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kaiser california

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by GaseousClay, Oct 18, 2015.

  1. Eyefixer

    Eyefixer 10+ Year Member

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    Nov 26, 2007
    So Cal is known as more physician friendly Kaiser, but pays less. On average, Nor Cal pays more but you work more hours. For you guys also, I think there is more CRNA supervision in Nor Cal. So, yeah, you decide :).
     
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  3. deltamed

    deltamed Member 10+ Year Member

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    More info regarding kaiser in denver to add to above comparisons between socal and ncal-

    Physicians are w2 employees so no good tax advantaged retirement plans that come from k1

    Pension is 50% of salary for life after 25-30 years service (depending on starting age). Fund was well managed although who knows in the future.

    Salary is based on 50% median mgma and agma surveys.

    Workload is pretty cush compared w private.

    Staff is unionized so control is minimal.
     
  4. GassmanMD

    GassmanMD ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    Just digging this up so I can give this comment by SaltyDog some mad props. This has come true and I am considering walking. I have some serious doubts and trepidations about walking though. Has anything changed in the regional market in regards to buy outs? Are groups still pretty secure? I may have a 2 yr partnership track offer one week from now with a very fair group in a better location. My biggest fear is leaving the safe asylum of Kaiser and being left in the dust if the group sells before making partner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
    dchz likes this.
  5. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    Just got word they are starting out 420k for 40 hours a week for generalists at denver kaiser. thats well over 150k more than so cal kaiser. Forget california go colorado
     
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  6. fakin' the funk

    fakin' the funk ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    A bit of more up-to-date comments on Kaiser vs PP jobs.

    Kaiser in NorCal (TPMG) may or may not advertise jobs, certainly not in the more desirable areas (inner Bay Area, e.g.) and in more desirable specialties. As you said, this is how it's done for the desirable PP groups, but not so much for the undesirable ones.

    The Kaiser package is very competitive to what is available in PP. Depending on the PP group and individual preference for more work / more pay or more work / more vacation, either might be better for the individual. Clearly the work structure can be hugely different: MD-only, blended-unit eat-what-you-kill PP vs CRNA supervision +/- solo practice. Separate topic though.

    Kaiser is very much able to cherry pick rockstars out of residency/fellowship.
     
  7. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    wow just heard some disturbing news about this place...is it true base salary is second lowest only to pediatricians?? i think earning potential is higher because of overtime but every other department earns more than anesthesia there including family practice and IM. If so Kaiser so. cal is pretty sad...
     
  8. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    While I don’t have any direct knowledge, this isn’t what some of my friends have run into and one works there now - he does very well. No clue what the breakdown is for base salary vs bonus vs incentives.
     
  9. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    does he work at nor cal kaiser or so cal? These are 2 very distinct organizations with different pay structures. So cal kaiser pays very low if you work 40-45 hours. The way he can do "very well" is if he works upwards of 50-60 hours/week. The benefits are great tho but the way i see if they are not worth the pay cut. PP can earn much more and makes up for the benefits
     
  10. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Southern Cali. His experience is very different from what you are saying, but that’s about all I can say.
     
  11. lakersbaby

    lakersbaby 10+ Year Member

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    i'd stay away from so cal kaiser. they favor CRNAs and physicians are now on an hourly basis so essentially clock in and out everyday to get paid.
     
  12. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

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    Not sure where you got that info, but I’d classify it under fake news.
     
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  13. bellevueperson

    bellevueperson ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    There is a fair amount of CRNA supervision, but they are in no way "favored" since SCPMG (the SoCal physician medical group) is led by physicians. Pay for 50-odd hours weekly starts in the ballpark of low- to mid-300s with paid benefits and goes up yearly to the 400s within a few years. Not as good as Denver but still pretty good for the area.
     
  14. lakersbaby

    lakersbaby 10+ Year Member

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    Really? Ask someone you know there if they are pretty much punching in and out. They are paid per hour and can not leave a minute early or are docked pay.
     
  15. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Again... not at all what I have been told by people who work there. What's with the vendetta with a few posters against this place?
     
  16. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    According to credible source this is all new stuff and there is a lot of malcontent here. The hourly thing is real although don’t think as stringent as made seem
     
  17. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    All the other nurses in the institution clock in and out but not the CRNAs. They also can leave early and get paid off the clock which is ludicrous. Physicians on the other hand must stay and log in and out or forfeit pay. The CRNAs also get the strength of the nurses union on top of that. So to me that seems like they are favored.
     
  18. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Man, is someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to work for Kaiser? If you don’t like them by all means don’t join...
     
  19. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    i don't work there but keep hearing its the best and hardest gig in so cal to get. just informing the masses. is there not a single person from so cal kaiser here to confirm/deny?
     
  20. rakotomazoto

    rakotomazoto ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    My perspective is limited (CA-3 currently in Los Angeles), but I can say that the past few years, multiple solid residents including chiefs have joined So Cal Kaiser. I didn't interview there because by the time I went to a Kaiser mixer event for residents, I already had 3 separate PP job offers and went that route instead. I found on my recent job search that Kaiser had pros and cons based on your situation (benefits, retirement, work-life balance, etc) but was better than some other jobs, worse than some other jobs, based on the offers I received.

    The job I went with has significantly better terms and was much more exclusive or "hard to get" than Kaiser, which has multiple mixer events which are open invitation to recruit residents from all subspecialties to join. My future job came directly from an alumni network connection.

    Hopefully, some people who went the So Cal Kaiser route can give a more specific update on the situation there.
     
  21. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

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    That is probably the best/fairest assessment so far. It should be noted that even within Kaiser SoCal, the different regions will be different: Kaiser SD is distinct from Kaiser OC is distinct from Kaiser LA is distinct from Kaiser IE. I know a few people at SD, and I also know a few that were there and left. Just how good a gig you think it is depends on your reference point. If you're used to AMC's or shady PP's, then Kaiser probably seems like Eden. Compared to the premier PP groups around though, it's pretty meh. It takes a certain type of person to be happy there. It's absolutely a factory worker clock in/clock out mentality where you are worker bee with minimal if any say as to how things are run. You have to be OK with that. The compensation package isn't so incredible in my mind. Starting salary (for a 40hr wk) is well under 300K. Yes, there's base retirement and healthcare on top of that, but if you want to max out that retirement package everybody talks about, then a significant chunk comes out of your salary. If you want to hit >400K, then be prepared to put in a lot of overtime approaching a 60hr week. Come to my shop and work that hard and you'll blow that Kaiser pay outta the water. You have to accumulate vacation time like any other corporate job. And, the "partner track" is much longer than most PP's.

    I think the "competitiveness" is a little misleading as well. They'll say "we got 200 applicants for 1 position." That's because it's an open casting call, and people from all over send in their CV's. Compare that to that nice PP's in town who only interviewed 3 people, but those 3 were handpicked from the beginning. The other 197 dudes never even had a chance to get their foot in the door.

    With Kaiser SD, there was a long stretch where they wouldn't straight up hire anyone - anyone new was forced into a per diem only role for an indeterminate amount of time(at 120$/hr) before a real job was ever offered. On top of that, they would only hire fellowship trained docs even if they had no need for that skillset and often didn't even do those types of cases. Then they realized they were paying extra fellowship bonus dollars to people for no reason, and they were opening a new hospital to boot. Suddenly it got pretty damn easy to land a gig there.

    Kaiser SD is also in a sloooooow phase out of many of their CRNA's. They pay differential is so small between the docs and CRNA's, that it just doesn't make much financial sense for them to pay 2 people to cover a room. As the senior CRNA's retire, they are being replaced with docs, not new nurses.
     
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  22. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    you're definitely spot on with the competitiveness thing. they touted that 200 applications per spot to me when i interviewed with them a while back.
     
  23. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

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    If you interviewed with them, then you should have all the details/numbers. What exactly are you asking the rest of us for?
     
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  24. GaseousClay

    GaseousClay :) 2+ Year Member

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    im saying things have changed drastically in just one year. you can ask your colleagues at whichever kaiser they are at. no more out of me regarding this just informing that this isnt a sweet a gig as it once was, money aside. According to my buddy at SD Kaiser theyve hired at least 6-8 CRNAs in the past year, so definitely not phasing out anything.
     
  25. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

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    Good to know. That's a departure from what was going on there just a year a two ago as you said. Change in management perhaps? Also sheds a little light on the "security" aspect people always like to brag about with Kaiser.
     
  26. timgasman

    timgasman

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    They r better than most groups from what I hear but not much better
     

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