Isn't this....CHEATING!?

[quartel]

Got our exam marks back and at least 15 people from my therapeutics class failed the final exam, dooming them to lower their course load next year and being held back.

BUT what happened was a handful of students that failed knew they failed and got a medical note saying they are unable to work/take the exam. Basically they wrote the test, knew they didn't pass, and got a medical note so that they would get special consideration for a make up exam.

Amazingly, our school allowed this and they got to rewrite the test which they failed miserably while others that failed did not get this opportunity. Then when the other failed students asked the professor what they could do he said they had to decrease their course load but casually mentioned that "other students that handed in medical notes got to rewrite it at a later date."

Indirectly the professor is telling the failed students to get a medical note if they want to rewrite the exam.

So my question is...is this cheating? Is my school corrupt? What should be done about it?

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[thedrunkenpharm]

It certainly does sound like dirty pool to me. And why your professor wasn't suspicious over that many notes is beyond me.

But I would say more power to the culprits. They weren't able to pass their second attempt. With all that on their conscience, I would expect that such an incident wouldn't reccur.

I don't really think anything should be done about it since none of culprits succeded. Failing like that is punishment enough.

 

[steveysmith54]

I see two problems here.

1. School/class. I am assuming 15 students is around 10% of your class. That many students failing a therapeutics class and i am sure a lot of students getting C in it indicates a problem with the class/school ( or maybe students that they admit). In my class students need to maintain a 2.75 GPA to graduate and if a student can't pass a therapeutics class they are screwed for when clinical classes, such as oncology/infectious disease roll around.

2. Ever since i was in HS, if you're able to come to school and take an exam, you're healthy and will face the consequences of your scores. period end of discussion.

 

[Charlottefromca]

Yeah i'm not quite sure I understand the situation. So they showed up for the exam, took the exam, failed. Yet they can still get a medical waiver saying that eventhough they took the exam, they were sick and couldn't take the exam?..

I don't get how a school could allow something like this b/c it would basically set a precedent where a student can take an exam, and if they do poor (get a "D" or an "F") they could just go to a doctor's office to get a medical note. No consequences for poor performance.

 

[naseuy]

If they were truly sick, then I doubt they would've been able to haul their asses out of their beds. If they sat through the exam, then it should have counted.

 

[quartel]

Yeah i'm not quite sure I understand the situation. So they showed up for the exam, took the exam, failed. Yet they can still get a medical waiver saying that eventhough they took the exam, they were sick and couldn't take the exam?..

I don't get how a school could allow something like this b/c it would basically set a precedent where a student can take an exam, and if they do poor (get a "D" or an "F") they could just go to a doctor's office to get a medical note. No consequences for poor performance.

yeah absolutely, there is no consequence for failing as long as you are willing to go ask a family doctor friend for a note saying you were medically ill that day. Right now, I'm very split on the issue. On one hand I think these slackers should fail but on the other hand, if I happen to fail I would love nothing more than to abuse this method for myself.

 

[quartel]

It certainly does sound like dirty pool to me. And why your professor wasn't suspicious over that many notes is beyond me.

But I would say more power to the culprits. They weren't able to pass their second attempt. With all that on their conscience, I would expect that such an incident wouldn't reccur.

I don't really think anything should be done about it since none of culprits succeded. Failing like that is punishment enough.

The professor is clearly complicit in this and doesn't care so as long as you give him some official documentation. He went as far as hinting at the failed students on what they could do to get a resit.

I think everyone that wrote the exam, failed, then got a resit have already succeeded. Having a few weeks to study they will surely pass. I can tell you right now that even though 15 student should not be in my therapeutics classes next year, 80% of them will be in it because of the resit. I mean seriously, let's say they do a resit and fail again they can probably just use another medical note.

 

[samuricool]

Cheating? Perhaps. Unethical? Very.

 

[jung1]

sounds like a makeup exam to me...i personally wouldn't want to hold a bunch of students back. the prof could be being nice by giving them a second chance. lord knows we could all have used one at some point. usually those exams have stipulations like they can't get better than a B

since there are unusual circumstances surrounding this, how about arguing that they can only do as good as the minimum passing grade or something there abouts so they don't do better than the 'honest' students?

 

[SHC1984]

Personally if I was the professor I would not allow any make up exams no matter what. If you miss the exam, that's your own damn fault. However, if you do really choose to have make up exams you should make the exam about 1000000X harder than the first one and you should also take the AVERAGE of the first and second exam and that would be the student's grade...that way it is fair to the people that took the first one and did well on it.

 

[themorphinerule]

Oh my school already addressed that.. if you're chronically stupid, mentally inept or otherwise dumb, you MUST have a doctor's note on file at the start of the curriculum saying so. Quizzes are pushed around, but test dates are set in stone and come rain, sleet, hail or high water you take that test and accept the score you get.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Personally if I was the professor I would not allow any make up exams no matter what. If you miss the exam, that's your own damn fault.

You can't think of ANY legitimate reasons a student might miss an exam? None? I know you are never sick and nothing bad ever happens to you (besides having to purchase useless health insurance, having the mall sometimes close early on holidays and sometimes getting a B+ in a class) but other people really do get sick, have to be hospitalized, have deaths in the family, etc. You wouldn't allow a makeup exam in those circumstances?

However, if you do really choose to have make up exams you should make the exam about 1000000X harder than the first one and you should also take the AVERAGE of the first and second exam and that would be the student's grade...that way it is fair to the people that took the first one and did well on it.

I am confused. If a student MISSES an exam and requires a makeup, how could you take the average of the two scores? If they miss an exam, the student wouldn't have a score would they? Unless you are suggesting that whatever the student earns on the makeup exam should be averaged with ZERO to get the actual grade?

 

[FruitFly]

The health professions are a dog-eat-dog world, and the students who figured out a way to get back in the game and try again, I would give mad props for being resourceful. A lot of health care is about being resourceful and these are the people I would want looking for ways around red-tape and systems designed to bring people down. It seems that your school may be the one with the artificial standards that doom too many of your class, and who knows how those standards would compare to other schools.

 

[FruitFly]

yeah absolutely, there is no consequence for failing as long as you are willing to go ask a family doctor friend for a note saying you were medically ill that day. Right now, I'm very split on the issue. On one hand I think these slackers should fail but on the other hand, if I happen to fail I would love nothing more than to abuse this method for myself.

Exactly. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[SHC1984]

You can't think of ANY legitimate reasons a student might miss an exam? None? I know you are never sick and nothing bad ever happens to you (besides having to purchase useless health insurance, having the mall sometimes close early on holidays and sometimes getting a B+ in a class) but other people really do get sick, have to be hospitalized, have deaths in the family, etc. You wouldn't allow a makeup exam in those circumstances?



I am confused. If a student MISSES an exam and requires a makeup, how could you take the average of the two scores? If they miss an exam, the student wouldn't have a score would they? Unless you are suggesting that whatever the student earns on the makeup exam should be averaged with ZERO to get the actual grade?

Maybe if they were REALLY REALLY REALLY sick (like in a hospital) then a make up would be okay. However, most people when they are "sick" they usually are fine, they just don't want to take the exam. (Minor headache isn't sick LOL...)

I only said take the average for the OP's case since he said the students already took the first exam and was going to take the second exam again.

However, there should be something put in place to try to get people to AVOID taking the exam late. Like making the exam harder, longer, and have a shorter time to take it etc. Something has to be put into place or everyone would prefer to take their exam late. LOL...I would make the second exam so hard that the students would be scared to miss their first exam in the first place.

Yeah it sucks that the mall closes at 6pm on Christmas Eve.

 

[Charlottefromca]

You can't think of ANY legitimate reasons a student might miss an exam? None? I know you are never sick and nothing bad ever happens to you (besides having to purchase useless health insurance, having the mall sometimes close early on holidays and sometimes getting a B+ in a class) but other people really do get sick, have to be hospitalized, have deaths in the family, etc. You wouldn't allow a makeup exam in those circumstances?

I agree.. there are some strict *** professors at my school who say they do NOT bend the rules.. but I know my friend was having major personal problems (unexpected death in immediate family) and she let her miss a final exam. And I doubt she made it 10000000000x harder. We are all human and we all are subjected to whatever life might throw our way... I'm glad that particular professor was able to see that, and I have a lot of respect for her.

 

[owlegrad]

The health professions are a dog-eat-dog world, and the students who figured out a way to get back in the game and try again, I would give mad props for being resourceful. A lot of health care is about being resourceful and these are the people I would want looking for ways around red-tape and systems designed to bring people down. It seems that your school may be the one with the artificial standards that doom too many of your class, and who knows how those standards would compare to other schools.

This has to be the most positive spin on being dishonest I have ever heard. You realize that if we take the OP at their word then the students in question are lying about being sick in order to gain an unfair advantage? And these are the people you WANT looking after you? I would want people who either did not need to be dishonest or who choose to be honest even if they "needed" to lie.

You say that a lot of health care is being resourceful, but I would counter that lying and otherwise behaving unethically is not the kind of resourcefulness I want in a health care professional.

Tom-a-toe, tom-ah-toe I guess.

 

[CUninja]

The OP asked three questions:

Is this cheating? No. The students are not trying to deceive the professor and are meeting his/her demands.

Is my school corrupt? No. While this is unusual, schools have wide latitude to do whatever the hell they please, as long as they remain accredited and students are still passing the licensing exam. It is up to the school's administration to determine whether this is on the up-and-up.

What should be done about it? This is the question that needs to be asked. It doesn't sound like the OP has standing to dispute this....either the OP needs to keep passing classes or take advantage of the system that is in place at their school. There is no need to be jealous of the extra chances given to other students...there are much more important things to worry about in life.

My personal feeling on this is that...not everybody DESERVES a second chance, but I would sure appreciate it if I was in a bad situation.

 

[owlegrad]

The OP asked three questions:

Is this cheating? No. The students are not trying to deceive the professor and are meeting his/her demands.

Is my school corrupt? No. While this is unusual, schools have wide latitude to do whatever the hell they please, as long as they remain accredited and students are still passing the licensing exam. It is up to the school's administration to determine whether this is on the up-and-up.

What should be done about it? This is the question that needs to be asked. It doesn't sound like the OP has standing to dispute this....either the OP needs to keep passing classes or take advantage of the system that is in place at their school. There is no need to be jealous of the extra chances given to other students...there are much more important things to worry about in life.

My personal feeling on this is that...not everybody DESERVES a second chance, but I would sure appreciate it if I was in a bad situation.

Lying =/= to deceiving? Or do you take the students at their word they were too sick to take the test, even though they did in fact take said test?

I agree that the OP probably has better things to do then stress about what others are doing. Life is much easier when you only worry about yourself and not everyone else too.

 

[CUninja]

Lying =/= to deceiving? Or do you take the students at their word they were too sick to take the test, even though they did in fact take said test?

I agree that the OP probably has better things to do then stress about what others are doing. Life is much easier when you only worry about yourself and not everyone else too.

I interpreted the OP as saying that the professor knew and was complicit in allowing the students to retake the exam, and just used the doctor's note as a means to an end.

I wouldn't have a doctor write an illegitimate note, but that's just me. I just don't see it as cheating when the professor is involved. Ethically gray? Definitely. Cheating? I don't think so.

 

[owlegrad]

I interpreted the OP as saying that the professor knew and was complicit in allowing the students to retake the exam, and just used the doctor's note as a means to an end.

I wouldn't have a doctor write an illegitimate note, but that's just me. I just don't see it as cheating when the professor is involved. Ethically gray? Definitely. Cheating? I don't think so.

I see your point.

 

[343533]

How is this not cheating...if they had MISSED the exam date and brought a note, that's one thing. But getting more time to study after they took the test? That's messed up.

 

[ucrx]

Maybe if they were REALLY REALLY REALLY sick (like in a hospital) then a make up would be okay. However, most people when they are "sick" they usually are fine, they just don't want to take the exam. (Minor headache isn't sick LOL...)

What about a student with the flu or norovirus? These don't require hospitalization, but it would make an exam extremely difficult (and would involve spreading germs). How about a student who just got cortisone injections to treat a chronic wrist condition and for the first time ever had ridiculous swelling to the point that they can't write or even bubble in an answer sheet?

These all happened at my school without hospitalization. Luckily professors are reasonable and know life happens.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think it shouldn't be easy to take a makeup exam, but professors should be reasonable.

 

[quartel]

this is the ethical issue: The professor is basically telling the students (indirectly) that the only way they will get to resit the exam is if they have a doctor's note. So now, go out there and get yourself a illegitimate doctor's note however you can get it so that I may give you another exam.

Am I the only person that sees a problem with this?

 

[owlegrad]

this is the ethical issue: The professor is basically telling the students (indirectly) that the only way they will get to resit the exam is if they have a doctor's note. So now, go out there and get yourself a illegitimate doctor's note however you can get it so that I may give you another exam.

Am I the only person that sees a problem with this?

OK, I am just making stuff up here, but it sounds like some students benefited from lying about being sick. Perhaps (just maybe) the professor was then forced to let them resit the exam (maybe by a dean or some such) and was so pissed about it he let it slip to the class that anyone would get to resit the exam if they had a doctor's note. In other words, he may have been trying to level the playing field, so to speak. Just a thought.

 

[FruitFly]

Tom-a-toe, tom-ah-toe I guess.

Yeah exactly, tomato- potato.

 

[ucrx]

OK, I am just making stuff up here, but it sounds like some students benefited from lying about being sick. Perhaps (just maybe) the professor was then forced to let them resit the exam (maybe by a dean or some such) and was so pissed about it he let it slip to the class that anyone would get to resit the exam if they had a doctor's note. In other words, he may have been trying to level the playing field, so to speak. Just a thought.

That's a good thought. Who knows what happened on the faculty side of things.

 

[Charlottefromca]

this is the ethical issue: The professor is basically telling the students (indirectly) that the only way they will get to resit the exam is if they have a doctor's note. So now, go out there and get yourself a illegitimate doctor's note however you can get it so that I may give you another exam.

Am I the only person that sees a problem with this?

No you aren't.

If the professor wants a re-take exam because the professor and/or faculty/admin do not feel comfortable having 10-15 students fail out of school. Thats great. I'm all for 2nd chances.. if 10-15 people fail a class, there is probably something wrong with the teaching/test.

But call it what it is... a re-take and do not disguise it behind a doctor's note.. thats just shady and can lead to potential problems for future exams.

 

[quartel]

The test was difficult but not something it was difficult to get a 50% in. Most of the people that failed were known slackers that either didn't attend class, or people that simply didn't study at all. My housemate was watching TV and movies everyday and when he wasn't doing that he was distracted with his girlfriend. Now he's looking at the prospect of graduating 1 year later than the rest of the class. He can't even find a doctor that's willing to write him a sick note for an exam date that was 2~3 weeks ago.

 

[jyso]

Im surprised your school didnt have them stay back a year. My school didnt care about how many students they would hold back because to them (the school) it meant an extra year's worth of tuition.

They cheated the system and knew how to play the system, so I consider them to be actually smart bc they knew how to work around the "system". But what comes around goes around. I believe in karma, so even if they pass now.. sooner or later them being lazy or not being qualified for being in pharmacy school will catch up to them...

 

[quartel]

I believe in karma, so even if they pass now.. sooner or later them being lazy or not being qualified for being in pharmacy school will catch up to them...

One of people that I failed has already previously failed another exam in micro. He's doing the same trick and not sweating it.

 

[SHC1984]

What about a student with the flu or norovirus? These don't require hospitalization, but it would make an exam extremely difficult (and would involve spreading germs). How about a student who just got cortisone injections to treat a chronic wrist condition and for the first time ever had ridiculous swelling to the point that they can't write or even bubble in an answer sheet?

These all happened at my school without hospitalization. Luckily professors are reasonable and know life happens.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think it shouldn't be easy to take a makeup exam, but professors should be reasonable.

Okay, under certain extreme (rare) circumstances the student can retake the exam, but the point is if you get to "retake" that exam you are consider very lucky and there should be something to counter that. The exam should be made much more diffcult to compensate for the fact that the student got to take his exam at a later date. There should always be a penalty when people don't follow the rule. I mean if you pay your credit card bill late do you really think there won't be any late fees?

 

[R2pharmD2]

That's a good thought. Who knows what happened on the faculty side of things.

It's ridiculous that people would be allowed to "make-up" an exam they already took. Like a previous poster mentioned, if you want to give students a chance for a retake, then just call it a retake and offer it to every student who failed while you're at it. I'm not normally one to see conspiracy in everything, but this really does sound suspicious to me. Is this a new school? I know a school that has yet to graduate its first class that was letting students have as many retakes as necessary to pass their exams. They know how important it is for them to have good graduation rates and are doing everything in their power to pass their students, but at least they weren't giving retakes under the guise of make-ups. It could just be one overly generous professor here, or it could be coming under pressure from higher ups to pass students by any means necessary to make sure their stats look good to applicants (and/or for accreditation purposes).

 

[ucrx]

Okay, under certain extreme (rare) circumstances the student can retake the exam, but the point is if you get to "retake" that exam you are consider very lucky and there should be something to counter that. The exam should be made much more diffcult to compensate for the fact that the student got to take his exam at a later date. There should always be a penalty when people don't follow the rule. I mean if you pay your credit card bill late do you really think there won't be any late fees?

If you limit retakes to extreme circumstances, do you think the exam should still be harder? I know this doesn't apply to the OP, I'm just curious what you think.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

If you limit retakes to extreme circumstances, do you think the exam should still be harder? I know this doesn't apply to the OP, I'm just curious what you think.

Yes, I'm not sure why it should be SO much harder. If someone is hospitalized or at a funeral, they aren't going to be using that time to study extra hard to gain an advantage. Is that what people are worried about? "OH NO SOMEONE HAD EXTRA TIME THEY MIGHT DO BETTER THAN MEEEE???" Because that's silly. I'm sure most people would prefer to take the test on time rather than deal with being in the hospital or having a loved one die.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I mean if you pay your credit card bill late do you really think there won't be any late fees?

Did you really just compare an educated professor to the credit card companies?! That's totally whack.

 

[quartel]

Did you really just compare an educated professor to the credit card companies?! That's totally whack.

actually... the amount of student debt in the US is equivalent of the amount of credit card debt. The line between colleges and credit card companies is becoming blurred.

 

[ucrx]

Yes, I'm not sure why it should be SO much harder. If someone is hospitalized or at a funeral, they aren't going to be using that time to study extra hard to gain an advantage. Is that what people are worried about? "OH NO SOMEONE HAD EXTRA TIME THEY MIGHT DO BETTER THAN MEEEE???" Because that's silly. I'm sure most people would prefer to take the test on time rather than deal with being in the hospital or having a loved one die.

This is exactly my point.

 

[PharmDstudent]

actually... the amount of student debt in the US is equivalent of the amount of credit card debt. The line between colleges and credit card companies is becoming blurred.

So how exactly is a professor's decision to penalize students equivalent to a credit card company's decision to charge a late fee? Please. Enlighten me.

 

[quartel]

So how exactly is a professor's decision to penalize students equivalent to a credit card company's decision to charge a late fee? Please. Enlighten me.

The credit card company has a policy they adhere to. The professor similarly adheres to the school policy regarding matters on ethics and fairness when it comes to rescheduling an examination. I know of some schools that set policy that penalize students very harshly for missing an exam. It's not really the professor's decision to penalize students but rather protocol given to them from above. Some schools set policy that tell the professor they aren't allowed to give resits and instead guesstimate what their mark based on previous performance. Every school is different. Some schools don't even have a formal process to appeal for special circumstances.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

actually... the amount of student debt in the US is equivalent of the amount of credit card debt. The line between colleges and credit card companies is becoming blurred.

The amount of student loan debt and credit card debt is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

The credit card company has a policy they adhere to. The professor similarly adheres to the school policy regarding matters on ethics and fairness when it comes to rescheduling an examination. I know of some schools that set policy that penalize students very harshly for missing an exam. It's not really the professor's decision to penalize students but rather protocol given to them from above. Some schools set policy that tell the professor they aren't allowed to give resits and instead guesstimate what their mark based on previous performance. Every school is different. Some schools don't even have a formal process to appeal for special circumstances.

This point makes a bit more sense, although I still think your comparison is weak. The credit card company is a large, impersonal, faceless organization. Late charges are generated by computer and everyone who is late is automatically charged, regardless of why or how they were late (although you can call and get those charges reversed under certain circumstances).

A university professor is a thinking, feeling human being who has the ability to listen to and evaluate a student's individual circumstances before making a decision about a make up exam or a retake. I think that's the point PharmDstudent was making. A university professor is not the same thing as a computer automatically assigning fees.

 

[PharmDstudent]

The amount of student loan debt and credit card debt is totally irrelevant to this discussion.



This point makes a bit more sense, although I still think your comparison is weak. The credit card company is a large, impersonal, faceless organization. Late charges are generated by computer and everyone who is late is automatically charged, regardless of why or how they were late (although you can call and get those charges reversed under certain circumstances).

A university professor is a thinking, feeling human being who has the ability to listen to and evaluate a student's individual circumstances before making a decision about a make up exam or a retake. I think that's the point PharmDstudent was making. A university professor is not the same thing as a computer automatically assigning fees.

Right.
And, the credit card companies are driven by profit, which late fees can earn. Professors do not earn anything by penalizing students, and giving out penalties to students does not make a professor better at his/her job. Therefore, leniency should not be frowned upon, as long as it's warranted.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I had to take a make-up exam in pharmacy school because of an abscessed tooth. The pain had gotten so bad that I couldn't think clearly.

The make-up was written. I went in with a 102 from the first exam and failed the written make-up. At first, I only received one professor's grading from my written exam, but then I received a final grade for the exam, which was like a 45. I never received or was able to view the other professor's grading, and it just so happened that that professor quit at the end of that semester.

What did I make in the class overall? A "B". Did I care that I didn't make an "A"? No, not really.

I was just happy that I had went to an endodontist for my root canal...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Right.
And, the credit card companies are driven by profit, which late fees can earn. Professors do not earn anything by penalizing students, and giving out penalties to students does not make a professor better at his/her job. Therefore, leniency should not be frowned upon, as long as it's warranted.

I guess the only way that leniency might cost something is in the professor time and effort required to give the makeup exam and/or make a new exam (if needed).

I actually switched pharmacy schools over this issue. I had withdrawn from one school in August 2008 after my daughter was killed and intended to re-enroll in August 2009. Then, the court scheduled the trial of the man who killed her for December 2009. It was the same time as Fall finals. Victims get no input into the scheduling process, so I was stuck. My school said that they couldn't accomodate that and would not allow me to take the exams early or late. So I called the Dean of my current (new) school and explained the situation. Not only did they allow me to transfer, but they agreed provide finals at an alternate time so that I could attend the trial. I did my part and finished the majority of my coursework before Thanksgiving, had the first part of December off for the trial and took my finals about a week after the rest of my class. It certainly didn't give me any ADVANTAGE to take them late as I did exactly NO studying while attending the murder trial. Who could go home and study after that? I only studied the weekend after the trial. My tests were different from the ones the rest of my class took but I don't know that they were necessarily harder. I did OK on them. Not great, and certainly not as well as I would have done under different circumstances. I know it took a lot of time and effort for my professors to write TWO different finals for each class and I'm very grateful for that.

 

[fullmetalphrm]

I guess the only way that leniency might cost something is in the professor time and effort required to give the makeup exam and/or make a new exam (if needed).

I actually switched pharmacy schools over this issue. I had withdrawn from one school in August 2008 after my daughter was killed and intended to re-enroll in August 2009. Then, the court scheduled the trial of the man who killed her for December 2009. It was the same time as Fall finals. Victims get no input into the scheduling process, so I was stuck. My school said that they couldn't accomodate that and would not allow me to take the exams early or late. So I called the Dean of my current (new) school and explained the situation. Not only did they allow me to transfer, but they agreed provide finals at an alternate time so that I could attend the trial. I did my part and finished the majority of my coursework before Thanksgiving, had the first part of December off for the trial and took my finals about a week after the rest of my class. It certainly didn't give me any ADVANTAGE to take them late as I did exactly NO studying while attending the murder trial. Who could go home and study after that? I only studied the weekend after the trial. My tests were different from the ones the rest of my class took but I don't know that they were necessarily harder. I did OK on them. Not great, and certainly not as well as I would have done under different circumstances. I know it took a lot of time and effort for my professors to write TWO different finals for each class and I'm very grateful for that.

That's good to hear that even at the graduate level professors still realize that their students are actual people who do experience pressing situations. I'm glad they allowed you to make arrangements so that an entire semester/year would not go down the drain, and that you were able to keep your head above water considering everything that had happened.

 

[JimmyDean]

ya

 

[lomauin]

It all depends on the school people. Some places professor only need to love the clowns of the class so you can easily get away with good grades and excellent letters of recommendations. I got some friends that just make up problems so they don't need to take exams. The instructors just gave them free points & told them to not stress out. We also use notes and other cheating materials from upperclassmen so you only need to drag your behinds to school and make sure you rock by association. That was how I rose from a dumb little kid with bad background and useless ill-mannered family members to standing before all kinds of people and going down my list of achievements.