KCU vs DMU

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AlmondCroissant

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Hi all! I've been lucky to be blessed with acceptances to both DMU and KCU. I've been stuck between both schools for a month now and can't decide. What would you recommend?

I like KCU because the city location will be more similar to what I'm used to. Its curriculum works and achieves great board scores, although I am concerned about the overkill that I keep seeing people associate it to on this forum.

DMU seems to also achieve great results with less stress involved. However, it seems that they focus more on OMM, which is not preferable.

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I'm in a similar boat. Really unsure about the testing schedule for DMU (2-3 tests a week).


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Hm, interesting. Not to dismiss your points, but most of the students I spoke to at KCU seemed to think the curriculum prepped them really well for boards? That seems to be one of the strengths of the program..at least from most of the people I spoke to.

Again, not to dismiss you, but aren't you only in your first semester?
 
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Okay cool, thanks for sharing your perspective! It's good to hear both sides of things-- I guess on the interview day, they are obviously presenting you with students who are going to say positive things about the school.

Can you give an example of what you mean by blatantly wrong? Like....wrong facts?
 
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Hi all! I've been lucky to be blessed with acceptances to both DMU and KCU. I've been stuck between both schools for a month now and can't decide. What would you recommend?

I like KCU because the city location will be more similar to what I'm used to. Its curriculum works and achieves great board scores, although I am concerned about the overkill that I keep seeing people associate it to on this forum.

DMU seems to also achieve great results with less stress involved. However, it seems that they focus more on OMM, which is not preferable.
I'm an M1 at DMU....the environment is awesome and they actually are pretty laid back overall about OMM. Like you have to know your stuff and the professors are passionate about OMM but they aren't overly hardcore
 
I'm an M1 at DMU....the environment is awesome and they actually are pretty laid back overall about OMM. Like you have to know your stuff and the professors are passionate about OMM but they aren't overly hardcore

Would you say would be the pros and cons of your school?
 
The curriculum doesn't prepare that well for USMLE from what I've heard from several third and fourth year students

Interesting, the students from your school I’ve talked to said the exact opposite.

Well, a physiology renal professor has said numerous times that the macula densa releases ADH. I can't imagine how terrible it must be at other DO schools. Summary: don't expect any DO school to be "good for Step 1".

Lol that’s pretty bad.
 
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I think there is a mixed bag due to differences in peoples' goals for the Step 1.

Honestly though scoring well is completely on you. I’ve heard similar complaints about my friend’s MD schools, it isn’t a phenomena relegated to DO schools.
 
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[Q
Would you say would be the pros and cons of your school?
PROS:
- environment is awesome, not cutthroat at all, everyone shares materials and the administration seems to be very receptive to our concerns. For example next semester we talked to them about concerns for certain classes and they made changes.
- Very nice facilities, awesome gym and intramurals are a fun break
- Well known in the midwest (if that's where you want to practice)
- Great board scores (both USMLE and COMLEX), even though they don't post USMLE averages to the public word gets around and were always decently above the average overall score for a school (MD or DO)
- 100% residency placement for the last 5 years or something like that
- professors really care about teaching
- a couple mandatory classes but not many, and OMM isn't too much time during your week

CONS:
- has some research available and a research office with some on site stuff, but is smaller than I would hope. They do help you as much as they can to find projects if you show interest though
- since its a smaller city, less in-town rotation slots
- talking about moving to P/F, but right now still conventional grading with a +/- system (even though grades don't matter that much its frustrating at times, I missed an A by 0.5 points in anatomy but settled with an A-)
-exam schedules can be a lot some weeks but overall not terrible once you get in a groove

I love it and wouldn't change my school choice at all.
 
@AlteredScale @Stagg737 If possible, could you guys give your input on this?
NSU vs KCU KC campus (I haven't visited)

See what I wrote in the above post. The goal of second year is not necessarily to have you know every nook and cranny about subtypes of hodgkins lymphoma, the goal is to prime you for the amount of work you will need to put in doing your 2 months of dedicated as well as on clinic. You're learning to learn and to read, assimilate, and apply a HUGE amount of knowledge. Now the downside of this that you do burn a TON of time reading and memorizing minutiae which could have been time to hone in your test taking skills and do more review of everything vs just path. With this feedback, there is a proposal to adjust the required reading for path. If the second year was "bad" then I would assume that all that time burned would effect scores for Step negatively (which is not the case)

KCU has been fortunate to have some of the highest board amongst DO schools: Step 1, Level 1, Step 2 CK. Despite this, a red flag was noted in that many of the students are book smart but lack a lot of the clinical skills going into rotations, this was reaffirmed by some results regarding the percentage of students failing the Level 2 PE (physical exam, clinical assessment). OMM rotation isn't required for some clinical sites. But it is now required that everyone pass the OMM/OPP COMAT which is a shelf exam for OMM. So you can't just punt OMM during third year since you need to pass this shelf exam eventually.

In terms of the efficacy of the KCU curriculum, the numbers speak for themelseves. Though there's a lot of crapping on the curriculum going on, I've personally seen a chunk of my class score above the national Step 1 mean amongst MD schools. So idk what the issue is really. Also, it's not surprising that you'd see the KCU curriculum while attending a top 20 MD school like BUSM to be inferior in terms of strength, number, and overall expertise of faculty, compared to a much smaller DO school like KCU. I'm going to assume that faculty at BUSM or Harvard do also make mistakes in what they say or teach sometimes, students email and ask for correction and everyone moves on. If the faculty did in fact continue to teach something wrong and rejected corrections from students, I would be upset as well but highly doubt that is the case.

Take everyones opinion of the KCU curriculum on here with a grain of salt. There's a love-hate relationship with it so you're going to go a crazy range of evaluations of it. Just be prepared to work hard if you come here.

--

To keep this post on topic: I've seen so many KCU vs DMU threads it makes my head spin. @SynapticDoctah may have better insight but from what I've read they are pretty similar with KCU having the advantage if you want to go out and enjoy a night life I guess. Also, supposedly DMU students in third year may have to relocate halfway through but that's just a rumor on my end don't know if that's true. KCU students don't have to do that, BUT you may end up in middle of nowhere MO or have to move all the way to florida for rotations which is really, really, inconvenient and expensive. They really need to find a way to keep all their students in the city or state(s) of MO and KS.
 
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NSU vs KCU KC campus (I haven't visited)

See what I wrote in the above post. The goal of second year is not necessarily to have you know every nook and cranny about subtypes of hodgkins lymphoma, the goal is to prime you for the amount of work you will need to put in doing your 2 months of dedicated as well as on clinic. You're learning to learn and to read, assimilate, and apply a HUGE amount of knowledge. Now the downside of this that you do burn a TON of time reading and memorizing minutiae which could have been time to hone in your test taking skills and do more review of everything vs just path. With this feedback, there is a proposal to adjust the required reading for path. If the second year was "bad" then I would assume that all that time burned would effect scores for Step negatively (which is not the case)

KCU has been fortunate to have some of the highest board amongst DO schools: Step 1, Level 1, Step 2 CK. Despite this, a red flag was noted in that many of the students are book smart but lack a lot of the clinical skills going into rotations, this was reaffirmed by some results regarding the percentage of students failing the Level 2 PE (physical exam, clinical assessment). OMM rotation isn't required for some clinical sites. But it is now required that everyone pass the OMM/OPP COMAT which is a shelf exam for OMM. So you can't just punt OMM during third year since you need to pass this shelf exam eventually.

In terms of the efficacy of the KCU curriculum, the numbers speak for themelseves. Though there's a lot of crapping on the curriculum going on, I've personally seen a chunk of my class score above the national Step 1 mean amongst MD schools. So idk what the issue is really. Also, it's not surprising that you'd see the KCU curriculum while attending a top 20 MD school like BUSM to be inferior in terms of strength, number, and overall expertise of faculty, compared to a much smaller DO school like KCU. I'm going to assume that faculty at BUSM or Harvard do also make mistakes in what they say or teach sometimes, students email and ask for correction and everyone moves on. If the faculty did in fact continue to teach something wrong and rejected corrections from students, I would be upset as well but highly doubt that is the case.

Take everyones opinion of the KCU curriculum on here with a grain of salt. There's a love-hate relationship with it so you're going to go a crazy range of evaluations of it. Just be prepared to work hard if you come here.

--

To keep this post on topic: I've seen so many KCU vs DMU threads it makes my head spin. @SynapticDoctah may have better insight but from what I've read they are pretty similar with KCU having the advantage if you want to go out and enjoy a night life I guess. Also, supposedly DMU students in third year may have to relocate halfway through but that's just a rumor on my end don't know if that's true. KCU students don't have to do that, BUT you may end up in middle of nowhere MO or have to move all the way to florida for rotations which is really, really, inconvenient and expensive. They really need to find a way to keep all their students in the city or state(s) of MO and KS.
Thanks for making this super detailed. Your points are valid and I think it's time we all focus less on individual comments from one or two students and focus on the overall big picture, which is good board scores and, as even the poster who complained about the lack of Step 1 prep said, the fact that KCU is probably one of the "better" DO schools.
 
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NSU vs KCU KC campus (I haven't visited)

See what I wrote in the above post. The goal of second year is not necessarily to have you know every nook and cranny about subtypes of hodgkins lymphoma, the goal is to prime you for the amount of work you will need to put in doing your 2 months of dedicated as well as on clinic. You're learning to learn and to read, assimilate, and apply a HUGE amount of knowledge. Now the downside of this that you do burn a TON of time reading and memorizing minutiae which could have been time to hone in your test taking skills and do more review of everything vs just path. With this feedback, there is a proposal to adjust the required reading for path. If the second year was "bad" then I would assume that all that time burned would effect scores for Step negatively (which is not the case)

KCU has been fortunate to have some of the highest board amongst DO schools: Step 1, Level 1, Step 2 CK. Despite this, a red flag was noted in that many of the students are book smart but lack a lot of the clinical skills going into rotations, this was reaffirmed by some results regarding the percentage of students failing the Level 2 PE (physical exam, clinical assessment). OMM rotation isn't required for some clinical sites. But it is now required that everyone pass the OMM/OPP COMAT which is a shelf exam for OMM. So you can't just punt OMM during third year since you need to pass this shelf exam eventually.

In terms of the efficacy of the KCU curriculum, the numbers speak for themelseves. Though there's a lot of crapping on the curriculum going on, I've personally seen a chunk of my class score above the national Step 1 mean amongst MD schools. So idk what the issue is really. Also, it's not surprising that you'd see the KCU curriculum while attending a top 20 MD school like BUSM to be inferior in terms of strength, number, and overall expertise of faculty, compared to a much smaller DO school like KCU. I'm going to assume that faculty at BUSM or Harvard do also make mistakes in what they say or teach sometimes, students email and ask for correction and everyone moves on. If the faculty did in fact continue to teach something wrong and rejected corrections from students, I would be upset as well but highly doubt that is the case.

Take everyones opinion of the KCU curriculum on here with a grain of salt. There's a love-hate relationship with it so you're going to go a crazy range of evaluations of it. Just be prepared to work hard if you come here.

--

To keep this post on topic: I've seen so many KCU vs DMU threads it makes my head spin. @SynapticDoctah may have better insight but from what I've read they are pretty similar with KCU having the advantage if you want to go out and enjoy a night life I guess. Also, supposedly DMU students in third year may have to relocate halfway through but that's just a rumor on my end don't know if that's true. KCU students don't have to do that, BUT you may end up in middle of nowhere MO or have to move all the way to florida for rotations which is really, really, inconvenient and expensive. They really need to find a way to keep all their students in the city or state(s) of MO and KS.

That is an amazingly thorough response, thank you for taking the time to write that out. You mention a red flag being the lack of clinical skills going into rotation, but I'm assuming most DO schools have similar issues?
 
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Despite this, a red flag was noted in that many of the students are book smart but lack a lot of the clinical skills going into rotations, this was reaffirmed by some results regarding the percentage of students failing the Level 2 PE (physical exam, clinical assessment). OMM rotation isn't required for some clinical sites. But it is now required that everyone pass the OMM/OPP COMAT which is a shelf exam for OMM. So you can't just punt OMM during third year since you need to pass this shelf exam eventually.

Do you think it's really important to do the OMM rotation in order to pass the shelf? Also, do you know where we can get information about which sites require the OMM rotation?
 
That is an amazingly thorough response, thank you for taking the time to write that out. You mention a red flag being the lack of clinical skills going into rotation, but I'm assuming most DO schools have similar issues?
Many DO schools have the similar issue of variability within their clinical curriculum. However, it appears KCU was at a larger detriment due to the fact that there was so little emphasis on clinical skills in second year as well as a large detachment to the quality of third year that many were failing the PE at the end the year.

Do you think it's really important to do the OMM rotation in order to pass the shelf? Also, do you know where we can get information about which sites require the OMM rotation?

Nah. You can learn most of that stuff on your own without having to do a required OMM rotation.

I'm only aware of CO having a required OMM rotations and am not too sure where you'd get that info because I know thats not online. Try contacting the clinical dept.
 
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Many DO schools have the similar issue of variability within their clinical curriculum. However, it appears KCU was at a larger detriment due to the fact that there was so little emphasis on clinical skills in second year as well as a large detachment to the quality of third year that many were failing the PE at the end the year.



Nah. You can learn most of that stuff on your own without having to do a required OMM rotation.

I'm only aware of CO having a required OMM rotations and am not too sure where you'd get that info because I know thats not online. Try contacting the clinical dept.
Sorry to reply so late fam. What are these "clinical skills" I always see on posts? I am coming in to start at KCU this summer and have only been on SDN since Sept, so I still have no nailed all the lingo.
 
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