It's not all about GPA

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akaykay

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After reading some posts, I realize that most of you guys stress too much about GPA.

"What are my chances of getting in with a 3.9 gpa and 98% on pcat."

I'm sorry, but these type of people are annoying and it shows that you're not confident. My point is:
It's not all about GPA's! if you have a high gpa, great! everyone knows a good gpa can get you in, but it's not guaranteed. I should know. I was once on an admission panel. So for all of you applying to pharmacy schools next year, try to seek balance in your education. Make academics your first priority, but don't forget that volunteer work/community services, extracurricular activites, pharmacy experience (especially this), and a broad education are integral to your application. Getting to know your professors (good prep for recommendations) is also a must. If possible, try to learn another language if you're not bilingual. Part of being a pharmacist is the ability to be versatile. Showing that you have a high gpa doesn't prove that you're a well-rounded pharmacist. I knew a girl accepted to UCSF with a 3.4 gpa, but she also worked, did research, and participated in extracurricular activities. And a great personal statement can definitely impress the committee.
 
I am sick of the whole GPA debate. Half of the people in my class do not have a degree yet brag about high GPAs. In my opinion the adcoms cannot compare a GPA from a student that earned a degree to someone who just took the prereqs.
 
thanks for the post! it gives me hope since my GPA is on the lower end of the spectrum..
 
Although I agree with the wisdom of the original poster - I disagree with any argument concerning GPA. More will always be better. That is a very basic truth. An excellent, well rounded applicant with a decent GPA will normally be second to an excellent, well rounded applicant with a perfect GPA. The wisdom he puts forth is that to be successful, you should be a complete applicant. I agree 100% to that point! If your school does not take the PCAT - then GPA is your #1 priority - sure, you need all of the other stuff, but being well rounded with a 3.0 is still not going to compete with well rounded and 3.9.

That is just how it looks to me right now - for the record, I have a 3.66 prereq GPA - an average (and what I personally feel is low) GPA - Im hoping that serving in the military, along with lots of volunteer and work experience in different pharmacies will payoff. Any other realists out there???

~above~
 
gpa is important but pharmacy schools (at least this is what they claim) are looking for well-rounded, versatile and UNIQUE candidates that will diversify the population of pharmacists in the long run. gone are the days of cookie-cutter pharmacists. the more that you can bring to the table OUTSIDE of gpa will strengthen your chances. and it is more than just volunteering in a pharmacy b/c that really doesn't make you a unique candidate these days.
 
yea i sort of disagree with the first post becuase i applied last year to a school and they rejected me and i asked them what it was and they told me it was because my gpa wasn't considered competetive for them. they didn't even LOOK at my other stuff and i think my extracurriculars and such aren't too bad.

so.. i don't know. i guess it depends on the school
 
143namil said:
yea i sort of disagree with the first post becuase i applied last year to a school and they rejected me and i asked them what it was and they told me it was because my gpa wasn't considered competetive for them. they didn't even LOOK at my other stuff and i think my extracurriculars and such aren't too bad.

so.. i don't know. i guess it depends on the school
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What's your GPA?
 
I know someone who had a 4.0 and 99 on PCAT. He got an interview but did not get in. He had no pharmacy experience. I am thinking he said something wrong in the interview. I was suprised because he was much more intelligent than me and didn't seem weird or nerdy or unable to conduct an interview. So they obviously look at more than GPA and PCAT. I think that is just to get an interview and the interview can make or break you even if you are a perfect student.
 
museabuse said:
I know someone who had a 4.0 and 99 on PCAT. He got an interview but did not get in. He had no pharmacy experience. I am thinking he said something wrong in the interview. I was suprised because he was much more intelligent than me and didn't seem weird or nerdy or unable to conduct an interview. So they obviously look at more than GPA and PCAT. I think that is just to get an interview and the interview can make or break you even if you are a perfect student.
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Very true - you can have all the brains in the world and still act like an idiot and screw up. GPA and PCAT will get your foot in the door - what you do from that point determines whether or not you get in - at least that's what appears to be the case most of the time.

One person from VCC in Orlando had an awesome PCAT (97) with a 3.5 GPA and didn't even get an interview - came to find out later he had drug felonies... so there are other issues to be sorted out as well

~above~
 
Yeah....

Drug felonies + Pharmacist = Problem
 
I think one of the most important things about even getting a chance on getting and interview and getting in is turning your application in as early as possible. Even if your GPA is lower, if you turn it in early then they see you first and have more chance to look at your application. The first time I applied I turned applications in towards the end of the application period and didn't get any interviews. The second time I turned them in the first month and got interviews at almost every school I applied to. I didn't change much about my application between the 2 years either.
 
orange_ivy said:
I think one of the most important things about even getting a chance on getting and interview and getting in is turning your application in as early as possible. Even if your GPA is lower, if you turn it in early then they see you first and have more chance to look at your application. The first time I applied I turned applications in towards the end of the application period and didn't get any interviews. The second time I turned them in the first month and got interviews at almost every school I applied to. I didn't change much about my application between the 2 years either.
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great advice🙂
 
It's all about applying early. So many of us have comparable test scores, GPAs, work experience, volunteer experience and so on... When it truly comes down to it, it's when you apply! They look at you and say "yah we got room" as opposed to "yah she/he looks good, we just don't have the room!" Good heads ups
 
what's considered early enough? i think personal statement is the ONLY thing holding me back right now. i jsut can't seem to write a good one
 
yeah, what's considered early? i'm not really sure of the period in which an application is completed and turned in, is it only once a year? i looked in the FAQ but couldn't really find any info. is it different for different schools?
 
143namil said:
what's considered early enough? i think personal statement is the ONLY thing holding me back right now. i jsut can't seem to write a good one
Click to expand...

i hear ya! my stats are very average and i have some hospital/pharmacy experience but i feel that it's not enough! for the apps, ive had everything done for like 1 month and a half except that darned personal statement (supplementals too!) :scared:
 
ombastic said:
yeah, what's considered early? i'm not really sure of the period in which an application is completed and turned in, is it only once a year? i looked in the FAQ but couldn't really find any info. is it different for different schools?
Click to expand...

I'm not super clear on what you're asking, but if you're talking about the admissions cycle, then yeah, the vast majority if not all schools admit students only for the entering fall session. However, the timeline in which you can work on the apps/deadlines vary from school to school.

For Pharmcas schools, they go up around June 1 each year and you can continue to work on them and submit whenever you like, as long as it's by the deadline designated on the Pharmcas site by your desired schools. However, keep in mind that there's a number of schools who are on rolling admissions, meaning that the earlier you submit your app, the higher your chances are of getting an interview/admission. (I think someone mentioned this above already???) For schools that are not on rolling admissions, then you can turn it in by the deadline and you'll be reviewed from the same pool as everyone else who applied for that admissions cycle. I hope this answered your question.........
 
ilovepharm said:
I'm not super clear on what you're asking, but if you're talking about the admissions cycle, then yeah, the vast majority if not all schools admit students only for the entering fall session. However, the timeline in which you can work on the apps/deadlines vary from school to school.

For Pharmcas schools, they go up around June 1 each year and you can continue to work on them and submit whenever you like, as long as it's by the deadline designated on the Pharmcas site by your desired schools. However, keep in mind that there's a number of schools who are on rolling admissions, meaning that the earlier you submit your app, the higher your chances are of getting an interview/admission. (I think someone mentioned this above already???) For schools that are not on rolling admissions, then you can turn it in by the deadline and you'll be reviewed from the same pool as everyone else who applied for that admissions cycle. I hope this answered your question.........
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so they go up at around june 1st and you're applying for fall of the same year? sorry if i wasn't clear. thanks for helping.
 
ombastic said:
so they go up at around june 1st and you're applying for fall of the same year? sorry if i wasn't clear. thanks for helping.
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Applications for the Fall of 2007 were up June 1st. They go up one year ahead
 
Now, I realise that this is a single experience with a single school, but when I applied to USN in 2004, I didn't even get to the interview stage due solely to GPA (~3.0 science, 3.6ish overall). This is with a BA, all pre-reqs (minus speech) completed, and an early application.

When I reapply, I will a) apply to multiple schools (that was sort of a "stab in the dark"), b) apply to at least some schools that use the PCAT (I am a good test-taker), and c) re-take the two classes that brought down my GPA (calc I and II).

At the time, I was quite disappointed that I didn't even get a chance to express myself in the interview and be judged in person. Now, however, I know not to just take a "stab' at it, but rather will come at it with higher GPA, volunteer/tech experience, PCAT, etc.

-RD
 
USN doesn' t even require PCAT, volunteer, LOR, or ec activites. they only look at GPA. Most people I know who got in have 3.8-4.0 gpa.
 
Early = 2-3 monts before application is due.

In my experience, I submitted my application one week before it was due. At the time I had a 3.85 GPA, 43 on the PCAT, no pharmacy experience outside of shadowing, I volunteered and worked in a retirement center for nearlry five years. I received an interview and was waitlisted at MWU - Glendale.

Presently, my stats have changed a little. GPA = 3.893, 57 PCAT, I work in a pharmacy that has a lot of MWU students/former students working there. I have two awesome letters of recommendation and am submitting my application next week (9/22/06). That is three months before I submitted it last time. I think it just improves your chances. Like I said, it's all about havint the available seats. You could be the best canidate but if they don't have the room, you ain't going!
 
shaun009 said:
Early = 2-3 monts before application is due.

In my experience, I submitted my application one week before it was due. At the time I had a 3.85 GPA, 43 on the PCAT, no pharmacy experience outside of shadowing, I volunteered and worked in a retirement center for nearlry five years. I received an interview and was waitlisted at MWU - Glendale.

Presently, my stats have changed a little. GPA = 3.893, 57 PCAT, I work in a pharmacy that has a lot of MWU students/former students working there. I have two awesome letters of recommendation and am submitting my application next week (9/22/06). That is three months before I submitted it last time. I think it just improves your chances. Like I said, it's all about havint the available seats. You could be the best canidate but if they don't have the room, you ain't going!
Click to expand...

your PCAT is very low. i think having that high of a GPA but that low of PCAT will raise eyebrows. i suggest u retake it to be really sure. your GPA is high enough that it won't matter when u turn it in really. if ur PCAT was higher, you'd be a SHOO-IN.
 
whats with all the 99 PCAT scores and low GPA and vice versa. it doesn't make sense that those people did so well their entire 4 years in college yet only get 50-60 on PCAT scores. it makes me think back at the cheaters in my class, but im not pointing any fingers here of course.
 
PharmMnM said:
whats with all the 99 PCAT scores and low GPA and vice versa. it doesn't make sense that those people did so well their entire 4 years in college yet only get 50-60 on PCAT scores. it makes me think back at the cheaters in my class, but im not pointing any fingers here of course.
Click to expand...

i think its easier to explain low GPA w/ high PCAT b/c u can say u work full time or some ppl just don't try hard (like high school gpa w/ SAT). but to have a high GPA but VERY LOW pcat is not good. sure, ppl can say they're not good standardized test takers, but we all took multiple choice tests in our career.
 
I dont know - I am pretty much an A student - my GPA for the past 60 hours is a 3.91 - but I still only scored a 79 on the PCAT. I would like to use the excuse I was working too much or blah blah blah - whatever... I'm just saying I can see how someone can have an excellent GPA - but still have a dismal PCAT.

~above~
 
The answer to high GPA and low PCAT is quite simple: the schools are far too easy and are probably buffered by community college courses. Take for example another person who posted on here a few months back from Johns Hopkins - obviously his GPA is lower but the prestige and difficulty of the institution reflects that (as does the PCAT). These institutions - more often than not - foster critical thinking and stretch possibilities to new boundaries due to a higher student body quality, which is something that is not necessarily emphasized at lower institutions.
 
why is everyone giving community colleges such a bad reputation! I've taken courses at both and sometimes community college courses are a lot tougher than 4 year universities. I asked my counselor about why some schools (in this case Worcestor) required that the minimun GPA from a 4 year be 3.5 while for cc is 3.8. She told me that she doesn't understand why someone would tell me that because the cc courses are designed to meet the standards and curriculum of a 4 year.
 
If they did raise eyebrows.. they could simply look at my PCAT scores and then compare my scores to my transcripts. I had one year of biology (no Anatomy, no Micro, no second-year biology) when I received a 31 on the biology section of the PCAT. The other score that hurt me was a 33 on the verbal ability. I am very well spoken and can communicate well with anyone. My verbal skills are higher than what the score reflects and it's a shame that I'm being judged based on those scores. Thanks for the heads up though, I will be taking the PCAT again in October... in hopes to score in the 70's.
 
PharmMnM said:
why is everyone giving community colleges such a bad reputation! I've taken courses at both and sometimes community college courses are a lot tougher than 4 year universities. I asked my counselor about why some schools (in this case Worcestor) required that the minimun GPA from a 4 year be 3.5 while for cc is 3.8. She told me that she doesn't understand why someone would tell me that because the cc courses are designed to meet the standards and curriculum of a 4 year.
Click to expand...

While what I may say might be interpreted as having an inferiority complex, I would like to state the not so popular opinion as to why community colleges are often not seen at the same difficulty as more prestigious schools. It is unfortunate that the educational system is highly not uniform in terms of quality across the US, but it is understood that courses at schools like Johns Hopkins can't be considered anywhere close to what you would find at even the best of community colleges out there.

I've taken a few of my prereqs at a community college and quite frankly they're significantly different in terms of both grading curve and difficulty of the course. The difficulty of the class is reflected by the quality of students that generally go to community colleges. While it is true that there are very smart individuals who don't have the money to necessarily pay for an elite education, the mass majority of students at CCs aren't as capable as their 4 year counterparts. Professors understand this and can only push their students to a limit without failing a mass majority of their classes. While one can surmise that their job is to teach and may actually "teach" better than a 4 year class, the point is that the rigor may not match up. You can standardize a class with a median being a B-, but that doesn't mean much when the class isn't as capable to begin with. A's and hardwork are judged in comparison to the environment from which it is produced. An unfair, but unfortunate reality.

This is why you find students coming out of Stanford and UC Berkeley well prepared with lesser GPAs but are still fully capable. They might not have *learned* anything from the pressure cookers in which they've come out of, but they certainly have demonstrated their ability to work hard and balance rigorous coursework. That is one measure in which pharmacy school admissions pay attention to because of the rigors of the curriculums are enormous. They understand that not everyone has the opportunity to attend the schools, but if you were an admissions officer, wouldn't you select for the students with the best capability to succeed? Weighing these factors are crucial (as is overcoming adversity) for the best class to be the future pharmacists of america.
 
like it or not, pharm schools (or any grad or professional schools) don't think as highly of CC as that of a 4 yr and some schools don't think highly of some 4-yr schools as other 4yr schools. reputations are known.

that's why the PCAT, MCAT, DAT are all used as a way to compare students who take different classes at different universities.

i have talked to a prof who teaches both at mira mesa college (CC), san diego state, and UCSD. the level of students are different w/ UCSD the best and mira mesa the lowest. its not a knock on CCs (b/c liek te poster above said, there are smart students, its just the overall level isn't).

from my personal expeirence, getting an A at a CC is ridiculously easy, like in HS. my friend gets Cs in writing courses at UCSD and gets As at a CC.

i know a guy who got a 4.0 at a CC and transfers to UCSD and can never break a 3.3.

you may be very smart even if u take all ur courses at a CC, but if ur PCAT doens't reflect it, something's wrong. the PCAT is not much about critical thinking like say the MCAT. the PCAT is like a normal MC test at a normal university w/ just more info. so doing bad on that will reflect bad on yourself as a student.
 
Gosh, people on here can be so critical. Yes, a low PCAT score coupled with a high GPA, just like taking CC courses as opposed to University courses may be problematic at some schools, but not all.

Case in point: Myself. I have a little bit of everything as part of my application. I graduated years ago with a BA. This past year I have completed my science pre-reqs at a CC. Some classes at CC were a walk in the park, but some were not. My PCAT score is a 61 composite (wow, nothing special, but a 69 in bio and a 78 in chem), but my cumulative GPA from college ten years ago to present (160+ hours) stands at 3.7, and science cumulative a 3.75.

In my academic career, I have taken the ACT, SAT, GRE, GMAT, and PCAT. Did I ever do well? How do you define well? I have always scored in the UPPER 50 percentile, but not much more than that.

The crux of my story is that not all schools value numbers only. I will gladly tell you that I am not applying to those competitive schools where I know I will not have a realistic shot. There are many schools that are less competitive, and those are the ones I am concentrating my efforts on. I don't think that my journey will be easy, but I have to stay positive in knowing that I am choosing the schools that will not be as critical about my lower PCAT score.
 
TennisBoy78 said:
Gosh, people on here can be so critical. Yes, a low PCAT score coupled with a high GPA, just like taking CC courses as opposed to University courses may be problematic at some schools, but not all.

Case in point: Myself. I have a little bit of everything as part of my application. I graduated years ago with a BA. This past year I have completed my science pre-reqs at a CC. Some classes at CC were a walk in the park, but some were not. My PCAT score is a 61 composite (wow, nothing special, but a 69 in bio and a 78 in chem), but my cumulative GPA from college ten years ago to present (160+ hours) stands at 3.7, and science cumulative a 3.75.

In my academic career, I have taken the ACT, SAT, GRE, GMAT, and PCAT. Did I ever do well? How do you define well? I have always scored in the UPPER 50 percentile, but not much more than that.

The crux of my story is that not all schools value numbers only. I will gladly tell you that I am not applying to those competitive schools where I know I will not have a realistic shot. There are many schools that are less competitive, and those are the ones I am concentrating my efforts on. I don't think that my journey will be easy, but I have to stay positive in knowing that I am choosing the schools that will not be as critical about my lower PCAT score.
Click to expand...

sure that works. im not sayin we're critical but that's how most schools look at these type of things. you can talk to the adcoms or counselors.

yes, if u have low PCAT scores, applying to lower-tier schools is fine.
 
doublehh03 said:
sure that works. im not sayin we're critical but that's how most schools look at these type of things. you can talk to the adcoms or counselors.

yes, if u have low PCAT scores, applying to lower-tier schools is fine.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't mind me asking but, which lower-tier schools will you be applying to?
 
TennisBoy78 said:
Gosh, people on here can be so critical. Yes, a low PCAT score coupled with a high GPA, just like taking CC courses as opposed to University courses may be problematic at some schools, but not all.

Case in point: Myself. I have a little bit of everything as part of my application. I graduated years ago with a BA. This past year I have completed my science pre-reqs at a CC. Some classes at CC were a walk in the park, but some were not. My PCAT score is a 61 composite (wow, nothing special, but a 69 in bio and a 78 in chem), but my cumulative GPA from college ten years ago to present (160+ hours) stands at 3.7, and science cumulative a 3.75.

In my academic career, I have taken the ACT, SAT, GRE, GMAT, and PCAT. Did I ever do well? How do you define well? I have always scored in the UPPER 50 percentile, but not much more than that.

The crux of my story is that not all schools value numbers only. I will gladly tell you that I am not applying to those competitive schools where I know I will not have a realistic shot. There are many schools that are less competitive, and those are the ones I am concentrating my efforts on. I don't think that my journey will be easy, but I have to stay positive in knowing that I am choosing the schools that will not be as critical about my lower PCAT score.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't mind me asking but, which lower-tier schools are you applying to?
 
I was also wondering which schools are considered "lower tier"...the more competitive ones are obvious.
 
I suppose it varies in the question of competitive for who. The easiest ones would obviously be the ones that are teetering on accreditation status.
 
sprinkle0420 said:
I was also wondering which schools are considered "lower tier"...the more competitive ones are obvious.
Click to expand...

I never said "lower tier" in my statement. Yes, Im applying to the less competitive. As far as Im concerned, as long as a school is accredited, it is in the same tier as all others, as I seriously doubt that I will be going into research with a PharmD.
 
doublehh03 said:
like it or not, pharm schools (or any grad or professional schools) don't think as highly of CC as that of a 4 yr and some schools don't think highly of some 4-yr schools as other 4yr schools. reputations are known.

that's why the PCAT, MCAT, DAT are all used as a way to compare students who take different classes at different universities.

i have talked to a prof who teaches both at mira mesa college (CC), san diego state, and UCSD. the level of students are different w/ UCSD the best and mira mesa the lowest. its not a knock on CCs (b/c liek te poster above said, there are smart students, its just the overall level isn't).

from my personal expeirence, getting an A at a CC is ridiculously easy, like in HS. my friend gets Cs in writing courses at UCSD and gets As at a CC.

i know a guy who got a 4.0 at a CC and transfers to UCSD and can never break a 3.3.

you may be very smart even if u take all ur courses at a CC, but if ur PCAT doens't reflect it, something's wrong. the PCAT is not much about critical thinking like say the MCAT. the PCAT is like a normal MC test at a normal university w/ just more info. so doing bad on that will reflect bad on yourself as a student.
Click to expand...


i agree all students are at different levels, but i don't think it has anything really to do with the schools themselves. sure, classes at the CC can be easier, but the whole point of your education is whether you really learned the fundamentals, right? plus, you can always find really good students, taking classes at a CC because they can't afford the high tuition at more prestigious public four year institutions. i've seen really bright students at CC's. but really, does it matter what school you really came from??

you're only as good as what you can actually learn and remember, and in the real world, you are rated based on your work performance-not because you're from such and such. it's funny how people think. is it the school that makes the students, or the students themselves who give the school a good name to begin with? a little a bit of both, but sometimes it's hard to tease out.

as for the pcat, you may be under test anxiety, but really, just do your best.
some may not do well under timed exams, but they may shine in other essential areas.

this is just what i think!
 
Hi, I'm a newbie.
Now, I've heard talk about a high gpa and a low pcat, but what about a low gpa ....say 2.5 with a high pcat? I have not taken the PCAT yet, but is it possible to get accepted to UW with a beefed up transcript i.e. voluntary work, community service, ect.. Has anyone accomplished this? or does anyone know of anyone who has? or am I dreaming if so please shock me with 50 voltz or enough to wipe out my memory.


Also I had a question about transcripts. If I don't want my transcript to follow me anymore simply because I absolutley hate it, can I just go to another CC and start off fresh? Is there a way for CC #2 to figure out that I went to CC #1? If I don't get accepted to a pharmacy I am interested in starting over from the begging at another CC college. Is this viable?
Thanks for your time.
 
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