Jobs in New York!

[PsyDInspired]

Hello everyone!

I was curious if anyone has any idea what the current situation is like to find a job in New York City?

What is the average income expected to earn in New York?
I want to move there by July-August..is it possible to find a decent job to afford to live in New York?

I have a Masters in Clinical Psychology, Marriage and Family Therapy and will be there on a limited license, meaning having to work under a licensed professional.

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[ClinicalPHD5]

if you look at job postings...the salaries are pretty low---25,000-30,000. You cannot live of this income in NYC. Considering that PsyD/PHD salaries start in the 25,000-35,000 range and people are having a hard time finding a job, I am not sure what your chances are with a masters. The entire MH system is really flooded and everyone has been affected by budget cuts.

 

[BiggE]

flooded with LCSWs

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

if you look at job postings...the salaries are pretty low---25,000-30,000. You cannot live of this income in NYC. Considering that PsyD/PHD salaries start in the 25,000-35,000 range and people are having a hard time finding a job, I am not sure what your chances are with a masters. The entire MH system is really flooded and everyone has been affected by budget cuts.

Can you please stop posting stuff like this? It is not remotely accurate, and it only perpetuates misinformation about the current state of the field...which admittedly isn't awesome, but far from that bad. Someone who goes to an APA-acred. program, acred. internship (APA pref, but APPIC is typically fine), and gets licensed can make a decent wage somewhere. NYC is one of the most expensive places to live in the country, but pretty much anywhere else it is doable.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Can you please stop posting stuff like this? It is not remotely accurate, and it only perpetuates misinformation about the current state of the field...which admittedly isn't awesome, but far from that bad. Someone who goes to an APA-acred. program, acred. internship (APA pref, but APPIC is typically fine), and gets licensed can make a decent wage somewhere. NYC is one of the most expensive places to live in the country, but pretty much anywhere else it is doable.

Agreed. The average national salary for psychologists is twice that listed. I know of quite a few newly-minted Ph.D.'s who live in/around NYC, so it's definitely possible, you just have to plan ahead and make sound financial decisions. Also, as with nearly everyone else living in NYC, some sacrifices are required.

 

[aagman01]

Is that $25,000 - $35,000 number accurate for phds starting off in the NYC area, though? Or is that just the salary of a MSW/LPSs (I do have a MSW friend who started off at just over 35,000, although she has bumped up into the 40s in her third year post MSW). While I know I won't be wealthy, I'm hoping to re-settle in the area and am a bit worried by that low number

Agreed. The average national salary for psychologists is twice that listed. I know of quite a few newly-minted Ph.D.'s who live in/around NYC, so it's definitely possible, you just have to plan ahead and make sound financial decisions. Also, as with nearly everyone else living in NYC, some sacrifices are required.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Is that $25,000 - $35,000 number accurate for phds starting off in the NYC area, though? Or is that just the salary of a MSW/LPSs (I do have a MSW friend who started off at just over 35,000, although she has bumped up into the 40s in her third year post MSW). While I know I won't be wealthy, I'm hoping to re-settle in the area and am a bit worried by that low number

I would be very surprised if the average starting salary of psychologists anywhere in the country was $25-35k/year. I realize that psychologists in their first (pre-licensure) year are often paid less than post-license, but even then, I'd imagine $25k-35k/year to be on the lower end of that range.

If some positions on NYC really are that low for the first year, you could always do your supervised practice elsewhere, and then relocate to NYC once you become license eligible.

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

I wonder what sources of information we are each using? First of all, the APA salary survey is only based on licensed psychologist who are at least mid-career (mean of 8 years after licensure). Aside from the VA (which pays 45,000 for post-doc), most entry level positions (i'm referring to post-docs and jobs) pay 25,000-35,000. I subscribe to a listserve that provides me with post-docs and my training director forwards emails to me. Most of the counseling center post-docs pay 25-30,000 and medical center post-docs i've seen are on the low end too. Harbor-UCLA's post-doc pays 30,000 and NYU Child study center post-docs pay 30,000. I also personally know about 10-15 recent graduates from good programs who just graduated in September and their salaries are pretty low (they are clinical not research focused). Some took counseling center post-docs, medical centers, and some are trying to make it in private practice. The ones I know in private practice as psychological assistants are making less than 25,000 and have to supplement their income with other jobs.

SHOW ME SOME HARD DATA BEFORE YOU MAKE BROAD GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT BEGINNING SALARIES AFTER EARNING A PSYD/PHD.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

SHOW ME SOME HARD DATA BEFORE YOU MAKE BROAD GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT BEGINNING SALARIES AFTER EARNING A PSYD/PHD.

Fine. Here are the numbers relevant for me as a neuropsychology fellow.

Here is the 2011 Salary Survey from TCN. Please see Table 14 for salary ranges of <1-5 years in practice. I've copied the relevant data for you.

<1-5 years in practice
n=304
Mean: 94.1
Median: 86.0
SD 51.2
25%: 75.0
75%: 100.0
95%: 160.0
99%: 219.2

The fellowship years need some work (1st yr mean: 34.7k, 2nd yr mean: 37.8k). I can only speak to the places I considered, and the salaries ranged from $34k to $60k, with the average probably be in the high 30's. The VA positions tend to be in the low 40's, and academic medicine anywhere from mid 30's to high 40's. I've been told jobs after fellowship range from $70k-$85k and higher, depending on location/competitiveness/research funding/etc. All in line with the above numbers.

 

[aventurine]

The ONLY postings I've ever seen that pay doctoral-level psychologists anywhere close to $25-35K are post-docs--not regular, salaried positions.

The lowest salary I have heard of for a doctoral-level psychologist in NYC was somewhere around $50K, doing evaluations for the police department, though I think this may have increased a bit. Not sure about private institutions, but in the city system, a pre-licensure psychologist earns in the mid $60Ks and a licensed psychologist in the mid $70Ks, I believe. The state system is similar, except the salary increases every year by about $2K until you hit whatever the "job rate" is (for licensed, it is ~$84K). Friends who investigated working in nursing homes and long-term care facilities told me that they pay in the mid $60Ks (these are usually more flexible in terms of allowing part-time, if you're trying to start a practice, and they are always hiring--but you normally don't have your own office space in whatever facility they place you, and unless you are full-time, I don't believe you get benefits). College counseling center positions I've heard of pay from the mid $50Ks to the mid $60Ks.

It is difficult to find a good job here without a license these days. The city and state systems, which used to hire non-licensed psychologists and even masters-level clinicians really prioritize finding licensed psychologists now, if they can. Plus, there are budget freezes and layoffs.

As far as postings go, I've seen few for generalists, and a decent number for those with certain specializations (e.g., developmental disabilities, college counseling, school, neuro, behavioral medicine). There are occasional fee-for-service positions, but they tend to pay less well.

I've seen research positions for doctoral-level psychologists (for those with a strong research background) posted for $60-80K....and I worked in a research setting prior to beginning grad school so I know some of the research positions are filled by recent doctoral grads. For masters-level clinicians, though, I believe the pay is usually between $30-50K.

I have not seen many ads for masters-level clinicians, but it is also possible that I wasn't looking in the places where those would be posted. I definitely haven't searched for marriage and family therapist positions.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This was also from the above article:

...mean and median data from 2005 suggest that a common starting salary was approximately 65,000 dollars, whereas present data suggest that a common starting salary is in the range of 75,000&#8211;80,000 dollars. This range would, of course, vary by state and region.

I think this is the most important take away message:

Without data collected specifically from clinical neuropsychologists, we would

have no way of knowing that the survey data released by APA pertaining to
psychologists is either grossly erroneous or is grossly irrelevant to clinical neuropsychologists.
For example, Jacobsen (2009) presented data from the APA Center for
Workforce Studies that reported the 2006 median annual income of full time PhD
psychologists was $70,000, a figure that was far below the 2005 data for
neuropsychologists. Moreover, in April 2010 APA's monthly publication
for members, Monitor, (downloaded from http://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/04/
salaries.aspx October 29, 2010), the description of median salaries declining
substantially for APA &#8216;&#8216;across the board'' from 2001 to 2010 is grossly and
inescapably wrong as applied to clinical neuropsychology's thousands of practitioners,
in light of 2005 and 2010 data specifically relevant to clinical neuropsychology.
Moreover, an APA bar graph showing the median income of &#8216;&#8216;direct health
service providers'' to be well under $60,000 makes no sense for any specialty of
psychology when one considers the simple fact that even starting salaries have been
higher than this for a number of years. Finally, although there are very few specialties
of psychology that have undertaken extensive self-analysis via surveys, since 2002
the Society for Industrial Organizational Psychology has performed such surveys.
As most recently reported, based on 2009 data Khanna and Medsker (2010, p. 18)
stated, &#8216;&#8216;Comparing weighted medians, we found that primary income for those with
doctorates increased for each year in which it has been measured since 2002.'' In 2005
and 2006 the median incomes were in the $90,000s and in 2008 and 2009 the median
incomes were over $100,000. Such data from another psychology specialty add to the
appearance that APA's data are erroneous. There may be no better example
regarding reasons that specialties gather their own professional practice and income
data. We continue to believe that a 5-year interval survey can provide useful​

information to specialists in clinical neuropsychology.

I acknowledge I'm only addressing speciality areas of psychology (neuro, forensic, & I/O), which are admittedly some of the most lucrative areas, but it is worth noting that not everyone in the field is in dire straits. While I don't want people to flood into these areas just because of money, it is important to know that clinicians can make a good living within the field.