KCU-COM vs. PHSU

[StudentDoctor54321]

Personal: I am a Florida resident. I have family in Kansas and Puerto Rico. I am not sure which school to enter, so I gather some information below and appreciate your thoughts.

Professional/Academic: I am an untraditional student and have work experience as well as research publications. I plan to take USMLE in either medical school. I am not sure what specialty I want to go into. From what I gather, I can match into primary care fields without additional concerns between the two options. However, I would like to work in Florida and perhaps in a competitive specialty.

Kansas City University College of College of Osteopathic Medicine / DO Program / COCA Accreditation:
Pro

• Tuition: ~ $50, 000
• Lifestyle: KCU-COM accepted me to their Kansas City campus. Their class size is 250+, and I do not mind big or smaller groups. Compared to Puerto Rico, the move to Kansas seems safer and easier to adjust.
• Historic Data: KCU COM 2019-2021 COMLEX was Level 1 score was above average and USMLE Step 1 score was at average. They also provide clear data around their Match rate and Match locations which include Florida locations: https://cdn.agilitycms.com/kansas-city-university/Attachments/residency/Match2020.pdf

Con

• Additional exams: I did not do well on the MCAT. I would be required to take another standardized exam (COMLEX). The concept of muscle manipulation is a neutral topic to me as well.
• Curriculum: Pass/fail pre-clinical years. Exams primarily focus on COMLEX and students need to integrate USMLE materials on their own time.
• Clerkship Curriculum: Students may not have time for away/elective rotations which may impact specializations for Match Day.
• Standardized Test Preparation: Dedicated time available to take both COMLEX/USMLE. 6-week total for both.

Ponce Health Sciences University / MD Program / LCME ACCME Accreditation:
Pro

• Curriculum: Pass/fail pre-clinical years. For exams, some professors use NBME questions and others create their own set of questions. Their classrooms are flipped, and classes are pre-recorded in English. Teachers may present in English or Spanish.
• Standardized Test Preparation: Dedicated time available.

Con

• Tuition: ~ $60, 000
• Lifestyle: Class size ~ 100 students. While Puerto Rico is a U.S. state, I was concerned about transportation and commute safety in Puerto Rico. Current students assured me that this is not a problem. However, natural disasters are more prevalent here than in Kansas.
• Language Barrier: I speak intermediate Spanish but cannot read or write. This may be a hurdle as classes/clerkship can be in Spanish with examinations in English.
• Match Rates: While the retention rate for 2019-2020 was 99%, PHSU Match rates (with SOAP) over the last 4 years is 89%.
• Historic Data: I could not find their USMLE numeric score or match locations as well. PHSU 2019-2020 retention rate was at 99%, step 1 pass rate over 4 years at 87%, and Match with soap over 4 years at 89% (page 13-15): https://www.psm.edu/doc/Consumer Information and Student Achienvment Guide 2020-2021.pdf

Accreditation And Discrimination: I am fortunate for both schools’ acceptances but realize how the population may look at these well-trained doctors. PHSU constantly has to defend their school. The school is often confused as a Caribbean medical school, current students state their LCME accreditation in their signature, and one educational dean said to me that he would throw away a PHSU application over a KCU-COM student. I also reference an SDN thread about PHSU vs. DO (ended up at DO) in 2017 to help provide insight (Ponce or DO?). Also, I do believe the DO versus MD stigma still exists. At PHSU, people would at least have to look into or ask about my credentials before making a rash judgment.

Summary: I do not have a deciding factor in choosing between KCU-COM vs. PHSU. Any and all advice is appreciated. Hope this thread provides some insight for future applicants as well.

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[anon0114]

I am in the same situation as you when it comes to choosing between D.O and Puerto Rico. Both have their pros and cons, but I do have to point out one thing about PR. Some cons are:
1. Their match rate is shockingly bad. There's no other way to describe it. 77% pre-soap for an MD is just horrible.
2. They are not matching people into competitive specialties like Opth, Uro, Ortho, Neuro Surg, Anes
3. They seem like a disorganized program.
4. I've lived in PR, it's fun. But also you lose nice commodities that you might be accustomed to in the US.
5. PHSU doesn't release where they match their students.

Going to PHSU has its pros as well though. Such as you are an MD from an LCME accredited school. Some residency programs still don't take DO applicants so that is something to be aware of. Also, after you match into residency no one really cares about where you went to med school, they just see the MD. Other pros about PHSU is not taking the COMLEX and not taking OMM courses during your medical school years, aka more free time for you to focus on other things. In addition, PHSU is expanding nationally. They are building a new 72M building in PHSU as well as establishing more rotation sites for students, for example, the Ashford in San Juan. PHSU is also opening a new med school in St. Louis 2022.

 

[StudentDoctor54321]

I am in the same situation as you when it comes to choosing between D.O and Puerto Rico. Both have their pros and cons, but I do have to point out one thing about PR. Some cons are:
1. Their match rate is shockingly bad. There's no other way to describe it. 77% pre-soap for an MD is just horrible.
2. They are not matching people into competitive specialties like Opth, Uro, Ortho, Neuro Surg, Anes
3. They seem like a disorganized program.
4. I've lived in PR, it's fun. But also you lose nice commodities that you might be accustomed to in the US.
5. PHSU doesn't release where they match their students.

Going to PHSU has its pros as well though. Such as you are an MD from an LCME accredited school. Some residency programs still don't take DO applicants so that is something to be aware of. Also, after you match into residency no one really cares about where you went to med school, they just see the MD. Other pros about PHSU is not taking the COMLEX and not taking OMM courses during your medical school years, aka more free time for you to focus on other things. In addition, PHSU is expanding nationally. They are building a new 72M building in PHSU as well as establishing more rotation sites for students, for example, the Ashford in San Juan. PHSU is also opening a new med school in St. Louis 2022.

Thanks for the insight. Nice to hear from another applicant in the same situation.

I don’t mind losing commodities in the US. But do you think PHSU commodities could affect clerkship rotations (like equipment) and we might not have the same training as the US?

I’ve heard the match process is now a merged platform for MD/DO so theoretically this should help DO applicants have a better chance for residency programs?

I also didn’t realize how drastic the 2020 match rate is until you mentioned it. Although KCU does have 2-3 times larger of a class compared to PHSU ~ 100 class size. I want to still keep in mind competitive specialties so if PHSU is not matching anyone, would the “MD” after our name be worth pursuing at PHSU.

• Ophthalmology - PHSU 0 KCU 2
• Urology - PHSU 0 KCU 1
• Orthopedic Surgery - PHSU 0 KCU 4
• Neurology - PHSU 3 KCU 2
• Anesthesiology - PHSU 0 KCU 17

 

[anon0114]

Thanks for the insight. Nice to hear from another applicant in the same situation.

I don’t mind losing commodities in the US. But do you think PHSU commodities could affect clerkship rotations (like equipment) and we might not have the same training as the US?

I’ve heard the match process is now a merged platform for MD/DO so theoretically this should help DO applicants have a better chance for residency programs?

I also didn’t realize how drastic the 2020 match rate is until you mentioned it. Although KCU does have 2-3 times larger of a class compared to PHSU ~ 100 class size. I want to still keep in mind competitive specialties so if PHSU is not matching anyone, would the “MD” after our name be worth pursuing at PHSU.

• Ophthalmology - PHSU 0 KCU 2
• Urology - PHSU 0 KCU 1
• Orthopedic Surgery - PHSU 0 KCU 4
• Neurology - PHSU 3 KCU 2
• Anesthesiology - PHSU 0 KCU 17

1. No, I think the training in PR rotations could be indeed better. From what I've heard, the rotation training is very good because it is more hands on. Ponce has a lot of rotation options in good hospitals, both big and small from what I've heard.
2. Regardless of the MD/DO merge, MD's will always look favorable.
3. I believe that if you are top around the top of your class, are very fluent in English and do your elective rotations in the US you can have a better match outcome vs DO. But that is just my guess and it is a gamble on yourself.

 

[StudentDoctor54321]

1. No, I think the training in PR rotations could be indeed better. From what I've heard, the rotation training is very good because it is more hands on. Ponce has a lot of rotation options in good hospitals, both big and small from what I've heard.
2. Regardless of the MD/DO merge, MD's will always look favorable.
3. I believe that if you are top around the top of your class, are very fluent in English and do your elective rotations in the US you can have a better match outcome vs DO. But that is just my guess and it is a gamble on yourself.

What are some factors keeping you from deciding on PHSU vs. your accepted DO medical programs?

 

[NicMouse64]

What are some factors keeping you from deciding on PHSU vs. your accepted DO medical programs?

I'd highly recommend going to the DO school at this point unless you are 100% fluent in both languages. I can't imagine doing first 2 years of medical school in a language I am not super comfortable in. Ultimately I got accepted to a different MD school but I really did struggle through deciding before I got in on the waitlist elsewhere.

 

[StudentDoctor54321]

I'd highly recommend going to the DO school at this point unless you are 100% fluent in both languages. I can't imagine doing first 2 years of medical school in a language I am not super comfortable in. Ultimately I got accepted to a different MD school but I really did struggle through deciding before I got in on the waitlist elsewhere.

I'm not fluent...

I can speak Spanish and worked with Hispanic populations for a few months but am concerned about Spanish conversations in PHSU class presentation/clerkship years, especially when medical terminology becomes more used.

However, instead of struggling to become fluent in Spanish, in the DO program I may have to take time to study for additional information like MMI/COMLEX. It also comes with the perception @anon0114 stated of MD/DO that MD even from Puerto Rico may look favorable?

 

[NicMouse64]

I'm not fluent...

I can speak Spanish and worked with Hispanic populations for a few months but am concerned about Spanish conversations in PHSU class presentation/clerkship years, especially when medical terminology becomes more used.

However, instead of struggling to become fluent in Spanish, in the DO program I may have to take time to study for additional information like MMI/COMLEX. It also comes with the perception @anon0114 stated of MD/DO that MD even from Puerto Rico may look favorable?

It's basically a wash at this point. Also if you visit the campus it's run down and there is water leaking from the ceiling. I would much rather live in KC than Ponce personally. Just my opinion and 2c as someone who interviewed there in person. If you arent fluent in spanish 100% I highly recommend KCU.

 

[Honestly]

Just so you know the exams and lectures are in English. However they can present the information in both languages. Something to consider is that the boards are in English and majority of the students who attend PR schools Spanish isn’t their first language which can lead to poor performance and a poor match list. Also the class size for Ponce is about ~160 students. I’m not sure if you know yet but Ponce is considered for-profit as well.

 

[StudentDoctor54321]

Just so you know the exams and lectures are in English. However they can present the information in both languages. Something to consider is that the boards are in English and majority of the students who attend PR schools Spanish isn’t their first language which can lead to poor performance and a poor match list. Also the class size for Ponce is about ~160 students. I’m not sure if you know yet but Ponce is considered for-profit as well.

Just to clarify the bold sentence - So not being fluent in Spanish will have a disadvantage?

 

[Honestly]

Just to clarify the bold sentence - So not being fluent in Spanish will have a disadvantage

That’s tough to say since I haven’t begun. I wouldn’t have applied to PR schools if they give the exams in Spanish etc. Quick question would you pick ponce over Kansas quickly if Spanish wasn’t a requirement ?

 

[wysdoc]

@StudentDoctor54321
In your case I think the language fluency might be an added stress, because more of the lectures & conversations than you might think will be in Spanish, while the tests will be in English.
How did you feel during your in-Spanish interview at Ponce? Could you keep up?

 

[StudentDoctor54321]

That’s tough to say since I haven’t begun. I wouldn’t have applied to PR schools if they give the exams in Spanish etc. Quick question would you pick ponce over Kansas quickly if Spanish wasn’t a requirement ?

I would lean more towards Ponce if Spanish was not a requirement/used as frequently in clinical settings. I want to improve my fluency in the language but am unsure of taking on the endeavor as a medical student.

 

[StudentDoctor54321]

@StudentDoctor54321
In your case I think the language fluency might be an added stress, because more of the lectures & conversations than you might think will be in Spanish, while the tests will be in English.
How did you feel during your in-Spanish interview at Ponce? Could you keep up?

I kept up really well because it was half English and Spanish. Although I practice my application and rehearsed typical questions in Spanish for a solid week. I found out that each cohort is getting more English natives and professors, at the beginning of the class, will ask if students prefer English or Spanish and will repeat lectures in both languages. So, it may be clerkship years that bilingual fluency will be stressful because patients will only speak Spanish.

 

[anon0114]

What are some factors keeping you from deciding on PHSU vs. your accepted DO medical programs?

I was born and raised in PR, I am completely fluent in Spanish. I went to HS and undergrad in the US.

Spanish isn't whats holding me back, its more the match list/rates. But like someone said above there could be many reasons for the match rate for example. My top guesses are language barrier in some students and PR students tend to not want to do family medicine, whereas in DO it is encouraged.

I am accepted into ARCOM and WCUCOM, leaning more towards WCUCOM. Deposite put on both schools AND PR. I am still waiting on LECOM-B and VCOM Auburn, which I prefer. I am still undecided between PR and the DO schools as I am still doing my own research. I like seeing what other people have to say.

 

[anon0114]

I also think being fluent in English is already a leg up on most students from PHSU, so you might be in better class standing at the end.

But to echo on what @NicMouse64 said, the facilities are run down. They are not that good compared to US mainland.

 

[KassieKnox]

Thanks for the insight. Nice to hear from another applicant in the same situation.

I don’t mind losing commodities in the US. But do you think PHSU commodities could affect clerkship rotations (like equipment) and we might not have the same training as the US?

I’ve heard the match process is now a merged platform for MD/DO so theoretically this should help DO applicants have a better chance for residency programs?

I also didn’t realize how drastic the 2020 match rate is until you mentioned it. Although KCU does have 2-3 times larger of a class compared to PHSU ~ 100 class size. I want to still keep in mind competitive specialties so if PHSU is not matching anyone, would the “MD” after our name be worth pursuing at PHSU.

• Ophthalmology - PHSU 0 KCU 2
• Urology - PHSU 0 KCU 1
• Orthopedic Surgery - PHSU 0 KCU 4
• Neurology - PHSU 3 KCU 2
• Anesthesiology - PHSU 0 KCU 17

I love this analysis because everyone says MD>DO until residency apps. I mean, it's not like you'll get paid more just because you're an MD rather than a DO in the same specialty. Plus tuition is cheaper at KCU, so I'll vote KCU but narrowly.

On a related note, the MedPeds Program Director at Tulane, Dr. Dennar, is suing them for discrimination, including for use of a tool called ATLAS, which ranked HBCUs on par with international schools in a way that applicants from these schools would not be considered competitive even with exceptional scores. Hearing that these things are still going on, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the match results from Ponce are a result of that type of discrimination, despite being MD.

 

[medstudent001]

Hey I was accepted to KCU (my top DO school) and others DO schools as well, I was also lucky enough to get accepted to all 3 Puerto Rico MD schools. I ended up choosing San Juan Bautista in Caguas, PR because since I am Hispanic and speak fluent Spanish and I don’t really like cold weather, I decided to go to PR. Besides there is the fact that SJB is cheaper, close to San Juan, cost of living is really cheap, all their exams are done by the NBME company, not the schools, research is mandatory in their program, all alumni go to residency with a publication or two. I honestly preferred the MD tittle after my name compared to DO because in the Hispanic community (which is the one I plan to work with) they are not familiarized with the DO concept. Also the fact that I don’t have to take the COMLEX is a big plus, so I can focus on my class. At the end, it’s up to you, you can be an amazing doctor in both schools, depends on your effort and commitment.

 

[NicMouse64]

Hey I was accepted to KCU (my top DO school) and others DO schools as well, I was also lucky enough to get accepted to all 3 Puerto Rico MD schools. I ended up choosing San Juan Bautista in Caguas, PR because since I am Hispanic and speak fluent Spanish and I don’t really like cold weather, I decided to go to PR. Besides there is the fact that SJB is cheaper, close to San Juan, cost of living is really cheap, all their exams are done by the NBME company, not the schools, research is mandatory in their program, all alumni go to residency with a publication or two. I honestly preferred the MD tittle after my name compared to DO because in the Hispanic community (which is the one I plan to work with) they are not familiarized with the DO concept. Also the fact that I don’t have to take the COMLEX is a big plus, so I can focus on my class. At the end, it’s up to you, you can be an amazing doctor in both schools, depends on your effort and commitment.

The OP was not to put down the PR schools. I think if you are from PR or have ties to the island it makes sense to attend there. If you don't I imagine the adjustment period could be difficult especially if Spanish is not your native language.

 

[medstudent001]

The OP was not to put down the PR schools. I think if you are from PR or have ties to the island it makes sense to attend there. If you don't I imagine the adjustment period could be difficult especially if Spanish is not your native language.

I agree, I am not from the island, I am from Florida, so the weather is similar, but you should definitely reconsider if you don’t speak Spanish fluently, however in my upcoming class there are 3 Americans who took Spanish classes and I researched and in all classes there are many of them here in PR. I think it depends on the student mostly, keep in mind that many Puerto Rican’s don’t participate in the match process because they just want to stay in the island as general practitioner, which is not a choice in the US

 

[Dr. Liv]

Between KCU and PHSU, I would easily choose KCU. KCU is a great school, great faculty and facilities, opportunities for excellent clinical experience, tuition cost is good for a private school, great locations (nice people, lower cost of living, access to many commodities, etc.), diverse student body, etc. At KCU, you would have the opportunity to rotate at highly ranked hospitals such as KUMC. PHSU is more expensive, moving to PR is a process (apt, car, not as many commodities available here, driving is challenging, other adjustments), many classes online, must have good communication in Spanish, program/ faculty will not be as strong as KCU. Match rate not as good. PR schools require 3rd year clinical rotations to be in PR and you would have to apply for elective rotations in the states for the 4th year. As for SJB or UCC, I would highly consider those depending on Spanish skills, desired specialty, and perhaps where you would like to practice as a physician. Better clinical opportunities, cheaper tuition, and high match rates are enough reasons to choose a DO school over PHSU.

Background: I am at a different medical school in Puerto Rico. I interviewed for KCU, PHSU, SJB, and UCC. I am fluent in Spanish and am interested in specialties in which OMM would not be useful.

 

[The Last Ankibender]

If you were accepted in another school in PR,RCM, SJB or UCC go there.
If PHSU was the only one don’t. I asked for their match rate for years and they never delivered. I got friends PHSU and they tell me many of their class as instructors are unmatched MS4 that stayed to apply next year to the match. I think that’s not a good sign.