Is MOCA certification mandatory?

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What are the repercussions of not participating, if fully board-certified?
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your board certification is time limited if your initial certification was after a certain date (mid 90s? early 2000s? I can't recall when). So if you don't do MOCA, you will eventually not be board certified.
 
MOCA certification policies differ between time-limited and non-time limited certification, differentiating physicians into two groups depending on whether they were certified before or after the year 2000. Physicians who received ABA certification in or after 2000 are automatically enrolled in the MOCA program and allowed 10 years to complete all requirements. Those who received certification before 2000 are grandfathered in and participation in MOCA is voluntary
 
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Agree with above. I would add:

If your initial certification is after 2000, AND you don't jump through the MOCA hoops and let your certification expire:

-You may or may not lose your staff privileges.
-Your employer may or may not have a problem with it and not renew you.
-You may or may not have great difficulty changing jobs and getting privileges at a new Institution.
-You may or may not have trouble with some private payors.

If your initial certification was before 2000 and you don't do MOCA:

All of the above are far less likely but not impossible. Changing jobs and moving to another area and getting staff privileges would be the one that I would be most concerned about.
 
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anbuitachi said:
but are moca minute questions REQUIRED? i thought they are just for 10 CME if you do them all?
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You only get the CME if you pay the tax to the ASA.

The ABA proudly states that they don't profit from the sale of CME credits, and if you "opt in" to get the CME credit, it's "free" to ASA members. If you're not an ASA member it's an extra $160 fee.

I quit giving money to the ASA several years ago. I still pay the protection money to the ABA because for now it's still the path of least resistance to maintain certification, which I need. I'm not quite ready to give the ABA the finger too and move over to NBPAS.
 
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pgg said:
You only get the CME if you pay the tax to the ASA.

The ABA proudly states that they don't profit from the sale of CME credits, and if you "opt in" to get the CME credit, it's "free" to ASA members. If you're not an ASA member it's an extra $160 fee.

I quit giving money to the ASA several years ago. I still pay the protection money to the ABA because for now it's still the path of least resistance to maintain certification, which I need. I'm not quite ready to give the ABA the finger too and move over to NBPAS.
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The ASA makes a fortune from CME sales. Much of which goes for MOCA/ABA requirements. The analogy is Tony Soprano (the ASA) doing Phil Leotardo (the ABA) a favor for something in return.
 
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anbuitachi said:
I'm asking cause I don't want to do 100 questions for 10 credits
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I don't understand the confusion. If you want to participate in MOCA you need to do the MOCA stuff. MOCA Minute questions are part of MOCA. If you don't do them, ABA won't list you as "participating in MOCA" and won't renew your board certification when your current cert expires.

If you don't want to do the questions, your options are to let your ABA cert expire and/or go to NBPAS and hope that the places you work currently and in the future will accept NBPAS.
 
pgg said:
I don't understand the confusion. If you want to participate in MOCA you need to do the MOCA stuff. MOCA Minute questions are part of MOCA. If you don't do them, ABA won't list you as "participating in MOCA" and won't renew your board certification when your current cert expires.

If you don't want to do the questions, your options are to let your ABA cert expire and/or go to NBPAS and hope that the places you work currently and in the future will accept NBPAS.
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yea thats what i was asking. if its required for moca lol
 
i just looked it up

To fulfill this requirement, answer 120 MOCA Minute questions per year by 11:59 p.m. EST on Dec. 31 and maintain a p-value of ≥ 0.10.


● You’re limited to 30 questions per calendar quarter

● You cannot answer more than 30 questions per day

● Any unanswered questions at the end of the year will be considered incorrect and will negatively impact your performance (MDT p-value)

so basically if you dont do some of it it will be marked as incorrect.

i wonder how many not correct you can get
 
Do you need to be an ASA member to do MOCA and Earn CME?

I passed boards last year. I did not renew my ASA membership this year. I completed 30 MOCA minutes quesrions under the ABA website this year. It is not showing I earned 2.5 CME credits.
 
TouchofVersed said:
Do you need to be an ASA member to do MOCA and Earn CME?

I passed boards last year. I did not renew my ASA membership this year. I completed 30 MOCA minutes quesrions under the ABA website this year. It is not showing I earned 2.5 CME credits.
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If you're not an ASA member, you can get the MOCA Minute CME credit if you pay $160 to ASA.
 
Don't give into the MOCA racket.

After ten years, your personal reputation will be more valuable than anything else. NBPAS is superior in every way.

Some poor slobs will have to pay the MOCA extortion (and that's all it is) because they absolutely have to work in a particular hospital that absolutely demands it. I understand your fear and anxiety.

But the farther I get away from hospitals (and the more money I make, and the sounder I sleep), the more confident I am remarking that only chumps work in hospitals. Let the CRNAs have the Medicare and Medicaid cases.
 
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Big Swinging Doc said:
Don't give into the MOCA racket.

After ten years, your personal reputation will be more valuable than anything else. NBPAS is superior in every way.

Some poor slobs will have to pay the MOCA extortion (and that's all it is) because they absolutely have to work in a particular hospital that absolutely demands it. I understand your fear and anxiety.

But the farther I get away from hospitals (and the more money I make, and the sounder I sleep), the more confident I am remarking that only chumps work in hospitals. Let the CRNAs have the Medicare and Medicaid cases.
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Eh I hear about some people doing outpatient only stuff and it's very hit or miss. Lot of driving around
 
Big Swinging Doc said:
Don't give into the MOCA racket.

After ten years, your personal reputation will be more valuable than anything else. NBPAS is superior in every way.
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we couldn't hire you if we wanted if you were not ABA board certified, your reputation counts for nothing
 
anbuitachi said:
yea thats what i was asking. if its required for moca lol
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the MOCA minute questions replaced the every 10 year recertification written exam. So instead of taking an exam every 10 years, you do a bunch of questions every couple months. Personally I find this much more palatable.
 
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Mman said:
the MOCA minute questions replaced the every 10 year recertification written exam. So instead of taking an exam every 10 years, you do a bunch of questions every couple months. Personally I find this much more palatable.
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Agreed. I did multiple thousands of questions every year in preparation for the ITEs. 120 questions/4 quarters is nothing in comparison. The stakes are lower as well, IMO.
 
Mman said:
the MOCA minute questions replaced the every 10 year recertification written exam. So instead of taking an exam every 10 years, you do a bunch of questions every couple months. Personally I find this much more palatable.
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Agreed. In order of my preference, it'd be

1) No questions at all
2) 30 questions online via app every 3 months
3) ...
...
17) A q10year recert exam at a testing center

I'll concede that the ABA deserves some credit for making MOCA less painful than it was.

I'm just tired of the soul and cashsucking feedback loop that exists between the ASA and the ABA. The ASA offers essentially nothing of value to me, and may actually be edging onto the AMA's turf by actively causing harm. And after the initial certification process, the best thing I can say about the ABA is that it lets me buy rent a permission slip that lets me work.
 
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I just found out a new one. ASA won't let you become a member of the society without forcing the state component (and membership $) on you. Shameful.
 
POW16 said:
I just found out a new one. ASA won't let you become a member of the society without forcing the state component (and membership $) on you. Shameful.
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Not cool. Also, not uncommon.
 
If they want to make a recertification process then make it for everyone. Don't Grandfather old anesthesiologists. It is B.S. They might have clinical skills but their knowledge base which is tested in MOCA is more likely to be lacking.
 
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coffeebythelake said:
If they want to make a recertification process then make it for everyone. Don't Grandfather old anesthesiologists. It is B.S. They might have clinical skills but their knowledge base which is tested in MOCA is more likely to be lacking.
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this was a hill to die on 25 years ago, but that ship left port a long time ago. Back then you were told you were board certified forever. I'm assuming there was some politicking going on to shift the burden of recertification to the newbies that weren't yet in the system, rather than get everyone agree to it being retroactive.
 
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Mman said:
this was a hill to die on 25 years ago, but that ship left port a long time ago. Back then you were told you were board certified forever. I'm assuming there was some politicking going on to shift the burden of recertification to the newbies that weren't yet in the system, rather than get everyone agree to it being retroactive.
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Yeah this is B.S. and basically a tax on newer anesthesiologists
 
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coffeebythelake said:
Yeah this is B.S. and basically a tax on newer anesthesiologists
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Also fear of push back. Imagine 10,000 plus anesthesiologists publicly lobbying ASA leadership to sue the ABA on their behalf for breach of contract. The animosity that would be generated when they declined. It was simpler to play the long game.
 
I just suck it up and do it. I recertified for another 10 years this year and probably have 10 more years left. It’s the cost of doing business unfortunately
 
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I think they should at least send us a t-shirt for that $210 a year.
 
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ProwlerturnGas said:
I just suck it up and do it. I recertified for another 10 years this year and probably have 10 more years left. It’s the cost of doing business unfortunately
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I don't mind it too much. I think the idea of recertification is valid, though I do not know the ideal way to go about it. There should be some requirement to continue your education over a 30-40 year career.
 
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Mman said:
I don't mind it too much. I think the idea of recertification is valid, though I do not know the ideal way to go about it. There should be some requirement to continue your education over a 30-40 year career.
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State medical boards usually require 25hrs CME/year to renew a license. Thankfully CME can be done for free nowadays. MOCA should be free too. If it was, I would do some MOCA between wordle, quordle, and catching up on the news which are all also free nowadays.
 
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nimbus said:
State medical boards usually require 25hrs CME/year to renew a license. Thankfully CME can be done for free nowadays. MOCA should be free too. If it was, I would do some MOCA between wordle, quordle, and catching up on the news which are all also free nowadays.
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my only qualm with that is that CME is a joke. It barely requires a pulse to obtain CME these days. A janitor would qualify.
 
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Mman said:
my only qualm with that is that CME is a joke. It barely requires a pulse to obtain CME these days. A janitor would qualify.
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That is true. “Read” an article, click a couple survey questions, then get credit.
 
Mman said:
my only qualm with that is that CME is a joke. It barely requires a pulse to obtain CME these days. A janitor would qualify.
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If it's that much of a joke then it shouldn't be part of MOCA anyway. Just have the MOCA minute q's only
 
ProwlerturnGas said:
I just suck it up and do it. I recertified for another 10 years this year and probably have 10 more years left. It’s the cost of doing business unfortunately
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It’s like an anti-vaxxer getting vaxxed in order to keep working. But at least the vax is free.
 
Dr. Rude said:
Also fear of push back. Imagine 10,000 plus anesthesiologists publicly lobbying ASA leadership to sue the ABA on their behalf for breach of contract. The animosity that would be generated when they declined. It was simpler to play the long game.
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The ABFM didn't offer any grandfathering when we started having to do MOC and if there were lawsuits that clearly didn't work since no one is permanently certified.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
The ABFM didn't offer any grandfathering when we started having to do MOC and if there were lawsuits that clearly didn't work since no one is permanently certified.
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Kinda surprised.
 
vector2 said:
Same, I thought every specialty board made 2000 the hard stop on grandfathering
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I don't know if we're the only ones that didn't make that an option, but I think it was a good move. I would be infinitely more angry if a large subset of FPs didn't have to do MOC while I did.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I don't know if we're the only ones that didn't make that an option, but I think it was a good move. I would be infinitely more angry if a large subset of FPs didn't have to do MOC while I did.
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The anger of a small powerless subset (new and future grads) is not something most mid career and late career types care about.
 
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My initial certification will be valid for a couple more years. The MOCA Minute questions are pretty well done. I learn quite a bit from the discussion, even on questions I get right. Not all questions are good, but a good majority if them are.
 
When does moca need to be started after initial certification?
 
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