is the PCAT a form of financial discrimination?

[seattle1013]

There are ways for low income students to compensate for college needs such as tuition, books and cost of living through scholorships and state needs grants, but the PCAT may be a deciding factor in pharmacy schools, hurting low income applicants. The study courses for PCAT are rediculously priced and often the only students who can offord them are the ones whos parents pay the bills. No one should have an unfair advantage due to social upbringing. I have yet to take the PCAT, but my verdict is already in "garbage".

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[ExpressMaiL]

?

 

[hmmmmm]

There are ways for low income students to compensate for college needs such as tuition, books and cost of living through scholorships and state needs grants, but the PCAT may be a deciding factor in pharmacy schools, hurting low income applicants. The study courses for PCAT are rediculously priced and often the only students who can offord them are the ones whos parents pay the bills. No one should have an unfair advantage due to social upbringing. I have yet to take the PCAT, but my verdict is already in "garbage".

you don't need the study courses or a lot of books to do well on the pcat

i used 2, kaplan and cliff and i got 97 on comp

just depends how much effort you put in and attention in class

 

[omnione]

I kind of agree with you. I remember the paper I wrote during my freshman year about the fallacies of standardized test, specifically about how it could give certain groups an advantage.

Over time, I realize that this is a reality in our human society so long as we live on sustenance derived from the need to acquire material goods. Given that, there really aren't any better ways to gauge an applicant's worth as you apply your argument to school placement, GPA, references, jobs, etc.

As defeatist as this may sound, we just have to accept that there exists a gradient of advantages across the human population. Some people will start out with more because of the fortune of being raised by rich parents (cough..cough...Paris Hilton) and some people have to fight for their earnings. The PCAT itself does not set out to discriminate based on socioeconomic status; any correlations happen as a reflection of society.

What we can do is work diligently to the best of our abilities and earn as much place in this world as we can. There will be people who are more fortunate but none of us can control that in the short-term. Too many people hide behind chants of "blame society" (btw, I'm not referring to you) while not doing a d*mn thing to improve their own lives. It's better to accomplish directly proportional to our effort and then attack the system when injustices still exist.

So yeah, low-income students have a more difficult time going through the education process. That's not new. It sucks but change won't occur before you take the PCAT. Don't worry about those review courses; they're nice but they are wholly overpriced and overrated. That might mean that you have to study more than that fortunate colleague but the situation is what it is if you want to get into pharmacy school.

 

[ExpressMaiL]

There are ways for low income students to compensate for college needs such as tuition, books and cost of living through scholorships and state needs grants, but the PCAT may be a deciding factor in pharmacy schools, hurting low income applicants. The study courses for PCAT are rediculously priced and often the only students who can offord them are the ones whos parents pay the bills. No one should have an unfair advantage due to social upbringing. I have yet to take the PCAT, but my verdict is already in "garbage".

Anyone can say and relate to the fact that life isn't fair. It's ultimately your choice on how you go about "reacting" to the things that happen to you - because you control very little in what does. No one wants an unfair advantage put on someone just because of their "social upbringing."

The students that do receive funding/fellowships/compensation actually receive a surplus amount of money (since you're referring to low-income), which can usually be budgeted to purchase extra books, per se. Too many times have I seen those recipients sporting the latest cell phone or pair of Gucci sunglasses. Not to say you may be one of those people, of course. Prioritizing and budgeting can make a huge difference in finances.

Not everyone taking the PCAT is using a prepcourse; students with the highest scores can be from low-income families as well. In my opinion, there is no need to group or categorize people so you can feel sorry for yourself. Be proactive and do what you can with what you can. At the end of the day, nothing will change if you don't roll up your sleeves or if you're afraid of getting your hands dirty. Many things are easier said than done, but when you really, really want something...

 

[Farcus]

unfair ? yes
can you do anything about it to alter the playing field to your advantage? yes, by doing well in your undergrad and on the PCAT. That isn't a given for everyone no matter how poor or rich you're. My parents always tell me that the poor people's kids always mature and do better in school because they start out with nothing and so they have everything to gain and nothing to lose, where as the more well off kids are often inundated with the pleasures of life and will be easily distracted. This makes sense, but I'm sure its not always the case.

 

[Zoomie1]

...often the only students who can offord them are the ones whos parents pay the bills.

Yes, I know you said "often", but to put another spin on things:

I'm 39. My parents haven't paid my bills for 20+ years. I also don't make a lot of money right now. Will I purchase a PCAT prep course? I don't know - I'll make that decision after I finish O-chem, and am closer to actually taking the test. If it's important to me, I'll find the money somewhere and do it. <shrug> I guess that's what it's all about - how one prioritizes their needs and expenditures. It may not be "fair" (life rarely is, unfortunately), but my approach is: "How can *I* deal with the situation?" and just do my best.

good luck
Zoomie

 

[Street Spirit]

I too was deterred by the cost of the classes, so I just bought the books...used. I went to half.com and bought two PCAT prep books for each under $10 and still did fairly well. Plus, I saved $1000.

 

[seattle1013]

I realize that some of you have worked very hard to get where you are now, but my point earlier, whether you see it or not, there is no asistance for those who are low income and need PCAT help. I know many who apply for pharmacy school are able to take PCAT without help, and in my eyes you are a true candidate for pharmacy school, but those of you who have to take Kaplan courses to pass PCAT, not so much. I realize life is dog eat dog and nothing is truely fair, but if a pharmacy school truely wants the best candidate, why would they rely on the PCAT for admissions help? Between GPA, LORs, ECs and an interview, they cant determine a successful applicant? I really dont see the need to invite a 3rd party into the equation. Pharmacy schools should have an independant test for each school, to filter through the candidate they want, not the candidate that harcourt wants, this is just a pointless waste of money. why should the writers of the pcat have such a profound impact on who is selected? It seems the PCAT is a good indicator of the candidate that retain most of their basic prerequisite coursework, but if you have to take a class to refresh you knowledge, I call B.S.
I know this is big business, but this bothers me. sorry for poor spelling and grammar errors.

 

[Zoomie1]

...there is no asistance for those who are low income and need PCAT help. ... but if a pharmacy school truely wants the best candidate, why would they rely on the PCAT for admissions help? Between GPA, LORs, ECs and an interview, they cant determine a successful applicant? I really dont see the need to invite a 3rd party into the equation. Pharmacy schools should have an independant test for each school, to filter through the candidate they want, not the candidate that harcourt wants, this is just a pointless waste of money. why should the writers of the pcat have such a profound impact on who is selected? It seems the PCAT is a good indicator of the candidate that retain most of their basic prerequisite coursework, but if you have to take a class to refresh you knowledge, I call B.S.

Seattle

I'm not sure I understand your complaint - is it with the entire PCAT process, or the fact that PCAT review programs cost so much, or the fact that the PCAT weighs so much in the admissions process?

I think I do understand your point about the cost of the review programs - I remember when I was in high school (back in the Dark Ages), we viewed the 'SAT Prep Courses' as rich-kids tools (or "toys"?) to help them get into that ivy. It didn't bother me much then, as I had no designs on college at that point my life. And now that I'm a little older than the average pre-pharm student, I realize that my efforts are what's going to get me into pharm school. If I need a PCAT review course (and I might - we'll see after I take my first PCAT), I'll figure out a way to get one.

As for the PCAT weighing so much in the admissions contest - again, I think I understand - but I can't offer any advice or do much about it. While it may be frustrating, that's the way the system works.

And only the adcoms know *exactly* how much the PCAT weighs, or precisely where it fits into their decision-making process.

And as for your last point: "It seems the PCAT is a good indicator of the candidate that retain most of their basic prerequisite coursework, but if you have to take a class to refresh you knowledge, I call B.S."

It would seem to me that there would be (at least) two schools of thought here - the first being, that some people are willing/able to pay for any advantage into getting accepted. Competition is pretty fierce, and probably going to get worse. While not all of us are rich, if we feel we need the course badly enough, some of us will figure out a way to pay for it.

And the second thought being that some people don't retain info quite as well as others - especially info they don't use on a daily basis. <shrug> I'm sitting in a Calculus class right now and there are concepts that I know I know, but don't quite recall upon demand (it's been a while since Algebra!).

anywhoo - good luck to you, and I hope everything works out for you
Zoomie

 

[YapYap6]

I realize that some of you have worked very hard to get where you are now, but my point earlier, whether you see it or not, there is no asistance for those who are low income and need PCAT help. I know many who apply for pharmacy school are able to take PCAT without help, and in my eyes you are a true candidate for pharmacy school, but those of you who have to take Kaplan courses to pass PCAT, not so much. I realize life is dog eat dog and nothing is truely fair, but if a pharmacy school truely wants the best candidate, why would they rely on the PCAT for admissions help? Between GPA, LORs, ECs and an interview, they cant determine a successful applicant? I really dont see the need to invite a 3rd party into the equation. Pharmacy schools should have an independant test for each school, to filter through the candidate they want, not the candidate that harcourt wants, this is just a pointless waste of money. why should the writers of the pcat have such a profound impact on who is selected? It seems the PCAT is a good indicator of the candidate that retain most of their basic prerequisite coursework, but if you have to take a class to refresh you knowledge, I call B.S.
I know this is big business, but this bothers me. sorry for poor spelling and grammar errors.

If you have such a problem with it, then apply to a school that doesn't require a pcat. I really don't see the necessity of a pcat preparation course. If you feel that you will have such a horrendous time, then why not just shore up on your old coursework? Heck, I took organic 1, calc 1, and biology in the same semester. Right as the semester finished, I took the PCAT and scored a 95 composite. Everything was fresh in my mind. All of this BS about low income students being at a disadvantage because they can't afford a PCAT prep class is..well..BS. Besides, those prep classes are an absolute waste of money. If you're having a hard time, go to the FREE tutors that are available on your campus and have them help you with whatever subject you feel you are lacking in. There's only so much basic biology, chemistry, and mathematics that the pcat can test you on. They don't expect you to know every nuance and every little detail.

 

[sakigt]

Anything that measures two human beings up against each other could be fiancial discrimination. Should we ban the Olympics because poorer countries cant compete with rich ones (this obviously isnt true, btw )

Life is full of roadblocks. You can either make excuses or do the best you can with what youve got. If you do your best and you still fail its all good. Youre only born with one brain so make do with what you have.

 

[mug3n]

I realize that some of you have worked very hard to get where you are now, but my point earlier, whether you see it or not, there is no asistance for those who are low income and need PCAT help.

Seriously, none? You know, to get help on the PCAT, you don't necessarily need to take the courses. Plenty of avenues out there to get help. Going to a tutor agency to get help for the level of sciences and maths you need for the PCAT is one, and there are a lot of decent and economical tutors out there that teach science and math. If you know your biology, chemistry, and precalculus well, there's no reason not to be able to do well in any of those sections.

To think that a PCAT course is the be all and end all and the only source of help for people to turn to is just blissful ignorance on your part, I'm sorry. I am sure that there's only a minority of people here that read (and post) in the forums that have taken a Kaplan or other prep course (and in my case, there's nowhere near where I live that actually offers a PCAT prep course, but even if there was, I'm sure it'd be for the same outlandish price tag). You don't have to have a poor socioeconomic status to realize that paying $1000+ for a course vs doing the same thing by learning off books for <$200 is a much better deal.

Pharmacy schools should have an independant test for each school

What? Impractical and a waste of time. The whole point of having a universally recognized test is so that there is one standard and to simplify the admissions process. So if a candidate applies for 10 pharmacy schools, he/she would have to do 10 separate admissions tests, each with varying levels of standards? Come on. I suppose each medical school in the world should also have a unique admissions test and scrap the MCAT so they can find the real deal. Whatever. Find me one pharmacy school that solely uses the PCAT as a judge of a candidate's worthiness. The PCAT is one factor and often not even close to the biggest one, so why is it such a big deal to you?

 

[Pharmco]

I'd really like to see someone do a study on PCAT scores and ability to succeed in Pharmacy school, ie get in, do well and pass the boards. I know there has to be a way to "weed" out those that aren't capable, but I'm not sure a standardized test is the answer. You may say it's just sour grapes, but I finished in top of my HS class (350 students--and took hardest classes I could) only scored a 20 on my ACT, I have a 3.8ish GPA in college and only scored mediocre on the PCAT. I have no reason to believe I would be anything but successful in Pharmacy school. And to those that say the Pharmacy Board test is standardized, I would disagree, the question on that test will be about information I have used and understand. Sorry, but I haven't used a logorhythm since I took whatever class taught it in HS. BUT, I still see the need for "something" to set one apart from the other, but honestly, I'm not sure a GOD-Given blessing (innate intelligience) is what makes a "good pharmacist"---sorry I'm rambling.

 

[sideeffect]

yes, no doubt...

check this article,
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3833/is_200110/ai_n8962273

 

[txpharm2b]

Would that be the same test I did well on just by studying for the courses I took to prepare for pharmacy school? I didn't have time (nor the money) to take some prep course. It didn't matter in the long run.

I say the middle class people who don't get scholarships because they don't have a "need" for it are the ones being discriminated against. After all, they're paying the full cost of those college courses they have to take. They're the ones bearing the brunt of the ever increasing cost of tuition and fees (not to mention books). They actually had to pay for those college courses to prepare themselves for the PCAT.

 

[AsianGuy26]

The first time I took the pCATs I didn't study at all and did fairly good... composite 86, but I know with a little bit of study I can do much better.

How fair is the pcat? Well like some people have mentioned that life isnt fair but what we do with our lives will play a huge role on how well we do on the pcats.

My parents aren't rich... fairly poor considering our income and the number of dependents... we scrap on by though and my siblings are all going to fairly prestigous colleges. I don't believe I got any more advantages but rather what I did in HS and then subsequently in college has brought me to where I am..