgery. If we graduate at the bottom of the class, we’re just hoping to match into anything.

The constant pressure to perform both in medical school and in residency is what sets us apart from PAs and not necessarily the academic content of med school.

I say all this to convey that you won’t actually get what you’re looking for without going through this gauntlet. Whether that’s actually worth it is a personal decision you’ll have to make. I’m just some rando on the internet but I don’t think it’s worth it. The opportunity cost alone for you is close to $1 million. And that ignores the debt you’d take on.

 

[penicillinman]

There is a group on Facebook for PA/NP considering medical school. You may get some information on there too.

 

[LunaOri]

You are actually in a good position: you can work as a PA, full-time or part-time, while you study for the MCAT, volunteer, and write your applications. If you decide you love being a PA, that's great--you can quit the med school application process. If you decide you really want to be a doc, that's great--go for it!
Your reason for becoming a physician seems sound to me. Wanting to understand the pathophysiology behind the illnesses you are treating--that's what med school is all about. Sure, there are those who believe that med school is about memorizing the minutiae to try and get a good STEP1 score (and that IS what it's about, for THEM). There are also those who like learning for the sake of learning, and crave a deeper understanding. I think you'd be in that second group, and would probably enjoy medical school. Were you a top student in college? Have you done your prerequisites, and did you do well in them? Do you have professors/preceptors who will write you good letters of recommendation?

 

[YoungDrummer]

I think a good person to communicate with is primadonna. She worked as a PA-C for many years before attending a DO school. Her PA background helped her so much that when she was a first year resident, she was performing like a third year resident. She was told this by her attendings.

You might try the physician assistant forum to reach her. Someone there probably keeps in touch with her.

 

[Ryze]

Here are some more of my thoughts that I just private messaged someone:

Thank you so much for replying, I really need guidance in my life. I am confused and don't know WHAT path is actually WORTH taking.

I love medicine. I have grown super passionate about it. I also love academia. I watch a lot of medical school vlogs and wish I went through the rigorous schooling like they did. PA school felt like a joke to me. It was mainly memorizing buzz words, without understanding the "why's".

Now, I know I can learn the why's using third party resources on my own - like sketchymedical, boards and beyond, pathoma, premade anki decks, etc. However, if I am going to do that, why not do it through medical school and get rewarded with prestige, money, and autonomy?

But that does come with its cons - such as a losing lost income as a PA, family time, and basically life. For 7 years.

I am interested in Internal Medicine (Hospitalist) or Emergency Medicine. What I want to really know is if there is a huge difference in autonomy, day-to-day job/tasks, etc. Because if it's 90% of the same job, then I am not sure if 7 years of medical school is worth it for me. I know people recommend PA to MD if you want to go into either surgery or a specialization of some sort.

Basically, is 7 years of medical school worth it for me (I am single and 26 years old; I only need the MCAT to most likely get into this DO program in my home city; this way I can be with family and friends and not miss out on life events). It seems like a fun journey to me, something that I would look forward to.

But there is this other easier, more convenient, and relaxing path - which is to remain as a PA and practice medicine. Earning a six figure salary. Living life. And also studying step 1 material with the resources I mentioned earlier.

*sigh* Do you see my dilemma here. Like what is the right path for me - in terms of happiness, life, money, etc.

If I were to redo my years of schooling, I would 100% choose medical school. But because I finished PA school and am interested in specialties that might not be that different as a doctor, is it worth it? Because I do realize I will have to go through numerous standardized examinations - MCAT, Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 3 CS, and residency boards. Also the stress of interviews, applications (both initial and for residency), research papers, etc.

Or will I always regret not going back for medical school?

 

[Ryze]

You are actually in a good position: you can work as a PA, full-time or part-time, while you study for the MCAT, volunteer, and write your applications. If you decide you love being a PA, that's great--you can quit the med school application process. If you decide you really want to be a doc, that's great--go for it!
Your reason for becoming a physician seems sound to me. Wanting to understand the pathophysiology behind the illnesses you are treating--that's what med school is all about. Sure, there are those who believe that med school is about memorizing the minutiae to try and get a good STEP1 score (and that IS what it's about, for THEM). There are also those who like learning for the sake of learning, and crave a deeper understanding. I think you'd be in that second group, and would probably enjoy medical school. Were you a top student in college? Have you done your prerequisites, and did you do well in them? Do you have professors/preceptors who will write you good letters of recommendation?

Yes, all I need is to take the MCAT and most likely will be able to get into this DO program in my home city with my stats. And that's the plan! To work as a PA first while studying for the MCAT. I am hoping to get some early insight and guidance from others with this post.

 

[lingmed]

I disagree with the above comments about prior income and that medical school is just memorization of algorithms. I am a nontrad MS3 who left behind a six-figure income to start school and I don't regret that. I also think that the difference you're sensing in PA and MD/DO scope of practice is real--MD/DOs are more likely to lead research, *develop* those algorithms that people end up memorizing from slides and UTD, etc. There is a lot of practical/technical knowledge involved in becoming a doctor and no doubt that overlaps a lot with PA experience and knowledge, but there also *is* an unparalleled opportunity to think deeply and autonomously/independently about problems in the field of healthcare. It sounds to me like you want to do it. You're still really young and you have the financial resources and you are clearly thinking it through carefully.

 

[YoungDrummer]

You could also talk to the Dean at LECOM'S 3 year bridge program. He was a PA before becoming a DO. People whom have done both (PA and MD/DO) will give you a better understanding. Other than that you will just hear assumptions from Doctors about either career. For instance, I've heard doctors say that you will have a better lifestyle as a PA-C. But, it really depends on the specialty that you are working in. I know a Neurosurgical PA that has much much less free time than my primary care doctor.

 

[jhmmd]

I think the points that @LunaOri brought up are very valid. OP, you haven't shared any of your stats w/us. What is your GPA like? Stellar LORs? Have you completed the pre-requisite courses?

Maybe take a practice FL MCAT and see how you do?
Good luck.

 

[Ryze]

Thank you for everyone that gave a lot of input!! It has helped a lot in my thought process. Nothing is decided yet, but I will try to post here when I do, with my reasoning. Hopefully this has also helped others in similar situations