Keep volunteering? I rather not...

[Omppu27]

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I've read around a little bit to similar threads, but not as specific to my situation...

I'm currently a working EMT and plan on doing so as long as possible. I also have a research assistant position that is located in a hospital and i surprisingly get a good amount of experience in the hospital setting (conducting pt. interviews, keeping track of physician's files, sitting-in on therapy sessions). On top of those two activities, i also do the typical hospital volunteering...

My questions is, do i have to keep doing this volunteering even though i get good pt. contact and hospital setting experience by my EMT work, research work, and shadowing? seeing as how i would love to teach when i'm older (even if i weren't to go into medicine), I would really like to spend my time teaching/tutoring rather than volunteering... My plan was to keep the volunteer gig until classes started back up next fall. This would give me just under 100 hr. voltuneering at the hospital.

Thanks 👍

 

[sliceofbread136]

Well you could drop it, but then again you could keep doing it.

Did that help?

 

[Planet Ocean]

I would have ditched the hospital volunteering a long time ago. I was an ED volunteer and I quickly realized that I was a useless liability. I ditched that for scribing which is way better and spend my time volunteering doing whatever ever I like. As long as you have clinical experience you don't need to be volunteering at the hospital. I would assume it would be more interesting for adcoms to hear about other forms of volunteering instead of the typical ED volunteer work.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Drop it after applying.

 

[Dr. Ducky]

You are getting pt interaction through other opportunities. I would go ahead and do the teaching/tutoring and give yourself some variety.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Drop it after applying.

I guess you could do this, I'm not sure how badly it would look though.

 

[AllDaWEI]

I guess you could do this, I'm not sure how badly it would look though.

I agree. If you are asked about at interview, it will look bad when you tell them you dropped it. Best thing you can do so you DONT have to lie is temporarily stop like notbobtrustme said after applying, and restart when you interview. Then when you hear back, quit!

 

[notbobtrustme]

I guess you could do this, I'm not sure how badly it would look though.

Only looks bad if they check. Think about it for a second. Even after screening, a typical med school has several thousand applications to check. The only sensible thing I see is schools checking interview invitees on their ECs and even then, you are looking at a massive workload with anywhere from 500 to 1000 students with an average of 7-10 ECs. And finally, this is all heresay from SDN, not actually confirmed by an adcom as far as I know.

 

[DryHopped]

I stopped hospital volunteering after I finished my post-bacc. I had about 110 hrs, the only activities I was partaking in during the interview season was a tutoring job (33 hrs a week) and volunteer work at a local homeless shelter (5 hrs a week). I was not asked specifically about why I wasn't volunteering in a clinical setting at any of my interviews. I was accepted to two DO schools and one MD school.

 

[AllDaWEI]

I stopped hospital volunteering after I finished my post-bacc. I had about 110 hrs, the only activities I was partaking in during the interview season was a tutoring job (33 hrs a week) and volunteer work at a local homeless shelter (5 hrs a week). I was not asked specifically about why I wasn't volunteering in a clinical setting at any of my interviews. I was accepted to two DO schools and one MD school.

You were still volunteering in some way or another. What if the OP simply wants to stop, assuming they want to do it at some other point in their lives?

 

[AllDaWEI]

Only looks bad if they check. Think about it for a second. Even after screening, a typical med school has several thousand applications to check. The only sensible thing I see is schools checking interview invitees on their ECs and even then, you are looking at a massive workload with anywhere from 500 to 1000 students with an average of 7-10 ECs. And finally, this is all heresay from SDN, not actually confirmed by an adcom as far as I know.

You are still running the risk of being that 1:1000, and consequences can be severe! As much as I hate the facade of volunteering for medical school, the consequences of outright lying are too great. If the OP hates it that much, they can even go as far as to quit after applying (listed as "present" activity, no red flag), and at the interview make something up like he or she is looking to go to different hospital.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Don't make your app look like a completed checklist. Otherwise do whatever is fun and convenient.

 

[pkwraith]

It seems to me that you would be best served doing volunteering as a teacher/tutor.

Volunteering activity does not have to be clinical, and you have a plethora of clinical experience on your plate. You should be doing what you enjoy in your volunteering time, which you seem to place an emphasis on didactic role.

 

[Dr. Ducky]

It seems to me that you would be best served doing volunteering as a teacher/tutor.

Volunteering activity does not have to be clinical, and you have a plethora of clinical experience on your plate. You should be doing what you enjoy in your volunteering time, which you seem to place an emphasis on didactic role.

^This

 

[Alejandro]

Personally, I would volunteer until you have about 100 hrs in, just to show that you can commit to it. That being said, if you're planning on being an EMT/researcher/shadow for a long period of time (2+ yrs), then i think your small stint in volunteering won't matter, even if you quit early. Ultimately though, what you really want to do, is focus on your reflections of the experiences gained-that is what will make your activities standout on your app.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Don't make your app look like a completed checklist. Otherwise do whatever is fun and convenient.

oh please, not this garbage again. A lot of us are under time constraints, work constraints and school constraints. I'd love to volunteer at a strip club as a social worker to an underserved population, but the hours just don't work for me.

There's a reason there's a checklist and that reason is because it frigging works most of the time. Not everyone can search for little brown babies to serve in the inner cities or whatever else floats your boat.

You are still running the risk of being that 1:1000, and consequences can be severe! As much as I hate the facade of volunteering for medical school, the consequences of outright lying are too great. If the OP hates it that much, they can even go as far as to quit after applying (listed as "present" activity, no red flag), and at the interview make something up like he or she is looking to go to different hospital.

True 🙁

However, I still think it's an extraordinarily long shot that someone would get called out on their ECs.

 

[SpecterGT260]

That isnt what I said to do. 🙄 and nothing I suggested is hindered by time constraints. In fact, EVERYTHING I suggested favors people with time constraints.

 

[AllDaWEI]

That isnt what I said to do. 🙄 and nothing I suggested is hindered by time constraints. In fact, EVERYTHING I suggested favors people with time constraints.

Unfortunately what is "fun and convenient" is udually not things that help your application forbmedical school. When I was pre-med, l liked seeing friends and gaming. Not too helpful on app, right?

Any thread like this reeks of box-checker pre-med, not that there is problem with being one. If the OP actually enjoyed experience and wanted to be there willingly (in theory), then this and similar threads would not exist.

OP is right that their situation is somewhat uniwue. If they apply this coming cycle, then it would be easy to manipulate experience to still look good for what it is, without any "red flags".

 

[SpecterGT260]

Wow. Lack of imagination in you people.

The gaming example misses the mark.... Quite badly.

I was not accepted my first round because I lacked volunteer experience. I was told by my #1 adcom that I needed more experiences and needed to show continuity I.e. no box checking. Fun is a relative term. Yes, there are things that are more fun than others, but there are always opportunities for you that don't involve "brown babies" and grandeur if one type of experience really sucks.
I volunteered in the ER - which can be competitive in some places so not available to everyone.
I contacted the VA and drove a van for them to shuttle patients
Most major hospitals have volunteer centers with all sorts of little things to do from peds area cleanup to library cart shenanigans....
I listed flood relief
Soup kitchens
Clothing drives
Call churches, hospitals, community centers, shelters, whatever.

The issue here is you seemed to capitalize on the word "fun" when the emphasis was on convenient (I.e. fitting in your oh so busy pre med schedule) and that quality (continuity)> quantity. Recurring activities are a big deal to adcoms and go a long way to making you look less like a box checker. Adwei, you however seem to just bitch about volunteering in general. So I guess I understand how you thought that point was relevant....

 

[circulus vitios]

Don't make your app look like a completed checklist. Otherwise do whatever is fun and convenient.

Why do people keep saying this? IT IS A CHECKLIST.

 

[circulus vitios]

I was told by my #1 adcom that I needed more experiences and needed to show continuity I.e. no box checking.

Translation: you didn't fully check the box.

 

[AllDaWEI]

Why do people keep saying this? IT IS A CHECKLIST.

👍

ADCOMs baffle me. Do they honestly think most applicants would have been doing these ECs had they not been known "requirement"? Why do they hate "box-checkers" so much when the pre-meds know from day one that these activities are needed.

It sucks for the OP that if they quit now it can look "bad", even though he or she already devoted nearly ONE HUNDRED hours in the ER (oh I'm sorry, I guess so many hours just noy impressive and make OP look very selfish!). The AMCAS leaves some wiggle room for being played, so it is possible to still look "good" (then again I don't think volunteering makes you look good, I think lacking it just makes you look like you are walking around with pants pulled down in ADCOM eyes).

 

[notbobtrustme]

I contacted the VA and drove a van for them to shuttle patients
Most major hospitals have volunteer centers with all sorts of little things to do from peds area cleanup to library cart shenanigans....
I listed flood relief
Soup kitchens
Clothing drives
Call churches, hospitals, community centers, shelters, whatever.

Those are all checklist activities lol. Back when I was a true pre-med (eg undergraduate studies) more than 60% of the kids would do the exact same crap. Ladling soup and folding used clothes are not unique activities. They are the same bull**** pre-med activities that float around on this website.

The only thing on that entire list that is remotely "unique" is flood relief. And not everyone can live in a major disaster areas and not every year has a major flood that warrants volunteering. Good on you for doing your part, but this is in no way a viable alternative to ER volunteering.


What pre-meds have done is changed how adcoms view their ECs. Box-checking implies that you get in, do your work then get out. Nowadays, people like AlldaWei, among others, give the advice not to quit volunteering assignments so that you don't look like a box checker. That way, someone volunteering at the ER doesn't look like a box checker because he/she is still engaging in that activity while applying. Therefore, this isn't a box-check activity because you haven't gotten out yet. Pre-meds have just gotten smarter about bull****ting, it doesn't change the fact that volunteering is bull**** from the very beginning.

 

[SpecterGT260]

👍

ADCOMs baffle me. Do they honestly think most applicants would have been doing these ECs had they not been known "requirement"? Why do they hate "box-checkers" so much when the pre-meds know from day one that these activities are needed.

It sucks for the OP that if they quit now it can look "bad", even though he or she already devoted nearly ONE HUNDRED hours in the ER (oh I'm sorry, I guess so many hours just noy impressive and make OP look very selfish!). The AMCAS leaves some wiggle room for being played, so it is possible to still look "good" (then again I don't think volunteering makes you look good, I think lacking it just makes you look like you are walking around with pants pulled down in ADCOM eyes).

you kids are hopeless 🙄
I said don't make it "look like". no, i wouldnt have volunteered if it wasnt an unwritten requirement. That isnt what was being discussed or was it at all the point. Alldawei, you insist on turning all of these threads into a philosophical debate on whether or not they should be looking at it. That is a different discussion.

The OP asked if he/she should drop the volunteering because he can get pt contact with EMT work. I would advise against it. A single continuing and recurring volunteer experience is worth 10 "been there, done that" sort of gigs.

circulus - no.. just... no... this thread is about appealing to the adcoms, not about what should be/could be/would be. Yes. it is a checklist. This has nothing to do with my post. Do not make it obvious you are checking boxes. If you want to disregard my input which comes directly from the director of admissions at my school, then be my guest. anyone who wants to improve their odds at getting into medical school - hide the box checking as best as possible and attempt to make it look natural. that is all I said. Any counterpoints above are addressing inappropriate extensions and tangents to that point.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Those are all checklist activities lol. Back when I was a true pre-med (eg undergraduate studies) more than 60% of the kids would do the exact same crap. Ladling soup and folding used clothes are not unique activities. They are the same bull**** pre-med activities that float around on this website.

The only thing on that entire list that is remotely "unique" is flood relief. And not everyone can live in a major disaster areas and not every year has a major flood that warrants volunteering. Good on you for doing your part, but this is in no way a viable alternative to ER volunteering.

you are still missing the point. read my last post.

the thing (and the only thing) I am warning against is to go about volunteering as such:
Pt contact - check - stop activity
non-clinical - check - stop activity
underserved community - check - stop activity.

the OP asked if s/he should stop volunteering. If it is too much of a hassle then sure, stop it. But recurrence of 1 activity is much more valuable than a list of things you did 1 time in order to get each box checked.
your points are fine... they simply are not addressing anything I was talking about 😕. you need to learn to pay attention to what was written or your professors are going to have a heyday with you if you get into medical school

tl;dr I didnt say "dont box check", I said "dont make it look like you are box checking". i hope you understand the difference.

 

[AllDaWEI]

you are still missing the point. read my last post.

the thing (and the only thing) I am warning against is to go about volunteering as such:
Pt contact - check - stop activity
non-clinical - check - stop activity
underserved community - check - stop activity.

the OP asked if s/he should stop volunteering. If it is too much of a hassle then sure, stop it. But recurrence of 1 activity is much more valuable than a list of things you did 1 time in order to get each box checked.
your points are fine... they simply are not addressing anything I was talking about 😕. you need to learn to pay attention to what was written or your professors are going to have a heyday with you if you get into medical school

tl;dr I didnt say "dont box check", I said "dont make it look like you are box checking". i hope you understand the difference.

Well that description of box-checking makes sense. Then based on what everyone said, the OP should not discontinue activity since it will look like box-checking. This will likely hurt application. The OP can manipulate the experience within AMCAS guidelines to still look like thry are doing it by either stopping immediately after filling out application and restartind during interviews, or never restarting and saying they are looking for a new experience.

SDN members may say unethical, but you are not directly lying on AMCAS or at your interview. Good luck OP!

 

[popopopop]

Quit the hospital volunteer if you don't think it's fulfilling. I volunteered 3x at my hospital and quit because I felt the same way you do. I was already volunteering at a refugee assistance program and wanted to bolster up the CV with a second gig. I rationalized that since I wasn't happy, I rather focus on one volunteer job and keep my gpa up (because as you know mcat/gpa are bigger factors). I was happy I found my volunteer job. My parents came from similar backgrounds, so it was pretty humbling. The case managers there really truly need help, you get to do so much there! I have maybe under 100 hours right now, but wouldn't trade it for 1000 E.D. hours.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Well that description of box-checking makes sense. Then based on what everyone said, the OP should not discontinue activity since it will look like box-checking. This will likely hurt application. The OP can manipulate the experience within AMCAS guidelines to still look like thry are doing it by either stopping immediately after filling out application and restartind during interviews, or never restarting and saying they are looking for a new experience.

SDN members may say unethical, but you are not directly lying on AMCAS or at your interview. Good luck OP!

see, now we agree. The SDN pre-med ideals of "ethics" are well... idealistic. There is nothing wrong with selling yourself and projecting the good while downplaying the bad. They are not looking for a n applicant who comes out and outlines every dirty secret they have in the name of ethics. That is just weird and the humans on the adcom will be negatively affected by it. also I dont really believe that all of the pre-meds who shout their ideals are really so idealistic in real life. I would bet every one of them has exaggerated something on their app to a degree.

the advice is simply this: you signed up for this so play the effing game!

if you dont play it well, have fun in pharmacy school

 

[circulus vitios]

👍

ADCOMs baffle me. Do they honestly think most applicants would have been doing these ECs had they not been known "requirement"? Why do they hate "box-checkers" so much when the pre-meds know from day one that these activities are needed.

It sucks for the OP that if they quit now it can look "bad", even though he or she already devoted nearly ONE HUNDRED hours in the ER (oh I'm sorry, I guess so many hours just noy impressive and make OP look very selfish!). The AMCAS leaves some wiggle room for being played, so it is possible to still look "good" (then again I don't think volunteering makes you look good, I think lacking it just makes you look like you are walking around with pants pulled down in ADCOM eyes).

"Why was I rejected?"
"Because you lacked _____. But we hate box-checkers!"

 

[circulus vitios]

you kids are hopeless 🙄
I said don't make it "look like". no, i wouldnt have volunteered if it wasnt an unwritten requirement.
...
hide the box checking as best as possible and attempt to make it look natural.

 

[AllDaWEI]

"Why was I rejected?"
"Because you lacked _____. But we hate box-checkers!"

LOLZ! The ADCOMs make absolutely no sense here.

This remind me of episode of Family Guy where Peter became an executive and then had a robot to suck up to him after he parked his car. He kept making statements about himself and robot exploded! Sorry I can't find a video but it reminds me of this situation.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Okay I'm looking for advice on my activities, and I'm worried about checking boxes. Can anyone give me input on these?

-drummer for university show choir and women's glee (3 years)
-drummer/guitarist for several church bands (PRN)
-teach guitar and drums to kids at a military base (15 months and counting)
-pre-professional organization (4 years)
-men's crew (1 semester)
-tennis club (2 semesters)
-USTA tennis 4.0, on occasion
-CNA at clinic for uninsured (7 months and counting)
-shadow peds, IM, EM, GS (50 hours total over the past 5 months)
-campus newspaper deliver (6 months)
-Subway (3 months)
-construction labor (summers PRN)
-working on undergrad degree in an earth science (w/ minor in a life science) and a grad degree in a social science

Weak on volunteering unless the CNA or teaching of kids on the base was volunteering. No research. You should be fine with decent stats and volunteering, assuming you have none.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Thank you for your reply mmmcdowe.

-The CNA thing is indeed volunteering. Also, I forgot to put down four "alternative breaks" for natural disaster relief. My total volunteer hours will be ~185 when I apply. I will boost that to 250-300 by interview time.

==>Question: I am leading a group of students on a service trip (just a day trip, so nothing epic) to a nearby town to help out with tornado cleanup. Do the hours I spend planning this trip count as volunteer hours?

-I have only done research for my social science grad degree. I applied for a lab assistant job for the summer, to hopefully get my foot in the door for future research and to have a meaningful update for schools.

Thanks again.

Yes, that would count and it may make a nice story for an essay even if the hours themselves are miniscule. Don't feel obligated to list everything you did throughout college. I certainly didn't, gave me some additional new material to pull out as needed.

 

[Omppu27]

Hmmm... not sure where anyone got the idea that i was applying this cycle! haha i'm only in my second year.

Anyway, i think i'm going to keep the volunteer spot until classes start in fall. Then i'm hoping to be a TA along with the psych research and EMT job. Thanks for all the input!