It's Over

[Narcotized]

No more Obama reign of terror, the worse science project in the history of American politics.

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[CrazyJake]

Next time you flush your toilet, it will be equivalent to obama's agenda...down the tube

 

[doctor712]

A little disappointed at the lack of replies... I second Narc's feelings! Well, third actually...

 

[pgg]

A little disappointed at the lack of replies... I second Narc's feelings! Well, third actually...

Seems celebration is a little premature ...

He'll have huge trouble getting any more of his agenda through Congress, but
- the wheels will keep turning on reform tha's already passed
- he's got two more years of judges to appoint
- R control of the House substantially improves his re-election prospects

Gridlock is an improvement over the status quo, but he's not done.

 

[sevoflurane]

Premature... true. Heading in the RIGHT direction. Absolutely.

 

[Jet915]

Yesterday night was great for repubs and not getting the Senate may be a blessing in disguise. With the House firmly in Repub control, Obama cannot pass anymore of his socialist agenda, but with the Senate barely in Democrat control, he can't blame Congress for stopping his agenda cause Dems still control the Senate. Goal is getting rid of this guy so the key from yesterday might be all the Governor seats Republican's took last night.

 

[doctor712]

Seems celebration is a little premature ...
- the wheels will keep turning on reform tha's already passed

I'm not so sure. On the first day of his elect status, Boehner is going after the healthcare reform, 1000%. Seems important to the new house leader and
something that he's going to make an issue of... And rightfully so.

It took time to pass this bill, it will take some time to fight back... Wheels are headed in a much better direction, I think.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39987154/ns/politics-decision_2010/

 

[Jeff Smoker]

I don't understand why doctors are so cised about the elections. If you believe the dems are evil and the GOP loves "the people", I've got news for you. Neither the Dems nor the GOP care about us, or Joe Citizen at all. The only things they care about are making more money for themselves or their lawyer or big business cronies. As much as we may "pay their salaries" or "they work for us" the fact is they don't. That mentality was lost long ago.

The people I feel saddest for are the Tea Partiers. If you think the Hoi Polloi of the GOP are going to invite you to the table, you are so wrong. The upper crust does not want you rednecks in their country club. They just use you as a cover to say "Hey, we're grassroots. We care."

The senior members of the GOP said it themselves. They aren't going to work to make our lives better, they want to "make sure Obama is a one term president."

 

[cfdavid]

I don't understand why doctors are so cised about the elections. If you believe the dems are evil and the GOP loves "the people", I've got news for you. Neither the Dems nor the GOP care about us, or Joe Citizen at all. The only things they care about are making more money for themselves or their lawyer or big business cronies. As much as we may "pay their salaries" or "they work for us" the fact is they don't. That mentality was lost long ago.

The people I feel saddest for are the Tea Partiers. If you think the Hoi Polloi of the GOP are going to invite you to the table, you are so wrong. The upper crust does not want you rednecks in their country club. They just use you as a cover to say "Hey, we're grassroots. We care."

The senior members of the GOP said it themselves. They aren't going to work to make our lives better, they want to "make sure Obama is a one term president."

The "Tea Party" movement DID begin as a grassroots, loosely controlled (by definition) movement which was comprised by folks sick of the points you made above the bold....

While a threat to the Republican establishment (because they ran as Republicans versus following the same old path of trying to win as third party candidates), the establishment also tried to "commandeer" them. This was successful in some ways and not in others.

To change the way things are done, as Peter Schiff stated, it'll be most pragmatic to RE-infiltrate the Republican party with more constitutionally and FISCALLY conservative people, just as the NEO-cons had very strong roots in the Democratic party, but infiltrated the Republican party with much success in driving their agenda. So, it'll be slow going to take the party back, as it always is, and especially since real establishment support is not there in many ways.

Again, I agree with your first few statements. Traditional establishment party folks do not care about Joe America.

cf

 

[KongMD73]

The interesting part is that the country was already at a low point prior to Obama taking office, so why people feel that he is such an awful president is beyond me. It's not like he got into office, and the country all at once went into recession. I don't get much into politics, but I do understand the basic concept of government, and the "checks and balances" system. The current president is not solely writing bills and implementing changes in our country. There are other people who make up the governing body, and I'd like to believe that whether democrat or republican, they are not blindly following one person's ideas without thinking on their own.
I don't feel that Obama trying to get universal healthcare makes him a socialist. The very people that he is trying to help are many of the same people that you all posting to this forum are trying to help everyday: the indigent and uninsured. Otherwise, our healthcare system will continue to get worse from the insurance/ financial standpoint until it caves in on itself. Think about that the next time you order that MRI on the patient who can't afford it or you have an uninsured pregnant patient who comes to the ED for maternity checks. Who will pay for those services?

 

[pencan]

Because since 2006 when the Dems took control of both houses of Congress we have indebted our children and the next succeeding 5 generation with 5 trillion in debt with nothing to show for it except a few more buidings in West Virginia named after a dead former klan member. Obama was part of the ruling class in the Senate. How is someone who is pregnant uninsured????? I don't know of any state that does not offer free loader health insurance for anyone who is pregnant. Obama is a socialist and a morally corrupt inept community organizer (race hustler/ corporate shakedown artist). He tries to implement a health care system but isn't even qualified to empty bed pans in a hospital. His wife diverted patients seeking emergency services at her hospital (no show job at that) to other hospitals within Chicago. Who said the stimulus would keep unemplyment in check at 8% or less.

The interesting part is that the country was already at a low point prior to Obama taking office, so why people feel that he is such an awful president is beyond me. It's not like he got into office, and the country all at once went into recession. I don't get much into politics, but I do understand the basic concept of government, and the "checks and balances" system. The current president is not solely writing bills and implementing changes in our country. There are other people who make up the governing body, and I'd like to believe that whether democrat or republican, they are not blindly following one person's ideas without thinking on their own.
I don't feel that Obama trying to get universal healthcare makes him a socialist. The very people that he is trying to help are many of the same people that you all posting to this forum are trying to help everyday: the indigent and uninsured. Otherwise, our healthcare system will continue to get worse from the insurance/ financial standpoint until it caves in on itself. Think about that the next time you order that MRI on the patient who can't afford it or you have an uninsured pregnant patient who comes to the ED for maternity checks. Who will pay for those services?

 

[KongMD73]

Because since 2006 when the Dems took control of both houses of Congress we have indebted our children and the next succeeding 5 generation with 5 trillion in debt with nothing to show for it except a few more buidings in West Virginia named after a dead former klan member. Obama was part of the ruling class in the Senate. How is someone who is pregnant uninsured????? I don't know of any state that does not offer free loader health insurance for anyone who is pregnant. Obama is a socialist and a morally corrupt inept community organizer (race hustler/ corporate shakedown artist). He tries to implement a health care system but isn't even qualified to empty bed pans in a hospital. His wife diverted patients seeking emergency services at her hospital (no show job at that) to other hospitals within Chicago. Who said the stimulus would keep unemplyment in check at 8% or less.

You are correct, pregnant women do have insurance. What about the other millions of people?

 

[patel2]

I don't understand why doctors are so cised about the elections. If you believe the dems are evil and the GOP loves "the people", I've got news for you. Neither the Dems nor the GOP care about us, or Joe Citizen at all. The only things they care about are making more money for themselves or their lawyer or big business cronies. As much as we may "pay their salaries" or "they work for us" the fact is they don't. That mentality was lost long ago.

The people I feel saddest for are the Tea Partiers. If you think the Hoi Polloi of the GOP are going to invite you to the table, you are so wrong. The upper crust does not want you rednecks in their country club. They just use you as a cover to say "Hey, we're grassroots. We care."

The senior members of the GOP said it themselves. They aren't going to work to make our lives better, they want to "make sure Obama is a one term president."

If you think the tea-partier elects are going to fall in line with the establishment, you are so wrong. Senator-elect Rand Paul is a perfect example of someone who is going to buck the establishment on MANY occasions to cut spending, audit the federal reserve, promote defense cuts and challenge the disastrous neo-con foreign policy. He will be as much a pain for the McConnell's of the party as he is for the democrats. Ultimately, this will be an incredibly good thing for our country, as the new conservatives will hold the Republican Party accountable to its platform and roots.

Jim DeMint (who I do not consider establishment) has acknowledged on many occasions how Republicans have failed us over the 8 years of Bush in almost every area. He is talking of creating a tea party/conservative caucus with the fiscal conservatives that will meet additionally to the traditional Republican caucus.

 

[Narcotized]

I don't understand why doctors are so cised about the elections. If you believe the dems are evil and the GOP loves "the people", I've got news for you. Neither the Dems nor the GOP care about us, or Joe Citizen at all. The only things they care about are making more money for themselves or their lawyer or big business cronies. As much as we may "pay their salaries" or "they work for us" the fact is they don't. That mentality was lost long ago.

The people I feel saddest for are the Tea Partiers. If you think the Hoi Polloi of the GOP are going to invite you to the table, you are so wrong. The upper crust does not want you rednecks in their country club. They just use you as a cover to say "Hey, we're grassroots. We care."

You missed everything about yesterday. The rednecks (as you cluelessly label people that hate both parties and fiscal irresponsibility) don't want to be in their country club. We'd rather lose Del and Nevada than put up another GOP good ol boy. The real issue is whether we "rednecks" will allow the country club wimps on our tractors and double wides.

I could give a crap about their country club. Bush and Obama did nothing but destroy the country. The question is whether the rednecks will even give a damn to invite some of the GOP dinosaurs to the table, not the other way around.

 

[pencan]

1. get a job or more if needed to provide health care for you and your family!!!!
2. graduate high school then college etc...
3. don't get knocked up when your 15 and have four more by 20
4. Spend your money on priorities instead of beer, cigaretttes, lottery tickets, meth and tattoos.
5. Don't vote democrat
6. Initiate a flat tax at no more than 10-15%
7. tax liberals and liberalism to pay for social spending
8. eliminate welfare

You are correct, pregnant women do have insurance. What about the other millions of people?

 

[pgg]

The interesting part is that the country was already at a low point prior to Obama taking office, so why people feel that he is such an awful president is beyond me.

It's because his solution to debt is to spend more money.

Unemployment and lack of health care won't destroy America as we know it. Debt might.

It really is that simple.



Before you respond, I'll add that I believe the 2nd worst president in my lifetime was GWB. This is not a Republican vs Democrat issue. This is a "borrow and spend a ton" vs "borrow and spend even more" issue.

 

[pencan]

your kidding right???? Next your going to claim you can't tax and spend yourself into prosperity!!

It's because his solution to debt is to spend more money.

Unemployment and lack of health care won't destroy America as we know it. Debt might.

It really is that simple.



Before you respond, I'll add that I believe the 2nd worst president in my lifetime was GWB. This is not a Republican vs Democrat issue. This is a "borrow and spend a ton" vs "borrow and spend even more" issue.

 

[doctor712]

I don't understand why doctors are so cised about the elections. If you believe the dems are evil and the GOP loves "the people", I've got news for you. Neither the Dems nor the GOP care about us, or Joe Citizen at all. The only things they care about are making more money for themselves or their lawyer or big business cronies. As much as we may "pay their salaries" or "they work for us" the fact is they don't. That mentality was lost long ago. The senior members of the GOP said it themselves. They aren't going to work to make our lives better, they want to "make sure Obama is a one term president."

I don't disagree with some of what you have here, but it's faulty logic at best. The way you describe politicians is pretty correct, yet, you're describing their tactics and personalities and goals and, at large, surely, they know how to cook pork better than many other professions. But that speaks to their METHODS. They are, still, in fact, law makers. And those who are happy are simply replying to the change in direction that has been signaled yesterday. Even Obama went on TV today to note change has been made. Idiocracy aside, 60 republicans in a senate versus 20 Republicans in a senate have a different affect on the policy making in this country. And vice versa. Especially with a republican president in the white house and republican house. anyway, what you're saying is they suck and will never change. true. but they still make law and we have to deal with them as best we can.

1. get a job or more if needed to provide health care for you and your family!!!!
2. graduate high school then college etc...
3. don't get knocked up when your 15 and have four more by 20
4. Spend your money on priorities instead of beer, cigaretttes, lottery tickets and tattoos.
5. Don't vote democrat
6. Initiate a flat tax at no more than 10-15%
7. tax liberals and liberalism to pay for social spending
8. eliminate welfare

1. i had a job this year. 6 figures. didn't pay for my health insurance as I was an independent "contractor". i.e. writer. my tab was 1500 a month for family of 4. not even close to a solution.
2. Oy
3. Sure. Idealist much?
4. don't do any of that stuff... yet I don't see housing prices rising much in the last 5 years, how bout you?
5. Oy. And I don't even vote dem.
6. Yes, Mr. Buffet.
7. Oy.
8. Oy.

D712

 

[pencan]

that's your CHOICE to take a 1099 position. Most of those positions pay quite a bit above a W2 job, which you could have taken if you really had to. Low housing prices are good for those low income people (who have 20% down) to get into a home. What do housing prices have to do with healthcare???? If your house is your biggest asset/ investment you are a screwed fool.

1. i had a job this year. 6 figures. didn't pay for my health insurance as I was an independent "contractor". i.e. writer. my tab was 1500 a month for family of 4. not even close to a solution.
2. Oy
3. Sure. Idealist much?
4. don't do any of that stuff... yet I don't see housing prices rising much in the last 5 years, how bout you?
5. Oy. And I don't even vote dem.
6. Yes, Mr. Buffet.
7. Oy.
8. Oy.

D712

 

[CVRN]

1. get a job or more if needed to provide health care for you and your family!!!!
2. graduate high school then college etc...
3. don't get knocked up when your 15 and have four more by 20
4. Spend your money on priorities instead of beer, cigaretttes, lottery tickets, meth and tattoos.
5. Don't vote democrat
6. Initiate a flat tax at no more than 10-15%
7. tax liberals and liberalism to pay for social spending
8. eliminate welfare

I don't respond much but I thought this post was interesting. I realize that you were likely being somewhat sarcastic here but this illustrates my beliefs of what die hard repubs think like, maybe someone can clarify. I consider myself a moderate btw.

1. This one seems fairly reasonable and I don't see any real flaws in this idea. I think someone who's motivated can get out there and find SOMETHING to bring in an income.
2. This is where you lose me.. If I were to only give a sh-t about myself this idea sounds great. Do you not know any honestly good people that just don't have the intellectual ability to get through college? Should they suffer because they weren't as blessed and/or lucky as the rest of us?
3. Again same issue. Does this 15 y/o really have the intellectual capability to understand the consequences of this? Or is she just trying to find some form of happiness because her daddy never hugged her and now she needs to screw 18 year old drug dealers to get attention?
4. Agree with you 100%. Really can't make any excuses for this behavior.
5. Ok.
6. Sure why not.
7. Ok.
8. Do you really think this or was it more of a joke? I think any one of us could be in their (welfare recipients) situations had just one or two events in life not gone our way.

I feel like repubs have no empathy for others, this is why I lean liberal but really don't agree with all of their stances either and I don't think the obama agenda is right for our country. But to lean republican to me feels so cold-hearted. Maybe someone can straighten me out? It pisses me off to see someone spend food stamps on potato chips but I don't think all unfortunate people should be forced to bear all the financial burden of a bad situation when our country could probably come up with a reasonable solution to provide some assistance.

 

[doctor712]

that's your CHOICE to take a 1099 position. Most of those positions pay quite a bit above a W2 job, which you could have taken if you really had to. Low housing prices are good for those low income people (who have 20% down) to get into a home. What do housing prices have to do with healthcare???? If your house is your biggest asset/ investment you are a screwed fool.

a) Wow, you're both an economist and a omnipotent mind reader. I was offered a 1099 position. Period. Though I'll tell my agent, who received the offer, to check with you next time prior to negotiating a contract.

b) let's keep it clean. name calling on the anesthesia board is so winter of 2009. if you're going to play here, keep it professional, mr. 27 posts. i would also like to say that, by your definition, my guess is 99% of americans are screwed fools. and 99.99999% of the world are screwed fools. seems like, if not decent company, safety in numbers.

c) few of your points make sense. moving on.

D712

 

[Narcotized]

name calling on the anesthesia board is so winter of 2009.
D712

That's pretty funny.

Though I have to disagree with you're premise that housing prices not rising the last 5 years is a bad thing. An overpriced housing bubble shouldn't keep rising and all government attempts to fight it's pullback are heavily misguided.

 

[pencan]

Sometimes tough love is the best form of compassion a person can offer. There is a difference between empathy and sympathy. I can empathize with people's predicaments but having had to work since I was 14 to help make ends meet I have little sympathy for people who continually make poor choices in life and expect someone else to either shoulder the burden for their mistakes or continually expect handouts with little to know consequence to their actions. If buying potato chips with food stamps pisses you off just read this article. These are not isolated incidents it happens more often than you care to think.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101102/ap_on_bi_ge/us_welfare_debit_cards

The fact is we have so many redundant programs for free food, housing etc that no one wants to work because it is easier to just get by in life with little or no effort.

I feel like repubs have no empathy for others, this is why I lean liberal but really don't agree with all of their stances either and I don't think the obama agenda is right for our country. But to lean republican to me feels so cold-hearted. Maybe someone can straighten me out? It pisses me off to see someone spend food stamps on potato chips but I don't think all unfortunate people should be forced to bear all the financial burden of a bad situation when our country could probably come up with a reasonable solution to provide some assistance.

 

[pencan]

Was it not your choice to take the 1099 position? Is there no other job anywhere in this country you could have taken that provided benefits? The comment about a house as an investment was not directed at you but at people in general that think a house is the best investment you can have.

a) Wow, you're both an economist and a omnipotent mind reader. I was offered a 1099 position. Period. Though I'll tell my agent, who received the offer, to check with you next time prior to negotiating a contract.

b) let's keep it clean. name calling on the anesthesia board is so winter of 2009. if you're going to play here, keep it professional, mr. 27 posts. i would also like to say that, by your definition, my guess is 99% of americans are screwed fools. and 99.99999% of the world are screwed fools. seems like, if not decent company, safety in numbers.

c) few of your points make sense. moving on.

D712

 

[dhb]

"In its latest move to jump start the sluggish recovery, the Federal Reserve will pump up to $900 billion into the economy."

Pour some more of that kool aid

 

[doctor712]

That's pretty funny.

Though I have to disagree with you're premise that housing prices not rising the last 5 years is a bad thing. An overpriced housing bubble shouldn't keep rising and all government attempts to fight it's pullback are heavily misguided.

Narc,

Noted. My comment was more intended to just make a point about the state of affairs, of late, economically speaking, the market, housing, jobs, etc. There's no "boom" going on and that was my point. People are struggling, out of jobs etc. But I note your point.

Sometimes tough love is the best form of compassion a person can offer. There is a difference between empathy and sympathy. I can empathize with people's predicaments but having had to work since I was 14 to help make ends meet I have little sympathy for people who continually make poor choices in life and expect someone else to either shoulder the burden for their mistakes.

Pencan,

You're not about tough love, that's a copout. Tough love works when you know and give a crap about the person. You weren't utilizing tough love, you were being a prick, and I called you on it. You're hardly compassionate and that needs to be called out as well. Take the heat when you deserve it. Don't be hypocritical. Your ideals are so generalized that they are really like debating a 7th grader who has a world-is-black-and-white view.

What's also scary is that you seem to think you have all the answers to America, and surely the world's problems. It's just that easy for you, ay?

Was it not your choice to take the 1099 position? Is there no other job anywhere in this country you could have taken that provided benefits? The comment about a house as an investment was not directed at you but at people in general that think a house is the best investment you can have.

Yes. I took the 1099 position. My choice. As a writer, in a "freelance" career, there are 1099 and W2 jobs. According to your logic, I should have taken the FT 1099 80 hour a week position, and then subsidized that with a FT
W2 paying job at McDonalds to cover my health insurance. Makes a lot of sense. Actually, it's ridiculous. Once again, black and white. I have a skill set. I work in a freelance business. A FT 1099 gig was offered when I was not otherwise employed. Sometimes that lasts 1 month, 1 week, 2 years (following WGA strike). So, your argument is: 1) get a job to cover health care to support your family. I got a job, a well paying, time consuming job in a distant city (3 hours by plane) in order to have an income. The job didn't cover health. You don't see the color gray too well do you? Not many people want to hire you when you are sitting in ANOTHER OFFICE 80 hours a week. Correct? Point: many americans are out of work and have no health insurance, when did I say I want them to get handouts? Another point: even when you HAVE a well paying job, some of them don't come with benefits, and healthcare coverage still costs a mortgage payment. Fact.

D712

 

[pencan]

you were whining about having to foot the bill for you health insurance when there are other options you could have pursued. What is wrong with working at McDonalds to subsidize your health care? It is black and white it's called making choices. You want the pay for the 1099 position and the perks of a W2 position. It is your responsibility to provide for you and your family and this typical left wing mindset of my family will suffer because I ain;'t going to work at McDonalds is exactly why we need to abolish a lot of government programs and force people to make the black and white choices. Work at McDonalds and eat or sit at home and go hungry.

Yes. I took the 1099 position. My choice. As a writer, in a "freelance" career, there are 1099 and W2 jobs. According to your logic, I should have taken the FT 1099 80 hour a week position, and then subsidized that with a FT
W2 paying job at McDonalds to cover my health insurance. Makes a lot of sense. Actually, it's ridiculous. Once again, black and white. I have a skill set. I work in a freelance business. A FT 1099 gig was offered when I was not otherwise employed. Sometimes that lasts 1 month, 1 week, 2 years (following WGA strike). So, your argument is: 1) get a job to cover health care to support your family. I got a job, a well paying, time consuming job in a distant city (3 hours by plane) in order to have an income. The job didn't cover health. You don't see the color gray too well do you? Not many people want to hire you when you are sitting in ANOTHER OFFICE 80 hours a week. Correct? Point: many americans are out of work and have no health insurance, when did I say I want them to get handouts? Another point: even when you HAVE a well paying job, some of them don't come with benefits, and healthcare coverage still costs a mortgage payment. Fact.

D712

 

[doctor712]

Who said my family was going to suffer? Who said I didn't just handle it and write the checks? Who said I ever whined? Who said I was actually considering McDonalds to get W2 coverage? Who said that would be a viable decision rather than pay for healthcare? Who said I wanted a 1099 job and expected the perks of a W2 job? Rather, I just stated fact about the reality of healthcare in the US and how some working, employed people, have no health insurance provided.

Now, you're starting to smell troll-ish because you really have childish points and have simply come here to argue, fight, insult and debate. I also question that you're an anesthesiologist, despite your limited clinical posts here, and I suggest others do the same.
Are you an anesthesiologist - we need not be to get involved here - but I'm just curious? You don't read, you just twist statements into god knows what sort of logic, and spew out nonsense. Not really bring anything useful. Therefore, I'm going to channel my inner Zen and move on from your posts. For good this time. If you thought there were a debate here, I'd further engage. but there isn't.

Best wishes,
D712

 

[pgg]

It is black and white it's called making choices. You want the pay for the 1099 position and the perks of a W2 position.

You do realize that there exist professions and industries that commonly do not offer W2 positions, right?

Asking an unemployed person to turn down a 1099 position in the field he is educated and trained for in favor of menial, dead-end work flipping burgers is utterly ******ed.


Not that there's anything wrong with menial, dead-end work if that's what it takes to support yourself ... it just takes a special kind of derp to expect every full time worker without health insurance in the United States to QUIT and go work at McDonalds.

 

[pgg]

Now, you're starting to smell troll-ish because you really have childish points and have simply come here to argue, fight, insult and debate. I also question that you're an anesthesiologist, despite your limited clinical posts here, and I suggest others do the same.
Are you an anesthesiologist

No. CRNA ... and kinda generally ambling indirectly towards that thin red line.

But generally our zero-tolerance for CRNA trollishness is only enforced when the midlevel's status is relevant to the discussion or they're just stirring up anesthesiologist vs CRNA crap. I don't think we want to get in the business of banning anyone (including CRNAs) for having unpopular opinions in off-topic threads.

 

[doctor712]

Thanks, PGG. Wasn't suggesting banning, was just trying to frame the argument.

Viva la free speech.

D712

 

[pgg]

Thanks, PGG. Wasn't suggesting banning, was just trying to frame the argument.

I know you weren't; just thought I'd head off followup questions from other quarters ...

 

[Apollyon]

If you think the Hoi Polloi of the GOP are going to invite you to the table, you are so wrong. The upper crust does not want you rednecks in their country club.

Oh man - didn't any of you (honestly) well-edumacated folks catch this? The "hoi polloi" are NOT the upper crust. Literally, in Greek, it means "the many". The "hoi polloi" are (in the words of Pulp) the common people.

 

[hoyden]

I feel like repubs have no empathy for others, this is why I lean liberal but really don't agree with all of their stances either and I don't think the obama agenda is right for our country. But to lean republican to me feels so cold-hearted. Maybe someone can straighten me out? It pisses me off to see someone spend food stamps on potato chips but I don't think all unfortunate people should be forced to bear all the financial burden of a bad situation when our country could probably come up with a reasonable solution to provide some assistance.

I have a solution for those "unfortunate" people who spend food stamps on chips ( and it will also boost your empathy for the real unfortunates) - let them exchange their American passports with anybody in, let's say, Belorus ( I am being emphatic therefore do not suggest North Korea) and let them also switch their countries as well. For a year - being emphatic, you know
And let them find themselves who is unfortunate.
It is pure ignorance on a part of self proclaimed "bleeding hearts liberals" to consider those lazy entitlement junkies "unfortunate".

 

[pgg]

I feel like repubs have no empathy for others, this is why I lean liberal but really don't agree with all of their stances either and I don't think the obama agenda is right for our country. But to lean republican to me feels so cold-hearted. Maybe someone can straighten me out?

The $50 Lesson!

I recently asked my friends' little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up.

She said she wanted to be President of the United States. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there.

So I asked her, "If you were President, what would be the first thing you would do?"

She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people...

Her parents proudly beamed.

"Wow...what a worthy goal," I told her. "But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that.

Tell you what - you can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50.

Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house." How about doing something wonderful like that?

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?"

I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Her parents still aren't speaking to me.

 

[doctor712]

The $50 Lesson!

I recently asked my friends' little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up.

She said she wanted to be President of the United States. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there.

So I asked her, "If you were President, what would be the first thing you would do?"

She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people...

Her parents proudly beamed.

"Wow...what a worthy goal," I told her. "But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that.

Tell you what - you can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50.

Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house." How about doing something wonderful like that?

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?"

I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Her parents still aren't speaking to me.

Classic.

 

[dhb]

Her parents still aren't speaking to me.

 

[pgg]

There's also the classic statement that anyone who's under 30 and isn't a Democrat has no heart, while anyone who's over 30 and isn't a Republican has no brain. But the Republican party ain't what it used to be since the hardline religious whackjobs got their tentacles and probosci into the party. They've got way too much pointless far-right religious & conservative baggage (gay marriage, abortion, the war on drugs, on and on) for me to really get behind the party. To say nothing of their own financial irresponsibility.

The problem with the admirable empathy of Demcrats is that it's become indistinguishable from another e-word: enabling.

I don't know what I am, but it's neither D nor R. If there was a party dedicated to 'cut all spending 25% and let the chips fall where they may' I'd be there. Because in the end none of this D-led tearful social empathy or R-led gay marriage screeching is going to matter a bit when the debt tips over and the dollar is worthless.

 

[DREDAY]

I used to be liberal... still am w/ social issues ie. gay rights, stem cell research, abortion etc.

I've become more conservative with economic responsibility. I think the only people that the government should help out are those that cant help themselves such as children, elderly, disabled and working single moms. If you are between 18 and 60.... you better be working and taking care of yourself.

There's also the classic statement that anyone who's under 30 and isn't a Democrat has no heart, while anyone who's over 30 and isn't a Republican has no brain. But the Republican party ain't what it used to be since the hardline religious whackjobs got their tentacles and probosci into the party. They've got way too much pointless far-right religious & conservative baggage (gay marriage, abortion, the war on drugs, on and on) for me to really get behind the party. To say nothing of their own financial irresponsibility.

The problem with the admirable empathy of Demcrats is that it's become indistinguishable from another e-word: enabling.

I don't know what I am, but it's neither D nor R. If there was a party dedicated to 'cut all spending 25% and let the chips fall where they may' I'd be there. Because in the end none of this D-led tearful social empathy or R-led gay marriage screeching is going to matter a bit when the debt tips over and the dollar is worthless.

 

[Coastie]

I feel like repubs have no empathy for others, this is why I lean liberal but really don't agree with all of their stances either and I don't think the obama agenda is right for our country. But to lean republican to me feels so cold-hearted. Maybe someone can straighten me out? It pisses me off to see someone spend food stamps on potato chips but I don't think all unfortunate people should be forced to bear all the financial burden of a bad situation when our country could probably come up with a reasonable solution to provide some assistance.

There needs to be a safety net for those who can't provide for themselves, no question.

However, having a big nanny welfare state, like we have now, doesn't help people, it hurts them in the long run.

Personal responsibility is absolutely necessary to maintain freedom. Our country remains the best in the history of the world, but it won't always be if we lose personal responsibility amongst the populace.

The dems think that the gov't has all the answers. My faith is in the American people, and their ability to take care of themselves. This basic principle plays itself out in many ways...The dems want big govt, I want small govt. They want "free" healthcare for all, I say that the gov't should get the hell out of the way so prices can come down.

At the end of the day, most of us want the same thing: a better life for all Americans. Unfortunately, the way Obama/Pelosi/Dems want to accomplish it is via socialism/communism, which has historically led to economic failure, dictatorships, and more civilian deaths in the 20th century than probably any other cause.

(Check out The Black Book of Communism for more details on civi deaths related to commie regimes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism)

 

[hoyden]

The $50 Lesson!

I recently asked my friends' little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up.

She said she wanted to be President of the United States. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there.

So I asked her, "If you were President, what would be the first thing you would do?"

She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people...

Her parents proudly beamed.

"Wow...what a worthy goal," I told her. "But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that.

Tell you what - you can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50.

Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house." How about doing something wonderful like that?

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?"

I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Her parents still aren't speaking to me.

 

[hoyden]

Skewed empathy of "bleeding hearts liberals" exists only through others people money.

 

[Laryngophed]

There's also the classic statement that anyone who's under 30 and isn't a Democrat has no heart, while anyone who's over 30 and isn't a Republican has no brain. But the Republican party ain't what it used to be since the hardline religious whackjobs got their tentacles and probosci into the party. They've got way too much pointless far-right religious & conservative baggage (gay marriage, abortion, the war on drugs, on and on) for me to really get behind the party. To say nothing of their own financial irresponsibility.

The problem with the admirable empathy of Demcrats is that it's become indistinguishable from another e-word: enabling.

I don't know what I am, but it's neither D nor R. If there was a party dedicated to 'cut all spending 25% and let the chips fall where they may' I'd be there. Because in the end none of this D-led tearful social empathy or R-led gay marriage screeching is going to matter a bit when the debt tips over and the dollar is worthless.

I used to be liberal... still am w/ social issues ie. gay rights, stem cell research, abortion etc.

I've become more conservative with economic responsibility. I think the only people that the government should help out are those that cant help themselves such as children, elderly, disabled and working single moms. If you are between 18 and 60.... you better be working and taking care of yourself.

There needs to be a safety net for those who can't provide for themselves, no question.

However, having a big nanny welfare state, like we have now, doesn't help people, it hurts them in the long run.

Personal responsibility is absolutely necessary to maintain freedom. Our country remains the best in the history of the world, but it won't always be if we lose personal responsibility amongst the populace.

The dems think that the gov't has all the answers. My faith is in the American people, and their ability to take care of themselves. This basic principle plays itself out in many ways...The dems want big govt, I want small govt. They want "free" healthcare for all, I say that the gov't should get the hell out of the way so prices can come down.

At the end of the day, most of us want the same thing: a better life for all Americans. Unfortunately, the way Obama/Pelosi/Dems want to accomplish it is via socialism/communism, which has historically led to economic failure, dictatorships, and more civilian deaths in the 20th century than probably any other cause.

(Check out The Black Book of Communism for more details on civi deaths related to commie regimes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism)

Yes to all of this.

 

[CVRN]

The $50 Lesson!

I recently asked my friends' little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up.

She said she wanted to be President of the United States. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there.

So I asked her, "If you were President, what would be the first thing you would do?"

She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people...

Her parents proudly beamed.

"Wow...what a worthy goal," I told her. "But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that.

Tell you what - you can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50.

Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house." How about doing something wonderful like that?

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?"

I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Her parents still aren't speaking to me.

Appreciate the responses, especially this one ^^, thats f----- funny.

I still wonder if a lot of us (liberals and repubs) aren't somewhat on the same page when it comes to welfare. I think you all would still want to provide welfare for those who really need it (single moms, disabled, etc.) but are fed up with people who are lazy and just abuse the system. I agree with all of that. I just don't think there is any way to police it properly and therefore if you want to help those who are truly in need you gotta get screwed by some who really could help themselves. I'd be all for fresh new ideas on how to efficiently "police" the welfare system to eliminate those who abusing it but I just dont see how it could be done. Seems to me like the republican party would cut welfare and knowingly put some people out in the cold that didn't really deserve it and democrats would gladly continue spending to take care of these people until our national debt makes us all homeless. I'm willing to admit that I don't have a CLUE what the "right" answer is and I don't think anyone really does.

 

[deleted50478]

Appreciate the responses, especially this one ^^, thats f----- funny.

I still wonder if a lot of us (liberals and repubs) aren't somewhat on the same page when it comes to welfare. I think you all would still want to provide welfare for those who really need it (single moms, disabled, etc.) but are fed up with people who are lazy and just abuse the system. I agree with all of that. I just don't think there is any way to police it properly and therefore if you want to help those who are truly in need you gotta get screwed by some who really could help themselves. I'd be all for fresh new ideas on how to efficiently "police" the welfare system to eliminate those who abusing it but I just dont see how it could be done. Seems to me like the republican party would cut welfare and knowingly put some people out in the cold that didn't really deserve it and democrats would gladly continue spending to take care of these people until our national debt makes us all homeless. I'm willing to admit that I don't have a CLUE what the "right" answer is and I don't think anyone really does.

You could start with drug testing as an eligibility criterion for any welfare program.
We also shouldn't importing other countries' social problems and add them to our welfare roles.
I'm happy to contribute my share to programs to help people who have been laid off as they transition back to work.

Single moms are a tough one. They really don't deserve ****, but you also would like to help the kid. It's just tough to help the kid without giving mom a free ride and without encouraging the whole neighborhood to get pregnant and ride the gravy train.
I'd rather pay low-income daycare subsidies than pay someone to sit home all day. At least that would stop incentivising poor decision making.

Making able bodied people work is the only way to make people want to get a better job.
Instead of sending people checks, food stamps, and paying their section 8 housing costs we could give them the same amount of money to sort trash for recycling, dig ditches, etc. (rather than smoking pot or drinking all day), and we'd see a lot of people moving from welfare to work. As long as the available jobs aren't more fun and don't pay much more than drinking all day, then you are going to have lots of people on the dole by choice.

 

[DREDAY]

You could start with drug testing as an eligibility criterion for any welfare program.
We also shouldn't importing other countries' social problems and add them to our welfare roles.
I'm happy to contribute my share to programs to help people who have been laid off as they transition back to work.

Single moms are a tough one. They really don't deserve ****, but you also would like to help the kid. It's just tough to help the kid without giving mom a free ride and without encouraging the whole neighborhood to get pregnant and ride the gravy train.
I'd rather pay low-income daycare subsidies than pay someone to sit home all day. At least that would stop incentivising poor decision making.

Making able bodied people work is the only way to make people want to get a better job.
Instead of sending people checks, food stamps, and paying their section 8 housing costs we could give them the same amount of money to sort trash for recycling, dig ditches, etc. (rather than smoking pot or drinking all day), and we'd see a lot of people moving from welfare to work. As long as the available jobs aren't more fun and don't pay much more than drinking all day, then you are going to have lots of people on the dole by choice.

 

[cfdavid]

You could start with drug testing as an eligibility criterion for any welfare program.
We also shouldn't importing other countries' social problems and add them to our welfare roles.
I'm happy to contribute my share to programs to help people who have been laid off as they transition back to work.

Single moms are a tough one. They really don't deserve ****, but you also would like to help the kid. It's just tough to help the kid without giving mom a free ride and without encouraging the whole neighborhood to get pregnant and ride the gravy train.
I'd rather pay low-income daycare subsidies than pay someone to sit home all day. At least that would stop incentivising poor decision making.

Making able bodied people work is the only way to make people want to get a better job.
Instead of sending people checks, food stamps, and paying their section 8 housing costs we could give them the same amount of money to sort trash for recycling, dig ditches, etc. (rather than smoking pot or drinking all day), and we'd see a lot of people moving from welfare to work. As long as the available jobs aren't more fun and don't pay much more than drinking all day, then you are going to have lots of people on the dole by choice.

I second this. It's easy to "point the finger" but come on. We have too many unsustainable policies, and more importantly we're creating the ultimate in entitlement societies by NOT making "tough" decisions. The cultural shift is more damaging to our society than any of the financial waste. It's hard to overstate this problem. So, it's not even about the money as much (funny money?).

We're in serious trouble guys.

 

[McLovin]

Because since 2006 when the Dems took control of both houses of Congress we have indebted our children and the next succeeding 5 generation with 5 trillion in debt with nothing to show for it except a few more buidings in West Virginia named after a dead former klan member. Obama was part of the ruling class in the Senate. How is someone who is pregnant uninsured????? I don't know of any state that does not offer free loader health insurance for anyone who is pregnant. Obama is a socialist and a morally corrupt inept community organizer (race hustler/ corporate shakedown artist). He tries to implement a health care system but isn't even qualified to empty bed pans in a hospital. His wife diverted patients seeking emergency services at her hospital (no show job at that) to other hospitals within Chicago. Who said the stimulus would keep unemplyment in check at 8% or less.

I think we we started leaving our children with a debt well before 2006 when the dems took over and well after 2000 when Clinton left office, no?

 

[countingdays]

I think we we started leaving our children with a debt well before 2006 when the dems took over and well after 2000 when Clinton left office, no?

The costs of medicare, medicaid, and social security far outweigh those of the actual debt. Those are all socialist democrat programs.

 

[pgg]

I think we we started leaving our children with a debt well before 2006 when the dems took over and well after 2000 when Clinton left office, no?

No, deficit spending really took off back in the Reagan years. It's not a D vs R problem.