is there any med school you wouldn't go to, even if it was your only acceptance?

[487806]

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I like how a thread asking innocently about which schools we don't want to go if accepted collapses into a racial/diversity flame war. As always, strong work premeds in hijacking yet another thread and making that into a flame war.

Now, let's get back on the original topic, k?

Bumping this.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Yeah, racism is to blame for someone suspecting you of committing a crime.

It's gotta be someone else holding you down.

white guy with no sense of reality alert

 

[MDforMee]

of course they are medical schools.. the problem is you keep looking at things at a small scale. Step back and look at all medical schools and you will see exactly what I am talking about.

And second, I said almost any school.

Once again…

USC
Black: 11
Hispanics: 19
Asians: 73
Whites: 93

UC Irvine
Black: 3
Hispanics: 16
Asians: 37
White: 58

UC San Diego
Black: 6
Hispanics: 17
Asians: 44
Whites: 72

White people are obviously the majority, no? Compare these numbers to the numbers at Howard and Morehouse, how different are they?

You're serious with this post? White people the majority?

First of all, "White" includes people of Middle Eastern origins.

... at UCI "Whites" are 50.1% of the total (58/114)

... and at UCSD "Whites" are 45.2% of the total (72/159)

These are public schools, and in California as a whole, 42.3% of the population is non-hispanic white. When you mix in people that are hispanic white, Middle Eastern, and so on, the numbers of whites at UCI and UCSD are proportionate to California's demographics.

However, "Asian" is an umbrella term as is "White," and in reality, the majority of "Asians" in UC medical schools are ethnically Chinese. Chinese are 3.6% of California's population.

at UCI Asians are 32.5% of the total (37/114)

at UCSD Asians are 27.7% of the total (44/159)

Excuse me, but California's medical schools are overrepresented with Chinese, and underrepresented with blacks and hispanics. Whites are evenly represented.

If they bring back affirmative action, and play the game fairly, then they'll have to do the following:
1. Find out who is Chinese and who is from another Asian subgroup
2. Limit Chinese admissions
3. Increase black and hispanic enrollment
4. Leave whites out of the mess entirely

I wish that there were more blacks and hispanics in higher education in this state; in fact, I'm working as a tutor to help people from these ethnic backgrounds, specifically. Having just graduated from UCLA with a science degree, let me tell you something: I used to count people's ethnicities in class; seriously, there'd be about 3 or 4 white kids, maybe 1 black kid (most of the time none), and maybe 2 hispanics in my classes... with 50 or more Chinese students.

I don't believe in affirmative action, but I do believe that unless people start raising their kids the right way that California will continue to have ethnic disparities in higher ed and that blaming white people will still be socially acceptable. Look at the elephant in the living room, here.

 

[KnuxNole]

Bumping this.

You might need to enlarge it 10x fold and put sparkly pink font for it to get across to people to stop their race/diversity talk.

And I never knew Middle Eastern people were considered "White". If I was to say I'm white, everyone would think I'm a phony liar, with my light tan skin and all.

I just put "Other" and leave it as that :X

 

[touchpause13]

This thread makes me hope med schools have at least one class on cultural sensitivity.

 

[487806]

You might need to enlarge it 10x fold and put sparkly pink font for it to get across to people to stop their race/diversity talk.

Sure thing.

+1

I guess we should have all seen the flame war looming.

Finally! A normal post in this thread

Btw, don't worry. I actually appreciate you posting this since the hijacked conversation is idiotic.

This thread turned from promising to absolute garbage imo.

 

[yehhhboiii]

i wouldnt go to nyu because it would be too distracting
i don't know about the medical campus but the undergrad campus is not really it's own separate thing and it's just buildings in the city
also it sucks to go anywhere during rush hour
and it's expensive to live in nyc
there's too many college kids running around drunk at night

 

[487806]

i wouldnt go to nyu because it would be too distracting
i don't know about the medical campus but the undergrad campus is not really it's own separate thing and it's just buildings in the city
also it sucks to go anywhere during rush hour
and it's expensive to live in nyc
there's too many college kids running around drunk at night

But that means NYMC isn't good, right? 😕

 

[Ismet]

But that means NYMC isn't good, right? 😕

NYMC isn't in the city, it's actually in a very affluent outlying suburb

 

[ls1225]

It would be NYU for me also. I interviewed there last month and didn't like it at all. The area in the city is great, as it the area of undergrad. I live in NJ and love going to into the city but, I realized that I don't want to live in NYC.

 

[mdocfuture]

This thread makes me hope med schools have at least one class on cultural sensitivity.

+1 Right lol. It trips me out the type of people who say they want to be doctors. Oh well!

 

[487806]

NYMC isn't in the city, it's actually in a very affluent outlying suburb

Now comes a really noob question... saying that NYU in the city is bad is the same as saying Columbia is bad?

 

[Mr Interesting]

You're serious with this post? White people the majority?

First of all, "White" includes people of Middle Eastern origins.

... at UCI "Whites" are 50.1% of the total (58/114)

... and at UCSD "Whites" are 45.2% of the total (72/159)

These are public schools, and in California as a whole, 42.3% of the population is non-hispanic white. When you mix in people that are hispanic white, Middle Eastern, and so on, the numbers of whites at UCI and UCSD are proportionate to California's demographics.

However, "Asian" is an umbrella term as is "White," and in reality, the majority of "Asians" in UC medical schools are ethnically Chinese. Chinese are 3.6% of California's population.

at UCI Asians are 32.5% of the total (37/114)

at UCSD Asians are 27.7% of the total (44/159)

Excuse me, but California's medical schools are overrepresented with Chinese, and underrepresented with blacks and hispanics. Whites are evenly represented.

If they bring back affirmative action, and play the game fairly, then they'll have to do the following:
1. Find out who is Chinese and who is from another Asian subgroup
2. Limit Chinese admissions
3. Increase black and hispanic enrollment
4. Leave whites out of the mess entirely

I wish that there were more blacks and hispanics in higher education in this state; in fact, I'm working as a tutor to help people from these ethnic backgrounds, specifically. Having just graduated from UCLA with a science degree, let me tell you something: I used to count people's ethnicities in class; seriously, there'd be about 3 or 4 white kids, maybe 1 black kid (most of the time none), and maybe 2 hispanics in my classes... with 50 or more Chinese students.

I don't believe in affirmative action, but I do believe that unless people start raising their kids the right way that California will continue to have ethnic disparities in higher ed and that blaming white people will still be socially acceptable. Look at the elephant in the living room, here.

😕 ....🙄 ...... ...... ......😆

 

[Ismet]

Now comes a really noob question... saying that NYU in the city is bad is the same as saying Columbia is bad?

NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Mt. Sinai, Einstein, and SUNY Downstate are all in the city, albeit in different areas. Whether they're "bad" or not depends on the individual and how much they like the city and/or layout of the school and surrounding area. I have friends at Columbia and NYU med schools who love it there. I love visiting NYC, but I would never want to live there.

 

[Jennyfishy]

People always try to ignore social issues pertaining to race or associated disparities stemming from them until it no longer benefits them. Then it becomes a circular "I am oppressed too" bicker fest

States like CA, NY, etc. tend to make people forget that everything in between is not as diverse or friendly towards minorities, lol. Using shifts in representation in education to argue that people of color are now magically equal in all aspects of life and that everywhere is truly diverse just illustrates how unaware people really are.

Totally +10000 for schools integrating cultural competency and disparities type courses into their curriculum haha

 

[Dr Turkelton]

....anyways,

The question is rather moot because if there's a school I wouldn't attend, I wouldn't have applied to it or went to its Interview Day. Anyways, U of I with its tuition, HBCs, Loma Linda, Central Michigan, to name a few.

What's wrong with CMU?

 

[Pandaeac]

It would be NYU for me also. I interviewed there last month and didn't like it at all. The area in the city is great, as it the area of undergrad. I live in NJ and love going to into the city but, I realized that I don't want to live in NYC.

interesting! can you elaborate about what you didn't like about it? I've been bummed about not getting an II

 

[NontradCA]

I left this thread right before all the idiots arrived. Phew.

 

[amazing tekkers]

I would avoid going to a school in Mississippi/Alabama/Louisiana, wouldn't survive the weather nor the people.

 

[La Presse]

I would avoid going to a school in Mississippi/Alabama/Louisiana, wouldn't survive the weather nor the people.

I hear Tulane is a good place.

 

[Omppu27]

Lol I don't think New Orleans is like most of the other areas in Miss/Bama/Louisiana

 

[ls1225]

interesting! can you elaborate about what you didn't like about it? I've been bummed about not getting an II

To be honest, there was very little that I did like. Like I said, the area is great, very safe, nice restaurants, cafes and shopping. It was NYU and Bellevue that I didn't like. It was my first experience with the MMI format, and I found it to be very uncomfortable and stressful. There was no interaction with the interviewers. You stood there and talked for 6 minutes, which felt like an hour, as they stared blankly at you until the bell rang at which time you moved to the next room to have the same experience. If you ran out of things to say, you just stood there awkwardly. Since NYU, I went did another MMI and had a very different experience. They interacted and showed some kind of expression.

The interview I went on prior to NYU was a total different experience. The tour was amazing. We actually got a glimpse into the lives of students. We visited the cadaver lab while the students were working. I was able to hold a heart, squeeze a lung and speak to students. At NYU we looked into empty rooms and had no student interaction at all. During the tour of NYU they also showed us the living arrangements which were no more than incredibly high priced dorm rooms. I haven't lived in a dorm since my sophomore year and really don't want to do it again...especially at that price.

I know NYU is an amazing school, just not for me.

 

[Pandaeac]

To be honest, there was very little that I did like. Like I said, the area is great, very safe, nice restaurants, cafes and shopping. It was NYU and Bellevue that I didn't like. It was my first experience with the MMI format, and I found it to be very uncomfortable and stressful. There was no interaction with the interviewers. You stood there and talked for 6 minutes, which felt like an hour, as they stared blankly at you until the bell rang at which time you moved to the next room to have the same experience. If you ran out of things to say, you just stood there awkwardly. Since NYU, I went did another MMI and had a very different experience. They interacted and showed some kind of expression.

The interview I went on prior to NYU was a total different experience. The tour was amazing. We actually got a glimpse into the lives of students. We visited the cadaver lab while the students were working. I was able to hold a heart, squeeze a lung and speak to students. At NYU we looked into empty rooms and had no student interaction at all. During the tour of NYU they also showed us the living arrangements which were no more than incredibly high priced dorm rooms. I haven't lived in a dorm since my sophomore year and really don't want to do it again...especially at that price.

I know NYU is an amazing school, just not for me.

thanks for sharing, that makes a lot of sense! mind saying which school it was where you got to hold a heart? 🙂

 

[ls1225]

thanks for sharing, that makes a lot of sense! mind saying which school it was where you got to hold a heart? 🙂

LSU New Orleans

 

[tantacles]

I left this thread right before all the idiots arrived. Phew.

And then you came back, unfortunately.

 

[Kinch]

And then you came back, unfortunately.

 

[Redpancreas]

What's wrong with CMU?

Nothing is "wrong" with it. It's just the only in-state I didn't apply to because of it's mission statement (which I am grateful for being so direct). The schools posted only apply to me. I did not mean to single out "CMU" or any other school...this is just based on the schools I was looking at and ruled out when I was deciding on applying. I have no doubt CMU will churn out dozen of amazing physicians in the next couple of years.

 

[Belcanto]

I'm a little surprised no one has brought this reason up yet. I wouldn't even apply to these places, but even still I would never go to Loma Linda or Liberty because I'm gay and would rather not put myself back in the closet for 4 years. I'm fine with most religiously affiliated schools, but these schools either highly discourage or outright ban gay students from attending.

I would do most things to become a doctor, but I would never put myself through four years of feeling explicitly unwelcome because of who I am. I already did the whole conservative private school thing for high school and that was bad enough.

 

[tantacles]

I'm a little surprised no one has brought this reason up yet. I wouldn't even apply to these places, but even still I would never go to Loma Linda or Liberty because I'm gay and would rather not put myself back in the closet for 4 years. I'm fine with most religiously affiliated schools, but these schools either highly discourage or outright ban gay students from attending.

I would do most things to become a doctor, but I would never put myself through four years of feeling explicitly unwelcome because of who I am. I already did the whole conservative private school thing for high school and that was bad enough.

Same reason I didn't apply to schools in the South.

 

[Kinch]

Nothing is "wrong" with it. It's just the only in-state I didn't apply to because of it's mission statement (which I am grateful for being so direct). The schools posted only apply to me. I did not mean to single out "CMU" or any other school...this is just based on the schools I was looking at and ruled out when I was deciding on applying. I have no doubt CMU will churn out dozen of amazing physicians in the next couple of years.

Also didn't apply to CMU as an in-state, mostly because Mt. Pleasant is horrible.

 

[NontradCA]

And then you came back, unfortunately.

 

[Sardinia]

-

I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on the logical fallacy you mentioned previously that's race conscious.

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Nothing is "wrong" with it. It's just the only in-state I didn't apply to because of it's mission statement (which I am grateful for being so direct). The schools posted only apply to me. I did not mean to single out "CMU" or any other school...this is just based on the schools I was looking at and ruled out when I was deciding on applying. I have no doubt CMU will churn out dozen of amazing physicians in the next couple of years.

I was just asking because I was considering adding CMU to my list. Is the mission statement really that different than say, Michigan State? I knew there was a focus on serving rural communities but I didn't think it was overly emphasized there compared to other schools.

 

[touchpause13]

I'm a little surprised no one has brought this reason up yet. I wouldn't even apply to these places, but even still I would never go to Loma Linda or Liberty because I'm gay and would rather not put myself back in the closet for 4 years. I'm fine with most religiously affiliated schools, but these schools either highly discourage or outright ban gay students from attending.

I would do most things to become a doctor, but I would never put myself through four years of feeling explicitly unwelcome because of who I am. I already did the whole conservative private school thing for high school and that was bad enough.

Yeah I agree completely. When I said I "couldn't follow their code of conduct" my orientation is part of that. *shudders* I can't even think about going back in the closet. Never again

 

[deleted407021]

Same reason I didn't apply to schools in the South.

That sentiment is incorrect and far too common.

 

[touchpause13]

That sentiment is incorrect and far too common.

Because why exactly?
Should I just take your word for it?

 

[deleted407021]

Because why exactly?
Should I just take your word for it?

Sure. I have lived in the Deep South my whole life and have been educated here. At the risk of unintentionally sounding confrontational, I'll ask what reasons you or others have to hold a negative opinion of us and our institutions?

 

[tantacles]

Sure. I have lived in the Deep South my whole life and have been educated here. At the risk of unintentionally sounding confrontational, I'll ask what reasons you or others have to hold a negative opinion of us and our institutions?

I don't hold a negative view of people in the South. However, institutionalized homophobia is much more common in the South (and, to be fair, other conservative parts of the United States) than it is in the North. That's not to say that any individual medical schools are blatantly homophobic; I imagine the medical schools themselves greatly value diversity, including those of sexual orientation and gender identity.

 

[touchpause13]

Sure. I have lived in the Deep South my whole life and have been educated here. At the risk of unintentionally sounding confrontational, I'll ask what reasons you or others have to hold a negative opinion of us and our institutions?

I lived in Mississippi for a summer and felt uncomfortable. There is a large conservative christian population which tends to be more homophobic than the liberal parts of the north and midwest.

 

[Ruskithin]

I lived in Mississippi for a summer and felt uncomfortable. There is a large conservative christian population which tends to be more homophobic than the liberal parts of the north and midwest.

I've lived in MS for 2 years now and there is a strong conservative Christian culture here. I agree that it might be a formidable place for members of the LGBT community.

In terms of medical school, I think the Southern schools actually present an advantage to medical students. MS has one MD school, for instance, and it isn't very large nor overtly prestigious (although Dr. Guyton, God of Medical Physiology is from here, the first lung transplant was done here, the first heart transplant ever (chimpanzee-to-man) was done here, (the first man-to-man was Stanford, I believe), Dr. Haines of the Haines Neuroanatomy atlas is from here, etc...)
However, the small size and (relative) obscurity of the school make it a great training place for medical students. Med students don't have to compete with as many PGY-1's or residents for attention simply because there aren't that many and, as a result, are able to do things like insert central lines, suture patients, deliver babies (3rd year, 1st week, Ob/gyn rotation) sooner than at USNws top-ranked schools. I'm not sure about doing residency here, but in terms of hands-on, early patient contact and having doctors who don't view medical students as bottom-of-the-food-chain (although we are 🙂 ...MS has been great! Also, considering this is the only Level 1 trauma hospital in the State, this brings it's own advantages as well 🙂

In short, I actually prefer a place like MS to a place like Stanford. I did my undergrad at a top 10 Uni. and felt lost in the crowd. I choose medical schools based on what THEY can do for ME. A prestigious name on your diploma will not compensate for horrendous board scores, or impersonal letters of rec from your attendings. Therefore, the first thing I do when evaluating a school is look at their residency match-list for the past several years, inquire about STEP 1 averages (MS readily provides this info) and ask how they prep students for Boards. Talking with current students helps too.

And because it wouldn't be fair to wax poetic about MS without acknowledging some of its shortcomings....
- Research is hard to get here and (might) be necessary for a competitive residency match.
- BY FAR....I honestly think moving from the Northeast to MS has actually improved my character but Jeeesus (or as the charming Southerners say, Jaysus) MS'ians can't drive worth ****. My blood pressure jumps everytime I get behind the damn wheel. I'll actually take few minutes to "collect" myself before starting the ignition....but...I digress...

Sorry for the book, but here's my 2 cents (and a word of encouragement to anyone attending a MS/Alabama/Louisiana school).

 

[Belcanto]

I don't hold a negative view of people in the South. However, institutionalized homophobia is much more common in the South (and, to be fair, other conservative parts of the United States) than it is in the North. That's not to say that any individual medical schools are blatantly homophobic; I imagine the medical schools themselves greatly value diversity, including those of sexual orientation and gender identity.

In terms of schools in the South, I think it depends. I'm a TX resident (though I've been going to school in NY and actually qualify for residency here, TX is probably the best state to be from for applicants). I'll be applying to all of the Texas schools, and scattered schools in NY and maybe some in Chicago. For me, as long as I end up in a relatively urban environment I'll be happy. I would rather not end up in the rural south, but cities like Houston and New Orleans are great cities to be queer, state politics aside.

 

[Zelda840]

You couldn't pay me to go south. The heat is just unbearable. I'd rather freeze my nips off in Alaska than spend 4 years sweating.

 

[deleted407021]

You couldn't pay me to go south. The heat is just unbearable. I'd rather freeze my nips off in Alaska than spend 4 years sweating.

Yeah, you people from up north get heat stroke in 85 degree weather Once it hits 60 here, though, people break out the bonfires.

But to respond to the actual thread, I wouldn't apply anywhere I wouldn't go. I think I'm applying EDP to a specific school anyway. MCAT scores will determine that, though.

 

[touchpause13]

You couldn't pay me to go south. The heat is just unbearable. I'd rather freeze my nips off in Alaska than spend 4 years sweating.

You and me both

 

[yehhhboiii]

But that means NYMC isn't good, right? 😕

Now comes a really noob question... saying that NYU in the city is bad is the same as saying Columbia is bad?

NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Mt. Sinai, Einstein, and SUNY Downstate are all in the city, albeit in different areas. Whether they're "bad" or not depends on the individual and how much they like the city and/or layout of the school and surrounding area. I have friends at Columbia and NYU med schools who love it there. I love visiting NYC, but I would never want to live there.

nymc is in valhalla which is around a 30 min drive north of the city
it's a little campus that's pretty secluded in a forest. it's pretty much the opposite of nyc

nyu is downtown. it's pretty busy there
columbia is in washington heights which is basically north harlem
cornell is in the upper east side which is the richest part of the city. great place
mount sinai is basically on the border of harlem and the upper east side. good patient population mix
einstein and downstate are basically in the ghetto as well but ones in the bronx and the other is in brooklyn

 

[Dbate]

Yeah, you people from up north get heat stroke in 85 degree weather Once it hits 60 here, though, people break out the bonfires.

But to respond to the actual thread, I wouldn't apply anywhere I wouldn't go. I think I'm applying EDP to a specific school anyway. MCAT scores will determine that, though.

If you want my unsolicited advice, I would strongly argue against going that route.

If you don't get in through EDP, then that means you won't be able to apply to other schools until October--which is extremely late and strongly jeopardizes your chances of acceptance.

Also, the students who get in EDP are likely strong enough to get in the regular route. So there really is no benefit to applying EDP, except that you get a decision early.

I am sure you have researched this before, but search through SDN and look up students who applied EDP. More than a few ended up being rejected and where massively screwed for the application cycle.

My advice is to just not do it regardless of your mcat score.

 

[akaMondo]

I didn't apply outside of the midwest because I don't want to be outside of the midwest. I'd be hard-pressed to leave this wonderful part of the country, even if accepted somewhere.

I'd have a tough time going to the "deep" South. Vocally atheist, and an evolutionary biology major to boot. Scientific ignorance drives me nutso, and hearing a bunch of young earth creationists denying evolution would drive me up a wall.

 

[Redpancreas]

I was just asking because I was considering adding CMU to my list. Is the mission statement really that different than say, Michigan State? I knew there was a focus on serving rural communities but I didn't think it was overly emphasized there compared to other schools.

To be honest, I think you bring up a good point. MSU and CMU do seem to have similar reputations in ways but when I read the mission statements:


MSUCHM: Michigan State University College of Human Medicine is committed to educating exemplary physicians and scholars, discovering and disseminating new knowledge, and providing service at home and abroad. We enhance our communities by providing outstanding primary and specialty care, promoting the dignity and inclusion of all people, and responding to the needs of the medically underserved.


CMU: The CMU College of Medicine will prepare physicians focused on improving access to high quality health care in Michigan with an emphasis on rural and medically-underserved regions. Our graduates will aspire to excellence in providing patient-centered and evidenced-based care to their patients and their communities. We will engage physicians in leading health care transformation, lifelong learning, and team-based education.

It seems like MSUCHM is more all-rounded while CMU emphasizes rural medicine more. In fact, CHM is only known as a rural medicine school because of its prominent rural medicine program but I hear that if you're not in it, you're not necessarily encouraged to do any form of rural medicine...I mean we all want to help the underserved and all medical schools will allow us to do this.

Definitely add Central to your list though. One of my friends has gotten in and told me they have great new facilities, excellent resources, and a new curriculum designed for success. I applied to State but not Central mainly because I thought CHM would have more stuff established, plus the fact that it its match list isn't too bad vs. an uncertain bet from CMU.

 

[Dbate]

I didn't apply outside of the midwest because I don't want to be outside of the midwest. I'd be hard-pressed to leave this wonderful part of the country, even if accepted somewhere.

I'd have a tough time going to the "deep" South. Vocally atheist, and an evolutionary biology major to boot. Scientific ignorance drives me nutso, and hearing a bunch of young earth creationists denying evolution would drive me up a wall.

I've never understood why some people are so bother by creationism. If people want to believe that, then it's fine for them.

As long as textbooks and curriculum are scientifically accurate, it shouldn't matter.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I hear Tulane is a good place.

Tulane is at the same place at LSU New Orleans. I only applied to LSU New Orleans because it's my state school. I honestly don't care for the location of downtown New Orleans. Traffic will be an issue, and parking will be expensive and a issue.