Keep 32

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This has all ready been tried by big pharm companies and failed.
S. mutans is only one of many factors in decay, so this probably works as good as fluoride.
 
Even if it works, they'll find out 30 years from now that it's linked to cancer, autism, birth defect, global warming, etc. and then sued out of existence.
 
mixoma said:
This has all ready been tried by big pharm companies and failed.
S. mutans is only one of many factors in decay, so this probably works as good as fluoride.
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As I mentioned in the other thread, S. mutans is by far the greatest initiator of dental carries. Other bacteria take advantage of the decay site's environment once initiated. If you could drastically reduce the prevalence of S. mutans, I have no doubt carries prevalence would drop rapidly.

Daurang said:
Even if it works, they'll find out 30 years from now that it's linked to cancer, autism, birth defect, global warming, etc. and then sued out of existence.
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Just as there are now many artificial sweeteners and many antibiotics for individual pathogens, I'm sure there will be many variants of this treatment in 30 years. In fact, this is already the second I've seen. As I said before, Colgate has a promising treatment in human trials right now.
 
I heard about Keep 32. That's a great product but I understand the need for a proactive approach to my oral health. I'll be sure to voluntarily brush twice a day, floss once a day, and get regular checkups as I know that cavities is a disease with a multifaceted etiology that requires dedicated prevention methods.
- No patient, ever.
 
What I'm worried about is, is that Im a predent and if I should continue being a predent if I'm not going to make any money once I become a dentist. Do you really think that dentistry is gonna be like optometry, like discovering LASIK and putting all the optometrists out of business? Do you think that Keep 32 really works?
 
Did some light digging when I heard about this today. Seems very similar to that mouthwash that was being researched at UCLA recently.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=239737

The initial post seems to have some sound reasoning. Mainly if s mutans was eliminated, other bacteria will take over. Give it a read and see if it calms some of the panic going around. It seems like these types of scares are cyclical and pops up once in a while but never ends up panning out the way they claim.
 
You know what else I heard that stops S. mutans? Fluoridated toothpaste and removing foodstuffs from between your teeth.
 
I just threw up a bit hearing the news about this.
 
Dang man. Don't be so excitable. If you think that a "magic bullet" is going to cure a rampant disease process that already has solutions in place you need to learn a little more about the world. Think back on micro - we're already at pace to RUN OUT of antibiotic solutions for infection. Antibiotic mechanisms as a means to control infection will be dead in a short time (check out the WHO if interested in this subject).

This occured while trying to control the supply and administration of them. Imagine what will happen to highly communicable oral bacteria when people are needlessly treating themselves successfully and unsuccessfully with a medication that exploits S. Mutans some how. We're going to get a MRSA version of S. Mutans. This is why methods like fluoridation, that rely on strengthening the tooth, are more practical. When it comes to bacteria we loose every time.

This is not to say that I'm rooting for disease. Sadly, disease will always occurs - we are mortal being living in a finite universe (little variation of the 2nd thermo law lol). When we are so insecure it makes us seem small. Dentistry is a profession built on more than one bacteria.

Kobe08 said:
I just threw up a bit hearing the news about this.
Click to expand...
 
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yappy said:
Dang man. Don't be so excitable. If you think that a "magic bullet" is going to cure a rampant disease process that already has solutions in place you need to learn a little more about the world. Think back on micro - we're already at pace to RUN OUT of antibiotic solutions for infection. Antibiotic mechanisms as a means to control infection will be dead in a short time (check out the WHO if interested in this subject).

This occured while trying to control the supply and administration of them. Imagine what will happen to highly communicable oral bacteria when people are needlessly treating themselves successfully and unsuccessfully with a medication that exploits S. Mutans some how. We're going to get a MRSA version of S. Mutans. This is why methods like fluoridation, that rely on strengthening the tooth, are more practical. When it comes to bacteria we loose every time.

This is not to say that I'm rooting for disease. Sadly, disease will always occurs - we are mortal being living in a finite universe (little variation of the 2nd thermo law lol). When we are so insecure it makes us seem small. Dentistry is a profession built on more than one bacteria.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to be a permanent or remotely perfect fix in order to dramatically reduce demand. Many bacteria have been held in check for decades as we cycled through new antibiotics. If S. mutans is also held in check for the better part of a generation, it would still change the game entirely. Add to this the fact that dental therapists are in the works for 15 different states and counting, to augment the new schools opening each year & increased enrollment at current schools, basic operative could very realistically be in reduced demand.

If you want to be in this profession, do it because you think you will love the work. The money may or may not be there, but you'll still be happy. 👍
 
DMDWANNABEE said:
It doesn't need to be a permanent or remotely perfect fix in order to dramatically reduce demand. Many bacteria have been held in check for decades as we cycled through new antibiotics. If S. mutans is also held in check for the better part of a generation, it would still change the game entirely. Add to this the fact that dental therapists are in the works for 15 different states and counting, to augment the new schools opening each year & increased enrollment at current schools, basic operative could very realistically be in reduced demand.

If you want to be in this profession, do it because you think you will love the work. The money may or may not be there, but you'll still be happy. 👍
Click to expand...


you are not a dental student. you haven't even attended a single dental class yet and your post shows this lack of knowledge.

the strains of bacteria that are resistant to abx are out pacing the development of new abx.

please point me to one new abx in development that isn't a "me too" drug, that has a totally new MOA.

drug are expensive to develop and no company wants to develop one because they are not going to recoup the cost when bacterial resistance is going to make that drug ineffective.

i dont' see how bacteria "have been held in check" considering we're running out of abx...


back to the topic,

there really isn't anything to worry about till it passes human trials. there are so many drugs that looks so promising. even drugs that pass human trials often gets recalled because the human trial samples are just way too small.

take pioglitazone or TZDs for example. new shiny diabetic medication which reduces insulin resistance in the liver. was a top 10 seller and is now being pulled because it's linked to causing cancer (other tzd caused cve).

and cavity isn't the only reason people visit dentists. people are still going to grind their teeth, chip them, crack them, take meth, etc...

maybe the decrease in demand for dentist means less opening of dental schools. i'm okay with this. rather not have dentistry go the way of pharmacy (which is where i think its starting to become)

also, if you're really afraid for your job, study hard, get top 10%, and go specialize. I think the only time we have to worry is like that other poster said, when they can just regrow a whole teeth from stem cells. then all we'll be doing is extractions and cosmetics.
 
This guy changed his name recently and use to espouse the same rhetoric. He seems to think that most people have alot of other options that dentistry they have not considered or that somehow enjoying dentistry and doing well financially are mutually exclusive.

Wannabee, you've reminded all that dentistry is, and never was, a 100% slam dunk to the upper-middle class. Tell us what job has 100% success and zero risk with all the benefits of being a dentist, please?

None, okay. People will continue to go into dentistry because of the financial incentive and professional autonomy. Many will not love it but they will be thankful they have a good job and make the best of their time outside of their 36-40hr work week.


DMDWANNABEE said:
It doesn't need to be a permanent or remotely perfect fix in order to dramatically reduce demand. Many bacteria have been held in check for decades as we cycled through new antibiotics. If S. mutans is also held in check for the better part of a generation, it would still change the game entirely. Add to this the fact that dental therapists are in the works for 15 different states and counting, to augment the new schools opening each year & increased enrollment at current schools, basic operative could very realistically be in reduced demand.

If you want to be in this profession, do it because you think you will love the work. The money may or may not be there, but you'll still be happy. 👍
Click to expand...
 
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yappy said:
This guy changed his name recently and use to espouse the same rhetoric. He seems to think that most people have alot of other options that dentistry they have not considered or that somehow enjoying dentistry and doing well financially are mutually exclusive.

Wannabee, you've reminded all that dentistry is, and never was, a 100% slam dunk to the upper-middle class. Tell us what job has 100% success and zero risk with all the benefits of being a dentist, please?

None, okay. People will continue to go into dentistry because of the financial incentive and professional autonomy. Many will not love it but they will be thankful they have a good job and make the best of their time outside of their 36-40hr work week.
Click to expand...

I espoused all my rhetoric from this account. Anyway, I never said dentistry was going to stop being a good occupation. I just pointed out the industry is heavily reliant on simple operative, which may soon be non-exclusive to dentists, and is built upon the effects of a single bacterium. I'll even go far as to say (like I have in the past) I don't actually think dental therapists will be a problem. And if my aggressive pharmacy friend above is correct about S. mutans being unaffected on the large scale by a string of (yes, very similar) antibiotics, then I guess I can go along with it.

If I were trying to freak people out, I would go to the predental forum, not the dental forum. I just think everyone should invest heavily (or simply save) early on when the going is nearly guaranteed to be good.
 
People are still going to be non-compliant. This chemical is also not going to be given out for free. So poor people will still not be able to afford basic oral care. Mouthwashes usually don't effectively clear interproximal areas, so Class IIs will still be around. S. mutans is not the main bacteria in root caries, so those will still be around.

Point is, caries will be around. No one knows what the future holds but people will still need dentistry if not for the mere esthetic role. And I imagine that people will have to floss/brush while using this chemical for maximum penetration of food gunk/tooth pellicle. I seriously doubt this is the magic bullet that crest or colgate think it will be.
 
I've seen so many people thrilled about the possibilities of this ... but people just don't realize that if this molecule is designed to be added to drinks and foods as well ... how is it going to effect the bacteria that we have living in our intestines? Is it super-specific or is it going to eradicate every specie similar to mutans streptococci??

I think that's a huge risk when brushing and flossing are both viable options.
 
DMDWANNABEE said:
It doesn't need to be a permanent or remotely perfect fix in order to dramatically reduce demand. Many bacteria have been held in check for decades as we cycled through new antibiotics. If S. mutans is also held in check for the better part of a generation, it would still change the game entirely. Add to this the fact that dental therapists are in the works for 15 different states and counting, to augment the new schools opening each year & increased enrollment at current schools, basic operative could very realistically be in reduced demand.

If you want to be in this profession, do it because you think you will love the work. The money may or may not be there, but you'll still be happy. 👍
Click to expand...


Dental therapists are only allowed in 2 states, in rural areas, and if they expand they will become like PAs. Please read before you post conspiracy theories.
 
yappy said:
Dang man. Don't be so excitable. If you think that a "magic bullet" is going to cure a rampant disease process that already has solutions in place you need to learn a little more about the world. Think back on micro - we're already at pace to RUN OUT of antibiotic solutions for infection. Antibiotic mechanisms as a means to control infection will be dead in a short time (check out the WHO if interested in this subject).

This occured while trying to control the supply and administration of them. Imagine what will happen to highly communicable oral bacteria when people are needlessly treating themselves successfully and unsuccessfully with a medication that exploits S. Mutans some how. We're going to get a MRSA version of S. Mutans. This is why methods like fluoridation, that rely on strengthening the tooth, are more practical. When it comes to bacteria we loose every time.

This is not to say that I'm rooting for disease. Sadly, disease will always occurs - we are mortal being living in a finite universe (little variation of the 2nd thermo law lol). When we are so insecure it makes us seem small. Dentistry is a profession built on more than one bacteria.
Click to expand...

Yappy is probably the smartest predent on here.
 
Hi, sorry for my English:

Considering that the only source of the articles about this molecule seems to be another article on df.cl, which seems based solely on the researchers' word, since there are no published studies I could find, nor informations about the researchers or the mechanism this molecule would work, how do we know this isn't a fake news?

As a dentistry student I would be happy if tooth decay was eradicated, but I probably would have to replan my future so I'd like to know the truth
 
I think it's real, there has always been news about stuff like this, such as UCLA's mouthwash etc. I wouldn't know a reason why they would put up fake news about this.
 
enajmu said:
I think it's real, there has always been news about stuff like this, such as UCLA's mouthwash etc. I wouldn't know a reason why they would put up fake news about this.
Click to expand...

I think we need to see whether the progress mentioned will have any impact on the microbiology of the oral cavity at all.

For those with a microbiology background, how often do bacteria produce a resistance to antibiotics?


Also, we need to know about the composition of this drug. Certainly there is massive media coverage. Yet we have not seen a single scientific journal in regards with this. I also searched the Yale university staff directory. "Jose Cordoba" is not even on the directory.
Plus if the drug causes death of good bacteria in intestine, I certainly believe it would be very bad for the companies to support it. Major law suits would follow.



Also, another thing to consider is whether this drug can penetrate the biofilms? I know those are really difficult to gain entrance into.

Lastly,what procedures within the field of dentistry are not dependant on having a cavity or bacterial based dental decay?

Another application of this drug that I could see would be really beneficial to public would be have this drug prescribed by dentists as a tool to control S. mutans during wait times in procedures to slow the dental decay until repair work is completed. (days long wait times)
This way the revolutionary phase of the bacterium to acquire antibiotic resistance is controlled.


One other thing to know is that how efficient are these drugs? Says they are really efficient to eradicate the disease, I'de say P & G would not be happy to release this, as it would impact their dental care products in the long run.

Does anyone know if P & G produces any dental fillings btw?
What do you think about these ideas?
 
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Parklife said:
Dental therapists are only allowed in 2 states, in rural areas, and if they expand they will become like PAs. Please read before you post conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Yes, Alaska and Minnesota. I wasn't being as clear as I should have been, but I was referring to states with proposed plans to utilize some form of new mid-level dental care provider. Although this usually refers to dental therapists, not always.

I wasn't going for a conspiracy theory feel. Most state plans seem to have dentist supervision mandatory, but this can vary between direct supervision (such as in a dentist's office) or indirect supervision (such as video consulting for many dental therapists with a single dentist). What qualifies as a shortage area also varies from very restrictive, such as is the case in Alaska, to more expansive such as the plans in Kansas.
 
SoulPower said:
People are still going to be non-compliant. This chemical is also not going to be given out for free. So poor people will still not be able to afford basic oral care. Mouthwashes usually don't effectively clear interproximal areas, so Class IIs will still be around. S. mutans is not the main bacteria in root caries, so those will still be around.

Point is, caries will be around. No one knows what the future holds but people will still need dentistry if not for the mere esthetic role. And I imagine that people will have to floss/brush while using this chemical for maximum penetration of food gunk/tooth pellicle. I seriously doubt this is the magic bullet that crest or colgate think it will be.
Click to expand...

Are you a ***** microbacteria have been on this planet longer than us and in our mouth as long as we have as every cm of you in and out. Its your flora, some you need to live and some dont matter

You alone sir will not stop strep mutans from going anywhere. It has to do more with a persons immune function then mouthwash if they have an infective level of an organism

Please stop preaching on the sites
 
There will just be another organism that overflows when one is gone maybe worse

We have coexisted transiently as carriers forever
 
I love how you guys get scientific resarch and pharn facts from msnbc
 
Woland01 said:
Hi, sorry for my English:

Considering that the only source of the articles about this molecule seems to be another article on df.cl, which seems based solely on the researchers' word, since there are no published studies I could find, nor informations about the researchers or the mechanism this molecule would work, how do we know this isn't a fake news?

As a dentistry student I would be happy if tooth decay was eradicated, but I probably would have to replan my future so I'd like to know the truth
Click to expand...

jonmadden said:
I love how you guys get scientific resarch and pharn facts from msnbc
Click to expand...

If either of you would like the primary research, putting in the key terms "UCLA" and "mouthwash" in one of the databases your school provides (I used Scopus) takes you directly to it.
If it helps, here are the ones I looked through:

For general outline- "Targeted Killing of Streptococcus mutans by a Pheromone-Guided "Smart" Antimicrobial Peptide" from Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy

For a few missed points on the mode of action- "Selective membrane disruption: Mode of action of C16G2, a specifically targeted antimicrobial peptide" from Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy

For a study on effectiveness - "Clinical efficacy of a specifically targeted antimicrobial peptide mouth rinse: Targeted elimination of strptococcus mutans and prevention of demineralization" from Caries Research

There could be newer research, I don't know. I looked this stuff up when I was still in school and had access to my university's resources.
 
DMDwannabe if I've learned anything from your posts, it's that you are looking at this with a pessimistic approach. No offence.
 
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DMDWANNABEE said:
If either of you would like the primary research, putting in the key terms "UCLA" and "mouthwash" in one of the databases your school provides (I used Scopus) takes you directly to it.
If it helps, here are the ones I looked through:

For general outline- "Targeted Killing of Streptococcus mutans by a Pheromone-Guided "Smart" Antimicrobial Peptide" from Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy

For a few missed points on the mode of action- "Selective membrane disruption: Mode of action of C16G2, a specifically targeted antimicrobial peptide" from Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy

For a study on effectiveness - "Clinical efficacy of a specifically targeted antimicrobial peptide mouth rinse: Targeted elimination of strptococcus mutans and prevention of demineralization" from Caries Research

There could be newer research, I don't know. I looked this stuff up when I was still in school and had access to my university's resources.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
I wonder how they conduct these studies. Do they let people eat/drink stuff in between doses of the drug? Or like couples who volunteer do they get to kiss each other or people putting their hands in their mouth.

Those things could seriously lower the efficacy of this drug.
 
Gintaman said:
I'm gonna say the same thing I said to the other guy,

If Keep32 can kill S. Mutans, I can be King of England ಠ_ಠ.

Or Emma Watson's boyfriend with a 15 inch dick, but we both know that's not happening.
Click to expand...

This is the funniest thing I heard all day haha... 😀
 
This science-by-press-release was based on 12 subjects! 12 subjects are too few to establish the truth of the implied claim that this drug has no harmful side effects. Science should not be done by press release!

As a child, I ate sugar freely and had many caries, in spite of using a fluoride toothpaste and fluoridated water. But I stopped getting caries many years ago as a young man when I began applying an ordinary sodium fluoride gel every night (and no, I didn't stop eating sugared food). Sodium fluoride has been well researched and its safety (when used carefully) established.
 
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