It's Complicated

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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URMed89

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As the title states, this is a complicated situation. I just completed an SMP this month, I didn't do well. I received my degree, but with a 2.96 cumulative gpa. I was working full time as a research associate, 40 hours a week. Currently in the middle of a clinical trial with one of the top cancer hospitals in the nation.

Some background, I am Hispanic, not born here but permanent resident as of 5 years ago. I am also married and have a young child. I have a lot of volunteer work, in hospital, nursing home, and in underserved communities as health educator. I also volunteer as an interpreter in a clinic. I did research for a year in undergrad, molecular bio though not published.

Undergrad I did ok, 3.3 gpa, sgpa3.5. I have taken the mcat once, wasn't able to study due to lack of resources for study material/ buying practice exams, despite that I did what I could and took the mcat in 2016 got a 500. During undergrad I had 3 part time jobs working 45 hours most weeks, needless to say sleep was a luxury.

My question is, what should my next steps be? Did I ruin my chances by getting a low gpa in smp due to full time work? I love what I do, scientific research is very fulfilling, but to be honest I would love to be with the patient, helping directly. Any comments/questions/advice is welcomed. Thank you for reading this.
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URMed89 said:
As the title states, this is a complicated situation. I just completed an SMP this month, I didn't do well. I received my degree, but with a 2.96 cumulative gpa. I was working full time as a research associate, 40 hours a week. Currently in the middle of a clinical trial with one of the top cancer hospitals in the nation.

Some background, I am Hispanic, not born here but permanent resident as of 5 years ago. I am also married and have a young child. I have a lot of volunteer work, in hospital, nursing home, and in underserved communities as health educator. I also volunteer as an interpreter in a clinic. I did research for a year in undergrad, molecular bio though not published.

Undergrad I did ok, 3.3 gpa, sgpa3.5. I have taken the mcat once, wasn't able to study due to lack of resources for study material/ buying practice exams, despite that I did what I could and took the mcat in 2016 got a 500. During undergrad I had 3 part time jobs working 45 hours most weeks, needless to say sleep was a luxury.

My question is, what should my next steps be? Did I ruin my chances by getting a low gpa in smp due to full time work? I love what I do, scientific research is very fulfilling, but to be honest I would love to be with the patient, helping directly. Any comments/questions/advice is welcomed. Thank you for reading this.
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I hate to say it, but likely. You can give it a shot. Others can comment on the bad SMP performance better than I
 
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I agree with the other posters that you are in a very poor position after your SMP and were in a far better one after completing undergrad.

Have you looked into translational research programs? Translational researchers have direct patient contact while performing clinical and basic science research.
 
URMed89 said:
As the title states, this is a complicated situation. I just completed an SMP this month, I didn't do well. I received my degree, but with a 2.96 cumulative gpa. I was working full time as a research associate, 40 hours a week. Currently in the middle of a clinical trial with one of the top cancer hospitals in the nation.

Some background, I am Hispanic, not born here but permanent resident as of 5 years ago. I am also married and have a young child. I have a lot of volunteer work, in hospital, nursing home, and in underserved communities as health educator. I also volunteer as an interpreter in a clinic. I did research for a year in undergrad, molecular bio though not published.

Undergrad I did ok, 3.3 gpa, sgpa3.5. I have taken the mcat once, wasn't able to study due to lack of resources for study material/ buying practice exams, despite that I did what I could and took the mcat in 2016 got a 500. During undergrad I had 3 part time jobs working 45 hours most weeks, needless to say sleep was a luxury.

My question is, what should my next steps be? Did I ruin my chances by getting a low gpa in smp due to full time work? I love what I do, scientific research is very fulfilling, but to be honest I would love to be with the patient, helping directly. Any comments/questions/advice is welcomed. Thank you for reading this.
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I can't sugar coat this: Find a different career. You had your shot, did your best, and that's all you can do. But if you were admitted to med school, you'd very likely fail out.
If you're interested in the health sciences, you had:
Podaitry
nursing
Lab techs
Occupational therapy
Physical therapy
Respiratory/auditory/cardiology/radiology etc etc techs

Or stay in research.
 
If I were you I'd take the MCAT one last time. Make it your number one priority and if you can do well then I'd give the DO schools one shot. Only apply to the newest schools and a few more established ones.

I say all this assuming you understand that once med school were to start you must put all of your effort into it. No job, research, extracurriculars, etc. If you can't do that then look for a plan B. Family time will suffer, it is inevitable.
 
kamakazi5 said:
If I were you I'd take the MCAT one last time. Make it your number one priority and if you can do well then I'd give the DO schools one shot. Only apply to the newest schools and a few more established ones.

I say all this assuming you understand that once med school were to start you must put all of your effort into it. No job, research, extracurriculars, etc. If you can't do that then look for a plan B. Family time will suffer, it is inevitable.
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This advice is so bad it is malicious.
 
URMed89 said:
As the title states, this is a complicated situation. I just completed an SMP this month, I didn't do well. I received my degree, but with a 2.96 cumulative gpa. I was working full time as a research associate, 40 hours a week. Currently in the middle of a clinical trial with one of the top cancer hospitals in the nation.

Some background, I am Hispanic, not born here but permanent resident as of 5 years ago. I am also married and have a young child. I have a lot of volunteer work, in hospital, nursing home, and in underserved communities as health educator. I also volunteer as an interpreter in a clinic. I did research for a year in undergrad, molecular bio though not published.

Undergrad I did ok, 3.3 gpa, sgpa3.5. I have taken the mcat once, wasn't able to study due to lack of resources for study material/ buying practice exams, despite that I did what I could and took the mcat in 2016 got a 500. During undergrad I had 3 part time jobs working 45 hours most weeks, needless to say sleep was a luxury.

My question is, what should my next steps be? Did I ruin my chances by getting a low gpa in smp due to full time work? I love what I do, scientific research is very fulfilling, but to be honest I would love to be with the patient, helping directly. Any comments/questions/advice is welcomed. Thank you for reading this.
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I would reach out to admissions offices at some of the DO schools and see what they would like to see from you. Phrase it as "here is my situation, what can I do to be the most competitive applicant?"
I would start there and see what they say.
 
Thanks for the comments. I know it was a horrible decision to work full time while doing the grad program, which is what really kills me. I know I could have Aced it if I didnt have financial obligations 🙁. That being said I know I would be able to do well in med school courses because those are the courses I took while working 40hrs a week. Is there any way to show this to admissions?? Or ask what they think? that I was working 40 hrs a week while taking half of first year medical courses and still got the smp degree?
 
Palmyra said:
I would reach out to admissions offices at some of the DO schools and see what they would like to see from you. Phrase it as "here is my situation, what can I do to be the most competitive applicant?"
I would start there and see what they say.
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You just answered me as I posted the question. Thank you! Is it difficult to talk to admissions? How does that work??
 
Your original stats were about average for Hispanic matriculants to DO school in 2017. There was simply no reason for you to have entered an SMP program. Someone must have given you awful advice.

For what it's worth, I disagree with some of the assessments above. Getting a 3.0 SMP GPA while working full time doesn't mean you'll flunk out of medical school; after all, you won't be working while you're in medical school (I hope).

You shot yourself in the foot, but I think you still have a chance. Adequately prepare for the MCAT and re-take, and enroll in some more graduate-level courses in the biomedical sciences and get A's. (Also, write a letter to DO schools to explain your financial hardship and the circumstances surrounding your past poor performance -- and why they won't affect you while you're in medical school.)
 
First, I don’t know why you didn’t just apply with your original stats. You didn’t need the SMP.

Second, you working full-time during your audition for medical school (SMP) cost you your chance to be a doctor.

Honestly you can apply as is and see if you get lucky with a DO school but chances are you need to find a different career path.
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
First, I don’t know why you didn’t just apply with your original stats. You didn’t need the SMP.

Second, you working full-time during your audition for medical school (SMP) cost you your chance to be a doctor.

Honestly you can apply as is and see if you get lucky with a DO school but chances are you need to find a different career path.
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I was given horrible advice, I was told my stats weren't good enough, so I last minute applied and got in. I had no choice but to work to pay for daycare, bills, car, food, etc
 
URMed89 said:
I was given horrible advice, I was told my stats weren't good enough, so I last minute applied and got in. I had no choice but to work to pay for daycare, bills, car, food, etc
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I get it. I’m a dad too so I get it but it doesn’t change the fact that you should have gotten a loan. Your only chance at getting into medical school now is to apply to every DO program in the country and hope you get lucky.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I get it. I’m a dad too so I get it but it doesn’t change the fact that you should have gotten a loan. Your only chance at getting into medical school now is to apply to every DO program in the country and hope you get lucky.
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Thank you very much. I'll try to talk to admissions, and explain my situation. There are a lot of should haves I keep beating myself up over, but in the end it's done. Now I'll see what happens after admission conversations. Thank you all for your advice/opinions
 
sb247 said:
Cost of living loans should have covered a modest salary and childcare is an allowable increase over the standard cost of living
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Good to know. I have never taken out loans and was not well informed, I would have definitely gone that route
 
As good as this advice sound, i would have to agree with @Goro here.

Yeah OP, you shot yourself in the foot. I def agree with @Osminog when he says that you could do better in medical school granted that you dont work. But looking at the application process, i am afraid that you might not make it through the screens. Like, the first thing that they read is the primary app, and i feel like you'd have a hard time explaining why medicine and the low grad gpa under 3400 chars.

Remember how do you expect an adcom to take the fact that you work both during undergad and grad school but had a lower gpa in grad school?

But anything is possible if you put your mind to it, but is it worth what you would be missing?

Osminog said:
Your original stats were about average for Hispanic matriculants to DO school in 2017. There was simply no reason for you to have entered an SMP program. Someone must have given you awful advice.

For what it's worth, I disagree with some of the assessments above. Getting a 3.0 SMP GPA while working full time doesn't mean you'll flunk out of medical school; after all, you won't be working while you're in medical school (I hope).

You shot yourself in the foot, but I think you still have a chance. Adequately prepare for the MCAT and re-take, and enroll in some more graduate-level courses in the biomedical sciences and get A's. (Also, write a letter to DO schools to explain your financial hardship and the circumstances surrounding your past poor performance -- and why they won't affect you while you're in medical school.)
Click to expand...
 
sb247 said:
Cost of living loans should have covered a modest salary and childcare is an allowable increase over the standard cost of living
Click to expand...
Like I said, a lot of should haves, but unfortunately nothing I can do about that now. I have a great career now as a researcher, but honestly I know I'm not done fighting for my dream career. I'll see what can be done, I'll keep everyone posted and see if I can help anyone else also in my situation. I was an undocumented student for so long, working odd jobs and crazy hours to get to where I am now. I am definitely motivated and have a lot of perseverance even when people told me I would never get an undergrad degree because of my status, but like I said I also don't want to waste my time and money.
 
Trollest said:
As good as this advice sound, i would have to agree with @Goro here.

Yeah OP, you shot yourself in the foot. I def agree with @Osminog when he says that you could do better in medical school granted that you dont work. But looking at the application process, i am afraid that you might not make it through the screens. Like, the first thing that they read is the primary app, and i feel like you'd have a hard time explaining why medicine and the low grad gpa under 3400 chars.

Remember how do you expect an adcom to take the fact that you work both during undergad and grad school but had a lower gpa in grad school?

But anything is possible if you put your mind to it, but is it worth what you would be missing?
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Sound advice. I had my daughter in undergrad, and let me tell you it's easier when they are little. As she has gotten older it became almost impossible to get anything done. As she's getting ready to start kindergarten this fall, I see it as an opportunity to actually be able to study. with her in school, I think it makes it a lot easier time wise and financially. Not to mention my husband and I were struggling in our marriage while in the grad program. Too many factors and horrible timing.
 
URMed89 said:
As the title states, this is a complicated situation. I just completed an SMP this month, I didn't do well. I received my degree, but with a 2.96 cumulative gpa. I was working full time as a research associate, 40 hours a week. Currently in the middle of a clinical trial with one of the top cancer hospitals in the nation.

Some background, I am Hispanic, not born here but permanent resident as of 5 years ago. I am also married and have a young child. I have a lot of volunteer work, in hospital, nursing home, and in underserved communities as health educator. I also volunteer as an interpreter in a clinic. I did research for a year in undergrad, molecular bio though not published.

Undergrad I did ok, 3.3 gpa, sgpa3.5. I have taken the mcat once, wasn't able to study due to lack of resources for study material/ buying practice exams, despite that I did what I could and took the mcat in 2016 got a 500. During undergrad I had 3 part time jobs working 45 hours most weeks, needless to say sleep was a luxury.

My question is, what should my next steps be? Did I ruin my chances by getting a low gpa in smp due to full time work? I love what I do, scientific research is very fulfilling, but to be honest I would love to be with the patient, helping directly. Any comments/questions/advice is welcomed. Thank you for reading this.
Click to expand...
Your career is over from the medicine end. Could go APRN. With your stats, PA is unlikely.
 
URMed89 said:
Sound advice. I had my daughter in undergrad, and let me tell you it's easier when they are little. As she has gotten older it became almost impossible to get anything done. As she's getting ready to start kindergarten this fall, I see it as an opportunity to actually be able to study. with her in school, I think it makes it a lot easier time wise and financially. Not to mention my husband and I were struggling in our marriage while in the grad program. Too many factors and horrible timing.
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I still think you being a Hispanic applicant with a story like this it is sill worth applying to every school and seeing if you get any nibbles.

Honestly you need to think if medicine is really what you want. My wife and I have a good marriage and medical school is a constant strain. Your husband would need to take over all the duties associated with day to day parenting. Is he ready to do that? Are you?

The issues that hampered your SMP performance are going to be even more magnified in medical school.
 
URMed89 said:
Like I said, a lot of should haves, but unfortunately nothing I can do about that now. I have a great career now as a researcher, but honestly I know I'm not done fighting for my dream career. I'll see what can be done, I'll keep everyone posted and see if I can help anyone else also in my situation. I was an undocumented student for so long, working odd jobs and crazy hours to get to where I am now. I am definitely motivated and have a lot of perseverance even when people told me I would never get an undergrad degree because of my status, but like I said I also don't want to waste my time and money.
Click to expand...

Over the past few years, I have seen quite a few users on SDN posting about their low SMP GPA's, and the SDN community gave them the same feedback that it's giving you right now (i.e., that no medical school would consider them, that they should consider a different career, that they threw away their last chance, etc.).

Also, I know for a fact that at least some (certainly not all) of these users were ultimately able to get into medical school -- usually by doing an extra post-bacc or SMP and/or boosting their MCAT scores. It took them an extra year or two, but they were able to reinvent themselves and push themselves through the door.

I admire your drive and resilience. If you share your challenging path with adcoms, I think they'll listen; after all, your life experiences will enable you to connect with disadvantaged, underserved patients whom someone like me would have a great deal of trouble connecting with.

I really hope you come back to this thread in a couple of years and share some good news with us. I'm rooting for you!
 
So am i, but as an adviser would you recommend it?
Osminog said:
Over the past few years, I have seen quite a few users on SDN posting about their low SMP GPA's, and the SDN community gave them the same feedback that it's giving you right now (i.e., that no medical school would consider them, that they should consider a different career, that they threw away their last chance, etc.).

Also, I know for a fact that at least some (certainly not all) of these users were ultimately able to get into medical school -- usually by doing an extra post-bacc or SMP and/or boosting their MCAT scores. It took them an extra year or two, but they were able to reinvent themselves and push themselves through the door.

I admire your drive and resilience. If you share your challenging path with adcoms, I think they'll listen; after all, your life experiences will enable you to connect with disadvantaged, underserved patients whom someone like me would have a great deal of trouble connecting with.

I really hope you come back to this thread in a couple of years and share some good news with us. I'm rooting for you!
Click to expand...
 
At the very least, you can explain in your application that you were working full-time, which heavily adversely impacted your SMP grades. On the bright side, your undergrad GPA is good enough for DO. MCAT retake would possibly help you, assuming you do well. The rumor is that DO schools are likely to look holistically at your application, so one number-low area won't necessarily kill you if you apply broadly enough, even if it was the most recent grades.

Like what other people already said, being URM will also probably work in your favor. The fact that you have strong extracurriculars would help, too.
 
I’m more concerned with the judgment you displayed in enrolling in an SMP (which you didn’t need) and then choosing to further this bad decision by not committing to it fully.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Balo said:
At the very least, you can explain in your application that you were working full-time, which heavily adversely impacted your SMP grades. On the bright side, your undergrad GPA is good enough for DO. MCAT retake would possibly help you, assuming you do well. The rumor is that DO schools are likely to look holistically at your application, so one number-low area won't necessarily kill you if you apply broadly enough, even if it was the most recent grades.

Like what other people already said, being URM will also probably work in your favor. The fact that you have strong extracurriculars would help, too.
Click to expand...

DO schools look holistically at your application until you pull a 2.98 GPA in easier-than-medical-school classes offered through an SMP. Then, realistically, your application gets thrown in the trash heap.
 
What would be different if you do end up in the med school? Based on your SMP, you will most likely fail out. So, the question now, should be if you can survive the med school not how to get I to one. I would be afraid to go to med school with such SMP GPA because I could fail out and end up with debt. At least for your own self you should prove that you can candle med school curriculum.
 
PashaOdesit said:
What would be different if you do end up in the med school? Based on your SMP, you will most likely fail out. So, the question now, should be if you can survive the med school not how to get I to one. I would be afraid to go to med school with such SMP GPA because I could fail out and end up with debt. At least for your own self you should prove that you can candle med school curriculum.
Click to expand...

She was working full time during the SMP, so her SMP GPA probably isn't a good indicator of her abilities.
 
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Osminog said:
She was working full time during the SMP, do her SMP GPA probably isn't a good indicator of her abilities.
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Actually, just seen her 3.3 cGPA and 3.5 sGPA with 500 MCAT, I think she has chances for some DO schools. But, that low SMP GPA will still be questioned for sure.
 
I hate to pile on, but I think your app is a nonstarter. Can't fathom why you enrolled in an SMP. Your stats were mediocre to marginal, but probably good enough to eke out a DO acceptance before it.... but, now, your application says you took a shot at the next level and couldn't hack it.
 
Osminog said:
She was working full time during the SMP, do her SMP GPA probably isn't a good indicator of her abilities.
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I'm never, ever impressed with the logic of "If I didn't have X distractions, I'd have really good grades". Burden of proof is on the presenter to PROVE they can handle med school curricula. We already have red flags of poor judgment, which are not good for med student success.
 
Goro said:
I'm never, ever impressed with the logic of "If I didn't have X distractions, I'd have really good grades". Burden of proof is on the presenter to PROVE they can handle med school curricula. We already have red flags of poor judgment, which are not good for med student success.
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I think full-time work is more than just a "distraction." Anyway, her undergrad GPA was good enough for DO, so I'm not sure how that doesn't serve as "proof."

I concede the "poor judgment" point, but I'm guessing she came from a socioeconomically disadvantaged background and received bad information somewhere down the line.

You fairly frequently offer people the "I can't sugarcoat this; you'll never get into med school" spiel... but some of these people are ultimately able to reinvent themselves and get accepted. If I had the time, I could create a list of threads in which you told people they had no hope and they ended up being fine. Never underestimate the power of human drive and resilience.
 
Osminog said:
I think full-time work is more than just a "distraction." Anyway, her undergrad GPA was good enough for DO, so I'm not sure how that doesn't serve as "proof."

I concede the "poor judgment" point, but I'm guessing she came from a socioeconomically disadvantaged background and received bad information somewhere down the line.

You fairly frequently offer people the "I can't sugarcoat this; you'll never get into med school" spiel... but some of these people are ultimately able to reinvent themselves and get accepted. If I had the time, I could create a list of threads in which you told people they had no hope and they ended up being fine. Never underestimate the power of human drive and resilience.
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Oh, I've seen that happen too...I've interviewed people who bombed a first post-bac or SMP, but they are rare.
 
Osminog said:
I think full-time work is more than just a "distraction." Anyway, her undergrad GPA was good enough for DO, so I'm not sure how that doesn't serve as "proof."

I concede the "poor judgment" point, but I'm guessing she came from a socioeconomically disadvantaged background and received bad information somewhere down the line.

You fairly frequently offer people the "I can't sugarcoat this; you'll never get into med school" spiel... but some of these people are ultimately able to reinvent themselves and get accepted. If I had the time, I could create a list of threads in which you told people they had no hope and they ended up being fine. Never underestimate the power of human drive and resilience.
Click to expand...
You would be guessing correctly, I also have received the financial aid from AMCAS. Life has been very difficult for me and it just brings tears to my eyes to look how far I have come. The fact that I was even able to get into and graduate from a university as an undocumented student seems like a movie to me. The struggle has been real. Everyone has their own struggles and I believe mine have made me stronger. From using fake names to get jobs to be able to eat something that week, to borrowing books from professors because I had no money for even that, sleeping on couches in common areas because of getting kicked out for choosing between food/school or a place to be. I'm not trying to sound like a sob story but I am just genuinely trying to show that I haven't just had "distractions". These are things that have made me stronger in the long run and very motivated. I understand it has maybe if not definitely ruined my chances at becoming a physician. There's a lot of people saying no way, but there's a glimmer of hope that possible I can keep pursuing this. Only time will tell
 
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MCAT is your last shot. If you can score really well on the MCAT (508+) then I think some schools will at least interview you and give you a chance to explain your poor SMP performance. Also make sure to talk about this in your personal statement. I disagree with others that are saying it's over for you. A good MCAT can tip the balance for you. I also disagree that your poor SMP performance means you are doomed to fail out of medical school. Passing an SMP while working full time is not easy. NOT A GOOD DECISION, but definitely not easy and if given the chance you probably would have done way better without the pressure of having to work to support your family.
 
Goro said:
Oh, I've seen that happen too...I've interviewed people who bombed a first post-bac or SMP, but they are rare.
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Would a post bacc be a good next step? or just focusing on the MCAT? my application is very good other than that, I had the head of admissions from my undergrad university contact me. He advised me to retake the MCAT, this is for an MD school and his goal is to increase the Hispanic MDs in the area. Idk how hopeful I can be, this was before I received my masters and he did know I had gotten two Cs (81 and 80). In the end I got the two Cs but everything else high As and Bs. Our cutoff was anything 81 or less was considered C.
 
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