is there any med school you wouldn't go to, even if it was your only acceptance?

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Dbate said:
I've never understood why some people are so bother by creationism. If people want to believe that, then it's fine for them.

As long as textbooks and curriculum are scientifically accurate, it shouldn't matter.
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I can't find this stupid comic right now, but it's pretty much a "circle vs square" situation. Someone is looking at a square, and INSISTING that it is a circle. Nothing you can do will change their opinion, even though they are blatantly and objectively wrong. "This square is a circle". No, no it's not. It's a square. "No, look, this is a circle". But it has four sides and 90 degree angles, it's a square. "I don't care what you say, I truly believe it's a circle". It's frustrating, and as someone who's put YEARS into studying evolution and learning the ins and outs of its merits and flaws, learning genetics and statistics and attending seminars and reading papers, it's infuriating to hear uneducated people try and insist that their flawed view is just as valid as the one held by the scientific community.

Also, if some adult chooses to be an idiot and deny evolution, whatever. But for people to inundate their children with blatantly incorrect information is another thing.
 
Dbate said:
I've never understood why some people are so bother by creationism. If people want to believe that, then it's fine for them.

As long as textbooks and curriculum are scientifically accurate, it shouldn't matter.
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because it's stupid and it goes against everything i stand for
 
akaMondo said:
I didn't apply outside of the midwest because I don't want to be outside of the midwest. I'd be hard-pressed to leave this wonderful part of the country, even if accepted somewhere.

I'd have a tough time going to the "deep" South. Vocally atheist, and an evolutionary biology major to boot. Scientific ignorance drives me nutso, and hearing a bunch of young earth creationists denying evolution would drive me up a wall.
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You're probably equally as annoying as someone who's vocally religious with a divinity degree to boot then
 
sourdoughllama said:
You're probably equally as annoying as someone who's vocally religious with a divinity degree to boot then
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Eh, I'm never the person to bring up religion first. I just don't back down when someone asks me about it. I'm more vocal about evolution. It's amazing the reactions you get to "my major is evolutionary biology" even in 2013. Depending on who's asking, I sometimes lie and say I'm just bio, or microbio which is a subject I've taken extensive coursework in.

"That's a real major?"
"I can't believe how liberal *school name* must be to offer that major?"
"Is there a creationism major? That's not fair, to only tell one side of the debate."
"Wow, how do you reconcile that with Christianity?"
"What do your parents think about that?"
"Did you know Darwin renounced his own theory on his death bed?"
"How did water evolve?"
"If evolution is true, why hasn't my dog evolved thumbs?"
"So you think I came from APES?"

And I live in a fairly relaxed area in the country, too. It's frustrating, that a first world country with many renowned scientific/research institutions has a population with 40% of people who deny evolution.
 
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akaMondo said:
Eh, I'm never the person to bring up religion first. I just don't back down when someone asks me about it. I'm more vocal about evolution. It's amazing the reactions you get to "my major is evolutionary biology" even in 2013.

"That's a real major?"
"I can't believe how liberal *school name* must be to offer that major?"
"Is there a creationism major? That's not fair, to only tell one side of the debate."
"Wow, how do you reconcile that with Christianity?"
"What do your parents think about that?"
"Did you know Darwin renounced his own theory on his death bed?"

And I live in a fairly relaxed area in the country, too. It's frustrating, that such a first world country with many renowned scientific/research institutions has a population with 40% of people who deny evolution.
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Wow people seriously say crap like that to you? Idiots.

Although I once overheard a girl complaining in my genetics course about the prof only teaching evolution and not explaining the "other side of the story"
Im really not sure what she was expecting from a 300 level biology course...
 
touchpause13 said:
Wow people seriously say crap like that to you? Idiots.

Although I once overheard a girl complaining in my genetics course about the prof only teaching evolution and not explaining the "other side of the story"
Im really not sure what she was expecting from a 300 level biology course...
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There were reviews on "RateMyProfessor" for the guy who taught evolutionary biology here. "Very biased". "Only teaches one side". There's not two "sides", there's no "debate". Evolution is a thing that happened, I don't know why people are so violently upset by that.

And yeah, people are idiots. I worked for a boss for 2 years who thought the earth was 6,000 years old. My ex's family rescinded my "Christmas attending" rights when they found out I was evobio, not just bio. The father told me I might as well die tomorrow and go to hell. 👍

I'm always shocked by the angry/ignorant reactions people have to evolution.
 
akaMondo said:
There were reviews on "RateMyProfessor" for the guy who taught evolutionary biology here. "Very biased". "Only teaches one side". There's not two "sides", there's no "debate". Evolution is a thing that happened, I don't know why people are so violently upset by that.

And yeah, people are idiots. I worked for a boss for 2 years who thought the earth was 6,000 years old. My ex's family rescinded my "Christmas attending" rights when they found out I was evobio, not just bio. The father told me I might as well die tomorrow and go to hell. 👍

I'm always shocked by the angry/ignorant reactions people have to evolution.
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that is just horrifying to me. How you can deny all evidence for something so fiercely just blows my mind.

It's always nice to get told you're going to hell too 🙄
 
akaMondo said:
Eh, I'm never the person to bring up religion first. I just don't back down when someone asks me about it. I'm more vocal about evolution. It's amazing the reactions you get to "my major is evolutionary biology" even in 2013. Depending on who's asking, I sometimes lie and say I'm just bio, or microbio which is a subject I've taken extensive coursework in.

"That's a real major?"
"I can't believe how liberal *school name* must be to offer that major?"
"Is there a creationism major? That's not fair, to only tell one side of the debate."
"Wow, how do you reconcile that with Christianity?"
"What do your parents think about that?"
"Did you know Darwin renounced his own theory on his death bed?"
"How did water evolve?"
"If evolution is true, why hasn't my dog evolved thumbs?"
"So you think I came from APES?"

And I live in a fairly relaxed area in the country, too. It's frustrating, that a first world country with many renowned scientific/research institutions has a population with 40% of people who deny evolution.
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:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Dunning-Kruger effect in action! The problem here isn't Christianity (or religion for that matter). The problem is these critics have a superiority complex and are dissing science by advertising their religion. It's really unfortunate as I suspect they're suffering from an undiagnosed neurological disorder.
 
sourdoughllama said:
You're probably equally as annoying as someone who's vocally religious with a divinity degree to boot then
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+1 👍

At least religious people are doing it because they are concerned about your soul or whatever.

This guy probably just does it to be an as*hole.
 
yehhhboiii said:
because it's stupid and it goes against everything i stand for
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That's a lame excuse. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it affects you if other people do.

I bet you're also one of those people who overestimates their intelligence and likes to throw big words in conversations to make yourself seem smarter.

I don't "believe" in evolution because you don't believe in facts. But I am not bothered if other people don't care to believe in it. It really is their personal choice.
 
Dbate said:
I've never understood why some people are so bother by creationism. If people want to believe that, then it's fine for them.

As long as textbooks and curriculum are scientifically accurate, it shouldn't matter.
Click to expand...

Because they have a long history of aggressively trying to influence legislation. If creationists as a group kept to themselves, I guess it wouldn't matter.
 
akaMondo said:
I can't find this stupid comic right now, but it's pretty much a "circle vs square" situation. Someone is looking at a square, and INSISTING that it is a circle. Nothing you can do will change their opinion, even though they are blatantly and objectively wrong. "This square is a circle". No, no it's not. It's a square. "No, look, this is a circle". But it has four sides and 90 degree angles, it's a square. "I don't care what you say, I truly believe it's a circle". It's frustrating, and as someone who's put YEARS into studying evolution and learning the ins and outs of its merits and flaws, learning genetics and statistics and attending seminars and reading papers, it's infuriating to hear uneducated people try and insist that their flawed view is just as valid as the one held by the scientific community.

Also, if some adult chooses to be an idiot and deny evolution, whatever. But for people to inundate their children with blatantly incorrect information is another thing.
Click to expand...

This is the only basis I can see for being upset about other people not accepting evolution.

But science curriculum throughout the country are closely aligned with facts. I went to school in Texas and AP Bio certainly covered evolution regardless of what people's parents (or they) thought.

As an aside, there didn't seem to be much overlap between students taking AP bio and students who thought evolution was just a "theory".
 
On the topic of evolution, I'm actually taking a class based on evolution vs creationism so I'm pretty used to bashing creationism as a glorified pseudoscience. Yet, one thing that is interesting is that creationism is supported only by a small subset of Christianity and Islam... yet other major (and much older) religions like Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism are perfectly compatible (and even endorse) evolution.

Evolution was known before Christianity even existed (i.e. by the ancient Greek philosophers). The problem is when we glorify religion and treat it as science... then things go awry.

Interestingly, creationists dismiss the Big Bang Theory, yet are perfectly happy with string theory, Einstein and Hawking, quantum mechanics etc....

sinombre said:
Because they have a long history of aggressively trying to influence legislation. If creationists as a group kept to themselves, I guess it wouldn't matter.
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Creationists don't believe in separation of church and state. They are messed up from the start.
 
Dbate said:
That's a lame excuse. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it affects you if other people do.

I bet you're also one of those people who overestimates their intelligence and likes to throw big words in conversations to make yourself seem smarter.

I don't "believe" in evolution because you don't believe in facts. But I am not bothered if other people don't care to believe in it. It really is their personal choice.
Click to expand...

We have an angry religious person in the house!

How come pushing religious beliefs is okay because religious people are "sincerely concerned" but pushing life without religion (if I did, which I don't) would make me an "*******"? That's not fair. I'm concerned with many things, including equal rights for gays and women, and quality science education in our schools. Doesn't make me an *******. I don't stand on street corners trying to push my lack of religion on people.

Fairly off-topic, so I won't address this more in this thread, but just something to think about. Religious person proselytizing = genuine, out of concern, vocally atheist = *******? Hmm...
 
Agent B said:
On the topic of evolution, I'm actually taking a class based on evolution vs creationism so I'm pretty used to bashing creationism as a glorified pseudoscience. Yet, one thing that is interesting is that creationism is supported only by a small subset of Christianity and Islam... yet other major (and much older) religions like Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism are perfectly compatible (and even endorse) evolution.

Evolution was known before Christianity even existed (i.e. by the ancient Greek philosophers). The problem is when we glorify religion and treat it as science... then things go awry.

Interestingly, creationists dismiss the Big Bang Theory, yet are perfectly happy with string theory, Einstein and Hawking, quantum mechanics etc....



Creationists don't believe in separation of church and state. They are messed up from the start.
Click to expand...

I always found it interesting how a lot of the older religions are completely fine with evolution, but Christianity and Islam can't seem to let it go. And I'd argue it's not a "small subset".

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

70% of weekly church goers responded with a YEC view of life as we know it. That's concerning. I'm not trying to pick on Christianity, just citing American belief systems and the huge movement here to deny evolution (46% creationism is alarming!) when we don't see that in other developed countries around the world.
 
The seamless transition in this thread from bashing race to bashing religion really is remarkable.
 
akaMondo said:
We have an angry religious person in the house!

How come pushing religious beliefs is okay because religious people are "sincerely concerned" but pushing life without religion (if I did, which I don't) would make me an "*******"? That's not fair. I'm concerned with many things, including equal rights for gays and women, and quality science education in our schools. Doesn't make me an *******. I don't stand on street corners trying to push my lack of religion on people.
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Angry Religious person? LOL, I'm gay and not religious at all.

The difference between you and me is that I'm not an as*hole to other people about their beliefs. It really bothers me when people think it is okay to insult others beliefs. I would feel the same way if someone was being a douche to a muslim person for not eating pork or something.

Fairly off-topic, so I won't address this more in this thread, but just something to think about. Religious person proselytizing = genuine, out of concern, vocally atheist = *******? Hmm...
Click to expand...

There's a clear difference in motives.

A religious person thinks you are going to burn in hell forever if you don't change your beliefs.

You just think they will be stupid if they don't change their beliefs.
 
Dbate said:
Angry Religious person? LOL, I'm gay and not religious at all.

The difference between you and me is that I'm not an as*hole to other people about their beliefs. It really bothers me when people think it is okay to insult others beliefs. I would feel the same way if someone was being a douche to a muslim person for not eating pork or something.



There's a clear difference in motives.

A religious person thinks you are going to burn in hell forever if you don't change your beliefs.

You just think they will be stupid if they don't change their beliefs.
Click to expand...

I'm not being a douche to any religious person for any of their beliefs. Creationism is baseless, and the movement to legislate it into our schools is terrifying. Whether you're religious or not, if you believe in creationism you are choosing to ignore facts and ignore things we know to be true about the world. I don't admire or respect choosing to remain ignorant because what you want to be true conflicts with what is actually true. That goes for religious people or irreligious people. It just so happens in America that the push to teach creationism is fairly tied to a religious movement.
 
akaMondo said:
I always found it interesting how a lot of the older religions are completely fine with evolution, but Christianity and Islam can't seem to let it go. And I'd argue it's not a "small subset".

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

70% of weekly church goers responded with a YEC view of life as we know it. That's concerning. I'm not trying to pick on Christianity, just citing American belief systems and the huge movement here to deny evolution (46% creationism is alarming!) when we don't see that in other developed countries around the world.
Click to expand...

That's depressing.

GoPelicans said:
The seamless transition in this thread from bashing race to bashing religion really is remarkable.
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Pretty neat huh? No one's bashing religion here (in fact, the only religion being bashed is basically fundamentalist religion). And yes, I feel this is a topic worth considering, because medical schools (like Loma Linda and some Southern schools) are notorious for enforcing their fundamentalist perspective into the curriculum. Their social environment is hostile to students who are viewed as "different" or "unusual" (like LGBT). Connecting to the original point, it's clear why many of us hate to go to these schools. Hopefully, they lose their accreditation in the future.
 
Agent B said:
Pretty neat huh? No one's bashing religion here (in fact, the only religion being bashed is basically fundamentalist religion). And yes, I feel this is a topic worth considering, because medical schools (like Loma Linda and some Southern schools) are notorious for enforcing their fundamentalist perspective into the curriculum. Their social environment is hostile to students who are viewed as "different" or "unusual" (like LGBT).
Click to expand...

Bingo. Thanks. I wasn't trying to bash religion, just creationism. Though the two are linked, they are not wed. I'd have a hard time in a fundamentalist environment.

On a side note, I didn't even know about Loma Linda or it's uber-religious values until some girl at my interview last weekend was talking about how horrendous that secondary was. 😱
 
Agent B said:
I'd rather be annoyed by someone preaching me the right thing rather than the wrong thing (aka converting). 😉
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Unless you were there at the big bang or lived 1 billion years straight and kept a pristine lab notebook of dinosaur evolution, I don't think you can be certain evolution is right or wrong. I personally find the evidence pretty damn convincing and would be shocked if it were not true. Scientific data based on the last few hundred years of observations/experiments proves without doubt historical trends of the planet going back billions of years? It's a bit too confident to go parading around as the absolute truth IMO. Like I said, I'm with you guys in the fact that I would be shocked if evolution wasn't real based on evidence, but your argument is flawed based on the premise you assume your theory is absolutely right.
 
I was going to say something along these lines as well, I think people should be careful what terms they use when discussing things like evolution.
 
sourdoughllama said:
Unless you were there at the big bang or lived 1 billion years straight and kept a pristine lab notebook of dinosaur evolution, I don't think you can be certain evolution is right or wrong. I personally find the evidence pretty damn convincing and would be shocked if it were not true. Scientific data based on the last few hundred years of observations/experiments proves without doubt historical trends of the planet going back billions of years? It's a bit too confident to go parading around as the absolute truth IMO. Like I said, I'm with you guys in the fact that I would be shocked if evolution wasn't real based on evidence, but your argument is flawed based on the premise you assume your theory is absolutely right.
Click to expand...

Theories are dynamic, I agree. But you wouldn't make such a bold statement in regards to other theories (like kinetic theory of gases, general relativity, quantum theory etc.). Yes, modern theories are built on modifications from previous theories. Newtonian mechanics was limited but scientifically correct. Theories can change and improve over time.

Isolating evolution and condemning it is sheer stupidity to say the least. The theory is dynamic yes, because breakthroughs in molecular biology confirmed and amended what is called "microevolution". Scientific theories are progressive: they are superseded by a more generalized theory.

However, using religion as a way to justify evolution is flawed only shows that the so-called "scientist" is an incompetent fraud. If a scientific discovery is found that is contrary to the theory, by all means go for it. It's fascinating, but bringing religion into the picture is absolutely disgusting.
 
Dbate said:
+1 👍

At least religious people are doing it because they are concerned about your soul or whatever.

This guy probably just does it to be an as*hole.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if they are actually concerned about your soul over their own. As far as I understand some branches of Christianity, "opening others to Jesus" is an expected path to heaven. So they are doing in it to ensure they end up in a better place.

Regarding being more annoying, I never saw an non-Christian holding a sign that offends others in any way. Hardcore Christians holding a banner that states: "you're all going to Hell" was fairly common sight at my school.
 
I like how a specific question thread has devolved so thoroughly into ridiculous arguements and conversations.

I wouldn't go to a rural school. I like more urban settings. So some DO and a few MD schools would be a no go for me.
 
Dbate said:
If you want my unsolicited advice, I would strongly argue against going that route.

If you don't get in through EDP, then that means you won't be able to apply to other schools until October--which is extremely late and strongly jeopardizes your chances of acceptance.

Also, the students who get in EDP are likely strong enough to get in the regular route. So there really is no benefit to applying EDP, except that you get a decision early.

I am sure you have researched this before, but search through SDN and look up students who applied EDP. More than a few ended up being rejected and where massively screwed for the application cycle.

My advice is to just not do it regardless of your mcat score.
Click to expand...

It will be a bit less than 2 years until I apply so there is a lot of time to see what will happen, visit schools etc. thanks for the input, I'll do some extra research.
 
Zelda840 said:
You couldn't pay me to go south. The heat is just unbearable. I'd rather freeze my nips off in Alaska than spend 4 years sweating.
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+1

Cold weather is amazing! Humidity blows big time. Right now it is cool and crisp and it feels like heaven. Snow is also awesome(shoveling it is a different story haha)

Also, I'm probably the rare gay person that greatly dislikes wanting to live in an urban place...
 
KnuxNole said:
+1

Cold weather is amazing! Humidity blows big time. Right now it is cool and crisp and it feels like heaven. Snow is also awesome(shoveling it is a different story haha)

Also, I'm probably the rare gay person that greatly dislikes wanting to live in an urban place...
Click to expand...

Yes. You are probably the only one. We will leave the rural areas to you. Convert as you will. Gather the people, spread the knowledge of your ways, and fulfill our agenda. I believe in you, my child.
 
tantacles said:
Yes. You are probably the only one. We will leave the rural areas to you. Convert as you will. Gather the people, spread the knowledge of your ways, and fulfill our agenda. I believe in you, my child.
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Knowing me, I'd only convince them to run away to NYC, Chicago, or San Fran :laugh:

Which are nice cities to visit...but wouldn't want to live in. Way too crowded, and like Baby Plucky says, it's too loud 🙁
 
Just as i began to think this thread was a good read and informative, it had to derail. Yay sdn.

EDIT: I take that back!
 
sourdoughllama said:
You're probably equally as annoying as someone who's vocally religious with a divinity degree to boot then
Click to expand...
👍
I agree. Medical schools need to focus on teaching medicine, not the gospel of science over religion or vice versa. In my opinion, religion and science don't have to conflict with one another. Besides, many of our future patients will be religious. We should provide culturally competent care to them even if we don't agree with their beliefs.
As a creationist who believes in evolution as a tool God uses, I'm happy to believe God uses science and gave His children brains to think with and to ponder the world around them. Additionally, parents have every right to teach their children religion AND science.
There is no way anyone will convince a 'vocal' religionist or a atheistic humanist/scientist to change their point of view. So, let's not be overly eager to proselytize the gospel of religion or the gospel of science in this forum. What a waste of time.
 
tantacles said:
yes. You are probably the only one. We will leave the rural areas to you. Convert as you will. Gather the people, spread the knowledge of your ways, and fulfill our agenda. I believe in you, my child.
Click to expand...

+1
 
sourdoughllama said:
unless you were there at the big bang or lived 1 billion years straight and kept a pristine lab notebook of dinosaur evolution, i don't think you can be certain evolution is right or wrong. I personally find the evidence pretty damn convincing and would be shocked if it were not true. Scientific data based on the last few hundred years of observations/experiments proves without doubt historical trends of the planet going back billions of years? It's a bit too confident to go parading around as the absolute truth imo. Like i said, i'm with you guys in the fact that i would be shocked if evolution wasn't real based on evidence, but your argument is flawed based on the premise you assume your theory is absolutely right.
Click to expand...
+1
 
Pandaeac said:
excluding DO or Carribean.
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I would go to any MD or DO school who would take me. I would avoid foreign schools because I don't want to compete for the leftover residency positions.
 
I would be thankful enough to go to any accredited US med school. even the historically black ones. and the ones in bumbletruck nowhere.
 
KnuxNole said:
+1

Cold weather is amazing! Humidity blows big time. Right now it is cool and crisp and it feels like heaven. Snow is also awesome(shoveling it is a different story haha)

Also, I'm probably the rare gay person that greatly dislikes wanting to live in an urban place...
Click to expand...

ehhhh....yeah, probably. 😆 My partner and I both feel a tad uneasy in very rural areas. And honestly, I think I'd feel even weirder about it if I were male. Rednecks can be more forgiving to lesbians, IMO.
 
By the way, I've been noticing all the +1 posts, etc in the forums? Does this site not have a reputation feature or a like/dislike feature? I've never seen a BBS without one.
 
Zelda840 said:
ehhhh....yeah, probably. 😆 My partner and I both feel a tad uneasy in very rural areas. And honestly, I think I'd feel even weirder about it if I were male. Rednecks can be more forgiving to lesbians, IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes they are. But sometimes it comes with a creepy ass vibe (from men anyways)
 
Zelda840 said:
By the way, I've been noticing all the +1 posts, etc in the forums? Does this site not have a reputation feature or a like/dislike feature? I've never seen a BBS without one.
Click to expand...

No. This is not bodybulding.com
 
SunsFun said:
No. This is not bodybulding.com
Click to expand...

Ummm.......ok. Random. Would seeing the +1 as a comment below someone's post instead of in a whole different post offend you somehow? LOL
 
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