job options for a MD without residency?

[medkid25j]

Work for Pharmacy Based Management or insurance companies in auditing PBM transactions, or underwrite insurance claims. I am work for the government with my Carib MD in underwriting insurance (mostly medicare) claims, and pay is alright. But that's because government pay is very strict, and pay goes up the longer you are in the system.

Qualifies for student loan forgiveness if you have all federal loans (non parent plus). 8:30-5 life, but man is it great. Instead of seeing like 20 patients in a day with 10 minute each, while documenting everything; you get like 2-3 cases to work on a day. Honestly, you can finish it in a 3 hours if you hustle. But most people spread it out slowly so they won't be bored. IE Walk over to water cooler, take breaks, go to random meetings, organize potlucks at work, and so on.

Also you don't get treated like a dog. No more being yelled at over **** you can't control. Or making mistakes like a human being. In the real world outside of medicine, people emphasize family/friends over the job.

1) You are sick? Call in sick.
2) Got family emergency? Take emergency leave.
3) Have a off day and make a mistake? They pull you to side and politely tell you.
4) Overwhelmed? Talk to manager, he/she will help you out.
5) Just doing your job with alright effort? Get heaps of praises from coworkers and managers, positive work environment buddy.
6) I use to feel I was a bad person, because residents and attendings were just outright mean to me for no reason. Like I am socially awkward or didn't belong in life. I realize after I started working outside the hosptial. It was just the residents and attendings that are just plain mean with no social skills. Out here at work, I get to be happy/flourish. No more self-doubt of who I am, and the value of me as a human being.

The best part? Those mean attending are paying for my $1 million dollar in student loans being forgiven (compound interest over 10 years). They are also paying for my paychecks through taxes. My pension will be covered by tax payers. Get to retire at 55 if I want. Working on getting in shape, and living longer so that way I can stretch out my pension longer. Also job security once you finish probation. Union job! Only way to lose job is if your company goes bankrupt (IE if the government goes bankrupt). If the government goes bankrupt, you got bigger things to worry then losing your job.

So yeah, there are job opportunities out there without residency.

Hi there, I was browsing through the forums when I stumbled upon a comment under the MD jobs without residency. I am currently in a financial crisis and unfortunately not able to pass my STEP 1 exam. I'd like to know more about your job in underwriting insurance claims. Do I need any certifications and what steps I need to do to get in a position like that for the government. My loans are a burden on me and I cannot manage. It would mean the world to me if you can help out. Thanks in advance!

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[Alienman52]

OP was unprofessional. I don't understand why it's so hard for all of you to understand this. It's very clear.

There are expectations and op didn't meet them. OP went out of their way to trample on them.

Your attitude is the embodiment of the reason I rarely come on these forums anymore. Just shameful. Shame on you.

 

[funtertaining15]

A family member passed away and I tried to take a day off to attend the funeral. My clerkship director straight up told me "you chose a career where you have to make sacrifices" and did not allow me to take 1 day off. I took the day off anyway and drove to the funeral. As a result, I received very bad marks in my professionalism categories on my evaluations as well as comments regarding my professionalism. I appealed and in short, nothing happened. I don't know what kind of human being could say such words, and it wasn't just the clerkship director who said that but those who were higher up in the administration ay my school basically agreed with that attending because nothing happened with my appeal. I'm sure not all doctors are like that but being punished for attending to a family member's funeral is just beyond belief. My view of doctors has totally changed. I don't want to be a part of a profession that does this kind of stuff.

Don't let that one experience skew your outlook. I'm appalled (I don't use that word often) that they would tell you that and react in that manner...I know several of my classmates who started off in my m1 class...a few failed 1 too many but we're able to come back in the following class...one of my classmates family member passed and she just started a clerkship and they still let her have time off...just rearranged her clerkship schedule for her...lots of people with life experiences that have happened that my school has been able to work around...i can't imagine someone telling you something like that...what a horrible thing to say and they're a horrible person for saying something like that to you and allowing that to affect your grade.. please know not everyone is like that!!
Edit: OP good luck, glad you decided to keep going!
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[zoner]

Work for Pharmacy Based Management or insurance companies in auditing PBM transactions, or underwrite insurance claims. I am work for the government with my Carib MD in underwriting insurance (mostly medicare) claims, and pay is alright. But that's because government pay is very strict, and pay goes up the longer you are in the system.

Qualifies for student loan forgiveness if you have all federal loans (non parent plus). 8:30-5 life, but man is it great. Instead of seeing like 20 patients in a day with 10 minute each, while documenting everything; you get like 2-3 cases to work on a day. Honestly, you can finish it in a 3 hours if you hustle. But most people spread it out slowly so they won't be bored. IE Walk over to water cooler, take breaks, go to random meetings, organize potlucks at work, and so on.

Also you don't get treated like a dog. No more being yelled at over **** you can't control. Or making mistakes like a human being. In the real world outside of medicine, people emphasize family/friends over the job.

1) You are sick? Call in sick.
2) Got family emergency? Take emergency leave.
3) Have a off day and make a mistake? They pull you to side and politely tell you.
4) Overwhelmed? Talk to manager, he/she will help you out.
5) Just doing your job with alright effort? Get heaps of praises from coworkers and managers, positive work environment buddy.
6) I use to feel I was a bad person, because residents and attendings were just outright mean to me for no reason. Like I am socially awkward or didn't belong in life. I realize after I started working outside the hosptial. It was just the residents and attendings that are just plain mean with no social skills. Out here at work, I get to be happy/flourish. No more self-doubt of who I am, and the value of me as a human being.

The best part? Those mean attending are paying for my $1 million dollar in student loans being forgiven (compound interest over 10 years). They are also paying for my paychecks through taxes. My pension will be covered by tax payers. Get to retire at 55 if I want. Working on getting in shape, and living longer so that way I can stretch out my pension longer. Also job security once you finish probation. Union job! Only way to lose job is if your company goes bankrupt (IE if the government goes bankrupt). If the government goes bankrupt, you got bigger things to worry then losing your job.

So yeah, there are job opportunities out there without residency.

How do you get a job like that? What qualifications do you need?

 

[thxleave]

How do you get a job like that? What qualifications do you need?

I work for a self funded insurance company. People pay premiums into the fund, and we pay health plans for administration fees. These organization needs underwriters, grievance specialists, and health informatics.

I started out with underwriting and grievances. Trick was to put myself and be clear I won’t be leaving. Most of my interviews weren’t about if I can do the job. But why am I applying and if I will leave with better opportunities. So it’s more about selling you as a person then qualifications.

I ended up being promoted to health informatics unit. Benefits is that I am salaried now. So if I finish early, I am doing 30 hour shifts at most. It takes other people longer since they don’t have clinical background.

It’s basically a numbers game, and you’ll need a cover letter to probably get callbacks. I used my clinical rotations as job experience. I labeled it srudent doctor instead of medical student. I spinned it and basically said I did medical school and graduate. I am use to 80 hour weeks with life and death decisions. I don’t know much about how insurance is ran, but I’ll be on ground floor running. They toss us in surgery, and other rotations with no instructions, so I am confident I can learn. Though try to be humble too while interviewing.

I tried deleting the MD, but the gap is too much, you won’t get call backs. Best to just be transparent.

 

[Gorne]

lmao at conflating op's situation with rosa parks

OP got dinged for professionalism. OP acted unprofessionally. I don't see the issue here.

Who decides what is unprofessional? One could argue the clerkship director penalizing a student with no actual responsibilities in patient care for taking ONE DAY to attend the funeral of a family member "unprofessional". Just because something is a rule, doesn't make it right. It was once deemed "professional" in medicine to cut out a woman's uterus to cure her hysteria. It was once "unprofessional" for a woman to be anything other than a secretary.

To any normal human, what OP did was well within his rights given the situation. To people like you, it wasn't. And that's why people don't like people like you.

 

[Gorne]

Family member's are not close relatives? I don't think we're using the same language.

OP is a 3rd year med student. They are not the ones that decide what days they get off. They have supervisors.

The school should have let them off for the day? As I said (twice above.........) probably. I most likely would let a student off. It doesn't change the fact that they were not given the day off. And the repercussions for not showing up were pretty light. If the school was kicking the student out, I would agree it was overblown. Getting a less than stellar performance on professionalism for blatantly disregarding your duties? Seems reasonable.

"Disregarding your duties" LOL.

 

[moisne]

I don't know the answer to this...but I do know that relatively a large portion of california med students don't go into residency and get a job instead. Not sure exactly which field. They make pretty good money too.

 

[FFH]

There are so many great choices: working for start up health care companies as a consultant, getting an MBA and be your clerkship director's boss, etc. I have come across multiple people returning to do residency later after some excursions and are very successful and some never returned and are successfully being happy too.
Do what you can handle mentally and emotionally. Sometimes people get into a rut and can take years to get out. You might be handling a tons of pressure that you aren't even realize, like many many med students. There is one NYU student just ended her life right before starting residency.

 

[SilverCat]

I’m curious as to why OP wants to leave medicine behind because of one bad experience with one attending. Especially at M3 level. There must be more to the story.

I mean, I had one attending who refused to speak with students, didn’t read our notes, and openly mocked the residents on service, one of whom said they cried every night. It was a month of hell, but I didn’t reconsider my entire life trajectory because of it—I just accepted that surgery wasn’t for me.

 

[Chris42]

The tread started in 2016.

I’m curious as to why OP wants to leave medicine behind because of one bad experience with one attending. Especially at M3 level. There must be more to the story.

I mean, I had one attending who refused to speak with students, didn’t read our notes, and openly mocked the residents on service, one of whom said they cried every night. It was a month of hell, but I didn’t reconsider my entire life trajectory because of it—I just accepted that surgery wasn’t for me.

I agree with you.

Frankly, I did poorly in much of medical school, but became a cheif resident. Much more to the story.

 

[croak2]

So you missed a funeral. That's just the beginning. You'll miss plenty of funerals, births of your children, time with your spouse, playing with your kids, dinners, parties, and all sort of things beyond the scope of this page. You chose medical school blithely, and all that comes with it. Okay, you didn't know what you were getting into. There are plenty of nonclinical 'jobs' and careers that can use your MD (the post by the person with the gig at insurance industry

 

[croak2]

I work for a self funded insurance company. People pay premiums into the fund, and we pay health plans for administration fees. These organization needs underwriters, grievance specialists, and health informatics.

I started out with underwriting and grievances. Trick was to put myself and be clear I won’t be leaving. Most of my interviews weren’t about if I can do the job. But why am I applying and if I will leave with better opportunities. So it’s more about selling you as a person then qualifications.

I ended up being promoted to health informatics unit. Benefits is that I am salaried now. So if I finish early, I am doing 30 hour shifts at most. It takes other people longer since they don’t have clinical background.

It’s basically a numbers game, and you’ll need a cover letter to probably get callbacks. I used my clinical rotations as job experience. I labeled it srudent doctor instead of medical student. I spinned it and basically said I did medical school and graduate. I am use to 80 hour weeks with life and death decisions. I don’t know much about how insurance is ran, but I’ll be on ground floor running. They toss us in surgery, and other rotations with no instructions, so I am confident I can learn. Though try to be humble too while interviewing.

I tried deleting the MD, but the gap is too much, you won’t get call backs. Best to just be transparent.

That is incredibly brilliant. Man, (you may be a woman), that's the most imaginative maneuver I've seen in years. Good luck, don't think you'll need it--

 

[500miles]

Why doesn't matter. OP has the ability to make choices. They chose to miss a day against clearly defined expectations. Choices have consequences.

God this guy sucks so bad. you must be fun to have a beer with.. no that would be "unprofessional".

 

[Giovanotto]

So you missed a funeral. That's just the beginning. You'll miss plenty of funerals, births of your children, time with your spouse, playing with your kids, dinners, parties, and all sort of things beyond the scope of this page. You chose medical school blithely, and all that comes with it. Okay, you didn't know what you were getting into. There are plenty of nonclinical 'jobs' and careers that can use your MD (the post by the person with the gig at insurance industry

Hm, what? I don't care what stage of training I'm in, if someone important in my life has died, or my children are being born, you bet your ass I won't be at work, lmao, you can't be serious.

 

[croak2]

Hm, what? I don't care what stage of training I'm in, if someone important in my life has died, or my children are being born, you bet your ass I won't be at work, lmao, you can't be serious.

"You can't be serious." Why? You didn't read the fine print. Consider this: All of us have different points of view, dramatic needs, attitudes, character traits, and an ability to change. Reading posts from strangers on the internet only gives a glimpse, and quarreling is not with the time or energy. Listen: When you signed up for medicine you pretty much didn't realize you don't own your life anymore—or at least for a while —Patients come first. As far as funerals, I personally don't go to them anyway. I know you pay your respects to the living, but my preference is remembering dead folks as they were. Personal preference. My kids grew up, and a pair of ex-wives prosper. You made a choice, and some stranger's life often takes precedence over your personal passions. Hey, I'm retired from clinical practice, and still don't go to funerals unless it's someone I'd like seeing dead. But that's just me, and my wacky ways.

 

[FlowRate]

The oldschool medicine academic attending types love to be able to brag about missing a family member's funeral in favor of continuity of care. Better if it's parent/sibling. Reminds you how much more professional and dedicated they are than you.

 

[croak2]

The oldschool medicine academic attending types love to be able to brag about missing a family member's funeral in favor of continuity of care. Better if it's parent/sibling. Reminds you how much more professional and dedicated they are than you.

Thanks, I'll file this under the: "Because I said so extrapolations."

 

[W19]

"You can't be serious." Why? You didn't read the fine print. Consider this: All of us have different points of view, dramatic needs, attitudes, character traits, and an ability to change. Reading posts from strangers on the internet only gives a glimpse, and quarreling is not with the time or energy. Listen: When you signed up for medicine you pretty much didn't realize you don't own your life anymore—or at least for a while —Patients come first. As far as funerals, I personally don't go to them anyway. I know you pay your respects to the living, but my preference is remembering dead folks as they were. Personal preference. My kids grew up, and a pair of ex-wives prosper. You made a choice, and some stranger's life often takes precedence over your personal passions. Hey, I'm retired from clinical practice, and still don't go to funerals unless it's someone I'd like seeing dead. But that's just me, and my wacky ways.

Sorry, I come first...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Sorry, I come first...

So if you are mid surgery, you'll just leave if something more important to do comes up?

Obviously as with everything there's a continuum. On one end is the stuff you will finish no matter what else is going on, and all the other stuff so insignificant that you can miss it for a haircut.

My personal belief is for the medical student, pretty much everything skews more towards the haircut side of the spectrum while for residents and attendings it's more on the other side.

 

[W19]

So if you are mid surgery, you'll just leave if something more important to do comes up?

Obviously as with everything there's a continuum. On one end is the stuff you will finish no matter what else is going on, and all the other stuff so insignificant that you can miss it for a haircut.

My personal belief is for the medical student, pretty much everything skews more towards the haircut side of the spectrum while for residents and attendings it's more on the other side.

If we are talking about a continuum, I am sure most people will agree. But the idea that patients take precedence over everything (including my wellbeing) is BS...

 

[link2swim06]

Training sucks. You gotta jump through the unreasonable hoops. Hopefully you knew that before you started this journey.

It's way better as an attending, if you ran into that issue as an attending, you just find a new job, with a emergency backup/call schedule, problem solved. Or just avoid the problem by picking a specialty that supports the values you align with...

 

[croak2]

Training does have its crappy side. Just pick something you enjoy doing.

 

[mimelim]

So if you are mid surgery, you'll just leave if something more important to do comes up?

Obviously as with everything there's a continuum. On one end is the stuff you will finish no matter what else is going on, and all the other stuff so insignificant that you can miss it for a haircut.

My personal belief is for the medical student, pretty much everything skews more towards the haircut side of the spectrum while for residents and attendings it's more on the other side.

A couple years back at my institution, there was a resident who left early because they, "had to leave before 6pm so they could make it to their hair appointment." This was followed several weeks later by a, "I have to leave before 6pm for a massage". The excuse being that the appointment was made 3 months in advance. Obviously the residents that had to pick up the slack for that individual were not pleased.

On the positive side, that individual no longer practices medicine in any capacity and will not in the future. (A tad more to the story than what I'll put in this thread, but that is the one liner)

 

[zoner]

I work for a self funded insurance company. People pay premiums into the fund, and we pay health plans for administration fees. These organization needs underwriters, grievance specialists, and health informatics.

I started out with underwriting and grievances. Trick was to put myself and be clear I won’t be leaving. Most of my interviews weren’t about if I can do the job. But why am I applying and if I will leave with better opportunities. So it’s more about selling you as a person then qualifications.

I ended up being promoted to health informatics unit. Benefits is that I am salaried now. So if I finish early, I am doing 30 hour shifts at most. It takes other people longer since they don’t have clinical background.

It’s basically a numbers game, and you’ll need a cover letter to probably get callbacks. I used my clinical rotations as job experience. I labeled it srudent doctor instead of medical student. I spinned it and basically said I did medical school and graduate. I am use to 80 hour weeks with life and death decisions. I don’t know much about how insurance is ran, but I’ll be on ground floor running. They toss us in surgery, and other rotations with no instructions, so I am confident I can learn. Though try to be humble too while interviewing.

I tried deleting the MD, but the gap is too much, you won’t get call backs. Best to just be transparent.

What are some companies I can look into?

 

[gyngyn]

What are some companies I can look into?

Do you have a license?

 

[zoner]

Do you have a license?

Yes

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

A couple years back at my institution, there was a resident who left early because they, "had to leave before 6pm so they could make it to their hair appointment." This was followed several weeks later by a, "I have to leave before 6pm for a massage". The excuse being that the appointment was made 3 months in advance. Obviously the residents that had to pick up the slack for that individual were not pleased.

On the positive side, that individual no longer practices medicine in any capacity and will not in the future. (A tad more to the story than what I'll put in this thread, but that is the one liner)

To be fair...I’ve left before for a hair appointment (my hairstylist at the time didn’t work weekends). Of course I was never stupid enough to tell anyone where i was going.


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[mimelim]

To be fair...I’ve left before for a hair appointment (my hairstylist at the time didn’t work weekends). Of course I was never stupid enough to tell anyone where i was going.


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Ya,but were you a junior resident in the ICU supposed to stay until 6pm? I'm all for trying to get people to live a normalish life, but you cant just assume that people will cover your ****.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Ya,but were you a junior resident in the ICU supposed to stay until 6pm? I'm all for trying to get people to live a normalish life, but you cant just assume that people will cover your ****.

Haha, no... I was a senior resident though.


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[IMGASMD]

Haha, no... I was a senior resident though.


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Not sure if you guys have some sort of inside jokes going on....?
I did my internship at one of those places that would let observant Jew leave before sunset on Friday. One of my co-intern was an observant Jew who happened to have one her her ICU months in the middle of Jan. She certainly left every single Fridays before 3. And obviously no Fri/Sat calls.

By June she was also 8 months pregnant which happened to be one of her night float rotations. She got a doctors note try to get out of night float, because of her medical condition. ?Unable to adjust to circadian rhythm, or some BS.

Needless to say she wasn’t the most loved interns in our class. Also PD caught onto her BS, told he straight out, if you need to stay home due to pregnancy, you can. You will owe the program for that time, and you’d have to come back to finish. (We were prelim). Miraculously, she was cured of her ailment instantly.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Not an inside joke. Obviously if it’s for a good reason like religious observance that’s ok. But not a hair appt or massage!


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[DSM_302.0]

This was one hell of a thread. @Syndicate, did you graduate and enter residency?