Is Medical School "Worth It" for Nontrads?

[melanoleuca]

One final note, how are people like this Markoff guy able to suceed in medschool while living a seperate life as a murderer? Sounds like he had a lot of free time. I know that was an off the wall one, but I had to ask it. It seems like he should have no time for all the things he was (allegedly) doing.

I think he listed it on his AMCAS application as an extracurricular activity...you know...something to make himself stand out.

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[melanoleuca]

Well, to be fair, if you are a conservative Christian, you just limited your dating pool by a LOT out there (med school or no med school). And I imagine there are relatively few conservative Christian women in med school (assuming they are desiring to become homemakers, as you assert). Generally the ppl I know who have decided to go to medical school are among the more liberal, career-oriented.

But there are plenty of us nerd-loving women out there. Plenty of us who aren't out there to look for a "good time" but ARE looking for a friend and a partner who will help us through the hard times -- and in turn we will be reliable sources of support. Yeah, a good personality helps get the conversation flowing, for sure. But if you add on the specification "conservative Christian" I mean you pretty much lost a number of otherwise eligible women.

Hey, I'm kind of a nerd...and what I lack in looks (although I am physically fit and "presentable") I make up for in humor and a certain weary cynicism that would eventually wear you out. Oh, and I now have no illusions about anything and don't need support.

Call me.

 

[NonTradMed]

Well, to be fair, if you are a conservative Christian, you just limited your dating pool by a LOT out there (med school or no med school). And I imagine there are relatively few conservative Christian women in med school (assuming they are desiring to become homemakers, as you assert). Generally the ppl I know who have decided to go to medical school are among the more liberal, career-oriented.

It is interesting the women you see in med school, isn't it? My school is pretty conservative compare to your typical college campus (we are in a conservative state) and so I do find girls who consider themselves Christians and who are generally conservative in their outlook....except with the whole being a homemaker thing.

I know of at least one girl who was outraged(!!) when she told me of some female doctors she knew who became SAHM after marriage, usually to doctors. "Can you imagine that? After all that work, they just became housewives!!". This nice conservative Catholic girl thought it was appalling smart women would stay home. I was more surprised that she was so upset by the idea. But that's the typical sentiment of all the female med students I knew, liberal, conservative, vegan and meat-lovin'.

 

[melanoleuca]

Actually people say I am kind of cool...but you know...

 

[pianola]

Hey, I'm kind of a nerd...and what I lack in looks (although I am physically fit and "presentable") I make up for in humor and a certain weary cynicism that would eventually wear you out. Oh, and I now have no illusions about anything and don't need support.

Call me.

Haha. Well... actually, I've got my own nerd that I adore.

[Certainly, my mom would prefer I settle for a "nice Greek boy" but it appears that I will be disappointing her expectations. ]

 

[pianola]

It is interesting the women you see in med school, isn't it? My school is pretty conservative compare to your typical college campus (we are in a conservative state) and so I do find girls who consider themselves Christians and who are generally conservative in their outlook....except with the whole being a homemaker thing.

I know of at least one girl who was outraged(!!) when she told me of some female doctors she knew who became SAHM after marriage, usually to doctors. "Can you imagine that? After all that work, they just became housewives!!". This nice conservative Catholic girl thought it was appalling smart women would stay home. I was more surprised that she was so upset by the idea. But that's the typical sentiment of all the female med students I knew, liberal, conservative, vegan and meat-lovin'.

Yeah, I think it's a huge problem when women turn on each other like that. I think women should certainly have the opportunity to enter the workforce, but that doesn't necessarily make it the best option for every woman.

Raising a child right takes a LOT of hard work.

 

[Nasrudin]

This thread is killer.

I feel for the conservative christian players out there. And this one here is a bending a true blue note. Man. Put some some money in that guitar case.

But in case that wasn't clear enough. Two words. Keith Richards. Can't be understood. Looks like an alien handbag. Mind completely blown. But..never sleeps alone. Medicine couldn't be more irrelevant it would seem. But to find that out the hard hard way. **** man. Can I buy you a beer.

That's rough. B/c from where I sit. The physician with sex appeal--or with homemaker-making ability--is the exception. And the rare one. I find most them well...with exception of the funny ones..."call me" ....dude....to be a gosh, uh, dorks. And I mean that you know in the nicest way...possible.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Strongly agree with this.

This made me think of one more thing. I have said that medicine isn't for those who'd rather be sailing. I've said that when I was pre-med I heard all the advice about how it's too much work if you're heart's not in it, how you should do it only if it's your true passion, and that I shrugged all that off and made excuses as to why it didn't apply to me. But maybe that's not completely accurate. It might be more accurate to say that I thought it did apply to me, but I was going to change myself into the type of person who did have a true passion for medicine. I've always been the smart-but-lazy type, and things had really been coming to a head in terms of my feeling that I wasn't living up to my full potential and that this was really hindering me in life, so I wanted a boot-camp-like experience that would force me to become a driven, ambitious hard worker, and I thought I found it in medical school. I was wrong, though. It didn't work, and I've just been feeling like a square peg in a round hole, just like I used to say about my last job.

As much as I used to hate the new-agey, self-help types, I think there's some truth in what they say: "be true to yourself." At some point, you have to recognize your own strengths and limitations, to accept what kind of person you are and live accordingly. If you're worried that that will mean you can't have some of the things you want, well, maybe that means you weren't meant to have those things. (E.g., in my own case, if you have a crush on a girl whom you think is best matched with a driven, ambitious guy, you probably weren't meant to be with her and should just accept that and move on.) For me, from where I am now, 2 years into medical school and $100k in debt, that probably means finishing med school and either entering a low-competition, laid-back specialty like psych or PM&R, or taking a job in industry. But if you haven't started med school yet, and your heart's not in it, it's best not to go in the first place.

Well, to be fair, if you are a conservative Christian, you just limited your dating pool by a LOT out there (med school or no med school). And I imagine there are relatively few conservative Christian women in med school (assuming they are desiring to become homemakers, as you assert). Generally the ppl I know who have decided to go to medical school are among the more liberal, career-oriented.

I always have to check myself when posting on this topic and remind myself that most people are going to assume that I wanted or intended to date a fellow medical student, or at least was open to the possibility. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have never thought of marrying a female doctor.

One thing I am happy about is that I moved where I did. There really are more single conservative Christian women around here than there were where I grew up. I've often thought that even if I hadn't gone to medical school, it would have been a good idea for me to move here anyway. BTW, it really isn't bad trying to meet other Christians. Most churches of any size have weekly groups for young single adults, which they hope, even if it's not stated explicitly, will serve as meet markets where people will date and get married off. There's no shortage of women; the problem for me is that I'm in this weird station in life that takes a big mental and emotional toll on you, and that has made it difficult for me to attract one.

Someone posted this in another thread:

I've always said:

One of the best pickup lines possible is "Hey, I'm a doctor."

One of the worst pickup lines possible is: "Hey, I'm a medical student."

It's true. Though medicine doesn't have quite the prestige or earning potential it once did, it does buy you some social status in the world out there. The clincher, though, is that that social status comes only with being an actual, practicing physician, not a person who's going to be a practicing physician 8 years from now. Really, being a medical student does impress some people a little bit, but not nearly enough to make you the rock star I thought it was going to make me.

 

[travelbug73]

Hey, I'm kind of a nerd...and what I lack in looks (although I am physically fit and "presentable") I make up for in humor and a certain weary cynicism that would eventually wear you out. Oh, and I now have no illusions about anything and don't need support.

Call me.

Is this offer valid only for Pianola?

I have a particular question (an awkward one) about 3rd year and residency, but I do not know what's the best place to ask it and I definitely do not want to start a new thread. So, anybody willing to answer it for me, please let me know.

This made me think of one more thing. I have said that medicine isn't for those who'd rather be sailing. I've said that when I was pre-med I heard all the advice about how it's too much work if you're heart's not in it, how you should do it only if it's your true passion, and that I shrugged all that off and made excuses as to why it didn't apply to me. But maybe that's not completely accurate. It might be more accurate to say that I thought it did apply to me, but I was going to change myself into the type of person who did have a true passion for medicine. I've always been the smart-but-lazy type, and things had really been coming to a head in terms of my feeling that I wasn't living up to my full potential and that this was really hindering me in life, so I wanted a boot-camp-like experience that would force me to become a driven, ambitious hard worker, and I thought I found it in medical school. I was wrong, though. It didn't work, and I've just been feeling like a square peg in a round hole, just like I used to say about my last job.

I'm sorry about your situation, though that might not be the emotion/reaction you are looking for and I'm extremely impressed with your candor. That's what I tell most people, go with your gut, understand your strengths and weaknesses, don't do something to impress somebody else and do not try to keep up with the Jones'. Also, being practical and realistic helps a lot. All of these probably come more with experience and age, I don't know, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[melanoleuca]

Is this offer valid only for Pianola?

No.

I have a particular question (an awkward one) about 3rd year and residency, but I do not know what's the best place to ask it and I definitely do not want to start a new thread. So, anybody willing to answer it for me, please let me know.

PM me.

 

[melanoleuca]

Oh, and I'd much rather be sailing. Let's see....one bull**** complaint after another from whiny entitled patients or rocketing over the waves on a beam reach?

 

[pianola]

I always have to check myself when posting on this topic and remind myself that most people are going to assume that I wanted or intended to date a fellow medical student, or at least was open to the possibility. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have never thought of marrying a female doctor.

Actually I wasn't assuming that at all. I kind of figured you were going for the non-career-driven types. BUT what I was trying to say is "within the medical school that is probably who you will meet". I keep hearing you're mostly gonna be spending time with your classmates and not outsiders.

I should have been clearer.

If you're shy, consider having a friend set you up on a blind date. I know most blind dates don't work out (of course, most regular meetings don't either) but it gives you at least the chance to make it clearer "who you are" to the girl without other people as distractors. Just a suggestion.

 

[slambizzle]

This once-promising thread has taken an abrupt nosedive into the realm of syndicated dating columns. Is the crux of page two seriously, "It's not worth it go to med school because it will not get you laid by conservative Christian homemakers?"

I'm in law school. The line "I'm a law student," fails spectacularly with women from all walks of life: undergrads, law students, drunk cougars. So? That doesn't mean going to law school isn't worth it. Going to law school isn't worth it b/c being a lawyer is a spirit-crushing, soul-raping exercise in mental masturbation. And more to the point, I have no interest in being with a girl who assigns romantic value to my being either a law student or a lawyer. Last I checked, vapid, money-grubbing ****** don't make stay-at-home moms. That said, if I could parlay my status as a law student into unrewarding drunken sex, you better believe I would be at the bars exploiting that **** every night.

Moving to something actually germane to the OP, I remember when I was getting ready to go to law school, every lawyer I knew told me not to go. Now, when I talk to pre-laws, I give them the same speech. It's funny how you can't really appreciate that sort of caveat until it's too late. I think this thread--the substantive portions of it, at least--is great. It's important for every non-trad to candidly asses whether they can make the tremendous sacrifices necessary to pursue medicine. As with any profession, the malcontents will always be the loudest. Medicine isn't any different. That's why there isn't a, "Going to Med School as non-trad has be sooooo worth it thread." Going to med school isn't right for everyone who thinks they want to go to med school. By the same token, it isn't wrong for everybody either. That's what each of us has to figure out.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
One final note, how are people like this Markoff guy able to suceed in medschool while living a seperate life as a murderer? Sounds like he had a lot of free time. I know that was an off the wall one, but I had to ask it. It seems like he should have no time for all the things he was (allegedly) doing.

You make the time for the things that are important to you, I guess.
In the first two years of med school you will do alright if you treat it like a full time, long houred job. Meaning if you spend 60 hours/week devoted to med school related stuff, that still leaves a decent number of hours/week to go to a casino or rob a masseuse and still get a decent night's rest. Most med students will use this time to grab meals with friends, work out, maybe watch some TV. But to each his/her own.

 

[Law2Doc]

...The line "I'm a law student," fails spectacularly with women from all walks of life: undergrads, law students, drunk cougars. ...

It's never the line, it's whose delivering it. A Brad Pitt look alike would do well with that line. Never go to a professional school expecting it to finally give you a rap that works with the ladies. The dude working at Wall Mart is hooking up more than the average med/law/dental student. Why? Because he's busting a move, not expecting women to flock to him because of his status in life.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

I knew when I decided to enter medical school that it wasn't an "old person's" game. My parents always taught me that school was ideally done before spouse, kids and mortgage. That's why I could understand some nontrad's caution about med school. For people like Panda Bear who already have a family and successful career, the price of midcareer change may be very, very high. But for some of us who have no families, and have only begun our journey into a career that we did not enjoy anyways, I think med school was a wonderful decision. I'm not saying I enjoy med school, but I hated my old job and kept on regretting that I didn't apply to med school. This wasn't regret that came and went. I think it kind of gnawed at me, and I had no good reason to tell myself that I would be better off not doing med school.

I disagree with this. I feel sorry for all of the kids in my class that are giving up their 20s for medical training, since we spent our 20s enjoying life, traveling, etc. Our parents always told us stuff like, "Travel while you're young," etc and we took that to heart. Once you have kids, that places a lot of constraints on your life. Medical school also places a lot of constraints on your life, but the two are not incompatible, in my experience (but I've not gotten to 3rd year yet.) So far, if I had things to do over again, I would do them exactly the same: First career first, kids, medical school, second career, etc.

In the end, if one has to tell nontrads whether to go for it or not, I can't say there's a good answer. From an economic standpoint, I would say don't do it if you have an established career and family to care.

It just takes planning. No one should give up a career without a rock-solid plan. Another pre-med poster said that things would work out financially better if they got into a competitive residency. This, however, is a bad plan. You don't know how competitive you will be until 2nd-3rd year (when board scores are back and you see how you are doing on rotations.) You may wind up only being competitive for primary care. If that is not OK with you, think long and hard about making the jump. But, I digress.....

I guess the only advice I can really offer is, for nontrads, doing medicine has a higher price (generally) than for the 22yo college graduate. So seriously think about it ask questions until you are certain this is what you want to do. There's no guarantee of happiness no matter what you do.

Disagree. But that's cool. I'm (I can actually also speak for my wife here too) one of those people that thinks you should enjoy your youth while you still have it, and sacrificing your youth for medical school is something that I would never have done, and something that I admire in traditional students (though many are not even aware of what they are doing, which is why I kind of feel sorry for them too.)

 

[Pemberley]

I knew when I decided to enter medical school that it wasn't an "old person's" game... I guess the only advice I can really offer is, for nontrads, doing medicine has a higher price (generally) than for the 22yo college graduate.

I disagree with this. I feel sorry for all of the kids in my class that are giving up their 20s for medical training, since we spent our 20s enjoying life, traveling, etc.

Actually, I think you're both right. I'm glad that I got to do the things that I did in my 20s -- I would have missed some things that were valuable to me if I had gone straight through.

On the flip side, I suspect that many non-trads might feel from time to time that they're "getting too old for this ****."

I don't think the feelings are incompatible.

As NonTradMed emphasized in his post, there are many, many individual factors that go into whether med school wears us down or merely wears us out. Presence of children, supportiveness of spouse, and economic stability have already been mentioned.

How good you are at medical school is also a factor. Law2Doc said earlier that all you have to do is put in a good, efficient 60 hours/week and you'll be fine -- unfortunately, this isn't really true for me, and as med school progressed, it got worse (some individual factors got involved.)

Part of this is which medical school you go to

• Whether their education style is a good match for your talents; whether the other students they recruit have the same skill-set that you do. These things will be similar to 1st order across most medical schools, but I suspect that there are exceptional schools and that even across normal schools, there is some variation.
• If you have "exceptional" factors (health, children, reserve duty, etc.), how flexible your medical school will be with letting you do unusual things to deal with them and still get through school. I'm a round peg at a school that only authorizes square holes, so I'm getting pounded plenty trying to fit. I've heard accounts of other schools that are quite different.

A large part is just how quick you are at memorizing things. Unfortunately, most people are good at memorizing things according to non-medical-school standards and have to wait until they're in the thick of medical school to find out whether that's about to change. (This wasn't true for me -- my memory's always been lousy.)

I have some friends who just need to make sure that they read the syllabus at least three times, and they pretty much know what's in it. If this is you, you're golden, kids or not.

I can read through the GI cancers three times and still have no bloody clue (and even less give-a-****) which subtype of cancer is more likely to strike the antrum of the stomach and which is more likely to be in the cardia -- or the other hundreds of similar bits of trivia that were in there. [rant] Someday my patient's life will depend on my knowing that off the top of my noggin? I've been told that it's arrogant of me to doubt that everything I am memorizing is essential, but.. well... I guess I haven't managed not to be arrogant yet. [/rant] If you're like me, worry. ​

Also, bear in mind that those of us who are posting with anti-med-school feelings are pretty ground down right now. We're venting as well as advising. Your results will vary.

 

[DrJosephKim]

At the end of the day, it really boils down to many personal decisions that impact you and your family. Life is short, but in the grand scheme of your life, will you look back and regret having spent 4-8 years pursuing something your personal ambition? Are you willing to make sacrifices to get there? At what point are those sacrifices too much?

 

[dragonfly99]

At the end of the day, it really boils down to many personal decisions that impact you and your family. Life is short, but in the grand scheme of your life, will you look back and regret having spent 4-8 years pursuing something your personal ambition? Are you willing to make sacrifices to get there? At what point are those sacrifices too much?

This is totally correct. Well, except that it's 7-11 years (counting med school+residency).

 

[student1799]

Before I discovered the seduction community last winter

Also wanted to add about the seduction community/tom leykis

What is this "seduction community" you are referring to? I've never heard of it before.

 

[dragonfly99]

Some bogus self help guy that gives guys tips on how to pick up women.
I don't know, I guess some of it might work, but I think it depends who you want to pick up. Also, do you just want to pick someone up or are you looking for a relationship? If the latter, would be better to network among your friends, and/or look around your church or find other social activities where you can mingle with single people who share your interests (sports teams, etc..). Also, there are a ton of single women in some volunteer organizations...not to stereotype, but guys tend to not do stuff for free as often.

 

[Pembleton]

I'm 35 and married. We just had a daughter. I'm dreading 3rd year. I'm barely scrapping by grade-wise. I have a feeling things will get worse before they get better. I definitely agree that medschool is a younger person's game. I also think if you are an older person it is probably best to go through school as a single person. My marriage hasn't been the best because of the financial and time constraints of school. Having a baby has totally changed my worldview. Whereas before it was tolerable to be supported by my wife, while I was going through first and second year, now I feel like I'm not doing my share, financially, for the child. This is a burden on my psyche and makes it hard to concentrate. I know I'm halfway through but it feels like an eternity, especially when you have your wife telling you how much she wants to be stay-at-home mom. Realistically, we can't do that now, but maybe when fourth year rolls around she'll go part time.

Marriage and medschool are a difficult mix. I want our marriage to work. I will need to make some sacrifices to make that a possibility. Location is very important to us. So when match time comes around, my number one priority will be location over specialty. Which is fine since I'm strongly considering peds or psych. Medschool kills relationships. I hate to say it but it's been a burden on mine.

ETA: I should have posted this in the Medschool and Kids thread. Sorry.

 

[Terpskins99]

This is such an interesting thread.

As someone that started med school at 29, I guess I'll put in my 2 cents.

Medical school was easily the most challenging experience of my life, and part of me looks back and wonders how I was able to get through it. haha, I still can't believe it. I definitely had a rough transition back to school-mode (though I feel this had more to do with my laid-back personality than it did with me being a non-trad... most other non-trad folks in my class transitioned very smoothly). The first few months were unbelievably difficult. But I adapted, I found a routine that worked and I eventually got to the point that I started doing very well.

• 
  What do I love about being in med school?
• I love sitting in lecture and learning about a disease I had never heard of before.
• I love watching House, MD and recognizing those same obscure medical ailments instantly!
• I love noodling my brain through physiology and having that eureka moment when everything just makes sense.
• I love walking in the hospital hallways with my white coat.
• I actually enjoy scribbling those bizarre hieroglyphics that summarize a patients lab results.
• I love chilling with the residents in the lounge and bitching about crazy patients, crazy attendings/nurses and life in general.
• I love saying hi to the patients and seeing the occasional smile crack on their faces.
• I love being able to answer some of the "basic" medical questions they always seem to ask.
• I love scrubbing in! haha, I do!
• I love the feeling that I'm participating in a procedure few others in this country have an opportunity to see... much less touch!
• I love feeling as if I possess some secret sacred knowledge that I will always be able to impart onto another person

• 
  What didn't I like?
• I hated sighing at all study material I had to get through
• I hated worrying about whether I passed an exam
• I hated waking up at 4:30 am for general surgery and ob/gyn
• I hated not getting enough sleep
• I hated my arms aching, my legs aching and my back aching from standing in the OR all day.
• I hated staying in the OR when everyone else in the hospital was gone but knew I still had to come in very early the next day
• I hated my one bad rotation in ophthalmology with an extremely malignant and verbally abusive attending. (Fortunately, my only bad month out of 2 years of clerkship rotations.)
• I still hate getting pimped.

So, was medical school worth it?
For me, absolutely. I wouldn't trade this experience for anything in the world. Every day, I feel privileged to be in the position I am at (even during that month I got treated like crap by the a-hole ophtho guy... who I hope rots in h-e-double-hockey-sticks ). I love being in medical school and now that I'm done with rotations (yep, I graduate May 16th) I find that I am already missing it.

 

[Autobot1981]

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

Tris -

This is my first post on SDN. Your very eloquent post happened to resonate with me, perhaps because I am in the depths of final exams now for my post-bacc pre-reqs. Unlike most of the people on this site, I have been pursuing the PA route with the intention of going into family practice. I never seriously considered Med School.

My motivation for going into medicine was actually quite noble. On one hand, I love people. I'm a compassionate person and I like helping people with their problems and blah blah blah. I have worked as a nurses aid in a nursing home which is grueling, disgusting work. I was a case worker for HUD - helping poor people with housing. I am also good at technical stuff, having worked in IT. I have done a lot of volunteer work - medical and otherwise.

I got good grades in college. I was a History major and won several awards for my writing and a student leadership award. I did well in the science and math classes I took. I am also a ceramic artist and have been featured in galleries and have won a couple awards for this too. I'm not bragging; I'm trying to illustrate why I'm probably a bad fit for the medical field.

Like many people here I thought, "I'm smart. I have been able to learn anything that has been thrown at me. I can do medicine."

Boy was I wrong.

I think about this a lot while I am studying for Orgo II on a warm sunny day, staring out the window, wishing I could be out walking by the Detroit river. I think about it when my friends stopped asking me to go out with them on Saturday nights. How I haven't even been out to see a movie in God knows how long. I think about it when my eyes glaze over as I listen to the Adderall addled overachiever in my study group explain an excruciatingly boring organic chem mechanism.

It isn't about how smart you are. Medicine is full of brilliant idiots if that makes any sense. You probably know what I'm talking about. They know a lot about medicine, but haven't the faintest clue about anything else in the world. Who can blame them? They were probably well-rounded and interesting people at one point.

Because of the serious nature of treating illness, I believe the medical field is looking for a certain type of personality. You must be a completely focused, relentlessly competitive, driven, Type A person. If you are not this way, you can probably squeeze your way through with considerable effort, but you probably won't be happy.

I also believe that medical school is designed for high achieving science students right out of undergrad. This way, they get students who are young and fresh and mutable. Let's face it, by the time you are in your late 20s you are a little more cynical and world-weary.

Trismegistus - I am guessing you are a lot like me, and if that's the case there's probably a lot of you out there. I constantly find myself suppressing any creative urges that pop up. They are completely useless to what I'm doing.

But anyway - here I go again. Writing when I'm supposed to be studying chemistry. Bottom line - if you are a non-trad, take an honest inventory of your strengths and weaknesses. If you are not right for med school, this is not a personal defect. You are probably smarter than most people, but like the rest of the human race, you value your social life, leisure, creativity, fun. Maybe you enjoy reading literature or like taking long walks on the beach. Whatever. But like Trismegistus said earlier, unless you have a true, heartfelt love of biomedical science, you will probably be unhappy in med school.

This is just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

Gotta go take a chem test.

 

[dragonfly99]

Good post autobot.
Actually, great post.
I think everyone, trad or nontrad, needs to think seriously about the time commitment involved in doing med school + residency. That, plus the financial situation most of you will be in during those 7-11 years+, can create quite a bit of stress, unless you at least somewhat enjoy the process of getting done with training. And I don't just mean taking care of patients. Lots of people like doing that, but you've got to be able to stomach sitting in lectures for up to 6-7 hours/day and then going home to memorize the stuff from the lectures. For 3rd year and residency, you've gotta be willing to drag yourself out of bed at 4:30 a.m. if need be, and stay in the hospital until 9pm or even all night, if need be. You have to be willing to take verbal abuse from some people, because some people will likely abuse you because you can (this latter part gets better as you move up the chain of command).

 

[Trismegistus4]

Actually I wasn't assuming that at all. I kind of figured you were going for the non-career-driven types. BUT what I was trying to say is "within the medical school that is probably who you will meet". I keep hearing you're mostly gonna be spending time with your classmates and not outsiders.

That probably depends highly on your school, which, come to think of it, is another good topic for this thread. What your schedule will be like the first 2 years and how you'll be able to spend your time is highly school-dependent. Some schools have mandatory attendance at lectures and tests every 2 weeks. At my school, only PBL sessions are mandatory, there are almost no scheduled activities in the afternoon, which is set aside for studying, and there are tests only about once every 12 weeks. This allowed me to have more of a life outside of medical school for the first two years than I otherwise would have had.

Of course, there are positives and negatives either way. I've often remarked that, with more frequent testing, I would have been forced to keep up more, and would probably have learned more during the basic science years and be more prepared for Step 1. The few weeks leading up to each test were always very stressful since I felt I had a lot of catching up to do, and because the life outside of medical school hasn't resulted in the #1 thing I wanted (meeting the girl of my dreams) I've questioned whether I wouldn't have been better off just studying more anyway.

This once-promising thread has taken an abrupt nosedive into the realm of syndicated dating columns. Is the crux of page two seriously, "It's not worth it go to med school because it will not get you laid by conservative Christian homemakers?"

Laugh if you must, but that is a true statement, and one which I would have been surprised and very disappointed to learn before starting medical school, so much so that it probably would have influenced my decision. I just wanted it to be out there so that other future Trismegistus4's could see it.

The line "I'm a law student," fails spectacularly with women from all walks of life: undergrads, law students, drunk cougars.

I thought nothing could fail with drunk cougars.

Never go to a professional school expecting it to finally give you a rap that works with the ladies. The dude working at Wall Mart is hooking up more than the average med/law/dental student. Why? Because he's busting a move, not expecting women to flock to him because of his status in life.

Interestingly, I recently befriended a guy who was in a similar situation to mine through another online forum. He said he went to law school because he thought it would make women like him, and, of course, it didn't. He graduated, practiced law for about a year, didn't like it, so he quit and became a teacher. Now he's become quite the ladies' man and says teaching provides more fodder for being attractive to women than law ever did.

I disagree with this. I feel sorry for all of the kids in my class that are giving up their 20s for medical training, since we spent our 20s enjoying life, traveling, etc. Our parents always told us stuff like, "Travel while you're young," etc and we took that to heart. Once you have kids, that places a lot of constraints on your life. Medical school also places a lot of constraints on your life, but the two are not incompatible, in my experience (but I've not gotten to 3rd year yet.) So far, if I had things to do over again, I would do them exactly the same: First career first, kids, medical school, second career, etc.

I don't know who you mean by "we." If it's you and your wife, then good for you. But if you're saying that nontrads in general got to enjoy their twenties, unfortunately, that's not true. I was reminded of a post I made several years ago:

1. "You have to sacrifice your 20s, the best years of your life, to med school, 80 hour weeks in residency, etc." Sacrifice them in what way? What else would I be doing? People who make this objection seem to think that everyone who is not a doctor spends their 20s living some kind of glamourous, jet-setting life replete with exotic vacations and exciting adventures. Look, I'm 27. I've spent the last 4 years working in a corporate IT job. I get up in the morning, I go to work, I come home in the evening. I get 2 weeks of vacation a year. Except for my modest exercise regimen, I pretty much spend my spare time sitting around my apartment reading or watching movies. I'm a pathetic loser, I know, and there are people my in my circumstances (like some of my coworkers) who get season tickets to sports games, go nightclubbing, etc., but that's not me. I suppose I could have spent some time backpacking around Europe or something, but I had never heard of that sort of thing being done until recently, and frankly I'd be too chicken to give up my "stable" job and attempt to live day-to-day by picking up odd jobs here and there. If I had gone to med school straight out of college, and were now in residency, I'd hardly be sacrificing much of anything.

So, we didn't all have fun in our twenties. The reasons I didn't:

1) I simply didn't know such things were possible. My whole family were the opposite of adventurers: very humdrum, homebody, unambitious types. My parents never did jack squat, and I never made friends with people who traveled a lot or took risks either. Now, looking back, I can see the possibilities and wish I'd done more, but at the time I just didn't know.

2) I had what the PUAs call oneitis: a crush on one particular girl, whom I wanted to marry, and I thought that therefore I'd better be financially responsible. Have a steady day job with benefits, sock away some savings, the usual. If I'd been spending my twenties traveling, doing odd jobs, always a hair's breadth away from homelessness, she might not see me as a good marriage prospect! Oh noes! At the time, that would have rent my entire world.

Also wanted to add about the seduction community/tom leykis: These strategies work VERY well for insecure women. The reason it's been so successful is that MANY women are insecure (some more than others....) You don't want these kinds of women any more than you'd want a woman who would be drawn to you just because you're going to be a doctor.

True, but as you discovered from your roommate's friend, the canned material like opinion openers and negs are just the first step. I understand why women are put off when they hear about stuff like that, and I too was disgusted when I first learned of the community, since I thought it was about tricking and manipulating women into giving you some cheap sex. However, even the gurus who are most known for canned material do emphasize "inner game." Anyone will tell you that the canned material is just to get you started, maybe give a little boost to your self-confidence, but eventually you have to move on to deeper things--not just faking being a fun, interesting, confident guy, but actually becoming one. Plus, this stuff has been around long enough now that some guys are beginning to apply it to long-term relationships and even report adapting it to improving their marriages.

I don't think it's that she was appalled that 'smart women stay home', but more that it sounds like "going to med school to get your MRS"

Yes, I think apart from feminist issues it should be considered quite legitimate to be concerned about this. Spots in medical school are scarce and in high demand, and supposedly there's a shortage of doctors. Without even mentioning the genders of the people involved, isn't it reasonable to question that a spot in medical school went to a person who didn't wind up using the degree, when it could have gone to someone who would have spent 30+ years practicing medicine full-time? Heck, I sometimes feel guilty that I'm taking up a spot in medical school, since I'll probably wind up going for a lifestyle specialty like anesthesiology or PM&R, when there's a supposed shortage of primary care docs.

What is this "seduction community" you are referring to? I've never heard of it before.

Ever hear a guy who's not successful with women whine "why do women say the like nice guys, but always wind up going for jerks?" The seduction community was born of an attempt to understand and deal with that problem. The Wikipedia article gives an overview, but if you really want a feel for what it's about, I'd highly recommend the book The Game by Neil Strauss. Even if you're not particularly interested in the subject matter, it's a real page-turner, a tightly-written, fascinating, and engrossing story.

I also think if you are an older person it is probably best to go through school as a single person.

Interesting that you say that, since my #1 wish for the past several years has been to be married already. I've often thought that having a wife as moral support would be an enormous encouragement to help me get through this. I haven't thought much about the strain it would put on a marriage.

Part of my rationale for doing this was that I had an uncle who did much the same thing--go back to school as a premed in his late twenties and become a doctor, and it seemed to work out for him and his family. The difference is, though, that he and my aunt had already been married for several years when he went back to school, so their marriage was already, so to speak, cemented, and they were both committed to getting him through medical school for the long-term good of their family. I, on the other hand, set out to do this as a single guy, hoping I'd be able to get married before medical school (actually, originally the hope was before even the post-bacc since I had a girlfriend at the time) or maybe summer between 1st and 2nd year. Now, here I am, still no GF, and about to plunge into the tunnel of 3rd year.

Take heed, people who are thinking that doing this will help with their love lives. The primary thing it's going to do is suck up your time, which hinders, not helps, your ability to meet and attract romantic interests.

Tris -

This is my first post on SDN. Your very eloquent post happened to resonate with me, perhaps because I am in the depths of final exams now for my post-bacc pre-reqs. Unlike most of the people on this site, I have been pursuing the PA route with the intention of going into family practice. I never seriously considered Med School.

I wish I'd thought more about other options. A few months ago I shadowed an anesthesiology resident. He said, "you know, if you had known at the beginning that you wanted to do anesthesia, you could have become an anesthesia assistant. They have a master's program for that here. They make about $125k a year." Imagine that! A 2-year master's program, no residency, and boom, a job making $125k. AA's don't exist in every state, but if you're willing to live in a state where they do... talk about a way to finance your other interests and have a life outside of the hospital.

Like many people here I thought, "I'm smart. I have been able to learn anything that has been thrown at me. I can do medicine."

Boy was I wrong.

This is another thing people need to seriously consider. Just because you're smart enough to succeed at medical school doesn't mean you should do it. I got a 40 on the MCAT but am much more interested in literature, philosophy, politics, and music than I am in biomedical science. Even within the sciences, I'm more interested in the abstract, mathematical sciences like physics than I am in biology.

People on SDN are always saying "if you're smart enough to get into medical school, you're smart enough to succeed at other things as well." I heard that plenty of times as a pre-med, I just refused to believe it. I've become much more convinced of it over the past 2 years. Who's to say I couldn't have succeeded as a writer? I never even tried--just thought, "nah, that's too risky, better just go into medicine, where I'll have a steady day job with a guaranteed income."

Because of the serious nature of treating illness, I believe the medical field is looking for a certain type of personality. You must be a completely focused, relentlessly competitive, driven, Type A person. If you are not this way, you can probably squeeze your way through with considerable effort, but you probably won't be happy.

I can't count the number of times in medical school that I've heard someone, whether a professor, an advisor, or a fellow medical student, refer to all medical students as "type A overachievers," say something like "if we weren't that way we wouldn't have wound up here in the first place," and I've sat there in silence thinking, "uh, no." Nothing makes me feel like I don't belong in medicine more than that. Again, before coming to medical school, I thought I was going to transform myself into that kind of person, but it just didn't happen.

 

[Terpskins99]

Heheh, I had only gotten through about half of the posts when I added my 2 cents. Now that I've gotten through everything... wow, am I alone here? Or am I in denial?

The weird thing with me is, I probably went into medical school for all of the wrong reasons. Both parents are physicians, never shadowed a physician, never volunteered in a hospital, figured medicine would make for a more secure life than computer science/benchside labwork (did work in both, hated them both). If I didn't get into med school by the time I reached 30, I would go to law school instead (even took the LSAT's and scored a 154 without really studying... figured I'd crack 160 if I really wanted to make a serious run at it). Still considering getting that law degree though, but am having a hard time justifying the investment.

 

[flip26]

Take heed, people who are thinking that doing this will help with their love lives. The primary thing it's going to do is suck up your time, which hinders, not helps, your ability to meet and attract romantic interests.

Anybody who believes this, and it was or is the chief motivation to attend medical school, is an idiot.

Your infatuation with the PUA "community" and such is very sleazy.

 

[scurred09]

I'm questionable in the looks department but what I lack in looks, I make up for it in size.

Ladies, call us.

Hey, I'm kind of a nerd...and what I lack in looks (although I am physically fit and "presentable") I make up for in humor and a certain weary cynicism that would eventually wear you out. Oh, and I now have no illusions about anything and don't need support.

Call me.

 

[scurred09]

I don't agree with everything that Tom Leykis says but I do think that most women are attracted to money. Regardless whether she is secure or insecure, most women want men who are financially stable. There are plenty of Sam Cassell out there who are married to the Halle Berry, Carmen Electra, etc. The only people that complained about money is not everything is the people that have no money.

A lot of good stuff in here from you and Atomi, and I wanted to add that for most people a charming person (regardless of sex or the nature of the conversation) is a person who makes the OTHER person feel interesting, exciting, high value...in other words be a better listener even when you'd prefer to add something...think of it this way, you already know what you're going to say...but you can learn so much from other people since you can't predict what they will say.

Also wanted to add about the seduction community/tom leykis: These strategies work VERY well for insecure women. The reason it's been so successful is that MANY women are insecure (some more than others....) You don't want these kinds of women any more than you'd want a woman who would be drawn to you just because you're going to be a doctor.

I was hanging out with a few friends of a guy friend at a party last year and one of them said to me (with nothing prior) "Nice nails, I bet you did that yourself" (or something like that) I looked at him like he he had three heads--since when do guys give a f about women's nails??? It was only a few months later when my best friend sent me a funny email about the "negs" the seduction community advocates using to "bring down" girls who seem self-assured or cute or whatever that I realized what he was trying to do

On the other hand my old roommate's friend was a devout follower of the pick up artist techniques, and after he explained some of them to me, I have to say they do have some great advice about exuding confidence and nonchalance. CONFIDENCE above anything else--salary, looks, what you're saying--is what attracts girls, and you have to add to it a little dose of silly. I think this is what they mean when they say 'cocky and funny' (I read askmen.com sometimes when I can't sleep bc it's amusing ). Confidence without joking around comes off as arrogant--not cool. Being confident enough to say something ridiculous, without seeming like you're trying too hard, and maybe being a little self-deprecating--that's what it's all about.

$.02

 

[Autobot1981]

I wish I'd thought more about other options. A few months ago I shadowed an anesthesiology resident. He said, "you know, if you had known at the beginning that you wanted to do anesthesia, you could have become an anesthesia assistant. They have a master's program for that here. They make about $125k a year." Imagine that! A 2-year master's program, no residency, and boom, a job making $125k. AA's don't exist in every state, but if you're willing to live in a state where they do... talk about a way to finance your other interests and have a life outside of the hospital.

Seriously - I know its cliche but its never too late to do anything. You should read Critical Care by Richard Dooling.

This is another thing people need to seriously consider. Just because you're smart enough to succeed at medical school doesn't mean you should do it. I got a 40 on the MCAT but am much more interested in literature, philosophy, politics, and music than I am in biomedical science. Even within the sciences, I'm more interested in the abstract, mathematical sciences like physics than I am in biology.

I think at one time doctors had to be well rounded but medicine is so high tech and specialized its become more like engineering. I think the human body is fascinating but I don't think I am good at rote memory. Its just the way my brain works. I could probably make it through PA school but I don't know if its worth it.

People on SDN are always saying "if you're smart enough to get into medical school, you're smart enough to succeed at other things as well." I heard that plenty of times as a pre-med, I just refused to believe it. I've become much more convinced of it over the past 2 years. Who's to say I couldn't have succeeded as a writer? I never even tried--just thought, "nah, that's too risky, better just go into medicine, where I'll have a steady day job with a guaranteed income."

Yeah I wish I knew more about business. But I always have to remind myself that a lot of people run successful small businesses without and MBA or any formal training at all.

I can't count the number of times in medical school that I've heard someone, whether a professor, an advisor, or a fellow medical student, refer to all medical students as "type A overachievers," say something like "if we weren't that way we wouldn't have wound up here in the first place," and I've sat there in silence thinking, "uh, no." Nothing makes me feel like I don't belong in medicine more than that. Again, before coming to medical school, I thought I was going to transform myself into that kind of person, but it just didn't happen.

Exactly. I am starting to realize this. Nurses are more fun than doctors anyway

I might have to downgrade to nursing or a tech. If American Idol has taught me anything its if you don't make the cut you don't go to Hollywood. I can put my IT skills and patient care skills to use as a rad tech.

 

[Trismegistus4]

And more to the point, I have no interest in being with a girl who assigns romantic value to my being either a law student or a lawyer. Last I checked, vapid, money-grubbing ****** don't make stay-at-home moms.

Not to belabor the point, but several people in this thread have said something like the above ("you don't want a girl who'd like you just because you're a doctor anyway") and I had planned on responding to it in my previous post but forgot. Just to be clear: the issue is not that I wanted or expected girls to want me for my money. It's that I had thought these girls would admire, respect, and genuinely be attracted to guys who were working towards the traditional "provider" role because of their alleged desire to be stay-at-home moms, and that the "provider" image of a doctor would be enhanced in their minds by the fact that it's generally considered a very respectable thing to do, what with saving lives and all that. I didn't think their attitudes would be "ooooh, he's going to be a doctor, if I married him I could live in a million dollar house and drive a BMW and wear a diamond tennis bracelet!" but rather simply "ooooh, he's going to be a doctor--he's so dreamy!"

Your infatuation with the PUA "community" and such is very sleazy.

Developing good social skills isn't sleazy any more than showering daily, using deodorant, and wearing nice clothes is sleazy.

 

[pianola]

Not to belabor the point, but several people in this thread have said something like the above ("you don't want a girl who'd like you just because you're a doctor anyway") and I had planned on responding to it in my previous post but forgot. Just to be clear: the issue is not that I wanted or expected girls to want me for my money. It's that I had thought these girls would admire, respect, and genuinely be attracted to guys who were working towards the traditional "provider" role because of their alleged desire to be stay-at-home moms, and that the "provider" image of a doctor would be enhanced in their minds by the fact that it's generally considered a very respectable thing to do, what with saving lives and all that. I didn't think their attitudes would be "ooooh, he's going to be a doctor, if I married him I could live in a million dollar house and drive a BMW and wear a diamond tennis bracelet!" but rather simply "ooooh, he's going to be a doctor--he's so dreamy!"

Yeah I think that's totally fair. I didn't go into this career looking for a spouse who was gonna be totally career-driven, either.

The odds of that working out would have been slim (seeing as I want a family and will need considerable help in that arena if I'm playing doctor and mom at the same time.)

 

[Pemberley]

What do you think about me splitting your posts and the others on the same topic into their own thread about whether med school is "worth it" for nontrads? Then we can add it to the sticky as a reference, and it won't hijack the OP's thread. If other people have thoughts about this idea, feel free to comment also.

Suggestion -- the sticky-thread idea sounded like a good one to me, but perhaps our fearless leader ought to consider "weeding out" the dating advice posts... leave the "why I'm no longer sure this was a good idea" posts, and leave the lesson learned (that expected marital bliss was probably not a good factor for deciding whether to go to medical school) -- but we can all give the fellow dating advice elsewhere.

At the end of the day, it really boils down to many personal decisions that impact you and your family. Life is short, but in the grand scheme of your life, will you look back and regret having spent 4-8 years pursuing something your personal ambition? Are you willing to make sacrifices to get there? At what point are those sacrifices too much?

This is undoubtedly true as far as it goes... I suspect that what would really help to know is: What do you understand now about the advantages and sacrifices (from the non-trad perspective) that you didn't understand when making the decision to go to medical school? Or what do you appreciate now that you knew in a theoretical sense but didn't really get at that point?

 

[QofQuimica]

Suggestion -- the sticky-thread idea sounded like a good one to me, but perhaps our fearless leader ought to consider "weeding out" the dating advice posts... leave the "why I'm no longer sure this was a good idea" posts, and leave the lesson learned (that expected marital bliss was probably not a good factor for deciding whether to go to medical school) -- but we can all give the fellow dating advice elsewhere.

I can remove those posts if you folks want them gone. But we do eventually reach a point where the threads begin to get absurd if I continue to prune and split them. For example, I had to summarize several of panda's posts from the previous thread to start this thread because other people had quoted them. Otherwise, the subsequent discussion would not have made sense. Also, the OP of the original thread was asking for personal advice as to whether she should keep trying to get into med school, and her thread was hijacked into a general discussion of whether going to med school is worth it at all. In contrast, I don't think Tri is asking for dating advice; other people just spontaneously started offering it to him.

Threads always tend to twist and turn on various tangents, but as long as we don't do that at the expense of an OP who is asking for personal advice, I'm inclined to leave well enough alone. I also thought the dating posts were pretty interesting; I had never heard of that seduction community thing either. That being said, I'm willing to go with what the majority wants here.

 

[Pemberley]

I had never heard of that seduction community thing either.

True enough -- learned something new there myself.

 

[jabreal00]

As a nontrad student trying to get into medical school, there are unique obstacles that must be thought through. I went to medical school straight out of undergrad. It was a very tough four years. Would I want to do it again, no. However, I love being a doctor. It's like a Navy Seal. I am sure they love their job but would hate to go through seal training again.

I am one year out of residency and working as staff. I couldn't see myself doing anything else. However, I don't know if I would be able to or want to start from scratch as a 30 something year old in medical school. Medical school was tough. Residency was grueling. It could be 10+ years before one starts practicing as an independent provider (after medical school and residency) making a decent amount of money. I definitely think there's a shelf-life. If one enters in their 30s and finishes in their 40s. I don't know if it's worth it, especially if one has a family (wife and/or kids).

 

[Terpskins99]

As a nontrad student trying to get into medical school, there are unique obstacles that must be thought through. I went to medical school straight out of undergrad. It was a very tough four years. Would I want to do it again, no. However, I love being a doctor. It's like a Navy Seal. I am sure they love their job but would hate to go through seal training again.

hahahahaha... no its not.

 

[gd152]

Before I discovered the seduction community last winter,

The seduction community is what it is. I think it's fair to say that I've read a large majority of what's out there. The problem is that most everything is painted with the picture that all women are basically the same. And while this is true in some aspects, it is not completely true. Women are brought up to believe different things and as a result have different goals in life. You can't paint concept that with your standard evolutionary biology seduction community paintbrush. Brains can be programmed to fight biological instincts. And so you can't group everybody in the same bucket based on what "biology says".

There are quite a few women who indeed do limit their choice of male based on what he does in life because they want to raise a good family. But you're not going to hear this in the seduction community. Nor are you going to find that this is the majority of women nowadays. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I exclusively date these types of girls because any other girl just isn't my type. After all, I was raised the same way.

 

[sirius08]

As a nontrad student trying to get into medical school, there are unique obstacles that must be thought through. I went to medical school straight out of undergrad. It was a very tough four years. Would I want to do it again, no. However, I love being a doctor. It's like a Navy Seal. I am sure they love their job but would hate to go through seal training again.

I am one year out of residency and working as staff. I couldn't see myself doing anything else. However, I don't know if I would be able to or want to start from scratch as a 30 something year old in medical school. Medical school was tough. Residency was grueling. It could be 10+ years before one starts practicing as an independent provider (after medical school and residency) making a decent amount of money. I definitely think there's a shelf-life. If one enters in their 30s and finishes in their 40s. I don't know if it's worth it, especially if one has a family (wife and/or kids).

Hey jabreal00, I found this post thought-provoking, so I looked through some of your other posts. Are you in military medicine? If so, how do you think that your training may have influenced your impressions about all of this?

 

[jinx520]

Speaking for myself, I happen to think that all the warnings from those who have already gone through it all serve a good purpose. I really do think long and hard about how old I'll be when I'm finally ready to practice, how it will impact my kids, and will it all be worth it (knowing beforehand that there will be long periods of abject misery that I will not truly appreciate until I've been through it.) But I always look at the alternative of NOT going to med school, and for my personal circumstances it is really not an option for me to give up the dream before I start. It's a decision that each of us needs to make for ourselves, but I'd like to thank all of the people who've gone through it all for giving us a more realistic picture of what we are going to be getting into.

As for the side discussion re: the seduction/pick up artist community:

Ladies, would any of you swoon if this guy smoothly gave you a "neg" such as "nice nails--did you do them yourself?"

Gentlemen, would you even WANT a woman who would swoon at this guy?

I'd take funny and geeky over "smooth" any day. I'd even take a slight beer gut and a receding hairline on a smart, funny, slightly geeky guy over Mystery and his Method.

 

[Trismegistus4]

In contrast, I don't think Tri is asking for dating advice; other people just spontaneously started offering it to him.

Yeah, notice how I didn't even bother responding to the posts suggesting that I do some volunteering or get friends to set me up on a blind date or whatever.

That being said, I'm willing to go with what the majority wants here.

I'd leave the thread the way it is up to this point, but as tempting as it is to respond further, I don't think it needs any more discussion of the seduction community. If anyone wants to discuss that further, I suggest they start a thread in Sociopolitical Issues, or maybe the Single Students or All Students forums, or PM me.

 

[Code Brown]

Started med school at 30. Best decision I ever made. You have to do something till you're 75 or so anyways, so even though I'll be done with residency at 38, I'll still have another 37 years left. Probably won't be practicing full time till then, but what's to keep me from teaching or consulting, or being on some medical board, or certification board, or something to that affect in my twilight years until I want to hang it up. My personal cut-off would be starting around 45. Just an opinion.

 

[scurred09]

I'm smart and funny. Here's the icing on the cake; I also have receding hairline Call me *wink*

Speaking for myself, I happen to think that all the warnings from those who have already gone through it all serve a good purpose. I really do think long and hard about how old I'll be when I'm finally ready to practice, how it will impact my kids, and will it all be worth it (knowing beforehand that there will be long periods of abject misery that I will not truly appreciate until I've been through it.) But I always look at the alternative of NOT going to med school, and for my personal circumstances it is really not an option for me to give up the dream before I start. It's a decision that each of us needs to make for ourselves, but I'd like to thank all of the people who've gone through it all for giving us a more realistic picture of what we are going to be getting into.

As for the side discussion re: the seduction/pick up artist community:

Ladies, would any of you swoon if this guy smoothly gave you a "neg" such as "nice nails--did you do them yourself?"

Gentlemen, would you even WANT a woman who would swoon at this guy?

I'd take funny and geeky over "smooth" any day. I'd even take a slight beer gut and a receding hairline on a smart, funny, slightly geeky guy over Mystery and his Method.

 

[scurred09]

I think it's pre-mature to think that you starting medical school at 30 is the best decision you had ever made considering the fact that you had just started medical school? Just a thought. However, I do agree that at 38 you will still have to work to stay alive.

Started med school at 30. Best decision I ever made. You have to do something till you're 75 or so anyways, so even though I'll be done with residency at 38, I'll still have another 37 years left. Probably won't be practicing full time till then, but what's to keep me from teaching or consulting, or being on some medical board, or certification board, or something to that affect in my twilight years until I want to hang it up. My personal cut-off would be starting around 45. Just an opinion.

 

[captmav]

I find myself in the same situation you were in just a year ago. I've decided to leave the practice of litigation, bankruptcy and commercial real estate) for medical school. I'm studying for the MCAT this summer and on my way to applying to medical schools this year.

Any advice?

Thanks!

 

[bigpharmD]

I think it's pre-mature to think that you starting medical school at 30 is the best decision you had ever made considering the fact that you had just started medical school? Just a thought. However, I do agree that at 38 you will still have to work to stay alive.

I would rather be retired playing golf at 75 not paying off student loans...

 

[sunny1]

HOWEVER (and here's where I get back to the original poster), if I had children already, I would not be considering even for a single moment staying where I am. Whoever brought up "emotional capital" ought to be commended. One doesn't have to be a devotee of stay-at-home-parenthood to think that parents (of either gender) pay a horrible price to stay on this merry-go-round.

Occasionally I have to make a conscious decision to remember that, with the best husband on the planet, I would indeed still be luckier than the rest of my classmates even if I failed out tomorrow. That I could ever lose sight of that fact even for a second says something about medical school (and, yes, about me... I'm working on it ). To the mom who started this thread: not getting admitted to medical school may have just saved you and your family a lot of heartache, debt, anxiety, and self-doubt.

This is what scares me. On the one hand, OP doesn't have children....so I have to consider that. But she is a nontrad medical student. I want my daughter to be proud of me and what I achieve professionally. I don't want to feel like I gave up on my goals. But I also want to be a good mom...and I like being lazy sometimes! I've been to mommd.com and even there you see mixed responses about whether or not they'd do it all over again. Sigh...

 

[Code Brown]

I think it's pre-mature to think that you starting medical school at 30 is the best decision you had ever made considering the fact that you had just started medical school? Just a thought. However, I do agree that at 38 you will still have to work to stay alive.

I start residency in two months, so no, it's not premature. Started medical school 4 years ago. Just adding my two cents as someone who has actually gone through the process.

 

[CogitoA1]

A few thoughts from an attorney who has not gone to medical school, but is considering it:

Any reasonably intense profession will require very long hours and near total dedication. That's just life. I read some of these posts bemoaning the lack of time for writing and reading, for sailing and movie-watching, and I laugh. You think you're going to have that kind of time in other professions with high rewards, complex work, and responsibility?

Look, you'll have some time for outside interests, and you'll have time for family. You'll just have a lot less of it. You'll have to get more disciplined and more organized. That's all. Adapt and overcome. Waste less time, and use what time you have more efficiently. Plan more bonding activities, be a better partner and listener, or a better father or mother. Yeah, you won't be able to spend as much time starting time-consuming hobbies that you never really pursue over the long-term anyway. But if you've got a fulfilling career, then the sudden decline in your recreational drawing abilities will be worth it.

I can't speak to the demands of medical school, or residency. But I can speak to the demands of alternative professional careers. Long hours and dedication are the norm. Strategies for adaptation will be the same.