is there any med school you wouldn't go to, even if it was your only acceptance?

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yeah, that's possible. But it's depressing to think that's how all the non-white students feel at almost every undergrad/med school in the US 🙁

It does sound sad that there are people that feel this way. For the most part, everyone should have no problem blending in with all different races/ethnicity. After all, if someone only isolates themselves with people of the same race, that significantly diminishes the amount of friends and people you'll talk to. Nothing necessarily wrong about that. I think there is a myth in people's head that they won't be accepted, but this is definitely false, at least with most normal people.
 
...so it is true, but it's not caused by race, it's caused by the third factor of SES?

I'd say it's partly SES. That being said, minorities will face bias regardless of SES. Culture is different than SES. Although you can argue that income defines some aspects of culture.
 
For me, even though I'm not in a position to be picky about my interviews because of my MCAT score, I can't imagine myself adjusting well to life at a med school in states towards the South/East coast. I applied to 3 that fit that criteria, but ended up withdrawing from 2 (will prob. withdraw from the 3rd one too) because of that reason. 😛

I'm too in love with the West Coast. Ugh, California, the bane of my current existence and first true love :laugh:

The other is probably schools that require a specific faith/lifestyle, as others have pointed out. 😀
 
It does sound sad that there are people that feel this way. For the most part, everyone should have no problem blending in with all different races/ethnicity. After all, if someone only isolates themselves with people of the same race, that significantly diminishes the amount of friends and people you'll talk to. Nothing necessarily wrong about that. I think there is a myth in people's head that they won't be accepted, but this is definitely false, at least with most normal people.

What?
 

Not really.

Historically black medical schools dont have as much diversity in the classroom, both cultural and societal. Not to mention that they are consistently on the lower end of the academic status (GPA/MCAT of accepted applicants).

Lots of people dont apply to the historically black schools. If I am not mistaken, you are one of them.
 

lol, I meant to say that everyone for the most part shouldn't have a hard time interacting with people that might be of a different race than them. Sadly, some people might not think so for some reason..
 
but making it a requirement does imply the privilege to choose, just as the inability to consider it as a serious requirement does imply lack of that privilege.

I am sorry but I don't get your point here. How is not even considering a school that clearly doesn't provide the environment you need to excel as a student a privilege?
 
Is this really an issue?

It's an issue of philosophy, I don't like being told how to live my life. If I want to drink a beer with dinner, I'm going to drink a god damn beer.
 
ftfy



Having the sense to want to go somewhere you feel comfortable doesn't necessarily imply privilege.

At the end of the cycle if one has options, yes choose a school that best fits you. BUT, if at the end of the cycle school X is your only choice and it's a US MD and you decide not to attend because of reasons listed by previous posters. Then you've lost sight of your goal.
 
lol, I meant to say that everyone for the most part shouldn't have a hard time interacting with people that might be of a different race than them. Sadly, some people might not think so for some reason..

But most people don't think that way. It's called culture shock.
 
It's an issue of philosophy, I don't like being told how to live my life. If I want to drink a beer with dinner, I'm going to drink a god damn beer.

Blasphemy.
 
But most people don't think that way. It's called culture shock.

True, this definitely does happen at first. Hopefully, it's not something that cripples people though 🙁
 
At the end of the cycle if one has options, yes choose a school that best fits you. BUT, if at the end of the cycle school X is your only choice and it's a US MD and you decide not to attend because of reasons listed by previous posters. Then you've lost sight of your goal.

Not an issue since most people don't even apply to schools that they will hate to attend. Personally, I much rather be a reapplicant to the schools that I want to attend rather than spend 4 years in misery. "Med school NOW or the streets" mentality doesn't do it for me.
 
I am sorry but I don't get your point here. How is not even considering a school that clearly doesn't provide the environment you need to excel as a student a privilege?
Because the ability to ignore schools that might otherwise accept you, based just on fit, is not something that everyone has. Some are so desperate to get in, that they can't afford the luxury of using that as a criterion. Because stats etc are so non-competitive, or maybe for other reasons.
Just as those who are sought after by HMS etc have the luxury to consider criteria such as location, price, curriculum, relationships, etc, those who are strong applicants for normal schools have the freedom to consider fit and personality and ethos. I meant to suggest that not everyone has that ability - whether because of bad luck or bad choices - and thus some people don't have the privilege of considering any factors beyond acceptance.
 
True, this definitely does happen at first. Hopefully, it's not something that cripples people though 🙁

I don't think it cripples people, but it certainly isolates them even more like you said. Just think of the "angry black man" in society.
 
I'm not one to be super picky about schools, but there's a limit. That limit being that I can't see myself being comfortable at a school that demands its students adhere to a rather strict, religious lifestyle. As an atheist, I don't want to be forced to attend church services and take theology classes in med school. I don't want to be held to a Puritan-esque conduct code that includes no drinking. And of course there's the little issue that it would be hard to fit in with my classmates when they're extremely passionate about a religion that I want no part of.

Not that it matters because Loma Linda makes Christianity one of their admissions requirements IIRC.

That's really interesting and I get where you're coming from. Personally, I actually am a Christian and I do take my beliefs very seriously and on a daily basis, but I know Loma Linda is 7th day adventist-- and I'm non-denominational. There are several doctrinal aspects of their religion that I strongly disagree with and if these classes you're referring to are open to discussion, there's no way I would be able to keep my mouth shut lol. So having to sit through their classes on 7th day Adventist theology and points of view and church services would be really frustrating for me. And for that reason, I don't want to apply there anymore lol but I guess I'll do more research
 
Not an issue since most people don't even apply to schools that they will hate to attend. Personally, I much rather be a reapplicant to the schools that I want to attend rather than spend 4 years in misery. "Med school NOW or the streets" mentality doesn't do it for me.

Yeah, guess it depends on the person's mentality
 
I would think that should be over by the time someone applies to med school...

Maybe for some. What if you're a white kid who goes to a HBC? Black/Hispanics?
 
Subconsciously, people feel more comfortable in a racial setting that's predominantly the same as your own.

Yeah I don't buy this. I've always felt very comfortable around black folks even though I'm white. I think it more has to do with life experiences.
 
Because the ability to ignore schools that might otherwise accept you, based just on fit, is not something that everyone has. Some are so desperate to get in, that they can't afford the luxury of using that as a criterion. Because stats etc are so non-competitive, or maybe for other reasons.
Just as those who are sought after by HMS etc have the luxury to consider criteria such as location, price, curriculum, relationships, etc, those who are strong applicants for normal schools have the freedom to consider fit and personality and ethos. I meant to suggest that not everyone has that ability - whether because of bad luck or bad choices - and thus some people don't have the privilege of considering any factors beyond acceptance.

How does not willing to apply to schools where you have a high chance of acceptance makes you privileged? I am not guaranteed acceptance anywhere. I may have very marginal numbers, yet, I still would rather reapply than go anywhere just to be a doctor. What if I am Muslim? Should I lie about my religion to have a shot at Loma Linda or apply anyway just to get rejected? What if I can't leave my family because they don't speak English? Should I still apply all over US and abandon them? What if I don't have the money to apply to that many school? Maybe people who are able to apply and go to any US MD school are the ones who are privileged.
 
Because the ability to ignore schools that might otherwise accept you, based just on fit, is not something that everyone has. Some are so desperate to get in, that they can't afford the luxury of using that as a criterion. Because stats etc are so non-competitive, or maybe for other reasons.
Just as those who are sought after by HMS etc have the luxury to consider criteria such as location, price, curriculum, relationships, etc, those who are strong applicants for normal schools have the freedom to consider fit and personality and ethos. I meant to suggest that not everyone has that ability - whether because of bad luck or bad choices - and thus some people don't have the privilege of considering any factors beyond acceptance.

Exactly,beggars can't be choosers.
 
Have you ever read anything in Osteo?

There are certainly people who will do anything and go anywhere to become a doctor. I will go on a limb here and assume that most do not.
 
How does not willing to apply to schools where you have a high chance of acceptance makes you privileged? I am not guaranteed acceptance anywhere. I may have very marginal numbers, yet, I still would rather reapply than go anywhere just to be a doctor. What if I am Muslim? Should I lie about my religion to have a shot at Loma Linda or apply anyway just to get rejected? What if I can't leave my family because they don't speak English? Should I still apply all over US and abandon them? What if I don't have the money to apply to that many school? Maybe people who are able to apply and go to any US MD school are the ones who are privileged.

👍
 
As others have said: If I applied to it, it's a school I would attend if accepted (perhaps not too willingly, but I'm applying there because I wouldn't mind going there).
 
Maybe for some. What if you're a white kid who goes to a HBC? Black/Hispanics?
I meant for non-white minorities in the general population - that their culture shock should be over by the time they're applying.

I don't expect a white who attends a HBC to have much culture shock - unless there's some ideology going on, as I suggested earlier, because they're both still within a white-dominated culture. It's not like another country (I assume). Maybe I'm presuming too many similarities between white/black culture.
 
I meant for non-white minorities in the general population - that their culture shock should be over by the time they're applying.

I don't expect a white who attends a HBC to have much culture shock - unless there's some ideology going on, as I suggested earlier, because they're both still within a white-dominated culture. It's not like another country (I assume). Maybe I'm presuming too many similarities between white/black culture.

This is why diversity essays exists
 
I don't mean to call you out, but...

I don't get the whole "fit" thing, school is school, it's not a social club. Just get your degree and get the f*ck out, it's that simple.

As long as its US MD am there.

You gotta learn to appreciate what you have, take nothing for granted.

Nah. I want to be happy those four years. Have you gone on interviews yet? Some schools are radically different from others.
 
How does not willing to apply to schools where you have a high chance of acceptance makes you privileged? I am not guaranteed acceptance anywhere. I may have very marginal numbers, yet, I still would rather reapply than go anywhere just to be a doctor. What if I am Muslim? Should I lie about my religion to have a shot at Loma Linda or apply anyway just to get rejected? What if I can't leave my family because they don't speak English? Should I still apply all over US and abandon them? What if I don't have the money to apply to that many school? Maybe people who are able to apply and go to any US MD school are the ones who are privileged.
I'm prioritizing the value of acceptance. So when you're able to turn down a good chance of acceptance to prioritize another value, that person is privileged - because they're able to lower the importance of the chance of acceptance, and favor something else.
For example, say I have a 4.0/45. So many schools want me, that I can afford to consider religious orientation. And MD vs DO. And location. If I had a 3.0/25, I can't afford to be so picky.

beggars can't be choosers.
This sums it up.

Maybe people who are able to apply and go to any US MD school are the ones who are privileged.
I totally agree with this. People who are geographically limited, not just stats-limited, can't afford to apply everywhere, whereas people who aren't, are privileged, fortunate, whatever you want to call it. People who have a religious obligation rather than want to avoid a religion, in a country most schools are not of that religious persuation, are more limited, whereas people who don't care about religion, or who don't want religion, are more fortunate and privileged. OTOH people who do want to avoid religion but can't because of their stats, are also less privileged than people who are able to use religion as a (negative) factor. We might not disagree as much as it seems 🙂
 
Nah. I want to be happy those four years. Have you gone on interviews yet? Some schools are radically different from others.

That's not the point. the point is, you better be ready to go to every school you've applied to, if accepted.

Been to several interviews, got one acceptance so far. Regardless, am not picky and for me med school is a means.

There's no way you can tell how "happy you'll be for those four years" from an interview.
 
I'm prioritizing the value of acceptance. So when you're able to turn down a good chance of acceptance to prioritize another value, that person is privileged - because they're able to lower the importance of the chance of acceptance, and favor something else.
For example, say I have a 4.0/45. So many schools want me, that I can afford to consider religious orientation. And MD vs DO. And location. If I had a 3.0/25, I can't afford to be so picky.

Privelege, to me, has a connotation to it that this explanation does not capture.
 
Privelege, to me, has a connotation to it that this explanation does not capture.
care to share?

For me, it's something good, different than a right, that someone has either by their actions or by circumstances beyond their control.

edit: and I didn't mean my explanation to define the concept - I was suggesting that using religion as a criterion was an example of having privilege.
 
For me, even though I'm not in a position to be picky about my interviews because of my MCAT score, I can't imagine myself adjusting well to life at a med school in states towards the South/East coast. I applied to 3 that fit that criteria, but ended up withdrawing from 2 (will prob. withdraw from the 3rd one too) because of that reason. 😛

I'm too in love with the West Coast. Ugh, California, the bane of my current existence and first true love :laugh:

The other is probably schools that require a specific faith/lifestyle, as others have pointed out. 😀
totally feel your California pain!
 
I think that if I had multiple acceptances due to high gpa/mcat, I would not feel priveleged to have them.

Considering the multitude of factors outside of one's direct control that could be involved in that outcome, I don't think it's unreasonable to feel privileged in that situation.
 
Perhaps not. What you're getting at is likely a whole seperate argument though.
 
Yeah I don't buy this. I've always felt very comfortable around black folks even though I'm white. I think it more has to do with life experiences.

Agreed. It depends on what type of people you have around.

Sometimes, your stereotypes will be confirmed when meeting someone, while people from different backgrounds often become the best friends together due to, say, similar values.



Privelege is typically referring to something given, not earned, right? As in a priveleged class in society.

I think that if I had multiple acceptances due to high gpa/mcat, I would not feel priveleged to have them.

I understand your point.

High GPA/MCAT and other credentials are earned through many hours of hard work, so consequently multiple acceptances are justified and should not be considered as a privilege, since that person is by no means taking those acceptances for granted and deserves them due to his or her credentials. In short, this individual's ability to ignore schools that would otherwise send an acceptance letter, or the ability to place more weights on other factors like the location or ranking without compromising the overall chances to get eventually accepted compared to other applicants, is not a privilege.

Aside from extreme cases like having no choice but to attend a religious school despite being non-religious, I think this logic presumes that credentials like high GPA/MCAT can be entirely "earned." It is very true to certain extent, I do not disagree with that. However, sometimes there are other factors beyond our control that affect the quality of our quantitative and qualitative credentials. For instance, with family issues, financial concerns, and the relatively late realization of medical interests, some outstanding applicants might not have been able to get credentials as great as they could have. If their circumstances become unfavorable enough, they might not have the ability to ignore schools that would otherwise send an acceptance letter.

In short, exceptional credentials, to some extent, cannot be justified simply as something we can "earn" entirely with enough individual efforts. Sometimes, there are other behind-the-scene "privileges" being involved that often facilitate us in achieving the outstanding credentials. For example, if I had to work 2-3 multiple jobs to support my family and education, I probably would not have the same credentials I have today, probably having take (multiple) gap years and even considering different careers other than medicine.

Because of this, I would safely say that having multiple acceptances, let alone multiple interviews, is in part a privilege, although people with multiple interviews and acceptances usually feel that they "earned" them.
 
That's a reasonable analysis. Hopefully I have a few of those acceptances sometime this spring and then I'll check back in and let you guys know how I feel about them then, haha. 🙂
 
If I actually do follow through with this journey, I wouldn't mind going to any accredited US medical school, MD or DO, as long as there was nothing severely wrong with the school (like it being on probation).

If I had to choose at this point, my only criteria I would probably shoot for a true P/F school, or if not that, a H/P/F school. I think I'm a motivated individual, but if I get into med school, I'm going to put in as much work as I can whilst attempting to stay sane and not worry about shooting for god level residencies or ROAD specialties.

As for any other details like a system-based curriculum vs whatever else, I'd have to do more research into what would be most conducive to learning the slew of basic science material. I'm still pretty early in pre-med existence.
 
Considering the multitude of factors outside of one's direct control that could be involved in that outcome, I don't think it's unreasonable to feel privileged in that situation.
👍

However, sometimes there are other factors beyond our control that affect the quality of our quantitative and qualitative credentials. For instance, with family issues, financial concerns, and the relatively late realization of medical interests, some outstanding applicants might not have been able to get credentials as great as they could have. If their circumstances become unfavorable enough, they might not have the ability to ignore schools that would otherwise send an acceptance letter.

In short, exceptional credentials, to some extent, cannot be justified simply as something we can "earn" entirely with enough individual efforts. Sometimes, there are other behind-the-scene "privileges" being involved that often facilitate us in achieving the outstanding credentials. For example, if I had to work 2-3 multiple jobs to support my family and education, I probably would not have the same credentials I have today, probably having take (multiple) gap years and even considering different careers other than medicine.

Because of this, I would safely say that having multiple acceptances, let alone multiple interviews, is in part a privilege, although people with multiple interviews and acceptances usually feel that they "earned" them.
👍
 
This is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A black school is waaaay more diverse than any other medical school or just the reverse of other medical schools in that instead of being 90% white, it's 90% black. And there are black people coming from all different walks of life rich, poor, southern, west coast, African, Caribbean, European etc. Maybe you need to pick up a book on something other than science.
 
This is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A black school is waaaay more diverse than any other medical school or just the reverse of other medical schools in that instead of being 90% white, it's 90% black. And there are black people coming from all different walks of life rich, poor, southern, west coast, African, Caribbean, European etc. Maybe you need to pick up a book on something other than science.

I'm not sure you have the fundamental definition of diversity correct here.
 
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